S&W M&P22 ?

dc99

Hi,
New to forum and shooting..
Me and a pal are looking to get into target shooting (Pistols), Im in research mode and have got a fair bit of info on licensing, joining club, insurance etc.

I'm also looking at what pistol to get (.22lr is the only option for me due to restricted lists etc etc.).
Forgive me if I'm out of order asking any of these questions, and let me know if I am (so I don't make the same mistake again...).

I've looked at the Sig Mosquito, Walther p22, and both seem to get thumbs down (though the sig seems to be coming back with the use of good ammo etc).
I have also been looking at the Smith & Wesson M&P22 - this seems to get some good reviews.

So question time, - are the chances good for getting a licence for this firearm?
what kind of cost could I be looking at for it (or indeed the other two - price range?).

Can't see any indication of price for Ireland for these. I would like to know what I'm looking at before I approach a dealer.

lastly has anyone got one of these and are they any good in their oppinion?

Thanks in advance

juice1304

If it is being imported from america you need to pay for paperwork stateside, $250 for an export licence, tax when it arrives here and whatever the dealer wants here. It would take a couple of months to get. If you will get the licence or not is up to your local super, It not being on the list and presumably it being your first, You would be better talking to him before you go out spending all the money. "Some" prefer you to have another licnece for a long arm [shotgun/rifle] first to see how you go. You will also need a safe and range fees would be 300-350 a year and 50 for your insurance and there may be a E100 joining fee in the midlands it is 300.

Cass

dc99 wrote: »

I've looked at the Sig Mosquito, Walther p22, and both seem to get thumbs down (though the sig seems to be coming back with the use of good ammo etc).

Everyone, and i mean everyone i know that bought a Sig Mosquite (even when they could get it to work somewhat consistently) eventually got fed up of it, and sold it on.

There is a reason most everyone is telling you to stay away.

So question time, - are the chances good for getting a licence for this firearm?

Once the magazine is restricted to hold no more than 5 rounds (to make it an unrestricted firearm) then it should be processed on it's merits. However the end result is up to the Super.

The "list" is not finite, but is strongly followed. You will need to make a case why this one is needed/wanted over others.

what kind of cost could I be looking at for it (or indeed the other two - price range?).

Hard to tell. Never seen anyone with one so not fit to give a precise price. However depending on dealer, source, etc you can look from dollar price in Euro to double the dollar price in Euro.

The other costs you need to be aware of are security costs, range fees, etc. These should factor into your decision. Also getting a firearms dealer to get the pistol for you. You need a serial number to apply for the license, and need the license before the gun can be brought in. Shipping won't cost the stars, but there will be a fee.

So if the gun comes in a say €500, adding security costs, and range fees you are looking between €1,000 - €1,200. This figure goes down if you are already a member of a range, and already have security measures in your home for other firearms.

Can't see any indication of price for Ireland for these. I would like to know what I'm looking at before I approach a dealer.

Nor will you.

With the current laws surrounding pistols very few dealers will stock pistols, even unrestricted ones. Second hand ones are available, but you must choose from what's there rather than pick what you want form any gun.

An option might be to search up North. Fewer issues, easier importing, and as good an option as any.

juice1304 wrote:

You will also need a safe and range fees would be 300-350 a year and 50 for your insurance and there may be a E100 joining fee in the midlands it is 300.

The midlands accommodate pistol shooting, but is not dedicated to only pistol shooting so the OP would be better to source a more specific pistol club if that is his only interest.

dc99

Thanks for the reply!
Its my first, and I do not have a long rifle, never been really interested in them. I have liked the thought of target shooting with a hand gun though.

I just see people referring to the Sig Mosquito and the Walther P22 - the S&W M&P22 looks the same as them and I wondered if it was a gun that has been brought here before?
I would really go through a dealer for it as it's my first and its going to be complicated enough to deal with every thing else (membership, ins, licence etc)

I just wanted to get an idea on the pistols costs as well. (or the price for the sig or Walther).

Even though I'll go through a dealer I wanted to get a handle on cost before talking to one to see if I'm getting a good price from him or to move onto another...if you follow.

So any help would be grateful received!

Thanks in advance!

juice1304

you could buy a new p22 for E300-350
The m&p is going to be the same as a full sized m&p the sig mosquito and p22 are tiny in comparison to a full sized p99 etc..

dc99

Thanks Juice,
That pretty good, I though it might be more.

I have seen online (you tube) that there are issues with it?
Slide breaking, fiddlely breakdown lever/clip.

However I also realise that this is just a few peoples opinions etc.

I suppose local (this country) opinions would be more help for me.

(I live SW of the country by the way)
Thanks again for info/help!

rowa

The smith and wesson m&p .22 pistol isn't a smith and wesson , its made by walther in germany and isn't likely to be better than any of the other pot metal plinkers.
The best begineers pistol has to be the ruger mk2/3 or the browning buckmark.

Sparks

dc99 wrote: »

I suppose local (this country) opinions would be more help for me.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56055594
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53345918&postcount=17
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62851621
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66361614

juice1304

I would vote ruger mk II/III Sweet gun:cool::cool:, Thats what i am getting.
If you have your heart set on the M&P the best way to get it would be to licence a pistol on the list and enjoy it for a while and find out what you like. Then you could have a dealer import it and you could do a sub. You can change your firearm on the licence on a like for like basis. The super might be more accommodating. Although he may not and say it is an evil black tactical assault weapon or some other rubbish. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
You won't win any competitions with the m&p though it'll just be a plinker. I also like those type firearms but if you are in it to win it, well it won't.:)
In saying that you might get the licnce there are quite a few in my club with .22 1911's. I was thinking of getting one of those untill i read they have a zinc alloy frame.:pac:

Sparks

rowa wrote: »

The best begineers pistol has to be the ruger mk2/3 or the browning buckmark.

Depends on what you want to do with it to be honest rowa.

Me, I'd say it was an IZH-46M air pistol, and then move onto a .22 when you've learnt to shoot that (I think that learning to shoot without the recoil on a single-shot pistol first gives you better results; and heck, you might wind up like me and just never feel the need to move onto anything else because you get too much fun from the air pistol). And if moving on to a smallbore pistol, I'd be hunting for an IZH-35, or even an MCM (yeah, they're a lot older, being a 1950s design, and they normally don't come with a decent grip; but for a beginners pistol, they're so cheap that it doesn't matter, and you can get aftermarket grips and still pay stupidly low amounts for one) but then I'm a fan of baikals for beginners pistols because they're: (a) cheap as chips; (b) slightly tougher than a bulldozer; and most importantly, (c) incredibly accurate for how cheap and tough they are - they'll outshoot any beginner for so long that by the time they need to trade up, they'll have been around for so long that they'll know exactly what they need from that trade-up... and some won't ever need to trade up at all.

And dig through egun, Civdef's right about the bargains.
Here's an IZH-35 (currently bidding at €150) and here's an MCM.(currently bidding at €1 but I think it'll go up a bit ).

clivej

Where are you based in the country as this will help to decide where your best range may be.


See www.gunshop.ie as they are one of the best dealers in the country

BattleCorp

Sparks wrote: »

And dig through egun, Civdef's right about the bargains.
Here's an IZH-35 (currently bidding at €150) and here's an MCM.(currently bidding at €1 but I think it'll go up a bit ).

Sorry for hijacking the thread but is it hard to get second hand parts for an IZH-35 seeing as they are out of production a fair while?

I know it's a good gun and doesn't break easily but sh1t happens.

I was going to get one a while ago but I was scared in case anything went wrong with it.

rowa

The walther ksp 200 is the same pistol but better finished , walther may still stock spares.

Sparks

BattleCorp wrote: »

Sorry for hijacking the thread but is it hard to get second hand parts for an IZH-35 seeing as they are out of production a fair while?
I know it's a good gun and doesn't break easily but sh1t happens.
I was going to get one a while ago but I was scared in case anything went wrong with it.

Well, there are still companies making aftermarket parts for it (http://user.mc.net/~drweber/izh/izh.html) and there were so many made (both as the 35M and as the Walther KSP200) that you'd be okay for another decade or so yet; and then there's the point that the successor to the 35M (the MP438) looks to be reusing a lot of the old parts - but it's not in full production yet.

Still though, for the price... hell, I'd buy one if I could ever get to a .22 pistol range to use it

dc99

Hi again,

I have another question... after looking into it more I see some things I need guidance on.

I've read the Garda guidelines and it seems that as a Target shooter (hopefully :-) ) I would be allowed to have up to 750-1000 rounds of ammunition. It looks for me to enter a figure on the licence application. Is this the normal amount for pistol target shooters to apply for? (I see that it would be normal to purchase bullets in 500 boxes...so two boxes...) Will the Super see this as normal quantity or has a licence ever been rejected over the quantity (despite it being in the guidelines...)

Next. I see it looks for a reason for picking the specific pistol. Of the top of my head I would be thinking a reason for a specific and particular, pistol would be to have value for money, reliability, comparable to other members (hopefully) and availability of the pistol and for spares for the particular pistol. is this the type of reasons that would be acceptable?

Thank for any pointers/help!

Cass

dc99 wrote: »

Will the Super see this as normal quantity or has a licence ever been rejected over the quantity (despite it being in the guidelines...)

If the ammo amount is seen by the Super as "excessive" then s/he will allocate an amount they deem appropriate. The license will not be refused based on ammo amount being sought.

As for the amount. Look for the amount you will use between trips to the dealers. If you go to the dealer once a month or so, and use between 750 - 1,000 rounds then seek at least that amount. On the separate piece of paper explain that as a target shooter you use between 750 - 1,000 round, and the ammo you buy comes in bricks of 500 so you are seeking an allocation of 1,000 rounds.

Next. I see it looks for a reason for picking the specific pistol. Of the top of my head I would be thinking a reason for a specific and particular, pistol would be to have value for money, reliability, comparable to other members (hopefully) and availability of the pistol and for spares for the particular pistol. is this the type of reasons that would be acceptable?

There is no need for such specifics. The reason you are seeking this firearm is for the purpose of sports target shooting in an authorised range/club. No need for details such as reliability, etc.

Witcher

You can apply for any amount of ammunition you want but the Super will give you whatever he decides himself...some won't go over 100, some 500...some will give 1000+, just depends.

You don't have to say why you want the specific model of pistol...where it asks why do you require this firearm you just put in 'For target shooting at X range'.

dc99

Please explain, on a Separate Sheet, why this specific type of firearm is required.

Hi,

For clarification, I was referring to section 4.2 of the licence application where the above sentence is.

This is after selecting an option.

It also has at the end of the form (last page) in the check list -no8

"8
Adequate explanation as to why this specific type of firearm is required."

I know I might be getting too specific, but don't want to delay my application anymore than necessary....

Thanks for the info though...

Cass

As said above the reason is;

"For the purpose of sports target shooting at an authorised range".

That's it. The answers both Blay and myself gave were with section 4.2 in mind.

I have used this for all my target rifles, and pistols, and each one was granted. They do not seek a review on the pistol from a performance, reliability, price comparison, etc. point of view.

rowa

Ezridax wrote: »

They do not seek a review on the pistol from a performance, reliability, price comparison, etc. point of view.

But they may question its suitability for "olympic" style shooting. When i was refused i was told revolvers were not permitted for olympic shooting, which was and is untrue. Hopefully the super will see a .22 pistol as just that and not concern himself with anything further.

dc99

Again, thanks guys.

Been a big help!

Ta