What the hell is wrong with Guinness drinkers?

the beer revolu

Was in The Abbot's, Cork, last night.
There was a guy down from Dublin on a job in my company.
He was a "Guinness man".
When told there was no Guinness he had a reaction that surprised me.
Rather than even taste any stout/porter alternatives, he straight away went for a weissbier. Wouldn't even try another black beer!
We did make him taste Dark Arts but his mind was made up long before it passed his lips - he was never going to drink it.
The power of marketing and brand loyalty never ceases to amaze me!

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

the beer revolu wrote: »

Was in The Abbot's, Cork, last night.
There was a guy down from Dublin on a job in my company.
He was a "Guinness man".
When told there was no Guinness he had a reaction that surprised me.
Rather than even taste any stout/porter alternatives, he straight away went for a weissbier. Wouldn't even try another black beer!
We did make him taste Dark Arts but his mind was made up long before it passed his lips - he was never going to drink it.
The power of marketing and brand loyalty never ceases to amaze me!

I'd be a "Guinness man" during the winter months, but if I was in a pub that didn't serve it, I'd drink Murphy's or Dark Arts or whatever was going.

People who are that brandloyal are letting themselves miss out. Good luck to them.

Zebra3

I used a bit like that myself when it came to stout.

Barely touch Guinness nowadays.

Give me Dark Arts, and if not available, O'Hara's.

Technocentral

the beer revolu wrote: »

Was in The Abbot's, Cork, last night.
There was a guy down from Dublin on a job in my company.
He was a "Guinness man".
When told there was no Guinness he had a reaction that surprised me.
Rather than even taste any stout/porter alternatives, he straight away went for a weissbier. Wouldn't even try another black beer!
We did make him taste Dark Arts but his mind was made up long before it passed his lips - he was never going to drink it.
The power of marketing and brand loyalty never ceases to amaze me!

Its the sign of someone who buys the corporate bs line that bigger is best. If it isn't a brand with a million euro Christmas ad behind it they're not interested. Seen it a few times in the likes of Against The Grain and Bull and Castle, they look stunned when told then leave, I feel like shouting up "try a ****ing alternative". I'm guessing they don't travel abroad much and if they do they must bring 6 packs with them.

johnnyskeleton

the beer revolu wrote: »

Was in The Abbot's, Cork, last night.
There was a guy down from Dublin on a job in my company.
He was a "Guinness man".
When told there was no Guinness he had a reaction that surprised me.
Rather than even taste any stout/porter alternatives, he straight away went for a weissbier. Wouldn't even try another black beer!
We did make him taste Dark Arts but his mind was made up long before it passed his lips - he was never going to drink it.
The power of marketing and brand loyalty never ceases to amaze me!

So his preference number 1 is Guinness, no 2 weissbier. You tried to get him to drink another beer when they had his second choice available. Or maybe he liked the look of the Weiss and wanted to try it.

Krusty_Clown

I have a friend who is similar. Happy to try different wine varieties, but when it comes to stout, it has got to be Guinness. The main issue seems to be that it's not Guinness (Krusty_Clown in shocker revelation!). Specifically, it does not look or taste like Guinness. The product is not evaluated on its own merits, but instead evaluated on it's similarity (or difference) to the standard product. My kids are the same. I buy fruit and vegetables in LIDL. Occasionally, I'll buy cereal in LIDL, e.g. Cornflakes. The kids won't eat them. It's a perfectly good product, but doesn't taste exactly like the Kellogg's equivalent. Plus they get soggy quicker.

Technocentral

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I have a friend who is similar. Happy to try different wine varieties, but when it comes to stout, it has got to be Guinness. The main issue seems to be that it's not Guinness (Krusty_Clown in shocker revelation!). Specifically, it does not look or taste like Guinness. The product is not evaluated on its own merits, but instead evaluated on it's similarity (or difference) to the standard product. My kids are the same. I buy fruit and vegetables in LIDL. Occasionally, I'll buy cereal in LIDL, e.g. Cornflakes. The kids won't eat them. It's a perfectly good product, but doesn't taste exactly like the Kellogg's equivalent. Plus they get soggy quicker.

Pretty good analogy except that in a lot of cases (Dark Arts, O'Hara's etc) the alternatives to Guinness taste better, LIDL Cornflakes main selling point afaik is that they are cheaper not better tasting.

Technocentral

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So his preference number 1 is Guinness, no 2 weissbier. You tried to get him to drink another beer when they had his second choice available. Or maybe he liked the look of the Weiss and wanted to try it.

I completely understand op's point, my main preference is ale, my second is cider, if they don't have my main choice which is Galway Hooker I ask for another brand of ale I don't jump straight on to a completely different type of alcoholic drink ie cider (in my case). I would if they didn't have any other ales to try. That guys jumping straight to weissbier would be the equivalent.

johnnyskeleton

Technocentral wrote: »

I completely understand op's point, my main preference is ale, my second is cider, if they don't have my main choice which is Galway Hooker I ask for another brand of ale I don't jump straight on to a completely different type of alcoholic drink ie cider (in my case). I would if they didn't have any other ales to try. That guys jumping straight to weissbier would be the equivalent.

So because that is true for you it must be true for everyone else? I love the way people can be so narrow minded when criticising other people's drink preferences, whether you be a devout Guinness drinker or a devout anti-Guinness drinker.

Howjoe1

never heard of dark arts:o


is it generally available on draught?

Zebra3

Howjoe1 wrote: »

never heard of dark arts:o


is it generally available on draught?

http://www.troublebrewing.ie/index.php?page=Where

Not too widely available, but worth hunting down.

shadowcomplex

Would you have been ok if he had went for a coke?:rolleyes:

previous user

the beer revolu wrote: »

Was in The Abbot's, Cork, last night.
There was a guy down from Dublin on a job in my company.
He was a "Guinness man".
When told there was no Guinness he had a reaction that surprised me.
Rather than even taste any stout/porter alternatives, he straight away went for a weissbier. Wouldn't even try another black beer!
We did make him taste Dark Arts but his mind was made up long before it passed his lips - he was never going to drink it.
The power of marketing and brand loyalty never ceases to amaze me!

I love Guinness, but I do like to frequent the Porterhouse and sample their oyster stout, a lot smoother.

the beer revolu

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So because that is true for you it must be true for everyone else? I love the way people can be so narrow minded when criticising other people's drink preferences, whether you be a devout Guinness drinker or a devout anti-Guinness drinker.

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would you have been ok if he had went for a coke?:rolleyes:

My point was that he "knew" he wouldn't like any other stout/porter without ever tasting them. He wouldn't like them because they're not Guinness.
I wasn't criticising his drink preference, I was criticising his narrow mindedness in not being willing to try an alternative to Guinness. (Tastes are free, in The Abbot's.)

Howjoe1

Zebra3 wrote: »

http://www.troublebrewing.ie/index.php?page=Where

Not too widely available, but worth hunting down.

cheers. i'll watch out for it and give it a try.

Heisenberg1

I'm a Guinness drinker but if I don't like the establishment or the Arthur I will drink Heineken when I'm at home I drink Erdinger Kristal horses for courses and all that.

Lemonperv

I get frustrated too. I remember seeing some tourist come in to the Porterhouse looking for a pint of Guinness which they don't sell. When they explained that they do their own stouts, the man wouldn't have any of it. Apparently he wanted something Irish and only Guinness was Irish enough for him

Oyster, Plain, Wrasslers and Dark Arts are great

Technocentral

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So because that is true for you it must be true for everyone else? I love the way people can be so narrow minded when criticising other people's drink preferences, whether you be a devout Guinness drinker or a devout anti-Guinness drinker.

I'm narrow minded because I think its a good idea for people to try as wide a range as possible of stouts etc? Thats a ****ed up definition of narrow mindedness!

copacetic

the beer revolu wrote: »

My point was that he "knew" he wouldn't like any other stout/porter without ever tasting them. He wouldn't like them because they're not Guinness.
I wasn't criticising his drink preference, I was criticising his narrow mindedness in not being willing to try an alternative to Guinness. (Tastes are free, in The Abbot's.)

You weren't just critiquing his narrow mind, apparently everyone who drinks Guinness is the same, what the hell is wrong with them all and their narrow minded opinions eh?

Technocentral

Lemonperv wrote: »

I get frustrated too. I remember seeing some tourist come in to the Porterhouse looking for a pint of Guinness which they don't sell. When they explained that they do their own stouts, the man wouldn't have any of it. Apparently he wanted something Irish and only Guinness was Irish enough for him

Oyster, Plain, Wrasslers and Dark Arts are great

British company, oh the irony!!

johnnyskeleton

the beer revolu wrote: »

My point was that he "knew" he wouldn't like any other stout/porter without ever tasting them. He wouldn't like them because they're not Guinness.
I wasn't criticising his drink preference, I was criticising his narrow mindedness in not being willing to try an alternative to Guinness. (Tastes are free, in The Abbot's.)

He had a weissbier. It's not like he refused to drink anything other than Guinness and sat there staring at the walls.

Nor, since this is clearly another "I love craft beer and hate mass produced beer" thread, did he insist on going from Guinness to heiniken or bud.

Had he done either of these, maybe your criticism of him would be valid. But his unwillingness to drink dark arts is not a sign of someone who is closed minded to trying differet drinks, just someone who doesn't want to try any other stouts.

My advice is to leave him alone and don't force him to try anythig he doesn't want to try. He will either try it himself when he is in the mood to do so, or he won't. Equally, remember that it's just beer. It's not like he's refusing to accept the possibility of evolution, or that the world is round.

johnnyskeleton

Technocentral wrote: »

I'm narrow minded because I think its a good idea for people to try as wide a range as possible of stouts etc? Thats a ****ed up definition of narrow mindedness!

No, you're narrow minded because of your intolerance of other people's drinking choices. Kind of like someone with extremely liberal political views who are constantly critising the opinions of others.

In any event your global view that people's beer preference must go by beer type rather than individual choice makes no sense. If I want a punk ipa first but ts not available, then an old engine oil, then a stonewell, then a 5am saint, then an erdinger etc, what is wrong with that? Yet you criticise me for jumping from one type of beer to another.

tayto lover

For me it's always a Guinness except for a large bottle of Bulmers with plenty of ice after a game of golf on a summer day.
Tried one or two of the pretenders but no comparison.

Seaneh

tayto lover wrote: »

For me it's always a Guinness except for a large bottle of Bulmers with plenty of ice after a game of golf on a summer day.
Tried one or two of the pretenders but no comparison.

You have no taste buds.

Berty

Reminds me of a Bierhaus Dublin story.

Fella goes to the bar and meets a bad barman(not helpful)

Pint of Guinness Please
Don't have Guinness
Pint of Heinken then
Don't have that either
Pint of Bulmers then
Don't have that either

So he left.

Now he went from Stout to Beer to Cider because he was Brand orientated not because he was sticking to the choice of beverage type. The barman to be fair should have said "We don't have Guinness but we do have XX" to be fair but then again the point is there are loads of people out there who know nothing more than just the mainstream brands so it's not their fault either. They are just poorly educated in what is out there and what is good or better quality.

I was having a guy do some tiling in my house this week and I said who I was working for and what I sold and he said "oh that muck?" which in itself was quite rude of him and my silent reaction told him all he needed to know. He said he was a Bud man true and true and would leave a bar if they didn't have it or ran out.

the beer revolu

Maybe for the sake of the people I've upset here, I should change the title to: What the hell is wrong with people who believe that any one particular brand of beer is far superior to all other beers which are just slop in comparison and they "know" this despite having tasted few alternatives and it just so happens that in my observance, more "Guinness men" than other beer brand bunnies tend to be guilty of this mind set?

I would feel the same about a "Dark Arts Man" who wouldn't try other stout/porters.
It's not a craft/mainstream argument it is a blind brand loyalty thing.

Oh, and Johnny, when I want your advise, I'll ask for it.
If it's only beer why are you so upset?

rubadub

the beer revolu wrote: »

The power of marketing and brand loyalty never ceases to amaze me!

I can think of no other product where the same weird irrational thing goes on. Bulmers would come close, but it is very different from most other ciders (maybe not the new stella one). So if a bar had no bulmers I could see somebody not wanting strongbow, if they had tasted it before, or if they recognise it is likely to be very different.

I would wager there are a quite a few people who would call themselves guinness drinkers who have never tried any other stout, ever, or maybe just 1 or 2 others max. While I would expect a dedicated heineken or bud drinker to have tasted many other lagers and be quite open to tasting a new one.

I remember ordering a beamish in a round with mates, one a guinness drinker, and you would swear I asked the barman to piss in the glass with the look he gave me, and gave a genuinely astonished "why would you get that!?!".

I have said before I reckon if beamish was the same price it would be more popular, it has a stigma about it being "cheap", like "how is it that cheap, something must be wrong with it" -while really they should question why guinness is so relatively expensive.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So his preference number 1 is Guinness, no 2 weissbier.

Correct, and I think it is odd & irrational, I am not really criticizing it, just puzzled by his thought process, and wonder if people like this apply it in other foods & drinks. Like if they wanted ketchup on a burger but there was no heinz would they jump straight to mustard, rather than even sample another ketchup they have never had before. Or if he fancied a mars bar and there were none would he go for crisps rather than chance another bar he never had before.

People have done blind tastes here and there was no huge difference seen between guinness and many other stouts.

_blank_

Beer Baron wrote: »

Reminds me of a Bierhaus Dublin story.

I've been in The Brew Dock and watch customers walk out having come in looking for Guinness.

The only thing they have on tap in there even remotely resembling guinness is Dark Arts, I think, and it's not served nitro like on O'Neill's.

Being beside the country's biggest bus station, the IFSC, a busy train station, and the end of the Luas Line, I think they could at least consider sticking something like O'Hara's Stout on tap in there.

The first time I witnessed this, the barman simply told a customer who asked for Guinness that they had none, I was there with my wife, and there was one other person having a drink. They lost an increase of 33% Business.

Nice to be able to turn that away.

Technocentral

_blank_ wrote: »

I've been in The Brew Dock and watch customers walk out having come in looking for Guinness.

The only thing they have on tap in there even remotely resembling guinness is Dark Arts, I think, and it's not served nitro like on O'Neill's.

Being beside the country's biggest bus station, the IFSC, a busy train station, and the end of the Luas Line, I think they could at least consider sticking something like O'Hara's Stout on tap in there.

The first time I witnessed this, the barman simply told a customer who asked for Guinness that they had none, I was there with my wife, and there was one other person having a drink. They lost an increase of 33% Business.

Nice to be able to turn that away.

Their middle finger to the Evil Empire gets my vote. Ireland's changing, people are realizing that there are a number of home produced delicious alternatives to industrial produced blandness, why should every bar have to stock Diageo products? By that reckoning the IFI should show Battleships and the Times should have X Factor as its headline story because thats what the masses want. There is an increasing market for people sick of the same restricted choice.

johnnyskeleton

the beer revolu wrote: »

Maybe for the sake of the people I've upset here, I should change the title to: What the hell is wrong with people who believe that any one particular brand of beer is far superior to all other beers which are just slop in comparison and they "know" this despite having tasted few alternatives and it just so happens that in my observance, more "Guinness men" than other beer brand bunnies tend to be guilty of this mind set?

I would feel the same about a "Dark Arts Man" who wouldn't try other stout/porters.
It's not a craft/mainstream argument it is a blind brand loyalty thing.

Oh, and Johnny, when I want your advise, I'll ask for it.
If it's only beer why are you so upset?

Sorry. I didn't realise that this is one of those threads where you say something everyone else just agrees or else refrains from posting.

johnnyskeleton

rubadub wrote: »

Correct, and I think it is odd & irrational, I am not really criticizing it, just puzzled by his thought process, and wonder if people like this apply it in other foods & drinks. Like if they wanted ketchup on a burger but there was no heinz would they jump straight to mustard, rather than even sample another ketchup they have never had before.

Supposing someone did just that, would you:
A. Assume that they were just blindly following the advertising, or
B. Accept that they might have some reason, either experience or knowledge of the products, that informs their choice?

rubadub

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

A. Assume that they were just blindly following the advertising, or
B. Accept that they might have some reason, either experience or knowledge of the products, that informs their choice?

Probably a combination of both. You might have to elaborate on what experience or knowledge they might possibly have, as I specifically said the alternative was a ketchup they NEVER tasted before.

In the OP it sounded like he had never tasted dark arts before, and likely never heard of it before.

the beer revolu wrote: »

We did make him taste Dark Arts but his mind was made up long before it passed his lips - he was never going to drink it.

If somebody is a fan of a food/drink item, I would think they would be open to tasting more. Perhaps he did try loads of stouts and hated them, and so presumes he will hate the next one too -this just seems unusual as I said blind tasters do not show it. I would think it unusual if somebody despised all chocolate bars except mars, perhaps some do, but i think it would be odd to have such different taste buds than the normal population, if they are that sensitive they might find a profession to make use of it.

It would depend on the character of the person too, if I knew them I might be able to guess if is it rational/genuine. I know a guy who goes OTT about his alleged hatred of heineken, none of his mates believe it and joke about it as he gladly drinks other very similar beers. This can be seen as anti-advertising, hatred of the big-boys, like people overstating their hatred of apple/ipods, or indeed guinness.

I fully accept people do blindly follow advertising, you see it in threads like "ketchup heinz or chef", "cola: coke or pepsi". You see people with ridiculously OTT statements about how one is completely and utterly vile beyond belief, which the other is manna from heaven.

There have been various psychological experiments on the whole coke vs pepsi thing. Such as coke fans preferring coke from a unlabelled cup over the same coke in a pepsi cup.

One on wine here too

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/you-are-not-so-smart-why-we-cant-tell-good-wine-from-bad/247240/

In one experiment, he got 54 oenology (the study of wine tasting and wine making) undergraduates together and had them taste one glass of red wine and one glass of white wine. He had them describe each wine in as much detail as their expertise would allow. What he didn't tell them was both were the same wine. He just dyed the white one red. In the other experiment, he asked the experts to rate two different bottles of red wine. One was very expensive, the other was cheap. Again, he tricked them. This time he had put the cheap wine in both bottles. So what were the results?

The tasters in the first experiment, the one with the dyed wine, described the sorts of berries and grapes and tannins they could detect in the red wine just as if it really was red. Every single one, all 54, could not tell it was white. In the second experiment, the one with the switched labels, the subjects went on and on about the cheap wine in the expensive bottle. They called it complex and rounded. They called the same wine in the cheap bottle weak and flat.

Heroditas

I occasionally meet my mates for pints on Thursday nights and we go to the Stag's Head. Pints of Guinness etc.
For my birthday this year I convinced them to go to the Bull and Castle. Three of them loved it (two of whom love those places anyway, the third was a craft beer virgin but thoroughly enjoyed tasting different beers), the remaining two sat and complained about the Guinness all night saying it "tasted a bit off" or "the head doesn't look right" etc.
They point blank refused to try anything else despite me saying they might enjoy one or two of the porters/stouts.
It's a pity. Some people are really set in their ways.

johnnyskeleton

rubadub wrote: »

Probably a combination of both. You might have to elaborate on what experience or knowledge they might possibly have, as I specifically said the alternative was a ketchup they NEVER tasted before.

In the OP it sounded like he had never tasted dark arts before, and likely never heard of it before.



If somebody is a fan of a food/drink item, I would think they would be open to tasting more. Perhaps he did try loads of stouts and hated them, and so presumes he will hate the next one too -this just seems unusual as I said blind tasters do not show it. I would think it unusual if somebody despised all chocolate bars except mars, perhaps some do, but i think it would be odd to have such different taste buds than the normal population, if they are that sensitive they might find a profession to make use of it.

It would depend on the character of the person too, if I knew them I might be able to guess if is it rational/genuine. I know a guy who goes OTT about his alleged hatred of heineken, none of his mates believe it and joke about it as he gladly drinks other very similar beers. This can be seen as anti-advertising, hatred of the big-boys, like people overstating their hatred of apple/ipods, or indeed guinness.

I fully accept people do blindly follow advertising, you see it in threads like "ketchup heinz or chef", "cola: coke or pepsi". You see people with ridiculously OTT statements about how one is completely and utterly vile beyond belief, which the other is manna from heaven.

There have been various psychological experiments on the whole coke vs pepsi thing. Such as coke fans preferring coke from a unlabelled cup over the same coke in a pepsi cup.

One on wine here too

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/you-are-not-so-smart-why-we-cant-tell-good-wine-from-bad/247240/

Isn't that article about how people who assert themselves as sophisticated aren't really basing their opinions on actual taste, but on preconceived ideas of rarity and quality? As in, maybe If the op were to be told that the Guinness was dark arts and vice versa, he would sing the praises of the Guinness believing it to be, in his mind, a "better" stout?

Bigcheeze

Heroditas wrote: »

the remaining two sat and complained about the Guinness all night saying it "tasted a bit off" or "the head doesn't look right" etc.
They point blank refused to try anything else despite me saying they might enjoy one or two of the porters/stouts.
It's a pity. Some people are really set in their ways.

It's kind of a macho thing in ireland. "Knowledge" of the pint is something passed from father to son. Trying other drinks would be a sign of your failure as a man.

As part of my childhood training for the Knowledge I learned that you should never let a woman pull a pint of Guinness, there has to be a good run on the Guinness and never let your future wife use washing up liquid on the glasses.

I'm now labelled as being "in to those weird beers", the alcohol equivalent of running off to join the moonies.

the beer revolu

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

As in, maybe If the op were to be told that the Guinness was dark arts and vice versa, he would sing the praises of the Guinness believing it to be, in his mind, a "better" stout?

Maybe you could point out for me where I, the OP, expressed any opinion regarding the relative quality of Guinness over Dark Arts or any other beer?

_blank_

Technocentral wrote: »

Their middle finger to the Evil Empire gets my vote. Ireland's changing, people are realizing that there are a number of home produced delicious alternatives to industrial produced blandness, why should every bar have to stock Diageo products? By that reckoning the IFI should show Battleships and the Times should have X Factor as its headline story because thats what the masses want. There is an increasing market for people sick of the same restricted choice.

did you read my post?

Clearly not.

I did not say they should get any of the Diageo products.

I said they should consider having at least ONE stout on draught, as I've witnessed potential customers walk out of the place when they couldn't get stout.

Ravelleman

Why do people eat economy-style ham? Or Calvita cheese? Because they are cheap and people like what they know.

I know lots of people who won't try things that are outside the boundaries of their experience, not just in the world of beer.

Some people are just like that in general.

the beer revolu

Ravelleman wrote: »

Why do people eat economy-style ham? Or Calvita cheese? Because they are cheap and people like what they know.

But Guinness is marketed as a "premium" brand.

Zebra3

the beer revolu wrote: »

But Guinness is marketed as a "premium" brand.

As is Heineken.

the beer revolu

Zebra3 wrote: »

As is Heineken.

Yes it is.

What is your point?

Ruben Remus

Bigcheeze wrote: »

It's kind of a macho thing in ireland. "Knowledge" of the pint is something passed from father to son. Trying other drinks would be a sign of your failure as a man.

As part of my childhood training for the Knowledge I learned that you should never let a woman pull a pint of Guinness, there has to be a good run on the Guinness and never let your future wife use washing up liquid on the glasses.

I'm now labelled as being "in to those weird beers", the alcohol equivalent of running off to join the moonies.

Great post. I'm interested in how this staunch Guinness brand loyalty sets in, and your theory is a good one.

However, in my younger years I would have been very dubious about trying a stout other than Guinness and in my own case that wasn't passed from father to son as neither of my parents drink alcohol. I'm honestly not sure why I saw Guinness as superior and the likes of Beamish/Murphy's/O'Haras as being a bit questionable. Marketing, advertising and being around regular Guinness drinkers probably had something to do with it.

Today, Guinness is way down my list of preferences when it comes to stout/porter. I try to avoid ordering it if possible because:

a) I much prefer the taste of O'Hara's Leann Follain, Dark Arts, Eight Degrees' Knockmealdown Porter, Dungarvan Blackrock Stout, Porterhouse Plain, etc.
b) I'd rather not support a wealthy drinks corporation which is not even based in Ireland
and
c) The Arthur's Day nonsense really pisses me off.

_blank_

One thing to be noted in this thread, I feel, is that

a. large bottles
2, extra stout
d. Foreign Extra

are all really good products from Guinness.

johnnyskeleton

the beer revolu wrote: »

Maybe you could point out for me where I, the OP, expressed any opinion regarding the relative quality of Guinness over Dark Arts or any other beer?

You didn't. My point is that for all your view of dark arts being superior to Guinness, if someone did the old switcharoo you mightn't notice the difference. That's the purport of that article.

In any event, why this need to constantly deride people's drinks choices? You dont become an expert merely by deriding the inexpertise of others.

_blank_

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

You didn't. My point is that for all your view of dark arts being superior to Guinness, if someone did the old switcharoo you mightn't notice the difference. That's the purport of that article.

In any event, why this need to constantly deride people's drinks choices? You dont become an expert merely by deriding the inexpertise of others.

What?

How could you NOT notice the difference between DA and Guinness

Do you know what DA is - have you drank it?

Son0vagun

There's a huge difference between DA and Guinness. So much more flavour in DA, it's quite magical in ways.

However, I do love a pint or ten of Guinness.

johnnyskeleton

_blank_ wrote: »

What?

How could you NOT notice the difference between DA and Guinness

Do you know what DA is - have you drank it?

It is difficult at times to have an objective discussion on this forum without the beer snobs running wild.

Rubadub posted an article about wine tasters who mistook a white wine for a red when die was added, and claimed to have noticed the unique favour profiles of a red wine in it.

So to apply that article to this thread, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a person drinking dark arts, believing it to be Guinness, would deride it as being mass produced, bland etc, the same criticisms they make of Guinness, and they do so because of their mistaken belief.

If wine tasting students could make such a large error based on preconceptions, surely the same could be applied to the casual beer drinker.

And yes, I have tasted dark arts, on draft anyway.

Mr Magnolia

It's gas, I saw Ramsey quizzing 3 chefs once. He showed them beef rump, sirloin and fillet, he then blindfolded them for a taste test. He duly switched the plate with lamb, chicken and venison and none of the three noticed. Each identified one of the 3 beef cuts upon tasting.

My point is that if some people aren't prepared or it's an unsuspected or scripted taste test then I think the results could be for the birds but I feel if someone with a decent palate has the task set about them they'll easily identify a superior product.

johnnyskeleton

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

It's gas, I saw Ramsey quizzing 3 chefs once. He showed them beef rump, sirloin and fillet, he then blindfolded them for a taste test. He duly switched the plate with lamb, chicken and venison and none of the three noticed. Each identified one of the 3 beef cuts upon tasting.

My point is that if some people aren't prepared or it's an unsuspected or scripted taste test then I think the results could be for the birds but I feel if someone with a decent palate has the task set about them they'll easily identify a superior product.

Exactly. Equally, someone blind tasting to tell Guinness from a "superior" beer might not be investigating which beer they like best but rather attempting to identify one from the other. I suspect if people went in with a truly open mind we would get some interesting results, but that's neither here nor there. If you get extra enjoyment from being a "Guinness man" or indeed from being "a craft beer drinker" then that's perfectly fine. I know for a fact that much of what I enjoy in my favourite whisky is the presentation, the small scale and the fact that once it's gone there will never be the exact same single barrel whisky again. Does that make it objectively taste better? No. But I enjoy it more.

Anyway, with all this talk of stout I've selected one for myself. Marston Oyster stout, because I'm a sucker for punishment!

Seaneh

_blank_ wrote: »

One thing to be noted in this thread, I feel, is that

a. large bottles
2, extra stout
d. Foreign Extra

are all really good products from Guinness.

Large bottles and extra stout are the same thing.

Seaneh

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

You didn't. My point is that for all your view of dark arts being superior to Guinness, if someone did the old switcharoo you mightn't notice the difference. That's the purport of that article.

Of course you'd notice the difference, the flavours are as different as Heiniken and Budweiser!