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Top Hamas Military leader killed - Israel/Hamas on the brink of War??

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Israel and Hamas are already at war.

    The rockets being fired over the past few months have given the Israeli govt an excuse to retaliate in a pre-election populist operation into Gaza timed also as Syria would be at its weakest since June 1967.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Israel and Hamas are already at war.

    The rockets being fired over the past few months have given the Israeli govt an excuse to retaliate in a pre-election operation into Gaza.

    I know there has been rockets being fired over the past few months but do you think this will develop into a full scale war? the Israelis are targeting the leadership of Hamas and say they will continue to do so it can only really go in one direction I would think and thats all out war??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    There will be no war, Gaza is a Prison and Isreal controls everything about it, Hamas never lay a glove on them before they are slapped down.

    To have a war both side have to think they have a chance, in this case it will be a rout just like Cast Lead,

    Crazy religions again,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    WakeUp wrote: »
    I know there has been rockets being fired over the past few months but do you think this will develop into a full scale war? the Israelis are targeting the leadership of Hamas and say they will continue to do so it can only really go in one direction I would think and thats all out war??
    An incursion operation. Quick shot at Gaza for targets such as today's then back out again, shutting up shop.
    For the reasons I gave. Weaker Syria and upcoming populism requirements. Iran's stretch into the area also weaker as now limited to Hizbullah. Also, given that Hamas leadership have bolted from Syria, they are now more traceable.

    I don't know what you mean by full-scale war though. Hizbullah? Egypt? Iran? Russia and US poking using their proxies against each other in region in augmented fashion?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    WakeUp wrote: »
    I know there has been rockets being fired over the past few months but do you think this will develop into a full scale war? the Israelis are targeting the leadership of Hamas and say they will continue to do so it can only really go in one direction I would think and thats all out war??

    Hamas fired over 100 rockets last week, this is retaliation for that. Why would Israel bother with a costly war when they can pick off Hamas leaders like this

    Being made Hamas military chief must be like being asked to dig your own grave, there's probably a meeting going on in Gaza atm with a bunch of guys trying not to pick the short straw.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,509 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Could be preparation by the Israel to go to war with Iran. They need to stop Hamas using their long rang bombs on the aftermath of bombing of Iran hence doing it now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Headshot wrote: »
    Could be preparation by the Israel to go to war with Iran. They need to stop Hamas using their long rang bombs on the aftermath of bombing of Iran hence doing it now
    Which long-range bombs are there in Gaza?
    This has nothing to do with a war on Iran. They took out an enemy leader purely due to the fact that Iran have less influence in any retaliation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭hyperborean


    Headshot wrote: »
    Could be preparation by the Israel to go to war with Iran. They need to stop Hamas using their long rang bombs on the aftermath of bombing of Iran hence doing it now

    No way will Isreal take a shot at Iran, to many variables, it would make Iraq and afganistan look like panama.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,509 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Which long-range bombs are there in Gaza?
    This has nothing to do with a war on Iran. They took out an enemy leader purely due to the fact that Iran have less influence in any retaliation.

    Fajr-5 if you believe sky news


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Might go in and massacre civilians again and leave, back to the worlds largest open prison status quo.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    Israel has been bombarded particularly heavily in recent months- do people seriously think that Israel should sit back and twiddle their thumbs while their entire southern population is being continually fired upon and in a state of fear, sitting in bomb shelters on an almost daily basis? Ffs- any other country and there would be complete outrage. Good riddance to the terrorist they killed- may it be a warning to the rest of the cowards targeting innocent civilians.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    WakeUp wrote: »
    Israel killed their most "wanted terrorist" today in a missile strike. Ahmed Ja'abari head of the Hamas armed wing was smoked as he and another passenger drove a car somewhere in the Gaza strip.

    The Israelis are saying this is just the begining with more to follow. Hamas has said they have opened up the "gates of hell" by killing him.

    Israel must surely know and taken into consideration the likelyhood of retaliation for this killing are they prepared for a full scale ground invasion as happend with operation Cast lead? is this the first shot across the bow in a new war in that part of the world? only time will tell.
    l

    ...election time again, tbh. Describing an incursion into gaza as a war is a bit much, tbh. Its tanks, jets and choppers against aks (~not counting the other technological advantages).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Siuin wrote: »
    Israel has been bombarded particularly heavily in recent months- do people seriously think that Israel should sit back and twiddle their thumbs while their entire southern population is being continually fired upon and in a state of fear, sitting in bomb shelters on an almost daily basis? Ffs- any other country and there would be complete outrage. Good riddance to the terrorist they killed- may it be a warning to the rest of the cowards targeting innocent civilians.
    Yeah, the 11 month old baby they killed was a right nasty piece of work. Why are rockets being fired? Becuase of the brutal zionist imposed status quo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    GRMA wrote: »
    Yeah, the 11 month old baby they killed was a right nasty piece of work. Why are rockets being fired? Becuase of the brutal zionist imposed status quo.
    And you think Israeli lives are worth less??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    GRMA wrote: »
    Yeah, the 11 month old baby they killed was a right nasty piece of work. Why are rockets being fired? Becuase of the brutal zionist imposed status quo.
    So you're justifying rocking innocent civilians now?
    Never fails to surprise me... :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Siuin wrote: »
    So you're justifying rocking innocent civilians now?
    Never fails to surprise me... :rolleyes:
    No.

    Is the other poster justifying this?

    <snip>

    MOD NOTE: Per the charter, do not post pictures of bombing victims in threads. If you think they add to the point you are trying to make, provide a link with a warning.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59 ✭✭flogging a dead horse


    Hamas and their 'great' arsenal of poxy katusha rockets that land aimlessly into southern Israel. Hamas are a joke and with democratic Egypt they should sue for peace and take what they get!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    GRMA wrote: »
    No.

    Is the other poster justifying this?

    I think it's unfortunate things like that happen. One would wonder what the mindset of terrorists are when they fire rockets from heavily built up civilian areas.

    Yet you tell us that rockets are being fired because of the 'brutal zionist imposed status quo' - do elaborate. Do you think it's fair that a huge population of innocent civilians should suffer? Also, are you condemning Egypt's role in enforcing the blockade?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    The moment of the strike on Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    Good riddance.
    No doubt enjoying his 72 virgins as we speak :p


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭KenSwee


    And you think Israeli lives are worth less??

    That's not the point. They are murderers. Those innocent children or adults killed and injured were not terrorists. If you or I killed somebody, we would have to answer for it, regardless of what our reasons were for our action. They are murderers, plain and simple.

    Please explain to me why nobody in the state of Israel is responsible for the deaths of innocent people that occurred during this attack?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭KenSwee


    GRMA wrote: »
    No.

    Is the other poster justifying this?

    <mod snip>

    Jesus wept. For me it's simple, when children die, that's it, no matter what the background is or who's side it's on. No "legitimate" nation should be responsible for an actions like this.

    Those pilots have committed a war crime either way today. Each side is as bad as the other but Israel are supposed to be the side who are democratic. Their actions caused this poor child's fate.

    There is always another way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    KenSwee wrote: »
    That's not the point. They are murderers.
    And what are Hamas? 'Freedom Fighters'? 'Martyrs'? These men were given a task of taking down one of the terrorists responsible for the incessant rocket attacks on Israeli citizens. The difference between the IDF's targetting of the terrorist and the actions of Hamas is that the IDF conducted a focused attack and did not have the intention of killing any innocent civilians. In contrast, Hamas propells rockets towards Israel, often at times when they know kids will be on their way to or from school with the intention of murdering civilians. It is always tragic when anyone gets caught in the crossfire, but I really don't see how anyone could put the IDF's actions on par with those of Hamas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    KenSwee wrote: »
    Jesus wept. For me it's simple, when children die, that's it, no matter what the background is or who's side it's on. No "legitimate" nation should be responsible for an actions like this.

    Those pilots have committed a war crime either way today. Each side is as bad as the other but Israel are supposed to be the side who are democratic. Their actions caused this poor child's fate.

    There is always another way.

    As awful and cold as it sounds but innocents will always be killed in war, but nations can minimize those deaths and insurgents, terrorists, freedom fighters (call them what you will) have a part to play in this in so far as not using civilian population centers to launch attacks from and hide in.

    In the event of a large scale military engagement the Israeli's could do it on the cheap and carpet bomb Gaza and wipe the place off the face of the earth if you really believe thats their aim.. But instead they use guided munitions and surgical strikes against their enemy targets to minimize civilian casualties.

    There is a price to attacking any nation, and in particular Israel and that price is often very bloody and costly in terms of human life.. Hamas harassed Israel something awful in the last number of months with almost daily rocket attacks, they (Hamas) know the price they'll pay so if they think they can afford it let them shut up about it and get on with their business when Israel strikes back ~ or is it a one way war they want?.

    But regardless of all that I think everyone will agree that innocent lives lost is a terrible price to have to pay, its unavoidable but can be minimized.

    I doubt there's ever been a war/battle whereby innocents were not killed, I've never witnessed one yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭KenSwee


    Siuin wrote: »
    And what are Hamas? 'Freedom Fighters'? 'Martyrs'? These men were given a task of taking down one of the terrorists responsible for the incessant rocket attacks on Israeli citizens. The difference between the IDF's targetting of the terrorist and the actions of Hamas is that the IDF conducted a focused attack and did not have the intention of killing any innocent civilians. In contrast, Hamas propells rockets towards Israel, often at times when they know kids will be on their way to or from school with the intention of murdering civilians. It is always tragic when anyone gets caught in the crossfire, but I really don't see how anyone could put the IDF's actions on par with those of Hamas.

    Hamas are a bunch of murderers as well but Israel are supposed to be a legitimate government. They should be acting above the level of attacks such as this.

    Focused attack my arse. if that was their intention, then they failed. Just look at the result.

    On countless occasions, they have committed acts that would be defined as rouge but because they are who they are and live in the shadow of the USA, they walk away every time.

    Murders of innocent bystanders.
    Illegal hoarding of weapons.
    Kidnapping.
    Invasion of sovereign states.

    Their list is endless.

    They are murderers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭KenSwee


    As awful and cold as it sounds but innocents will always be killed in war, but nations can minimize those deaths and insurgents, terrorists, freedom fighters (call them what you will) have a part to play in this in so far as not using civilian population centers to launch attacks from and hide in.

    In the event of a large scale military engagement the Israeli's could do it on the cheap and carpet bomb Gaza and wipe the place off the face of the earth if you really believe thats their aim.. But instead they use guided munitions and surgical strikes against their enemy targets to minimize civilian casualties.

    There is a price to attacking any nation, and in particular Israel and that price is often very bloody and costly in terms of human life.. Hamas harassed Israel something awful in the last number of months with almost daily rocket attacks, they (Hamas) know the price they'll pay so if they think they can afford it let them shut up about it and get on with their business when Israel strikes back ~ or is it a one way war they want?.

    But regardless of all that I think everyone will agree that innocent lives lost is a terrible price to have to pay, its unavoidable but can be minimized.

    I doubt there's ever been a war/battle whereby innocents were not killed, I've never witnessed one yet.

    But the whole issue is not being resolved in the correct way.
    We all allow the government of Israel to commit terrible acts of terrorism and illegal actions since it's establishment as a nation.

    We also allow them to play in our sporting events which gives them no incentive to try and get on with their neighbors.

    FFS, they are all the bloody same people yet because of stupid religion and a ridiculous commitment to being hard nosed idiots, the result is always the bloody same.

    Of course there is always unavoidable issues where innocent people are killed but in this case, every time it happens, nobody learns, especially Israel. You say there is a price, well, those poor children shouldn't have to pay for it. And the guided strikes are never so guided. That is a undeniable fact. Take a look at what the Israeli government have been involved in over the last 40 years and also, don't forget that no matter what they try to say, they were responsible for the deaths of over 300 hundred Palestinian children in 2008 and 2009. Don't be fooled by what you may hear about Mossad. They have as much blood on their hands as any terrorist group, much of it innocent blood. Take a look at the attack on the Sands Hotel in Beirut in 1973, codenamed Operation Spring of Youth. This attack, a revenge killing for the Munich attack in 1972, resulted in innocent bystanders being murdered in an attempt to carry out a killing of three Palestinian Liberation Organisation members. One of the Mossad agents in that attack was the future Prime Minister of Israel, Ehud Barak! Incredibly, some of these thugs were decorated afterwards. In spite of the fact that a considerable number of innocent people were killed. Also, in an act of revenge for the Munich attack, another innocent man, Ahmed Bouchiki, was murdered by Mossad after he was mistakenly identified as a Palestinian terrorist. He was shot in front of his pregnant wife while leaving a cinema in Lillyhammer, Norway. Six agents were arrested, but five received very short prison terms. Israel actually tried to pay off Bouchiki's wife, even though they never had the balls to admit they carried out the crime! Mossad's speciality is sneaking around the world committing acts of terror and assassinations in the name of the Israeli state and democracy. I'm not sure what type of democracy they have, but it's not my type. And you might say that all these acts could be called unfortunate, or even collateral damage, if you were that cynical, but I'd love to hear your view if it happened to one of your family members.

    Here we have Hamas, a crazy bunch of idiots who use children as human shields. Well, there's nothing you can do to convince ignorant gits like that about peace and reconciliation. The only way to get rid of them is to make them redundant and unimportant. Use their own people against them by giving the Palestinian on the street (or what's left of it) what he wants: his own fully independent state with linking borders and an open city policy on Jerusalem. If you give that, then the likes of Hamas have no reason for being around. If they continue to be trouble, then you have proper justification to defend yourself by permanently knocking the stuffing out of them.

    Both the Palestinians and the Israelis believe they were given their land by God!Holy ****, how do you work with that??The simple answer is that you can't, so you have to force both of them to do the right thing.
    See, I think it's really simple, and forgive me for putting it this way, but to be honest, I don't care because it's right!
    When one child, never mind 400, gets killed, no matter what the reason, whatever the f**k you are doing must stop there and now.

    The assholes in Tel Aviv are complaining about their civilians being killed by home made pieces of s**t flying into their back gardens, but they made that choice to stick their fat asses there in the first place. The land that they have their swimming pools on is not theirs. It was mostly taken in by force and never handed back. But the children that died in Gaza over the last day had no choice. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some were there because their parents or families had nowhere else to go. We say that Israel is a democratic, civilised nation which, according to them, is defending its right to exist. Well, if my head Minister made that statement and then went on to be responsible for the deaths of over 400 hundred kids, the least he would have to worry about is his fecking vote from me.

    You can't justify hundreds of dead children in the name of democracy and freedom. It's as simple as that. I couldn't care less about the crazy Hamas 'freedom fighters' running around with home-made S**trockets in their back pockets. Feck them, they deserve to get the asses blown to hell. But what I won't allow myself to accept is that a nation that stands beside my country in all of the major sporting tournaments and competitions like the European Championship in soccer and the Eurovision Song contest can be accepted after the horrendous acts of both terrorism and war crimes against mainly helpless people and claim it's all for democracy.
    Israel gets away with it all because we are meant to feel sorry about them. But we don't feel sorry about Poland who suffered equally in the holocaust. Nah, screw that, sure they only lost 1 million Poles! But we all know the bully always gets his turn and Israel is allowing Hamas to breed another 6 million of theses crazy feckers who will have no problem walking into a suicide. That's all they will have managed to achieve by its defensive offensive. When I hear the Israeli ambassador on my local radio station saying that on behalf of Israel that he "deeply regrets" the death of children, I have to laugh, you don't convince me mate, and if you gave that answer to my face I'd punch your lights out. They should all know better and hang their heads in shame. I have no problem telling an Israeli citizen that.

    This was an act that if carried out by anybody else would have been considered terrorism.

    They just keep getting away with every single time.
    Murder of innocents
    Kidnapping
    Illegal storage of WMD
    Illegal acts of invasion

    No other country would getting away with it every single time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    KenSwee wrote: »
    Hamas are a bunch of murderers as well but Israel are supposed to be a legitimate government. They should be acting above the level of attacks such as this.

    Focused attack my arse. if that was their intention, then they failed. Just look at the result.

    On countless occasions, they have committed acts that would be defined as rouge but because they are who they are and live in the shadow of the USA, they walk away every time.

    Murders of innocent bystanders.
    Illegal hoarding of weapons.
    Kidnapping.
    Invasion of sovereign states.

    Their list is endless.

    They are murderers.

    Some food for thought (for you).



    **edit**

    Sorry Ken I replied to you before I'd seen your reply to me.

    You're fairly naive when it comes to war, and I'm not trying to belittle you when I say that. But if you'll forgive me I won't debate too many of your points made (I've done it in a thousand other threads on the same subject).

    I don't think anyone here would advocate war, and sure we'd all rather avoid conflict. But Whats a country to do when its constantly attacked, on a daily basis Israel is attacked from inside Gaza ~ this is beyond dispute, no one can honestly deny that.

    As I said earlier, there's a price to pay for attacking any nation and a terrorist leader paid that price (with his life) today ~ unfortunately as it all too often happens innocents were also killed.

    I'm off to bed now, hope you have a good night & and if you pray (I don't) when lets pray for peace.. goodnight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Siuin wrote: »
    I think it's unfortunate things like that happen.

    I think its a lot more than unfortunate, maybe a tragedy for everyone involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭KenSwee


    Some food for thought (for you).



    **edit**

    Sorry Ken I replied to you before I'd seen your reply to me.

    You're fairly naive when it comes to war, and I'm not trying to belittle you when I say that. But if you'll forgive me I won't debate too many of your points made (I've done it in a thousand other threads on the same subject).

    I don't think anyone here would advocate war, and sure we'd all rather avoid conflict. But Whats a country to do when its constantly attacked, on a daily basis Israel is attacked from inside Gaza ~ this is beyond dispute, no one can honestly deny that.

    As I said earlier, there's a price to pay for attacking any nation and a terrorist leader paid that price (with his life) today ~ unfortunately as it all too often happens innocents were also killed.

    I'm off to bed now, hope you have a good night & and if you pray (I don't) when lets pray for peace.. goodnight.


    First off, I am not 'naive ' when it comes to war. Don't make that assumption; you don't know me at all and have no knowledge of where I have been or what my experiences are. I don't agree with your opinion but I respect your level of knowledge on the subject.

    Secondly I am not a supporter of Hamas or any idiotic group of its kind. However I do believe that if a nation illegally enters and takes land, then yes, there is a price to pay, and Israel are currently paying that price.

    There is no justification for the acts that the Israeli government carries out.

    Some food for thought regarding your video.
    Testimony from a general of a nation who were part of a invasion force who entered Iraq on false pretenses is not a good start by the way. And if what he claims is true, then it is one of a very small amount of times where the IDF behaved with some kind of conviction.

    Did the IDF do everything possible in this situation? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭donfers


    And you think Israeli lives are worth less??


    hmmm......the issue of worth of lives is an interesting one when you look at the israeli -palestinian conflict

    am i right in saying that there have something like 1,000 palestinian deaths for every Israeli one

    so whatever about our spiritual notions of how sacred life is it seems that in this conflict at least that an Israeli life is worth 1,000 Palestinian lives

    this, i think, is one of the key reasons why there is a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian cause all around the world and it's not about anti-semitism at all

    people just don't like seeing lots of people being massacred

    and despite all the spin and protestations and propoganda and excuses there is no doubt that many many innocent civilians have been massacred, a lot lot lot more on the Palestinian side

    civilised countries should do everything possible to avoid doing just that


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