New 2013 VRT rates up on BMW configurator

carsfan

I don't know if BMW Ireland are jumping the gun or have inside information but their car configurator has different VRT rates tonight compared to last week when I looked at it.
Prices of some models have gone up substantially as a result.
The co2 levels are still showing the same so I can only conclude that they have been told that these are the new rates that will applyafter the budget.
Band B cars that were 16% are now 19% or 20% so it looks like this band has been split up as R.O.R. predicted.
I do wonder if increasing prices is something the market needs at this time?

Supergurrier

Probably just guessing to get people to panic buy 2012 stock

bmstuff

Another step backward my new dream car, the Grand Coupe 6 series...

CrowdedHouse

Ah FFS......:mad:

Eric Cartman

Regardless of these figures being accurate or not, it is going to happen, to all manufacturers in january, so its not really scare tactics.

AltAccount

I don't believe that the gov't had made these decisions already and leaked it to the manufacturers a month an a half in advance of the Budget.

Eric Cartman

AltAccount wrote: »

I don't believe that the gov't had made these decisions already and leaked it to the manufacturers a month an a half in advance of the Budget.

definitely not, if they did, SIMI would be in there strong arming them from now until the moment RTE turn on the cameras.

R.O.R

Nothing had been finalised as far as I was aware when I left the office on Friday, but a few manufacturers had started issuing pricing for 2013 anyway.

Just hope they haven't based figures on what they'd read on boards...


EDIT
Even worse than I thought if BMW's figures are correct, and the configurator is pretty poor on anythinng but a huge screen :-(

ninty9er

Even if they are guesstimating, there's no guarantee they're guesstimating correctly. Something like this would be like the third secret of Fatima this far out from the budget

R.O.R

From my reading of the BMW site against my original estimates, looks like I was on the money for A&B, but C upwards is quite a large increase over what I had.

If anyone spots errors in the table below, feel free to update.

2013 CO2 My Guess BMW info CO2
A1 14% (no cars) Up to 80g
A2 15% 15% 81g-100g
A3 16% 16% 101g-110g
A4 18% 18% 111g-120g
B1 19% 19% 121g-130g
B2 20% 20% 131g-140g
C 21% 24% 141g-155g
D 25% 28% 156g-170g
E 28% 30% 171g-190g
F 33% 34% 191g-225g
G 37% 38% 226g and over

carsfan

I do not think BMW would put this on their website unless they were pretty sure about the figures.
I have to think that this is the last thing the motor industry needs right now and reinforces my belief that our government really are too far removed from the realities of the domestic economy.

Leonard Hofstadter

The Governement are giving them what they want with the registration plate changes, which is an absolute disgrace, the SIMI can't have it all their own way. Irish people buy rubbish cars as things stand even with the much lower rates of VRT currently enjoyed (for example 75% of 3 series are 316ds compared to over 60% of 3 series in the UK being 320ds) so that will never change no matter how low the VRT rate is, Irish people will always go for the cheapest possible way of 'going up the years' when it comes to buying new cars. One of the things worth noting with the new system (if what BMW says is correct) is that the gaps in VRT between the various CO2 bands will be smaller, which should narrow the VRT rates between petrol and diesel. This should mean that petrols will be less expensive relative to diesels from now on (and in some cases the petrol models will be even cheaper over the diesel equivalent than is presently the case), not that I expect it to make even the slightest bit of difference to the general public, who will continue to blindly buy diesel even when it makes no sense so as to save a euro a week on road tax.

dredg

captainspeed wrote: »

The Governement are giving them what they want with the registration plate changes, which is an absolute disgrace, the SIMI can't have it all their own way.

Source for reg plate changes?

Blazer

Bastards..now's the perfect time to be getting rid of VRT since it's only bringing in €150 million nowadays.
But of course the government will continue to flout EU laws when it suits them while lecturing to us about how much we need the EU and we need to follow EU laws etc.

Paternal leave is another one they've just flouted last month.

AltAccount

Blazer wrote: »

Bastards..now's the perfect time to be getting rid of VRT since it's only bringing in €150 million nowadays.
But of course the government will continue to flout EU laws when it suits them while lecturing to us about how much we need the EU and we need to follow EU laws etc.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Sobanek

I think dropping VRT would have a dramatic effect on car sales, and actually they would get more from the VAT than the VRT. Maybe leave the VRT for cars that are less than 10 years old with the exemption of brand new ones?

Supergurrier

Sobanek wrote: »

I think dropping VRT would have a dramatic effect on car sales, and actually they would get more from the VAT than the VRT. Maybe leave the VRT for cars that are less than 10 years old with the exemption of brand new ones?

Why do the sensible thing when you can make a quick buck

R.O.R

Sobanek wrote: »

I think dropping VRT would have a dramatic effect on car sales, and actually they would get more from the VAT than the VRT. Maybe leave the VRT for cars that are less than 10 years old with the exemption of brand new ones?

Dramatic effect, yes, that would be one way of describing it. All worked out so well last time they did that, can't move for new cars being sold and dealers opening up now.

Sobanek

R.O.R wrote: »

Dramatic effect, yes, that would be one way of describing it. All worked out so well last time they did that, can't move for new cars being sold and dealers opening up now.

I don't think you realise how the supply & demand curves work. Taxation has a huge impact on the demand. If I were to buy a car, right now, brand new for let's say... 35k. I'd be much happier to buy a 520D (with the VRT gone that's how much it'd be) than a 320d (That's what it costs more or less now with VRT)

AltAccount

Sobanek wrote: »

I don't think you realise how the supply & demand curves work. Taxation has a huge impact on the demand. If I were to buy a car, right now, brand new for let's say... 35k. I'd be much happier to buy a 520D (with the VRT gone that's how much it'd be) than a 320d (That's what it costs more or less now with VRT)

NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOO

pred racer

@ altaccount.

Thats bloody annoying!

AltAccount

The "if we repeat it often enough it'll become true" mantra of the VRT IS ILLEGAL brigade, the ill informed belief that the removal of VRT will overnight change the demand for new cars and will have no adverse effects on the fragile supply/demand ecosystem of the second hand car market, or the silly large font replies?

I apologise, but to be honest we've had so many stupid, frustrating and circular discussions of the first two that I felt my only choice was to try for a plan C...

pred racer

The large font, it plays hell with an ipad screen.

The frustration on the other hand, I understand 100%

urajoke

Eh Altaccount leave it out please.

I hate BMW's website why can't they just have a feckin normal price list without that stupid restrictive configurator.

AltAccount

pred racer wrote: »

The large font, it plays hell with an ipad screen.

Better?

urajoke

AltAccount wrote: »

Better?

Yes thanks

AltAccount

urajoke wrote: »

Eh Altaccount leave it out please.

I hate BMW's website why can't they just have a feckin normal price list without that stupid restrictive configurator.

Left hand side on the home page, there are a couple of links including BMW Model Range Pricelist

http://external.bmw.ie/sausage/templates/bmw06/downloads/BMWModelRangePricelist.pdf

testicle

Blazer wrote: »

Bastards..now's the perfect time to be getting rid of VRT since it's only bringing in €150 million nowadays.
But of course the government will continue to flout EU laws when it suits them while lecturing to us about how much we need the EU and we need to follow EU laws etc.

Paternal leave is another one they've just flouted last month.

Proof that there's always one!

urajoke

AltAccount wrote: »

Left hand side on the home page, there are a couple of links including BMW Model Range Pricelist

http://external.bmw.ie/sausage/templates/bmw06/downloads/BMWModelRangePricelist.pdf

Thanks I just went for the configurator.

Leonard Hofstadter

Sobanek wrote: »

I don't think you realise how the supply & demand curves work. Taxation has a huge impact on the demand. If I were to buy a car, right now, brand new for let's say... 35k. I'd be much happier to buy a 520D (with the VRT gone that's how much it'd be) than a 320d (That's what it costs more or less now with VRT)

Ironically when the price of most cars decreased in 2008, the exact opposite happened. I think the real reason for the collapse in sales despite the reductions in VRT has a lot more to do with how the car tax system changed and the Irish obsession with saving every last euro in car tax. The fact that dealers were giving significantly less for trade ins than before meant that it still cost just as much to 'go up the years' as it did before, so there was less of an incentive to buy.

urajoke

It will be interesting to see the figures at the end of 2013 for the government to see if this makes them money or backfires.

AltAccount

Increasing the availability of credit would have a far greater impact than some tinkering with the retail prices.

People who can get their hands on €25k to buy a car will also be able to get €23k or €27k.

Messing with VRT won't drive demand, it's just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Supergurrier

AltAccount wrote: »

Increasing the availability of credit would have a far greater impact than some tinkering with the retail prices.

People who can get their hands on €25k to buy a car will also be able to get €23k or €27k.

Messing with VRT won't drive demand, it's just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Not really when a car that costs 20 grand in the UK is almost double that here, it's more like shooting the iceberg with a missile.

But w/e, as said this has been done to death, common sense will prevail in the end

kirving

VRT is still charged on safety equipment, isn't it?

Disgraceful if it is.

Eric Cartman

to be fair, If they abolished VRT Id just buy every car from a UK dealer, either new or second hand, better service and not afraid to order you extras .

Abolishing VRT would literally destroy the second hand car market here , why would anyone buy a poverty spec car thats been battered round a carpark , brush washed down the local texaco and has marks on every panel when they could send their money to the UK and get a fully loaded model thats been cared for , for roughly the same, if not a lower price.

Sobanek

Eric Cartman wrote: »

to be fair, If they abolished VRT Id just buy every car from a UK dealer, either new or second hand, better service and not afraid to order you extras .

Abolishing VRT would literally destroy the second hand car market here , why would anyone buy a poverty spec car thats been battered round a carpark , brush washed down the local texaco and has marks on every panel when they could send their money to the UK and get a fully loaded model thats been cared for , for roughly the same, if not a lower price.

And that my dear is why Barriers of trade still exist, even though we're in the EU.

Supergurrier

Sobanek wrote: »

And that my dear is why Barriers of trade still exist, even though we're in the EU.

Try applying VRT as a "Legal" tax in any other eurozone state and see what happens.

Might want to stock up on fire extinguishers first mind

Sobanek

Supergurrier wrote: »

Try applying VRT as a "Legal" tax in any other eurozone state and see what happens.

Might want to stock up on fire extinguishers first mind

Poland has Excise Duty on all imports. So do most countries in the EU, I think.

In Poland it's based on car value + engine size. If it's 2000cc or less, the rate of the duty is 3.1%, if over 2000cc it's 18.6%.
On top of that is the recycling fee - 125 quid more or less.
On top of that the actual registration fee - about 60 quid.

cabb8ge

Eric Cartman wrote: »

to be fair, If they abolished VRT Id just buy every car from a UK dealer, either new or second hand, better service and not afraid to order you extras

That might not be the best strategy, some cars are cheaper in Ireland than in the UK, petrol e60 BMWs for example in the 2004 to 2007 category agegroup, even without VRT it would cost more to buy one in UK and bring to here on baot. Probably more too but I was recently looking at these specific model and so became aware of the price details.

Leonard Hofstadter

I would still rather buy a car in the UK even if it is more expensive, even crappy little 1.0 litre Micras are looked after over there. Only yesterday I passed a 1993 Micra that looked as though it had just been detailed, and it was a poverty spec 1.0 L, it didn't even have power steering!

The Brits look after their cars so much better than the Irish it's ridiculous. Plus the fact that they actually buy cars with proper engines and with plenty of spec, even little yokes like Fiestas will have climate control, alloys, I've even seen a 207 with leather and a satnav! No shortage of 5 series with proper (and by that I mean six cylinder) engines either, in backward old Ireland an astonishing 98% of 5 series sold so far this year have a four cylinder engine:eek:!

RedorDead

R.O.R wrote: »

From my reading of the BMW site against my original estimates, looks like I was on the money for A&B, but C upwards is quite a large increase over what I had.

If anyone spots errors in the table below, feel free to update.

2013 CO2 My Guess BMW info CO2
A1 14% (no cars) Up to 80g
A2 15% 15% 81g-100g
A3 16% 16% 101g-110g
A4 18% 18% 111g-120g
B1 19% 19% 121g-130g
B2 20% 20% 131g-140g
C 21% 24% 141g-155g
D 25% 28% 156g-170g
E 28% 30% 171g-190g
F 33% 34% 191g-225g
G 37% 38% 226g and over

According to my latest information the above is wrong. Highest band stays at 36% and the max increase from today will be 3%. Also goes A1-A3 and B1-B3 and then C upwards as before.

R.O.R

RedorDead wrote: »

According to my latest information the above is wrong. Highest band stays at 36% and the max increase from today will be 3%. Also goes A1-A3 and B1-B3 and then C upwards as before.

Interesting......So it looks like BMW did jump the gun then. The Band A and Band B splits were what I'd heard from a totally different source, so I am surprised that you've got totally different info. Wasn't expecting much to happen from C and above.

Will you be around in the morning?

Eric Cartman

cabb8ge wrote: »

That might not be the best strategy, some cars are cheaper in Ireland than in the UK, petrol e60 BMWs for example in the 2004 to 2007 category agegroup, even without VRT it would cost more to buy one in UK and bring to here on baot. Probably more too but I was recently looking at these specific model and so became aware of the price details.

Bigger engined petrol cars may be cheaper here than in the UK , but the spec just isnt there , ive been searching for months now for an e38 7 series , everything I fin in ireland still just has the basic leather seats , most without navigation and absolutely no other extras ,

Same applies with the e60 , "fully loaded" in ireland means leather and a sunroof , on a car like a bmw with so many options not taken, buying in ireland is a waste of money in my book

carsfan

If the rates are wrong then surely BMW Ireland are being a bit smart putting them up on their web site.
The price list in pdf form is from last April and is completely different.

Do people in the trade find decisions are being put off because of a lack of clarity on pricing, or are people not bothered?
It would surely be of benefit to dealer and customer alike if the government would just come out and say what they are doing.

CrowdedHouse

Seeing as they're German they probably got it from their government who are writing our budget

Leonard Hofstadter

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Bigger engined petrol cars may be cheaper here than in the UK , but the spec just isnt there , ive been searching for months now for an e38 7 series , everything I fin in ireland still just has the basic leather seats , most without navigation and absolutely no other extras ,

Same applies with the e60 , "fully loaded" in ireland means leather and a sunroof , on a car like a bmw with so many options not taken, buying in ireland is a waste of money in my book

+1, it's amazing how considering that we picked up practically everything else they do that we never bothered inheriting their love of nice cars that are properly serviced, have proper engines, and good spec!

"High spec" in Ireland is basically the bottom of the range model in the UK (and sometimes a lower spec, in the case of the new Focus ALL models in the UK have a digital radio as standard, in Ireland not even the Titanium model has it as standard ffs), practically every 3 series Coupé in the UK has six rather than four cylinders, even little cars like Clios, Corsas, Yarises have climate control, electric windows front and back, alloys, fogs etc etc, in Ireland you're doing well to find a supermini with a/c never mind proper climate control.

Even cars from 10 years ago in the UK have more spec than equivalent new cars in Ireland, it's pathetic really, you'd even see old Peugeot 406s with climate control, leather, alloys, all electric windows etc, knowing Ireland the 508 probably only has a/c as standard 15 years after the 406 was around and obviously leather is very much an optional extra that nobody bothers with.

I suppose one of the reasons why Irish cars are such heaps of crap is so that we can say that we're different to 'them across the water' and because it's an English thing to like nice cars:rolleyes:! Sure anyway even if you did have a properly nice car in Ireland it would probably be nicked in no time or keyed or something:rolleyes:.

dredg

In Ireland people don't buy new cars for themselves, they buy them for the next owner.
Why spend the extra on options when you're just going to pay VRT on them, and sure when you sell you won't get the money back. Better off just buying the bottom of the range and sticking with lowest car tax :rolleyes:

RedorDead

R.O.R wrote: »

Interesting......So it looks like BMW did jump the gun then. The Band A and Band B splits were what I'd heard from a totally different source, so I am surprised that you've got totally different info. Wasn't expecting much to happen from C and above.

Will you be around in the morning?

Definitely jumped the gun, the rates i have seen are slightly lower so maybe they are putting those prices up as a "worst case" scenario and then hope to surprise everyone by announcing slightly lower prices. There were two drafts, second draft received after a lot of criticism. Release date wont be until budget day.

I was in this morning by the way - only checking this again, were you in? Mail me if you are

R.O.R

RedorDead wrote: »

Definitely jumped the gun, the rates i have seen are slightly lower so maybe they are putting those prices up as a "worst case" scenario and then hope to surprise everyone by announcing slightly lower prices. There were two drafts, second draft received after a lot of criticism. Release date wont be until budget day.

I was in this morning by the way - only checking this again, were you in? Mail me if you are

Just back from your place

Word around the table was that what has made it out is more or less confirmed, and it seems to just be you who has different info!

Will be interesting to see what eventually happens. Hopefully we'll all receive the same confirmation at some point soon, then we can quote and get orders in for 2013.

Nickindublin

Have ordered a new car. Wondering will these increases make much of a difference. Looks like going from 14% to 16% if this is true. Car is costing 28k.

carsfan

Ok.
Have heard that BMW were testing their system with what they have heard is coming re. vrt and that they do not know if they are correct. The figures were not supposed to go live but obviously they have.
It would appear they do not know if these figures will be the right ones either.