Someone needs to be fired

tails_naf

I can't believe this has happened again.

There has been a big crash on the way into Cork, at least one car is destroyed, and I don't know yet if there has been loss of life. Reports are that the road is very slippery in several patches.

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads.

On the main motorway between Ireland's two biggest cities, the LAs are unable to read the weather/calendar in order to send the trucks out. So we bought all the Salt a few years ago after the big freeze, and now don't even spread it.

It absolutely sickens me to think about those involved in a crash this bad and what this may mean for the rest of their lives - and it's because of bureaucracy, ineptness, and never ever having consequences no matter how poorly you perform at your job. The thread title says it all.

antodeco

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the M7/M9 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put out massive fans to blow it all away.

They cant grit every road, but alot of irish drivers cant change their driving styles based on the weather. "Ill drive up your arse whether its day or night, dry or wet, speed limit or not".

Valetta

tails_naf wrote: »

I can't believe this has happened again.

There has been a big crash on the way into Cork, at least one car is destroyed, and I don't know yet if there has been loss of life. Reports are that the road is very slippery in several patches.

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads.

On the main motorway between Ireland's two biggest cities, the LAs are unable to read the weather/calendar in order to send the trucks out. So we bought all the Salt a few years ago after the big freeze, and now don't even spread it.

It absolutely sickens me to think about those involved in a crash this bad and what this may mean for the rest of their lives - and it's because of bureaucracy, ineptness, and never ever having consequences no matter how poorly you perform at your job. The thread title says it all.

Or could it be because people were driving too fast/inappropriately for the prevailing conditions?

How come it's always someone else's fault?

anncoates

tails_naf wrote: »

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads + shit drivers

Fixed

knucklehead6

antodeco wrote: »

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the N4 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put oput massive fans to blow it all away.

They cant grit every road, but alot of irish drivers cant change their driving styles based on the weather. "Ill drive up your arse whether its day or night, dry or wet, speed limit or not".

That's the problem right there.

Driver education, hand in hand with PROPER enforcement of the law.
2 things that are sadly lacking in this country

kerry4sam

I hope all involved in this crash are okay, or will pull through in time if currently in a serious condition.

SteelyDanJalapeno

antodeco wrote: »

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the N4 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put oput massive fans to blow it all away.

They cant grit every road, but alot of irish drivers cant change their driving styles based on the weather. "Ill drive up your arse whether its day or night, dry or wet, speed limit or not".

knucklehead6 wrote: »

That's the problem right there.

Driver education, hand in hand with PROPER enforcement of the law.
2 things that are sadly lacking in this country

Neither of you know that is anything to do with this crash, we know for sure that the road conditions were very poor this morning, especially around Cork, I find it confusing as to why you would jump to a different conclusion for the accident by assuming someone was driving dangerously and somebody could never make a mistake in very bad( which were forecast-ed) untreated conditions.

kneemos

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Neither of you know that is anything to do with this crash, we know for sure that the road conditions were very poor this morning, especially around Cork, I find it confusing as to why you would jump to a different conclusion for the accident by assuming someone was driving dangerously and somebody could never make a mistake in very bad( which were forecast-ed) untreated conditions.

Did the council say the road was untreated?

will.i.am

The crashes have being cleared road is open again, there a still delays tough.
Check the AA website.
The crashes in March 2007 were on the M7 and M9 Motorways in Kildare I think there was on fatality and those crashes happend for one reason only because people didn't slow down and switch on there fog lights!

SteelyDanJalapeno

kneemos wrote: »

Did the council say the road was untreated?

Don't know have not been in contact with them, the radio on the other hand did....

antodeco

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Neither of you know that is anything to do with this crash, we know for sure that the road conditions were very poor this morning, especially around Cork, I find it confusing as to why you would jump to a different conclusion for the accident by assuming someone was driving dangerously and somebody could never make a mistake in very bad( which were forecast-ed) untreated conditions.

For the EXACT same reason that someone would jump to blame the government perhaps? Its a valid possibility. If the roads were THAT bad, yes, there is some onus on the Government to make sure its safe to drive. However, there is a higher onus on the drivers to drive safely and leave appropraite distance/drive at the approriate speed. If the crash is as bad as people are saying, well then obviously there was inappropriate speed. I know, personally, if the roads are "lethal from ice" I will drive at a speed relevant to it. If I lose control at the appropriate speed, the results will be alot worse than a "severe" crash.

tails_naf

antodeco wrote: »

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the N4 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put oput massive fans to blow it all away.

They cant grit every road, but alot of irish drivers cant change their driving styles based on the weather. "Ill drive up your arse whether its day or night, dry or wet, speed limit or not".

I was talking specifically about ice, for which there is a known solution.

Also, this is not any road, it is the main M7/N7 road, with a huge volume of traffic. It should be first the be gritted. The fact it was not leaves little hope that any road in the region was gritted last night.

Also, poor driving may be a factor - but I drive this section every day, as do tens of thousands of people without incident. When gritted there are also no incidents. When not gritted, the ice is patchy, and even the best driver can be caught out by a sudden patch of ice.

I still assert that the road should have been gritted.

will.i.am

If the crash happened on the M8 on the tolled section of the motorway it is the the toll company Direct Route who is in charge of gritting the motorway and not the goverement!

ejmaztec

I can imagine the smug feckers who drive everywhere at 60kph all the year round having superior looks on their faces when they hear about this.

antodeco

tails_naf wrote: »

Also, poor driving may be a factor - but I drive this section every day, as do tens of thousands of people without incident. When gritted there are also no incidents. When not gritted, the ice is patchy, and even the best driver can be caught out by a sudden patch of ice.

And this may be part of the issue. If people drive the same road every day, the same way, for a long time, they become accustomed to driving the same way. So, when the road conditions change (read: ice) they are not prepared for it. I am not having a go at every driver, but what I am saying, is that drivers dont drive appropriately all the time, and as a result get caught out. As knucklehead said, there is an education issue with drivers.

tails_naf wrote: »

I still assert that the road should have been gritted.

Oh, I agree 100%. However, just because it wasnt, doesnt mean that the drivers were not in anyway at fault, nor that the LA's were.

knucklehead6

tails_naf wrote: »

I was talking specifically about ice, for which there is a known solution.

Also, this is not any road, it is the main M7/N7 road, with a huge volume of traffic. It should be first the be gritted. The fact it was not leaves little hope that any road in the region was gritted last night.

Also, poor driving may be a factor - but I drive this section every day, as do tens of thousands of people without incident. When gritted there are also no incidents. When not gritted, the ice is patchy, and even the best driver can be caught out by a sudden patch of ice.

I still assert that the road should have been gritted.

No one is saying that the road should not have been gritted. BUT it is each drivers responsibility to drive s.afely, and to give consideration for the prevailing conditions

kneemos

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Don't know have not been in contact with them, the radio on the other hand did....

Even "IF" the road was untreated how do you know it caused the accident?

--Kaiser--

antodeco wrote: »

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the M7/M9 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put out massive fans to blow it all away.

LOL.

But seriously, couldn't agree more. If it's cold, the road could be frosty, so slow the **** down and be more careful. Simples

tails_naf

antodeco wrote: »

If the crash is as bad as people are saying, well then obviously there was inappropriate speed. I know, personally, if the roads are "lethal from ice" I will drive at a speed relevant to it. If I lose control at the appropriate speed, the results will be alot worse than a "severe" crash.

So are you saying that when it is < 2C outside you always drive 10mph on every stretch of road in the country, be it back-road or motorway?

If not, then perhaps you are driving an an inappropriate speed - because you could encounter a patch of ice at any time.

There is an expectation of the roads to be maintained. If we cannot have this expectation, then the M50, M1, M7/8 and all other main arteries would require everyone to drive at 10mph for the entire trip whenever it is cold, in case they hit a patch of ice.

So given that I find it impossible to put the blame solely on the driver in this case.

tails_naf

will.i.am wrote: »

If the crash happened on the M8 on the tolled section of the motorway it is the the toll company Direct Route who is in charge of gritting the motorway and not the goverement!

I believe it happens after the road becomes the N7 again - but I agree, whomever is responsible (Toll company or LS) for that section needs to be taken to task over this - I don't personally care who it is, I just want to see responsibility and accountability.

Not wanting to sound glib and disrespectful to the families of people who lost their lives, I think that personal responsibility has a big role to play in regards to road safety.

People need to educate themselves better on how to identify and deal with dangerous road conditions.

bobbysands81

tails_naf wrote: »

I can't believe this has happened again.

There has been a big crash on the way into Cork, at least one car is destroyed, and I don't know yet if there has been loss of life. Reports are that the road is very slippery in several patches.

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads.

On the main motorway between Ireland's two biggest cities, the LAs are unable to read the weather/calendar in order to send the trucks out. So we bought all the Salt a few years ago after the big freeze, and now don't even spread it.

It absolutely sickens me to think about those involved in a crash this bad and what this may mean for the rest of their lives - and it's because of bureaucracy, ineptness, and never ever having consequences no matter how poorly you perform at your job. The thread title says it all.

We need to get Germany's permission before we start gritting roads.

antodeco

tails_naf wrote: »

So are you saying that when it is < 2C outside you always drive 10mph on every stretch of road in the country, be it back-road or motorway?

If not, then perhaps you are driving an an inappropriate speed - because you could encounter a patch of ice at any time.

No, but you seem to have skipped over the part of keeping an "appropriate distance" that I also mentioned. If the weather is poor, and you are going to drive at a normal speed, then you have to keep a greater distance. Ill admit that I dont drive everywhere at 10MPH if below 2c, but I dont drive on top of people more importantly.

tails_naf wrote: »

There is an expectation of the roads to be maintained. If we cannot have this expectation, then the M50, M1, M7/8 and all other main arteries would require everyone to drive at 10mph for the entire trip whenever it is cold, in case they hit a patch of ice.

So given that I find it impossible to put the blame solely on the driver in this case.

Can you clarify where you have read that there was ice on the road and that because it was not gritted it caused the crash?

Valetta

tails_naf wrote: »

So are you saying that when it is < 2C outside you always drive 10mph on every stretch of road in the country, be it back-road or motorway?

If not, then perhaps you are driving an an inappropriate speed - because you could encounter a patch of ice at any time.

There is an expectation of the roads to be maintained. If we cannot have this expectation, then the M50, M1, M7/8 and all other main arteries would require everyone to drive at 10mph for the entire trip whenever it is cold, in case they hit a patch of ice.

So given that I find it impossible to put the blame solely on the driver in this case.

You are now exagerating for effect, and not helping your argument at all.

Nobody here said you should drive at 10 mph on every stretch of road in the country.

It is about adjusting your driving to the prevailing conditions.

Also, nobody is putting the blame solely on the driver, as nobody knows exactly what happened.

the groutch

if you start gritting the roads in early november on the premise that it MIGHT be a bit icy the next morning, you'll run out of grit/salt before any snow even hits.
and then the OP would be the first then to complain about the lack of salt for the roads.

antodeco

the groutch wrote: »

if you start gritting the roads in early november on the premise that it MIGHT be a bit icy the next morning, you'll run out of grit/salt before any snow even hits.
and then the OP would be the first then to complain about the lack of salt for the roads.

Thats why I eat McDonalds more during the winter months. "Eh, can I get a bit more salt for my meal please, thanks".

McDonalds - Gritting my path since 2003

kneemos

tails_naf wrote: »

I believe it happens after the road becomes the N7 again - but I agree, whomever is responsible (Toll company or LS) for that section needs to be taken to task over this - I don't personally care who it is, I just want to see responsibility and accountability.

Why are jumping on one possible cause of the crash and accusing people of being negligent?

anncoates

Edz87 wrote: »

Not wanting to sound glib and disrespectful to the families of people who lost their lives, I think that personal responsibility has a big role to play in regards to road safety.
.

Exactly.

Drive on any major road in the country and hundreds are people are driving up the arse of the car in front. Like you even need icy conditions to plough into somebody ahead of you if they have to brake.

If it's icy, you take care, observe a greater distance and drive appropriately for icy conditions but that may as well be rocket science for half the morons in this country that drive like idiots and then prefer to blame the government for everything and take no responsibility for their own actions.

That's a general - but completely valid - point though. Dunno what happened in this exact case.

Ellis Dee

If anyone is to be fired, surely it's Gaybo!:rolleyes:

Hasn't the aul tosser been waffling on about road safety for years now, and yet there are still thousands of eejits behind the wheel all over the country?

That's what I call failure.:D:D

will.i.am

Ellis Dee wrote: »

If anyone is to be fired, surely it's Gaybo!:rolleyes:

Hasn't the aul tosser been waffling on about road safety for years now, and yet there are still thousands of eejits behind the wheel all over the country?

That's what I call failure.:D:D

I don't love the man but to be fair since he's got the job. Road deaths have been falling.

Apanachi

Any mention of what kind of tyres the driver(s) had on the cars?

So many people in Ireland drive around with Summer tyres in the Winter and that can make a big difference