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2013 National Series

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    #32
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    TriWazza wrote: »

    Would have to agree with Peter here. It does matter to people and it should be as fair as possible.

    Its time we celebrated the achievements the our AG champions in this country. In sports up and down the country there is prestige in the their national champions and other historical events. Let us take a little pride in ours and not waste the energy that is being generated by growing participation.

    Yes the majority of people who race in Ireland race to better themselves on varying levels with no aspiration for overall honours. But I have yet to race in a National Series race in Ireland that is easy to get into the top ten. No they are not professional and for the majority would never aspire to be. Yes we live in a small country with an even smaller talent pool but they still come out on top so lets congratulate them for their effort rather than constantly bagging them out.

    Lets learn the lessons of cycling and athletics. Lets make participation across the genders and ages the cornerstone or our sport. At the same time lets not devalue competition. Lets applaud the raising of the bar regardless of the level.

    AG champions are celebrated in this country. The NC races are *the* races to place in. I completely agree with you. However this discussion is about the National Series (NS)?


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    #33
    TriWazza
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭TriWazza


    tunney wrote: »
    AG champions are celebrated in this country. The NC races are *the* races to place in. I completely agree with you. However this discussion is about the National Series (NS)?

    I think my issue is that you implied that the NS is not important. I think it is and remains important to those chasing the title. I think ,and I believe you agree too, that its important to make it more reflective of the most consistent athlete in Ireland over the course of a given season.


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    #34
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    TriWazza wrote: »
    I think my issue is that you implied that the NS is not important. I think it is and remains important to those chasing the title. I think ,and I believe you agree too, that its important to make it more reflective of the most consistent athlete in Ireland over the course of a given season.

    I do think its important to make it more reflective of the most consistent athlete in Ireland over the course of a given season. However that is not possible given "what it is". So yes I do believe that it is not important.


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    #35
    DaveR1
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭DaveR1


    tunney wrote: »
    I do think its important to make it more reflective of the most consistent athlete in Ireland over the course of a given season. However that is not possible given "what it is". So yes I do believe that it is not important.

    Do you not think the top 5 in the National Series were the 5 most consistent performers throughout the year???


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    #36
    BTH
    Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    DaveR1 wrote: »
    Do you not think the top 5 in the National Series were the 5 most consistent performers throughout the year???

    Perhaps they were, but I can guarantee you, the guy in 15th wasn't the 15th most consistent all year. He just got luck picking a couple of races. He'll tell you the same himself :D


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    #37
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    smart people use the weakness of a system .....;-)


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    #38
    longshank
    Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭longshank


    BTH wrote: »

    Perhaps they were, but I can guarantee you, the guy in 15th wasn't the 15th most consistent all year. He just got luck picking a couple of races. He'll tell you the same himself :D
    nobody cares who came second never mind 15th!!


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    #39
    DaveR1
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭DaveR1


    That's fair enough.....

    I have only been considering the top end, from which I do think the rankings reflect the years performances.
    Outside the top athletes the gaps get much smaller and so maybe then the race choice does end up influencing the final results!!


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    #40
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    BTH wrote: »
    Perhaps they were, but I can guarante you the guy in 15th wasn't the 15th most consistent all year. He just got luck picking a couple of races. He'll tell you the same himself :D

    it wasnt luck ..... its was knowledge where the system fails.


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    #41
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    it wasnt luck ..... its was knowledge where the system fails.

    And when a system is that flawed it should be discarded, ignored and valued appropriately.


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    #42
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    tunney wrote: »
    And when a system is that flawed it should be discarded, ignored and valued appropriately.


    To change it and make it work would be the most constructive action.


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    #43
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    To change it and make it work would be the most constructive action.

    It depends on what you mean by work. For the stated goals it is working absolutely perfectly.


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    #44
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    tunney wrote: »
    I do think its important to make it more reflective of the most consistent athlete in Ireland over the course of a given season.

    see your quote


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    #45
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    see your quote

    Thats what I mean by work. However I do not make any decisions and my, and your, definition of work simply do not matter.


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    #46
    littlemsfickle
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭littlemsfickle


    peter kern wrote: »
    it wasnt luck ..... its was knowledge where the system fails.

    I definitely think there's an element of luck involved as well. I think any kind of a league system is going to be open to strategic race planning - the guy who won our club cycling league last year ended up champion because he chose to marshal rather than race in the final round. I don't think this means we should discard it completely though - just try to improve it as much as is possible. Forming a focus group and putting their ideas into practice as TI is doing is definitely a step in the right direction. Just my two cents:)


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    #47
    Huff n Puff
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭Huff n Puff


    tunney wrote: »
    For the stated goals it is working absolutely perfectly.
    I would be interested in finding out what these stated goals are? is there a link you can put up?

    It's very odd that a system that is so "flawed it should be discarded, ignored and valued appropriately" is working perfectly in terms of the stated goals.

    If it is working perfectly for the stated goals then why are TI trying to change it? have their goals changed?


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    #48
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Just spotted on TI Facebook:

    https://www.facebook.com/triathlonireland

    We are currently working with UCD's School of Mathematical Sciences on a potential alternative to the current Vodafone National Series Points scoring system. Should a suitable alternative be decided upon full details will be communicated in late January. Again thank you to the focus group we had a number of weeks ago for the constructive feedback.

    I hope there's a manual produced of how to understand the NS points next year if they're getting actuarists involved.


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    #49
    Chartsengrafs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chartsengrafs


    Or actuaries even ;)


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    #50
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Never mind the manual to understand it, I'll start with a dictionary to look up the plural of actuarial people ;)


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