Revenue staff get paid to eat Xmas dinner!

MagicSean

goodie2shoes wrote: »

your response reveals the mentality of the public sector in this country. see the money they are wasting 'er i mean investing in "team building" is not their's.
it is PUBLIC money, not private generated profits.
we the public, ie Ireland inc. is bankrupt.
i know these concepts, profit, wastage, bankruptcy will be difficult for you, but you must try.

Someone aware of those concepts must certainly be aware of the benefits of high staff morale as it relates to increased efficiency.

goodie2shoes wrote: »

personally i think this story goes to the heart of the problems we have within the public sector, especially their cavalier attitude towards taxpayers money.

in any private sector organisation i ever worked in, Xmas parties were organised outside work hours, and where the company was not performing they were curtailed or cancelled.

Personally i think your comments go to the heart of the rising level of depression in Ireland.

Madam_X

What's nonsense? The fact it doesn't suit you? I've worked in private companies that do plenty of this kind of stuff. Your irrational hatred of the public sector is your emotional problem, but resorting to lies is of no use.

DavyD_83

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i've been saying for quite some time that we live in a banana republic, but this sort of thing belongs to Mugabe's Zimbabwe.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/revenue-staff-get-paid-to-eat-christmas-lunch-3282204.html

Are you currently being paid to post on Boards OP?
I know I am

ScumLord

MagicSean wrote: »

The only cost to the employer of this christmas lunch is the few hours work that will be missed. How is it any different to your last day where you do very little for the entire day?

Not exactly true.

For those not on the clock, it will of course be counted as being on-duty and hence leave does not have to be taken

So it's not just a case of staff getting paid having a doss on the last few hours. They're bringing everyone in for a paid doss evening. That goes into willfully wasting taxpayer money which we supposedly don't have to waste.

While this story isn't that big of a waste it still goes to show that waste is systemic in the public sector. They're just not trying hard enough to save money throughout the public sector and not just on big stuff.

dvpower

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Would your manager allow you to have an Xmas party "on the clock"?

Yep - it'll be a short day with most people leaving early except for a skeleton staff to cover the support desk. And the xmas party will be paid for by the company. It's not that abnormal.

I think you just happen to be in a job that doesn't have any of these little perks around Christmas and you're feeling a little bitter about it. Am I right?

Luca Brasi

Are we getting a bit too self righteous? Why not cancel the entire Christmas season abd chain people to their desks between 9 and 5 ?
Sure the Trocadero and all the other eateries dont need the moeny

Luca Brasi

dvpower wrote: »

Yep - it'll be a short day with most people leaving early except for a skeleton staff to cover the support desk. And the xmas party will be paid for by the company. It's not that abnormal.

I think you just happen to be in a job that doesn't have any of these little perks around Christmas and you're feeling a little bitter about it. Am I right?

Probably one of Joe Higgins socialists who want to drag us all down to their level of miserable living.

MagicSean

ScumLord wrote: »

Not exactly true.

So it's not just a case of staff getting paid having a doss on the last few hours. They're bringing everyone in for a paid doss evening. That goes into willfully wasting taxpayer money which we supposedly don't have to waste.

While this story isn't that big of a waste it still goes to show that waste is systemic in the public sector. They're just not trying hard enough to save money throughout the public sector and not just on big stuff.

There will still be no cost other than work hours for those who attend. I ask you again how is a few hours set aside for a christmas party any different from your day of doing nothing?

Odysseus

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Would your manager allow you to have an Xmas party "on the clock"?

The managers here have allowed the party/meal "on the clock", so it's counted as work; they are getting paid to attend. If they are getting paid to attend this function then they are entitled to apply for any expenses that they incur as set out as per IT54 on the Revenues own website.

Let's see last year I had a X-Mass lunch with my manager and the rest of my team. We had to go back to work, I think I had a client at 15:00 so I got paid to eat if you look at it that way.

What I could not do was claim for the cost of the meal or the cost of travel to and from the party.

However, it posters like you that really make me laugh when I see watse in my service. So I guess in a way I should be thanking you and the other guys. Gues what I just did there, I threw six brand new paper clips into the bin; look at that for waste. It might even keep you awake at night.

ScumLord

MagicSean wrote: »

There will still be no cost other than work hours for those who attend.

It's additional hours that wouldn't have been paid out otherwise. It's not the same as the people that were on that day doing less work, it's paying the rest of the staff to come in and do nothing as well.

If a company can afford to do that, that's their business. The state can not afford to be wasting money like that. A business that was in the financial position the state is in simply could not do that, money doesn't magically appear to allow that to happen and the bank would be seriously pissed if you showed expenditure like that.

knucklehead6

goodie2shoes wrote: »

nonsense!

This should be good.

Go on goodie.... explain how your in depth knowledge of where charlietheminx works allows you to call her assertion that the below quote is, in fact, nonsense.

Originally Posted by charlietheminxx
We always take an unoffical half day for our Xmas lunch (private sector). We get someone in to cover the phones, and off we go. I really don't think this is a big deal - they're even paying for lunch themselves!

Yeah so people who get a "free" half day are lucky, and I appreciate that, but we're a small office and we all put in unpaid overtime over the year so I think it balances out.

BigBrownBear

Misunderstood the thread cos of title.
I thought the staff were being told ' here's X amount of cash if you eat your Christmas lunch'

MagicSean

ScumLord wrote: »

It's additional hours that wouldn't have been paid out otherwise. It's not the same as the people that were on that day doing less work, it's paying the rest of the staff to come in and do nothing as well.

If a company can afford to do that, that's their business. The state can not afford to be wasting money like that. A business that was in the financial position the state is in simply could not do that, money doesn't magically appear to allow that to happen and the bank would be seriously pissed if you showed expenditure like that.

They arent getting paid extra for it. They will get time off. So again, the only cost is the four and a half work hours for each person who attends, as opposed to the 8 hours of doing very little for everyone in your company.

knucklehead6

BigBrownBear wrote: »

Misunderstood the thread cos of title.
I thought the staff were being told ' here's X amount of cash if you eat your Christmas lunch'

It's like a reverse of the spur steakhouse challenge!

They'll serve up something totally unpalatable, and watch as the revenue people have to eat it.

ScumLord

MagicSean wrote: »

They arent getting paid extra for it. They will get time off.

That's not what the quote in the article says.

For those not on the clock, it will of course be counted as being on-duty and hence leave does not have to be taken

I take that as those that wouldn't have been working that day will be paid to attend the party. That's an additional expense.

martingriff

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

They are.



You're talking sh!te.



And that's from www.revenue.ie

You are talking bull and you know it. Those allowances are for when they are off doing work for there work. Care to explain how they will get pay for there lunch and whatever they do after. Pure laughable

MagicSean

ScumLord wrote: »

That's not what the quote in the article says.


I take that as those that wouldn't have been working that day will be paid to attend the party. That's an additional expense.

That quote makes no sense. Why would someone need to take leave if they weren't on the clock anyway? The author all but admits they have no clue what the arrangements mean. Typical of the Indo.

What it likely means is that people who attend and were not due to be working that day will be allowed treat it as working hours and take the time off on a future date.

martingriff

goodie2shoes wrote: »

your response reveals the mentality of the public sector in this country. see the money they are wasting 'er i mean investing in "team building" is not their's.
it is PUBLIC money, not private generated profits.
we the public, ie Ireland inc. is bankrupt.
i know these concepts, profit, wastage, bankruptcy will be difficult for you, but you must try.

What are they wasting the money on?
Lunch being paid by the workers

2ndcoming

They are all on salaries. They would be paid the exact same either way whether it's done this way or they all have to take a half day's leave for it, in which case most wouldn't bother attending and they might as well effectively cancel Christmas.

They will receive no Christmas bonus and they won't shut up shop for a week or 10 days like most companies, they will be off Christmas Day and Stephen's Day and anything outside that will come from their annual leave.

As the sole recognition outside their salary of their work for the year (award-winning work, in this case) I think a half day to go and buy themselves a restaurant lunch is meagre in the extreme.

I think the poster who keeps (imp-)lying they can claim it back as expenses is well aware he is talking absolute pony as well, as many have pointed out previously so I won't bother addressing it any further.

Benny_Cake

martingriff wrote: »

What are they wasting the money on?
Lunch being paid by the workers

In his opening post he compared getting 2-3 hours off once a year to have a meal with other employees at their own expense to something that ZANU-PF would do, so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a sensible answer.

I work in IT and I've worked in both the private and public sectors. In the private sector, we'd split at lunchtime for dinner and drinks, at the company's expense. In the public sector, it's really down to local management, but there is no free dinner. Some years we went for dinner without going back to work, one year we had a release going in so we just stuck around for the dinner and went back to the office for the afternoon. It's a local decision, based on workload. At no time were we able to claim expenses for this, and I've no problem with that at all. Someone said in an earlier post - let managers manage. I couldn't agree more.

Zebra3

2ndcoming wrote: »

They are all on salaries. They would be paid the exact same either way whether it's done this way or they all have to take a half day's leave for it, in which case most wouldn't bother attending and they might as well effectively cancel Christmas.

They will receive no Christmas bonus and they won't shut up shop for a week or 10 days like most companies, they will be off Christmas Day and Stephen's Day and anything outside that will come from their annual leave.

You think private sector workers whose place of employment shuts down for a week or so don't take the days from the employees' annual leave? :rolleyes:

The fact is that staff in the Revenue Office are getting a half day for nothing. Each member that gets this bonus should declare it on their tax retruns at the end of year, otherwise they are indulging in tax evasion.

I assume they will do this, right? :rolleyes:

frankosw

Zebra3 wrote: »

The fact is that staff in the Revenue Office are getting a half day for nothing.

Good..they deserve it.

Fr_Dougal

Odysseus wrote: »

Gues what I just did there, I threw six brand new paper clips into the bin; look at that for waste. It might even keep you awake at night.

With great power comes great responsibility.

ScumLord

MagicSean wrote: »

What it likely means is that people who attend and were not due to be working that day will be allowed treat it as working hours and take the time off on a future date.

I don't see why they'd need leave outside of working hours. It does seem like they're being brought in and paid to party.

All this talk of people that have done much more in private sector doesn't really equate with all the small businesses that simply can't afford to do this kind of thing in the current climate. Large multinationals probably can but most Irish businesses can't.

dvpower

Zebra3 wrote: »

Each member that gets this bonus should declare it on their tax retruns at the end of year, otherwise they are indulging in tax evasion.

Complains about imaginary tax evasion.
Sig urges real tax evasion.

WTF?

Zebra3

dvpower wrote: »

Complains about imaginary tax evasion.
Sig urges real tax evasion.

WTF?

It's not imaginary tax evasion and yes, I do urge people not to pay the new tax that will go to pay for rich people's gambling losses.

2ndcoming

Zebra3 wrote: »

You think private sector workers whose place of employment shuts down for a week or so don't take the days from the employees' annual leave? :rolleyes:

The fact is that staff in the Revenue Office are getting a half day for nothing. Each member that gets this bonus should declare it on their tax retruns at the end of year, otherwise they are indulging in tax evasion.

I assume they will do this, right? :rolleyes:

I've never had to take leave for the week or so I 've gotten off for Christmas in the past. You can't work if your place of business is closed, obviously, so it can't be considered ordinary leave when you couldn't work if you wanted to.

The rest of your post is complete and utter fiction. They don't get paid anything other than they would have been paid anyway you maniac. They. Are. On. A. Salary. What part of that don't you understand? Of course all of their salary will be recorded on their P60 and P35 remitted by Revenue in this case to Revenue. They are employees, they won't have to file a tax return. Have you ever had a job in this country?

not yet

It's nothing short of treason I tell you, I bet the Qs to newry will start soon with all them greedy rich PS workers heading up on their ''BANK'' day to spend their bonus.

Zebra3

2ndcoming wrote: »

I've never had to take leave for the week or so I 've gotten off for Christmas in the past. You can't work if your place of business is closed, obviously, so it can't be considered ordinary leave when you couldn't work if you wanted to.

You've obviously never had a job in the real world then because that's what happens to the vast majority of private sector workers when their place of employment closes like that.

2ndcoming wrote: »

The rest of your post is complete and utter fiction. They don't get paid anything other than they would have been paid anyway you maniac. They. Are. On. A. Salary. What part of that don't you understand? Of course all of their salary will be recorded on their P60 and P35 remitted by Revenue in this case to Revenue. They are employees, they won't have to file a tax return. Have you ever had a job in this country?

I've had plenty of jobs in this country. Time off fully paid that doesn't go through as holidays should be taxed as benefit-in-kind. Revenue should be fully aware of that or they are totally useless at their job.

Odysseus

Zebra3 wrote: »

You think private sector workers whose place of employment shuts down for a week or so don't take the days from the employees' annual leave? :rolleyes:

The fact is that staff in the Revenue Office are getting a half day for nothing. Each member that gets this bonus should declare it on their tax retruns at the end of year, otherwise they are indulging in tax evasion.

I assume they will do this, right? :rolleyes:

Apart from the fact the they like everyone else will pay tax on their wage, exactly how are they indulging in tax evasion? It just gets worse around here, really!!!

MagicSean

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't see why they'd need leave outside of working hours. It does seem like they're being brought in and paid to party.

All this talk of people that have done much more in private sector doesn't really equate with all the small businesses that simply can't afford to do this kind of thing in the current climate. Large multinationals probably can but most Irish businesses can't.

It was actually you that brought in your own work arrangements as comparison. When I worked in the privaye sector we got a paid for meal and a bonus at christmas. It's pretty standard.

They aren't being paid anything extra. The lunch is considered a part of their work so the people who are working on the day will consider it part of their days work. The people who attend and were not supposed to be working will be given time of in lieu. So absolutely no financial cost to the state other than the four and a half hours per worker (although it's probably only three and a half because they would get a lunch hour too) who attends. So it's not an issue of affording it.

Zebra3

Odysseus wrote: »

Apart from the fact the they like everyone else will pay tax on their wage, exactly how are they indulging in tax evasion? It just gets worse around here, really!!!

They are being given a "benefit", ie extra paid leave. There is a monetary value to it and items like that get taxed.

If you don't understand it, go off and read about it.

MagicSean

Zebra3 wrote: »

You've obviously never had a job in the real world then because that's what happens to the vast majority of private sector workers when their place of employment closes like that.



I've had plenty of jobs in this country. Time off fully paid that doesn't go through as holidays should be taxed as benefit-in-kind. Revenue should be fully aware of that or they are totally useless at their job.

It's not paid time off. It's a team building exercise within working hours. It clearly states it in the article.

K-9

Zebra3 wrote: »

You think private sector workers whose place of employment shuts down for a week or so don't take the days from the employees' annual leave? :rolleyes:

The fact is that staff in the Revenue Office are getting a half day for nothing. Each member that gets this bonus should declare it on their tax retruns at the end of year, otherwise they are indulging in tax evasion.

I assume they will do this, right? :rolleyes:

Under what section would they fill this in? You really don't know anything about tax returns.

awec

Zebra3 wrote: »

They are being given a "benefit", ie extra paid leave. There is a monetary value to it and items like that get taxed.

If you don't understand it, go off and read about it.

It is taxed.

They get paid a salary. They pay tax on their salary. They will pay income tax on the money they earn while they are off on this afternoon.

Zebra3

awec wrote: »

It is taxed.

They get paid a salary. They pay tax on their salary. They will pay income tax on the money they earn while they are off on this afternoon.

They pay tax on their income which is for a set number of working hours and a set numbers of hours of paid leave each year.

Anything extra is a benefit/bonus which should be taxed accordingly.

That's how the law works.

Get back to me when the penny drops.

dvpower

Zebra3 wrote: »

They are being given a "benefit", ie extra paid leave. There is a monetary value to it and items like that get taxed.

If you don't understand it, go off and read about it.

I think the Revenue are capable of figuring out what is a taxable benefit in kind and what is not.

I find it just a little unreal that you find it possible to pontificate on tax evasion while you publicly call on others to evade their lawful taxes.

goodie2shoes

Luca Brasi wrote: »

Are we getting a bit too self righteous? Why not cancel the entire Christmas season abd chain people to their desks between 9 and 5 ?
Sure the Trocadero and all the other eateries dont need the moeny

the Trocadero, their staff and other businesses might not be paying so much in rates and taxes, if the public sector didn't waste so much of tax-payers money ('er sorry invest it in team-building exercises) (LOL) .

a bloated, inefficient and wasteful public sector is holding back recovery.

ScumLord

MagicSean wrote: »

It was actually you that brought in your own work arrangements as comparison. When I worked in the privaye sector we got a paid for meal and a bonus at christmas. It's pretty standard.

Was pretty standard, we had great parties during the boom when we could afford it, we haven't had anything like those parties in the last 4 years. Small-medium sized businesses can't afford these extravagances for the most part.

If you're right that's fair enough although I wouldn't accept that a party is a legitimate team building exercise. We'd all love those kind of team building exercises but we simply can't afford them.

Odysseus

Zebra3 wrote: »

They are being given a "benefit", ie extra paid leave. There is a monetary value to it and items like that get taxed.

If you don't understand it, go off and read about it.

I tell you what troll, because that is what you are doing. If this is the case why don't you write into the revenue, demanding that they adress this and that you are kept fully involoved in the process. Then you can come back here with the results and show us all.

Really have you nothing better to be doing. Why are you being so anal? Actually even better, what is happening in your job at Christmas?

We haven't decided what we will do in my team this year; however, I do know that about four different projects that I am in contact with thought the year will have x-mass parties. I will be going to them during my working hours, how do you find that? I will be paid to attend 4 different parties, it is an essential part of networking.

awec

Zebra3 wrote: »

They pay tax on their income which is for a set number of working hours and a set numbers of hours of paid leave each year.

Anything extra is a benefit/bonus which should be taxed accordingly.

That's how the law works.

Get back to me when the penny drops.

The afternoon in question is working hours. They are not off work. It says so in the article, if you read it.

MagicSean

Zebra3 wrote: »

They pay tax on their income which is for a set number of working hours and a set numbers of hours of paid leave each year.

Anything extra is a benefit/bonus which should be taxed accordingly.

That's how the law works.

Get back to me when the penny drops.

But it isn't extra. It's part of their working day. How are you missing that fact? Are you arguing that they are getting extra and above their salary or are you arguing that the Christmas party is not a legitimate part of their work.

ScumLord wrote: »

Was pretty standard, we had great parties during the boom when we could afford it, we haven't had anything like those parties in the last 4 years. Small-medium sized businesses can't afford these extravagances for the most part.

If you're right that's fair enough although I wouldn't accept that a party is a legitimate team building exercise. We'd all love those kind of team building exercises but we simply can't afford them.

It's legitimate enough that its done by most employers. My girlfriends company is currently in a struggling markey but it didnt stop them closing a little early bringing the staff out for a dinner last year. It obviously wasnt a major party, just a thank you dinner for all their work and a chance for the staff from different shops and departments to catch up.

goodie2shoes

ScumLord wrote: »

Was pretty standard, we had great parties during the boom when we could afford it, we haven't had anything like those parties in the last 4 years. Small-medium sized businesses can't afford these extravagances for the most part.

If you're right that's fair enough although I wouldn't accept that a party is a legitimate team building exercise. We'd all love those kind of team building exercises but we simply can't afford them.

that's exactly it.
we're broke. for everybody else cutbacks are the order of the day, but for the public sector the gravy train just keeps rolling on ......

this country is a joke.

Fr_Dougal

Odysseus wrote: »

I tell you what troll, because that is what you are doing.

Now that's lazy. Just because YOU don't agree with someone doesn't mean that they're a troll. If you really think someone is trolling then why not hit the aul "report" button.

Don't cut yourself on those paperclips now.

Furious_George

Its nice to see so many of the AH crew acting sensibly for and not jumping on the outraged bandwagon. As others have said, the surprising thing is that they have to pay for the lunch themselves. The journalist should be fired for stupidity.

I take Scumlords point that many companies will not be able to pay for Christmas parties but I wouldn't begrudge anyone a half day paid when knocking off for Xmas.

As for Fr Dougal and goodie2shoes, there is plenty in this world to be outraged about you dont need to jump on every non story just so you can give out about PS workers and pick a fight with people on the internet. Back into your caves

evillive

ok i'll bite

those crazy public servants putting money back into the private sector like that and supporting a local restaurant, with a bit of time given to them by their boss as a goodwill gesture!!! what are they thinking about??

i work as an middle level manager in the public service, for christmas we (10 - 15 bodies) will go to a local restaurant for lunch - after we have all clocked out and there is suitable cover provided for the 90minutes or so :eek: we are away from the office, and at some stage a smaller number of us will meet for a few drinks before the break also - a smaller number because generally the staff who cant attend, cant afford to stay over in Dublin, cant afford to go out for the night, have families they go home to (or maybe just because they dont like me that much). in previous years i would have footed the bill for either the food or drink (and not claimed it back) but can't afford to anymore

in the article that was published, i wouldn't be surprised if this was the only gesture by management toward the staff of time in lieu to relax and enjoy themselves once a year, some of my counterparts may take more time off to go out with their staff but i feel what i do is suitable and it makes for a nice lunch where people have a laugh and chat about their families and plans for the christmas - it just helps to keep people sweet in their jobs and is really a small concession

I appreciate it is tough out there (2 of my own family are unemployed) and am grateful for the job i have, but i get pi**ed of when the private sector rubbish us so easily about our salaries - when they don't recognise that most of us in public sector fire our salaries straight back into their shops - would love to know how many jobs in the private sector are provided on the basis of our salaries

I haven't bought the indo for years because of the bullsh*t reporting that they get up to like in this instance - for anyone who is as disgusted by this article as me - talk with your pocket and don't buy this rag anymore

ScumLord

Furious_George wrote: »

I take Scumlords point that many companies will not be able to pay for Christmas parties but I wouldn't begrudge anyone a half day paid when knocking off for Xmas.

It's not so much that I'm begrudging them having their party, there's probably a bit of that to it (I can't help it I'm Irish:pac:) but our company can't have a party because we can't afford it. We all know the state can't afford it, they're in a worse state than most struggling companies it's just that they get handed (my) money regardless of how well they're doing and then spend it on paying staff to party outside of working hours. We're all working twice as hard and getting paid less for it but the state works the same, get's paid the same and nothing changes.

Maybe it's just poor PR on the states part. Like I said previously it's not the cuts that annoy people as much as the idea that others are continueing on the boom while telling everyone else they're spending beyond their means and cutting their services.

Canis Lupus

goodie2shoes wrote: »

that's exactly it.
we're broke. for everybody else cutbacks are the order of the day, but for the public sector the gravy train just keeps rolling on ......

this country is a joke.

I believe it will be a gravy boat seeing as we're talking about dinner

goodie2shoes

Furious_George wrote: »

Its nice to see so many of the AH crew acting sensibly for and not jumping on the outraged bandwagon. As others have said, the surprising thing is that they have to pay for the lunch themselves. The journalist should be fired for stupidity.

I take Scumlords point that many companies will not be able to pay for Christmas parties but I wouldn't begrudge anyone a half day paid when knocking off for Xmas.

As for Fr Dougal and goodie2shoes, there is plenty in this world to be outraged about you dont need to jump on every non story just so you can give out about PS workers and pick a fight with people on the internet. Back into your caves

like i said way back in this thread, the figures involved are a pittance.
that's NOT the point.
the issue is the culture of waste that's endemic within the parasitic sector.
money that we do not have, and money that will have to be borrowed.
money that will come most probably (in the form of cuts &/or tax increases) from the most vulnerable in society.

Odysseus

goodie2shoes wrote: »

that's exactly it.
we're broke. for everybody else cutbacks are the order of the day, but for the public sector the gravy train just keeps rolling on ......

this country is a joke.

You call that a gravy train, it is the poorest one I seen.