How many rounds allowed in this case?

BattleCorp

I'd be grateful if somebody could shed some light on the maximum amount of rounds allowable in the following scenario.

3 guns, all .22 caliber.

All 3 guns have 1000 rounds per licence.

So, is 1000 rounds the maximum amount of rounds I can have in my safe at home as stated on one licence, or would I be allowed to have the combined amount as stated on all three licences, i.e. 3000 rounds?

Any help would be appreciated.

Sparks

The combined amount, 3000 rounds.

homerhop

then why does your license say "provided that you shall not have in your possession or carry at any one time more than 1000 cartridges or rounds thereof"

Myself and Battlecorp were trying to work this out today, so is it not a bit of a contradiction?

Cass

Have in your possession or carry at any one time to me means at home, on your person or any combination of the two, and that you cannot exceed 1,000 (in this case) rounds of ammunition for that firearm/license combo. This is for that firearm. If you have (again in this case) three firearms with the same on each it means you can have 1,000 for each totaling 3,000.

However to me it also means that you cannot have 3,000 rounds "on your person", and claim that the other 2,000 are covered by your other two licenses. IOW you cannot be out with one rifle, 3,000 rounds on you (never going to happen) and think you are within the constraints of your license. You are not.

Kinda hard to put in words what i'm trying to say, but i hope i'm getting my thoughts across. It would be the same as me going to the range with the hunting rifle, and 1,500 rounds of .308 ammo. My licenses for the .308 (have 3 of them) easily cover this amount, but only one license has enough to cover it on it's own. So if a Garda asked to see my license, checked the serial number on the license against the gun, seen the 1,500 rounds, and that they exceeded the amount on my hunting rifle license i'm in breach of the conditions of my license even though with all three licenses i can easily "cover" this amount.

Sparks

homerhop wrote: »

then why does your license say "provided that you shall not have in your possession or carry at any one time more than 1000 cartridges or rounds thereof"

Myself and Battlecorp were trying to work this out today, so is it not a bit of a contradiction?

Well, he was asking about his safe, not his pockets

But say I was stopped by a Garda and I had 2000 airgun pellets on me when my two airgun licences say 1000 pellets each - the first 1000 pellets would be covered by the first licence and the second 1000 by the second licence. It's a bit daft when they might all be the same kind of pellet, but on the other hand, I've never heard of someone making an issue out of it either - I guess the AGS do think that they have better things to be doing!

J.R.

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd be grateful if somebody could shed some light on the maximum amount of rounds allowable in the following scenario.

3 guns, all .22 caliber.

All 3 guns have 1000 rounds per licence.

So, is 1000 rounds the maximum amount of rounds I can have in my safe at home as stated on one licence, or would I be allowed to have the combined amount as stated on all three licences, i.e. 3000 rounds?

Any help would be appreciated.

I'm no expert but would imagine it's the combined amount.

If you take a slightly different scenario:

3 rifles

1000 rounds allowed on each

3 different calibres

then you'd be entitled to 3000 rounds.....1000 of each calibre

I can't see how it would make a difference if the 3 rifles are the same calibre.....no mention of restrictions if more than one gun are the same calibre......my reading of it anyway!

CJhaughey

So you could have 1000rds of .22LR
1000 rds of .22 Magnum
and 1000 rds of .220 Swift.
all .22 cal and all legal.

Hunter21

CJhaughey wrote: »

So you could have 1000rds of .22LR
1000 rds of .22 Magnum
and 1000 rds of .220 Swift.
all .22 cal and all legal.

Surely cartridge size comes into it no matter if the bullet calibre is the same if they did go into detail.

But you have just highlighted one of many "grey areas" in the Irish firearms legislation.

Cass

CJhaughey wrote: »

So you could have 1000rds of .22LR
1000 rds of .22 Magnum
and 1000 rds of .220 Swift.
all .22 cal and all legal.

No. You have a point that they are all .22 cal in bullet diameter, but while they are .22 cal they would be differentiated by rimfire or centrefire cartridges (IOW chambering), and also it is license dependent.

So if you had 1,000 of each type of ammo you mentioned, but only owned a rimfire then you are in possession of ammunition you are not licensed for.

I get your point about them all being .22 cal, but it is no different to me having 30-06, 300 WinMag, etc ammo on my .308 license. All 30cal family, but not .308.

I agree it could do with being more specific and cleared up, but try and "pull this one" under the guise of how you believe the law says it is, and see what happens. I have a friend that lost his guns for nearly two years because they found him with two empty cases for a caliber that he was not licensed for among his brass.

tommyboy26

Ezridax wrote: »

Have in your possession or carry at any one time to me means at home, on your person or any combination of the two, and that you cannot exceed 1,000 (in this case) rounds of ammunition for that firearm/license combo. This is for that firearm. If you have (again in this case) three firearms with the same on each it means you can have 1,000 for each totaling 3,000.

However to me it also means that you cannot have 3,000 rounds "on your person", and claim that the other 2,000 are covered by your other two licenses. IOW you cannot be out with one rifle, 3,000 rounds on you (never going to happen) and think you are within the constraints of your license. You are not.

Kinda hard to put in words what i'm trying to say, but i hope i'm getting my thoughts across. It would be the same as me going to the range with the hunting rifle, and 1,500 rounds of .308 ammo. My licenses for the .308 (have 3 of them) easily cover this amount, but only one license has enough to cover it on it's own. So if a Garda asked to see my license, checked the serial number on the license against the gun, seen the 1,500 rounds, and that they exceeded the amount on my hunting rifle license i'm in breach of the conditions of my license even though with all three licenses i can easily "cover" this amount.

If you were stopped with 1500 rounds and only your hunting rifle with you i would think you would be fine as you are covered by all your licences. take this senario:

You go to your RFD to buy ammo for your three .22lr and buy 3000 rounds as your getting a bulk buy price. On your way home you get stopped by the garda with the ammo and no firearm with you.

Cass

tommyboy26 wrote: »

You go to your RFD to buy ammo for your three .22lr and buy 3000 rounds as your getting a bulk buy price. On your way home you get stopped by the garda with the ammo and no firearm with you.

That would be fine. Also assuming you don't have so much as one round at home you are still within the conditions of your licenses. Also when buying ammo you must produce each license. So if you put all 3,000 down to one license because they are all .22lr then you are in breach of the conditions of your license, and the dealer, technically, should not be selling them/putting them all down to one license.

However if you bought 3,000 rounds, and had so much as one round on you or at home, etc. then you are in breach of the conditions of your license.

The situation is tricky in that not as many people as you would think have two or more licenses for the same caliber firearms. .22lr, and 12g would be the most common two. So chances of you being done for excessive ammo amounts when you hold multiple licenses for the same caliber are slim. Not impossible, but slim.

I've always tried to have "too much" ammo on my licenses. IOW if i needed 100 go for 300. If i need 500 go for 1,000. This way no matter how many rounds i have i am always within the conditions of the license.

A thing to be mindful of too is that so far we have only spoken of ammo/rounds as live ones. Don't forget that your empties count as live rounds too. So if i bought ammo, and that ammo combined with the amount of brass i have at home/on my person exceeded the limit on my license this too is a breach of your license.

BattleCorp

Ezridax wrote: »

A thing to be mindful of too is that so far we have only spoken of ammo/rounds as live ones. Don't forget that your empties count as live rounds too. So if i bought ammo, and that ammo combined with the amount of brass i have at home/on my person exceeded the limit on my license this too is a breach of your license.

Kind of harsh that empties count as live rounds. In order to keep the range clean after myself, I'd often bring home my empties and throw them in the bin (which mightn't be emptied for ages). I guess that won't be happening in future.

That scenario mentioned earlier about someone losing their guns for two years over two empty shells seems to me to be.......... I won't say what I really think but petty doesn't quite cover it.

Cavan duck buster

But now i have to ask, do the Gardi really in force this or any one had any trouble with them by over exceeding their limit???

Witcher

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

But now i have to ask, do the Gardi really in force this or any one had any trouble with them by over exceeding their limit???

Read Ezridax's post above, his friend lost his guns for 2 years because he had 2 pieces of brass..so you can safely bet that if you have live ammunition that exceeds your limit you're in serious sh1t if the guards find them.

Cass

I've have heard off 2 people in the last 12 months being charged with breaching the conditions of their license by having more ammo than they were permitted. One that i know of was definitely charged, his license revoked (all of them) and as a result he lost his firearms.

It does, and can happen. Like a lot of the laws in this country people believe that as the Gardaí do not enforce some strongly or because something has been "this way" for so long that it is legal or okay. It's not.

There is a lot of advice from plenty of people on Boards, and the majority might seem like scare mongering. However the reason for mentioning it is that while prosecution for so called minor offences is low to rare it does happen. What a person does with that information is up to them, but remember that ignorance is no excuse under the law so the "i didn't know" won't fly.

Half-cocked

Probably worth mentioning that if you get rid of a gun and don't have any others of the same calibre, you could be in hot water over any loose rounds or empties you don't get rid of with the gun. Sounds paranoid, but you only have to look at some of the examples above where the law has been enforced to the letter. And wasn't there an attempted prosecution over one of those bullet display boards a while back?

Cass

Half-cocked wrote: »

Probably worth mentioning that if you get rid of a gun and don't have any others of the same calibre, you could be in hot water over any loose rounds or empties you don't get rid of with the gun.

Very true. +1

When i sold the 6.5x55 i found a load of empty brass. Like someone said above i have a habit of collecting it after i shoot on the range. Found a scrap yard that would take it, and brought it there.

IRLConor

BattleCorp wrote: »

Kind of harsh that empties count as live rounds. In order to keep the range clean after myself, I'd often bring home my empties and throw them in the bin (which mightn't be emptied for ages). I guess that won't be happening in future.

At least two of the ranges I shoot at sell the brass for recycling. Apart from the convenience of them taking care of my empties I also see leaving the brass as a way to help contribute in a small way to the range running costs.

juice1304

It is such a stupid law imposed by petty bigoted idiots.
I think it is so funny i can hang an antique firearm on my wall still functional and capable of being fired. Even if it is only flintlocks etc.. And yet if i have a casing for a cartridge for a caliber i don't own i can be convicted of a crime. The casing might mean something to the person like their first deer etc.. There is nothing criminal about it. And i have'nt heard of the half witted crooks in this country reloading because it would be blasted all over the news criminal ammunition factory found blaa blaa blaa, It is so petty.