2013 National Series

catweazle

Well straight off I am delighted as there are a decent few in Connacht this year, I might even have a go at doing it next year.

Are there three national series races at middle distance or am I reading that wrong, good call on Tri an Mhi getting National Championships. Ireman still hanging in there though

Vodafone National Series

Sprint
20th April - North Tipp Sprint
5th May - Liam Ball Triathlon
11th May - Valentia Island Triathlon
8th June - Crooked Lake Triathlon
15th June - Hook or by Crook Triathlon
22nd June - Mullaghmore Triathlon
6th July - Waterways Ireland Triathlone Sprint
13th July - The Two Provinces Triathlon
4th August - Loughrea Sprint Triathlon
10th August - Tri the Lough Sprint Triathlon
8th September - Lough Key Sprint Triathlon
Standard
28th April – Joey Hannan Triathlon (standard)
25th May - Rosses Point Olympic Triathlon
1st June - TriAthy Olympic
29th June - Hell of the West
21st July - Big Red Cloud Beast of the East
27th July - Little Bo Peep Triathlon
25th August - Dublin City Triathlon – Standard
31st August - Mourne Triathlon Castlewellan
21st September - Blacksod Point Challenge Triathlon
Middle
18th May - Tri An Mhi CXIII Middle Distance Triathlon
18th August - Half Ireman
14th September - The Lost Sheep

National Championships

Paratriathlon
6th July - Waterways Ireland Triathlone Paratriathlon
Triathlon
Sprint Distance: triAthlone, 6th July
Standard Distance: Dublin City Triathlon, 25th August
Middle Distance: Tri An Mhi CXIII Middle Distance Triathlon, 18th May
Duathlon
3 Rock Duathlon, 6th April
Aquathlon
Galway Aquathlon Festival, 20th July
Childrens National Championships

Triathlon: Loughrea Youth Triathlon, 4th Aug
Aquathlon: Galway Aquathon Festival (Youths), 20th July

Fazz

Yep you're reading it right.

Good to see TI changing rules so only 1 NS race per weekend.
Removes the likes of doing sprint vs olympic at same race to get better points... BTH would be the man to ask about that kinda lark though...


I'm delighted to see Tri an Mhi with the champs personally.
Hard to argue with any of the National Champs choices in fairness.

I wonder will the 3 rock be at National Distance Duathlon now or still the sprint distance now it's the National Champs does anyone know?

couerdelion

Fazz wrote: »

Yep you're reading it right.

Good to see TI changing rules so only 1 NS race per weekend.
Removes the likes of doing sprint vs olympic at same race to get better points...

Wonder where they got that idea from...

I think the calendar looks really good this year. A few missing that were there last year like Caroline Kearney but some new races too to keep things fresh.

I got to see some of the hard work TI put in to get the NS and NC sorted this year and I don't envy their task.

Clum

With 3 middle distance races will there be a change to the scoring? Last time I gave the National Series a go (2011) it was 2 x Sprint, 2 x Standard and next best from sprint, standard or middle distance. Is it still the same?

RacoonQueen

Clum wrote: »

With 3 middle distance races will there be a change to the scoring? Last time I gave the National Series a go (2011) it was 2 x Sprint, 2 x Standard and next best from sprint, standard or middle distance. Is it still the same?

Was wondering that myself. Was actually hoping to do all three of them - tri an mhí being 4 weeks after London marathon is a bit of a stickler though

BTH

Fazz wrote: »

BTH would be the man to ask about that kinda lark though...

Hey....

That wont be happening in 2013.

Not sure what my plans will be. I only arrive back after my wedding the weekend before The Sprint champs, so I'm not sure I'll be in any shape to do myself justice there.

El Director

Like CW I am delighted to see NS races in the West next year. I see Loughrea has been moved to early August, I did this in 2009 and thought it was a great race. Delighted to see Mullaghmore back on the calendar , still IMO the best sprint tri I have ever taken part in. Lough is another great event so nice to see that make a return. Not sure what I will be doing next year but one thing I was sure of is that I intended to do more races west of the shannon and now that many of them are NS races this adds to the lure even more. I won't be doing any middle distance and the other two NC races may not suit: TriAthlone I would like to do the relay again and Dublin Tri I don't like the course.

TriWazza

Fazz wrote: »

I wonder will the 3 rock be at National Distance Duathlon now or still the sprint distance now it's the National Champs does anyone know?

Think it says its a standard distance duathlon on the calendar which would make it 10k 40k 5k ... and only proper order too

The race has big shoes to fill. North West Tri put on a great event in Burnfoot the past couple of years.I do like the fact that its been moved more centrally on the island. Hopefully will attract a high quality field.

Fazz

TriWazza wrote: »

Think it says its a standard distance duathlon on the calendar which would make it 10k 40k 5k ... and only proper order too

The race has big shoes to fill. North West Tri put on a great event in Burnfoot the past couple of years.I do like the fact that its been moved more centrally on the island. Hopefully will attract a high quality field.

Yep - I reckon it will be stacked hopefully!

Also note the Fingal duathlons are standard distance... so some nice early season blasts to be had there too for those up for it

PWEI

Sad to see that Brian Boru is not a NS anymore but after what happened this year it's no surprise. (Is it even on next year? I don't see it on the IT calendar)

I'm pleased for Lanesborough Tri Club that their race has been added to the NS series, they seem like a good bunch. That's one I'll definitely be doing.

catweazle

PWEI wrote: »

Sad to see that Brian Boru is not a NS anymore but after what happened this year it's no surprise. (Is it even on next year? I don't see it on the IT calendar)
.

Ya its there alright, the 31st of August on the TI site

ray o

catweazle wrote: »

Ya its there alright, the 31st of August on the TI site

Looks like they are still adding to the calendar. Number of races added since yesterday. Brian Boru, Tri an mhi sprint, Pulse Aquathons

bryangiggsy

Disappointing to see Caroline Kearney lose their NS status.

always thought it was a well run event.No NS olympic race between july 27 and aug 25th.

miller82

bryangiggsy wrote: »

NS olympic race between july 27 and aug 25th.

ye i saw this. Seems a bit ridiculous

DaveR1

miller82 wrote: »

ye i saw this. Seems a bit ridiculous

Its almost as if they are trying to force everyone to do Dublin........

bryangiggsy

Athlone getting a national race for the 2nd time in a few years is a strange one too

Huff n Puff

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Athlone getting a national race for the 2nd time in a few years is a strange one too

2nd time in a few years?

try 5 out of 6 years!

2008 - sprint champs
2009 - sprint champs
2010
2011 - sprint champs
2012 - Olympic champs
2013 - sprint champs

I guess I will be 'busy' for that National Champs race again this year. Looking forward to Dublin (excellent race) and Tri an Mhi (heard good reports) though.

The greater selection of National Series races for 2013 is good. We will just have to see what the change in the NS points scoring system requires us to do.

tunney

Huff n Puff wrote: »

2nd time in a few years?

try 5 out of 6 years!

2008 - sprint champs
2009 - sprint champs
2010
2011 - sprint champs
2012 - Olympic champs
2013 - sprint champs

I guess I will be 'busy' for that National Champs race again this year. Looking forward to Dublin (excellent race) and Tri an Mhi (heard good reports) though.

The greater selection of National Series races for 2013 is good. We will just have to see what the change in the NS points scoring system requires us to do.

I've a good idea on what it will be.

All make it closer but not fairer.

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

I've a good idea on what it will be.

All make it closer but not fairer.

How do you think they should do it Dave? How can they make it a level playing field?

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

How do you think they should do it Dave? How can they make it a level playing field?

They cannot. The stated goals of the NS are incompatible with a fair competition. Given the goals and objectives and the requirements that fall out of them the rankings generated by the NS can never to be a fair, or an accurate (or even approximate) reflection of a triathletes standing in the Irish triathlon community.

Simples as they say.

peter kern

bryangiggsy wrote: »

How do you think they should do it Dave? How can they make it a level playing field?

Personally i think if they give nat champ races around 2.5%-3% bonus the current system would be quite fair now since they eliminated the cherry pick races like the sprint race at the same day as the oly nat champs.

The thing is even at WTS series level you know that yokahama is a 'softer ' race which is easier to get points than lests say the european races . but thats how the cookie crumbles.

I think getting rid of the double weekender was already a great move by TI.

tThe only other easy way I see it is that you could eliminate the highest and lowest score as they do in ice figure skating.
so the best 5 races are taken and then you only count 2nd 3rd 4th highest score. which is something that should be very easy for TI to do. that can eliminate one out liner for instance Biron bru this year and i think the half champs which scored very low. and put people that raced the half nat champs and not BB are a bit at a disadvantage ( katie cooke would come to mind here).

or if you wanted to keep 4 races you just take off the highest score as this is prob the biggest prob. like BB this year. I think if you were to cancel out the highest score of each athlete the results would be quite fair for the last few years. ( i am only visualising this in my head and i haven't calculated and could well be wrong )

anyway personally i still would want the 2,5% bonus points for nat champs as I think only people that do well at the nat champs should win the nationals series. and currently if you want to win the nat series you kind of have to avoid those races as they lose points compared is they are only nat series races.

But again I still think the way races are placed is already a good improvement and its a start in the right direction.

sconhome

Makes sense Peter.

Only down side I see is possibly less people doing more races. So instead of doing 7 races and hoping for your best 5, you do 5 or 6 races and aim for a better mid range of scores.

Flip side of this is less pressure on entry for races as there would be a more balanced approach.

The only other way is to not divulge the NS points until the end of the sesaon. Which would take the 'bandit' out of the racing, and stop tactical race entries.

peter kern

you can still do as many races as you want only the 5 best scores will the be used for either deleteing lowest and highest score
or only highest score. whatever makes more sense.

amphkingwest wrote: »

Makes sense Peter.

Only down side I see is possibly less people doing more races. So instead of doing 7 races and hoping for your best 5, you do 5 or 6 races and aim for a better mid range of scores.

Flip side of this is less pressure on entry for races as there would be a more balanced approach.

The only other way is to not divulge the NS points until the end of the sesaon. Which would take the 'bandit' out of the racing, and stop tactical race entries.

El Director

AFAIK...there used to be a bonus points for NC but they got rid of that because most/some of the athletes from the organising club would not be able to participate. Correct me if I'm wrong.

speedyj

I'd disagree with having bonus points for a different reason. Missing a race through other commitments, injury etc. puts one at an immediate disadvantage. The original weighting was so large that missing an NC effectively ended NS chances, hardly fair.

I do like the other suggestion re discarding the best result. Hmm maybe that would then cancel out the "bonus" if in existence. It ain't easy :-)

couerdelion

El Director wrote: »

AFAIK...there used to be a bonus points for NC but they got rid of that because most/some of the athletes from the organising club would not be able to participate. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct, that's the reason they removed the bonus points.

peter kern

speedyj wrote: »

I'd disagree with having bonus points for a different reason. Missing a race through other commitments, injury etc. puts one at an immediate disadvantage. The original weighting was so large that missing an NC effectively ended NS chances, hardly fair.

I do like the other suggestion re discarding the best result. Hmm maybe that would then cancel out the "bonus" if in existence. It ain't easy :-)

thats the thing its not easy ;-) somebody will always be unhappy.
from what i hear TI promised in the last meeting to consult with a stastic/ math expert it should be for them to advise what makes sense and is easiest for TI to administer ( i think for any rules its important to keep still simple.)



the bonus point back then was 20 points and that was way to much, also you see i suggest 2 out of 3 races and not all 3 races as it was back then. what i liked about the bonus system despite its flaw was, you could only win nat series if you did well in the nat champs and you had races where you got all the good people racing in one race ( soemthing we are missing in the last few years )

if you look at valentia this year it lost about 3% of its scoring from last year so you are still not at an disadvantage not being able to race their . its more people that race nats are not at an disadvantage.

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

thats the thing its not easy ;-) somebody will always be unhappy.
from what i hear TI promised in the last meeting to consult with a stastic/ math expert it should be for them to advise what makes sense and is easiest for TI to administer ( i think for any rules its important to keep still simple.)



the bonus point back then was 20 points and that was way to much, also you see i suggest 2 out of 3 races and not all 3 races as it was back then. what i liked about the bonus system despite its flaw was, you could only win nat series if you did well in the nat champs and you had races where you got all the good people racing in one race ( soemthing we are missing in the last few years )

if you look at valentia this year it lost about 3% of its scoring from last year so you are still not at an disadvantage not being able to race their . its more people that race nats are not at an disadvantage.

LOL its going to be something like 100 points for winner and linear reduction of points.

Simple to administer and in the end it really doesn't matter.

couerdelion

peter kern wrote: »

thats the thing its not easy ;-) somebody will always be unhappy.
from what i hear TI promised in the last meeting to consult with a stastic/ math expert it should be for them to advise what makes sense and is easiest for TI to administer ( i think for any rules its important to keep still simple.)

I'm not sure that they promised it was more a case of an agreement that rather than a bunch of amatuers trying to get a system that worked surely it would make sense to talk to someone with expertise in the field.

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

LOL its going to be something like 100 points for winner and linear reduction of points.

Simple to administer and in the end it really doesn't matter.

it dosnt matter to you ( and me to be honest) but it matters actually
to a lot of people, and since it does matter to a lot of people it would be better to make it work, or abandom it completely.

TriWazza

tunney wrote: »

LOL its going to be something like 100 points for winner and linear reduction of points.

Simple to administer and in the end it really doesn't matter.

Would have to agree with Peter here. It does matter to people and it should be as fair as possible.

Its time we celebrated the achievements the our AG champions in this country. In sports up and down the country there is prestige in the their national champions and other historical events. Let us take a little pride in ours and not waste the energy that is being generated by growing participation.

Yes the majority of people who race in Ireland race to better themselves on varying levels with no aspiration for overall honours. But I have yet to race in a National Series race in Ireland that is easy to get into the top ten. No they are not professional and for the majority would never aspire to be. Yes we live in a small country with an even smaller talent pool but they still come out on top so lets congratulate them for their effort rather than constantly bagging them out.

Lets learn the lessons of cycling and athletics. Lets make participation across the genders and ages the cornerstone or our sport. At the same time lets not devalue competition. Lets applaud the raising of the bar regardless of the level.