Someone needs to be fired

tails_naf

I can't believe this has happened again.

There has been a big crash on the way into Cork, at least one car is destroyed, and I don't know yet if there has been loss of life. Reports are that the road is very slippery in several patches.

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads.

On the main motorway between Ireland's two biggest cities, the LAs are unable to read the weather/calendar in order to send the trucks out. So we bought all the Salt a few years ago after the big freeze, and now don't even spread it.

It absolutely sickens me to think about those involved in a crash this bad and what this may mean for the rest of their lives - and it's because of bureaucracy, ineptness, and never ever having consequences no matter how poorly you perform at your job. The thread title says it all.

antodeco

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the M7/M9 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put out massive fans to blow it all away.

They cant grit every road, but alot of irish drivers cant change their driving styles based on the weather. "Ill drive up your arse whether its day or night, dry or wet, speed limit or not".

Valetta

tails_naf wrote: »

I can't believe this has happened again.

There has been a big crash on the way into Cork, at least one car is destroyed, and I don't know yet if there has been loss of life. Reports are that the road is very slippery in several patches.

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads.

On the main motorway between Ireland's two biggest cities, the LAs are unable to read the weather/calendar in order to send the trucks out. So we bought all the Salt a few years ago after the big freeze, and now don't even spread it.

It absolutely sickens me to think about those involved in a crash this bad and what this may mean for the rest of their lives - and it's because of bureaucracy, ineptness, and never ever having consequences no matter how poorly you perform at your job. The thread title says it all.

Or could it be because people were driving too fast/inappropriately for the prevailing conditions?

How come it's always someone else's fault?

anncoates

tails_naf wrote: »

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads + shit drivers

Fixed

knucklehead6

antodeco wrote: »

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the N4 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put oput massive fans to blow it all away.

They cant grit every road, but alot of irish drivers cant change their driving styles based on the weather. "Ill drive up your arse whether its day or night, dry or wet, speed limit or not".

That's the problem right there.

Driver education, hand in hand with PROPER enforcement of the law.
2 things that are sadly lacking in this country

kerry4sam

I hope all involved in this crash are okay, or will pull through in time if currently in a serious condition.

SteelyDanJalapeno

antodeco wrote: »

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the N4 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put oput massive fans to blow it all away.

They cant grit every road, but alot of irish drivers cant change their driving styles based on the weather. "Ill drive up your arse whether its day or night, dry or wet, speed limit or not".

knucklehead6 wrote: »

That's the problem right there.

Driver education, hand in hand with PROPER enforcement of the law.
2 things that are sadly lacking in this country

Neither of you know that is anything to do with this crash, we know for sure that the road conditions were very poor this morning, especially around Cork, I find it confusing as to why you would jump to a different conclusion for the accident by assuming someone was driving dangerously and somebody could never make a mistake in very bad( which were forecast-ed) untreated conditions.

kneemos

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Neither of you know that is anything to do with this crash, we know for sure that the road conditions were very poor this morning, especially around Cork, I find it confusing as to why you would jump to a different conclusion for the accident by assuming someone was driving dangerously and somebody could never make a mistake in very bad( which were forecast-ed) untreated conditions.

Did the council say the road was untreated?

will.i.am

The crashes have being cleared road is open again, there a still delays tough.
Check the AA website.
The crashes in March 2007 were on the M7 and M9 Motorways in Kildare I think there was on fatality and those crashes happend for one reason only because people didn't slow down and switch on there fog lights!

SteelyDanJalapeno

kneemos wrote: »

Did the council say the road was untreated?

Don't know have not been in contact with them, the radio on the other hand did....

antodeco

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Neither of you know that is anything to do with this crash, we know for sure that the road conditions were very poor this morning, especially around Cork, I find it confusing as to why you would jump to a different conclusion for the accident by assuming someone was driving dangerously and somebody could never make a mistake in very bad( which were forecast-ed) untreated conditions.

For the EXACT same reason that someone would jump to blame the government perhaps? Its a valid possibility. If the roads were THAT bad, yes, there is some onus on the Government to make sure its safe to drive. However, there is a higher onus on the drivers to drive safely and leave appropraite distance/drive at the approriate speed. If the crash is as bad as people are saying, well then obviously there was inappropriate speed. I know, personally, if the roads are "lethal from ice" I will drive at a speed relevant to it. If I lose control at the appropriate speed, the results will be alot worse than a "severe" crash.

tails_naf

antodeco wrote: »

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the N4 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put oput massive fans to blow it all away.

They cant grit every road, but alot of irish drivers cant change their driving styles based on the weather. "Ill drive up your arse whether its day or night, dry or wet, speed limit or not".

I was talking specifically about ice, for which there is a known solution.

Also, this is not any road, it is the main M7/N7 road, with a huge volume of traffic. It should be first the be gritted. The fact it was not leaves little hope that any road in the region was gritted last night.

Also, poor driving may be a factor - but I drive this section every day, as do tens of thousands of people without incident. When gritted there are also no incidents. When not gritted, the ice is patchy, and even the best driver can be caught out by a sudden patch of ice.

I still assert that the road should have been gritted.

will.i.am

If the crash happened on the M8 on the tolled section of the motorway it is the the toll company Direct Route who is in charge of gritting the motorway and not the goverement!

ejmaztec

I can imagine the smug feckers who drive everywhere at 60kph all the year round having superior looks on their faces when they hear about this.

antodeco

tails_naf wrote: »

Also, poor driving may be a factor - but I drive this section every day, as do tens of thousands of people without incident. When gritted there are also no incidents. When not gritted, the ice is patchy, and even the best driver can be caught out by a sudden patch of ice.

And this may be part of the issue. If people drive the same road every day, the same way, for a long time, they become accustomed to driving the same way. So, when the road conditions change (read: ice) they are not prepared for it. I am not having a go at every driver, but what I am saying, is that drivers dont drive appropriately all the time, and as a result get caught out. As knucklehead said, there is an education issue with drivers.

tails_naf wrote: »

I still assert that the road should have been gritted.

Oh, I agree 100%. However, just because it wasnt, doesnt mean that the drivers were not in anyway at fault, nor that the LA's were.

knucklehead6

tails_naf wrote: »

I was talking specifically about ice, for which there is a known solution.

Also, this is not any road, it is the main M7/N7 road, with a huge volume of traffic. It should be first the be gritted. The fact it was not leaves little hope that any road in the region was gritted last night.

Also, poor driving may be a factor - but I drive this section every day, as do tens of thousands of people without incident. When gritted there are also no incidents. When not gritted, the ice is patchy, and even the best driver can be caught out by a sudden patch of ice.

I still assert that the road should have been gritted.

No one is saying that the road should not have been gritted. BUT it is each drivers responsibility to drive s.afely, and to give consideration for the prevailing conditions

kneemos

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Don't know have not been in contact with them, the radio on the other hand did....

Even "IF" the road was untreated how do you know it caused the accident?

--Kaiser--

antodeco wrote: »

Its also down to peoples inability to drive in different weather. Remember the really heavy fog on the M7/M9 a few years ago, where there was something like 70 crashes? I suppose the government should have put out massive fans to blow it all away.

LOL.

But seriously, couldn't agree more. If it's cold, the road could be frosty, so slow the **** down and be more careful. Simples

tails_naf

antodeco wrote: »

If the crash is as bad as people are saying, well then obviously there was inappropriate speed. I know, personally, if the roads are "lethal from ice" I will drive at a speed relevant to it. If I lose control at the appropriate speed, the results will be alot worse than a "severe" crash.

So are you saying that when it is < 2C outside you always drive 10mph on every stretch of road in the country, be it back-road or motorway?

If not, then perhaps you are driving an an inappropriate speed - because you could encounter a patch of ice at any time.

There is an expectation of the roads to be maintained. If we cannot have this expectation, then the M50, M1, M7/8 and all other main arteries would require everyone to drive at 10mph for the entire trip whenever it is cold, in case they hit a patch of ice.

So given that I find it impossible to put the blame solely on the driver in this case.

tails_naf

will.i.am wrote: »

If the crash happened on the M8 on the tolled section of the motorway it is the the toll company Direct Route who is in charge of gritting the motorway and not the goverement!

I believe it happens after the road becomes the N7 again - but I agree, whomever is responsible (Toll company or LS) for that section needs to be taken to task over this - I don't personally care who it is, I just want to see responsibility and accountability.

Not wanting to sound glib and disrespectful to the families of people who lost their lives, I think that personal responsibility has a big role to play in regards to road safety.

People need to educate themselves better on how to identify and deal with dangerous road conditions.

bobbysands81

tails_naf wrote: »

I can't believe this has happened again.

There has been a big crash on the way into Cork, at least one car is destroyed, and I don't know yet if there has been loss of life. Reports are that the road is very slippery in several patches.

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads.

On the main motorway between Ireland's two biggest cities, the LAs are unable to read the weather/calendar in order to send the trucks out. So we bought all the Salt a few years ago after the big freeze, and now don't even spread it.

It absolutely sickens me to think about those involved in a crash this bad and what this may mean for the rest of their lives - and it's because of bureaucracy, ineptness, and never ever having consequences no matter how poorly you perform at your job. The thread title says it all.

We need to get Germany's permission before we start gritting roads.

antodeco

tails_naf wrote: »

So are you saying that when it is < 2C outside you always drive 10mph on every stretch of road in the country, be it back-road or motorway?

If not, then perhaps you are driving an an inappropriate speed - because you could encounter a patch of ice at any time.

No, but you seem to have skipped over the part of keeping an "appropriate distance" that I also mentioned. If the weather is poor, and you are going to drive at a normal speed, then you have to keep a greater distance. Ill admit that I dont drive everywhere at 10MPH if below 2c, but I dont drive on top of people more importantly.

tails_naf wrote: »

There is an expectation of the roads to be maintained. If we cannot have this expectation, then the M50, M1, M7/8 and all other main arteries would require everyone to drive at 10mph for the entire trip whenever it is cold, in case they hit a patch of ice.

So given that I find it impossible to put the blame solely on the driver in this case.

Can you clarify where you have read that there was ice on the road and that because it was not gritted it caused the crash?

Valetta

tails_naf wrote: »

So are you saying that when it is < 2C outside you always drive 10mph on every stretch of road in the country, be it back-road or motorway?

If not, then perhaps you are driving an an inappropriate speed - because you could encounter a patch of ice at any time.

There is an expectation of the roads to be maintained. If we cannot have this expectation, then the M50, M1, M7/8 and all other main arteries would require everyone to drive at 10mph for the entire trip whenever it is cold, in case they hit a patch of ice.

So given that I find it impossible to put the blame solely on the driver in this case.

You are now exagerating for effect, and not helping your argument at all.

Nobody here said you should drive at 10 mph on every stretch of road in the country.

It is about adjusting your driving to the prevailing conditions.

Also, nobody is putting the blame solely on the driver, as nobody knows exactly what happened.

the groutch

if you start gritting the roads in early november on the premise that it MIGHT be a bit icy the next morning, you'll run out of grit/salt before any snow even hits.
and then the OP would be the first then to complain about the lack of salt for the roads.

antodeco

the groutch wrote: »

if you start gritting the roads in early november on the premise that it MIGHT be a bit icy the next morning, you'll run out of grit/salt before any snow even hits.
and then the OP would be the first then to complain about the lack of salt for the roads.

Thats why I eat McDonalds more during the winter months. "Eh, can I get a bit more salt for my meal please, thanks".

McDonalds - Gritting my path since 2003

kneemos

tails_naf wrote: »

I believe it happens after the road becomes the N7 again - but I agree, whomever is responsible (Toll company or LS) for that section needs to be taken to task over this - I don't personally care who it is, I just want to see responsibility and accountability.

Why are jumping on one possible cause of the crash and accusing people of being negligent?

anncoates

Edz87 wrote: »

Not wanting to sound glib and disrespectful to the families of people who lost their lives, I think that personal responsibility has a big role to play in regards to road safety.
.

Exactly.

Drive on any major road in the country and hundreds are people are driving up the arse of the car in front. Like you even need icy conditions to plough into somebody ahead of you if they have to brake.

If it's icy, you take care, observe a greater distance and drive appropriately for icy conditions but that may as well be rocket science for half the morons in this country that drive like idiots and then prefer to blame the government for everything and take no responsibility for their own actions.

That's a general - but completely valid - point though. Dunno what happened in this exact case.

Ellis Dee

If anyone is to be fired, surely it's Gaybo!:rolleyes:

Hasn't the aul tosser been waffling on about road safety for years now, and yet there are still thousands of eejits behind the wheel all over the country?

That's what I call failure.:D:D

will.i.am

Ellis Dee wrote: »

If anyone is to be fired, surely it's Gaybo!:rolleyes:

Hasn't the aul tosser been waffling on about road safety for years now, and yet there are still thousands of eejits behind the wheel all over the country?

That's what I call failure.:D:D

I don't love the man but to be fair since he's got the job. Road deaths have been falling.

Apanachi

Any mention of what kind of tyres the driver(s) had on the cars?

So many people in Ireland drive around with Summer tyres in the Winter and that can make a big difference

anncoates

Ellis Dee wrote: »

If anyone is to be fired, surely it's Gaybo!:rolleyes:

Hasn't the aul tosser been waffling on about road safety for years now, and yet there are still thousands of eejits behind the wheel all over the country?

That's what I call failure.:D:D

Do you want the guy to get behind the wheel and drive properly for you?

TwoShedsJackson

will.i.am wrote: »

The crashes in March 2007 were on the M7 and M9 Motorways in Kildare I think there was on fatality and those crashes happend for one reason only because people didn't slow down and switch on there fog lights!

These same gob****es will probably be the ones who usually drive around with the fog lights on the rest of the year around.

Thought process: 'oh no one can see how cool my fog lights look in this fog, I'll just switch those off'.

Franticfrank

So many people in Ireland drive around with Summer tyres in the Winter and that can make a big difference

I agree with you there on some level. Still, if ice is involved, it won't make a difference what tyre you're driving on. People need to learn to slow down and drive responsibly when it gets dangerous on the roads.

It BeeMee

Apanachi wrote: »

Any mention of what kind of tyres the driver(s) had on the cars?

So many people in Ireland drive around with Summer tyres in the Winter and that can make a big difference

I doubt if many people changed their tyres for the first frosty night of the year.

antodeco

They should replace all airbags with a massive spike. If you crash, it shoots and and impails you. People will driver more cautiously then!

anncoates

antodeco wrote: »

They should replace all airbags with a massive spike. If you crash, it shoots and and impails you. People will driver more cautiously then!

Unfortunately that would result in a massive spike in road fatalities.

knucklehead6

anncoates wrote: »

Unfortunately that would result in a massive spike in road fatalities.

BA-DUM!!!

i'm her agent lads, she's here all week!!

HeyThereDeliah

Same old story blame everyone but the person responsible, any driver that does not know how to drive to suit the road conditions should not be driving full stop.

What is the deal with so many drivers not switching on their lights in the evening, are they stupid ?


I'm not sure if many drivers here change to winter tyres. I don't myself and I know only one person who does.

gobnaitolunacy

The winters we have here don't really justify winter tyres.

Plus, if you're a rubbish driver, no tyre is going to prevent you from getting into trouble.

Madam_X

tails_naf wrote: »

The reason? ICE + ungritted roads.

On the main motorway between Ireland's two biggest cities, the LAs are unable to read the weather/calendar in order to send the trucks out. So we bought all the Salt a few years ago after the big freeze, and now don't even spread it.

It absolutely sickens me to think about those involved in a crash this bad and what this may mean for the rest of their lives - and it's because of bureaucracy, ineptness, and never ever having consequences no matter how poorly you perform at your job. The thread title says it all.

Someone needs to be fired? Lol. Who?

Maybe the salt for the freezes two and three years ago is used up?

There is salt/grit spread during a prolonged spell of severe and dodgy weather - a patch of road in one spot isn't this. Was there warning that this part of County Cork would be risky?

bleg

Irish drivers are clueless and have very little awareness or regard for other people on the road, especially motorways and dual carriageways.

More emphasis should be placed on driving on these roads in the drivers test.

gallag

I sort of agree, the gritters have been out the last few nights up north. A lot of people in autopilot can be caught out easley by a patch of ice early in the morning and there is no excuse for ice on a major road. It's not like you guys don't pay for road tax.

gallag

bleg wrote: »

Irish drivers are clueless and have very little awareness or regard for other people on the road, especially motorways and dual carriageways.

More emphasis should be placed on driving on these roads in the drivers test.

It's nth just Irish drivers. Even the most experienced driver can be caught out by a surprise patch of ice on a major road. It should be gritted. You pay plenty for a safe road.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Every driver on Irish roads should be made open a boards.ie account, then they'll all be perfect drivers and no one will ever crash again.

antodeco

Maleah Yellow Raceway wrote: »

Every driver on Irish roads should be made open a boards.ie account, then they'll all be perfect drivers and no one will ever crash again.

If they do at least they will find out about driving/middle/overtaking lanes and fog lights It'd be a start :pac:

knucklehead6

Maleah Yellow Raceway wrote: »

Every driver on Irish roads should be made open a boards.ie account, then they'll all be perfect drivers and no one will ever crash again.

Some of the drivers are so fkn dumb that they'd be posting about how good a driver they are..... while sitting in the middle lane of a 3 lane motorway, doing 119 Kph, with fog lights (front and rear) blazing!

Lumbo

Isn't the NRA (not the gun lobby) responsible for gritting of motorways. Local Authorities only grit local roads.

kneemos

Lumbo wrote: »

Isn't the NRA (not the gun lobby) responsible for gritting of motorways. Local Authorities only grit local roads.

Sounds inefficent,might be right.

antodeco

Lumbo wrote: »

Isn't the NRA (not the gun lobby) responsible for gritting of motorways. Local Authorities only grit local roads.

Both probably think its each other!

ScumLord

antodeco wrote: »

For the EXACT same reason that someone would jump to blame the government perhaps? Its a valid possibility. If the roads were THAT bad, yes, there is some onus on the Government to make sure its safe to drive. However, there is a higher onus on the drivers to drive safely and leave appropraite distance/drive at the approriate speed.

While I agree with you it would be an absolute certainty someones going to drive down the road in an unsafe manner for the conditions. In the UK they're out if there's a possibility of ice and not only grit but put up warnings to the drivers.

The Brits really look after their road network, just the difference in signage goes to show they're thinking about the possibilities of what will happen on their roads. Ireland always does the bare minimum and then we shrug our shoulders when the inevitable happens blaming anything else and pushing blame around so they don't even have to make improvements for the next time it happens.

We need a better quality of driver in this country that's for sure but until then the government has to plan for the bad ones.