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English refereeing's darkest day?

  • 28-10-2012 5:57pm
    #1
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭


    A black day today for English football.

    Liverpool with a fine goal in the 93rd minute disallowed for a wrong offside when none existed.

    Fernando Torres sent off for a non existant dive after being taken out of it by Johnny Evans.

    Javier Hernandez winner being allowed despite him being quite a bit offside.

    This comes after notable incidents already this season, Jordi Gomez and Jonjo Shelvey's wrong sending offs, Robert Huth stamping on Luis Suarez' chest and countless other incidents.

    At what stage does it end?

    Its quite clear that the standard of refereeing isn't getting better. What can be done to make it better? Is a second referee needed?

    Does David Gill's position within the FA make for a conflict of interest?

    Today really should be Rubicon day for English football if the powers at be want to. I don't think they will however.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,314 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    They normally even themselves out over the season but I believe for some teams they certainly get the good side of such calls. Any speculation as to why is mostly conspiracy theory in my opinion.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 936 ✭✭✭Prick!


    Wasn't David Dein the chairman of Arsenal and on the FA board at the same time? ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,398 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    A second ref probably would have seen 4 Chelsea players sent off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    Well for offside , the game needs 2 extra linesmen ..........One to watch the last man and the other to watch the ball .

    These 2 men also need direct communication.

    Without ever studying science , it must be clear that nobody can focus their eyes on two different objects at the one time .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Look this is going to be hard to sound unbiased...,

    but there is no fücking way a club official should be vice chairman of the FA.
    I would hold this belief if it was my team who had their CEO as vice chairmen of the FA.

    Honest intentions or not they (FA) will always be open to such scrutiny and rightly so.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭MUSEIST


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    A second ref probably would have seen 4 Chelsea players sent off.

    a second ref might have sent van persie off for smacking luiz in face (I can do this sh!t too)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    A second ref probably would have seen 4 Chelsea players sent off.

    You're thinking Howard Webb, right ? ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,763 ✭✭✭Jax Teller


    Leiva wrote: »
    Look this is going to be hard to sound unbiased...,

    but there is no fücking way a club official should be vice chairman of the FA.
    I would hold this belief if it was my team who had their CEO as vice chairmen of the FA.

    Honest intentions or not they (FA) will always be open to such scrutiny and rightly so.

    Did you have this believe when David Dein was in same position as David Gill ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭MUSEIST


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    A second ref probably would have seen 4 Chelsea players sent off.

    a second ref might have sent evans off instead of torres


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,398 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    MUSEIST wrote: »
    a second ref might have sent van persie off for smacking luiz in face (I can do this sh!t too)

    Obviously not, since you missed the point entirely.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭Sergio


    Refereeing as a whole in the game needs a complete overhaul imo!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    What a predictable thread.........

    Decisions go wrong,that is the beauty of Human judgement


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,116 ✭✭✭Professional Griefer


    Ares wrote: »
    A black day today for English football.

    Liverpool with a fine goal in the 93rd minute disallowed for a wrong offside when none existed.

    Fernando Torres sent off for a non existant dive after being taken out of it by Johnny Evans.

    Javier Hernandez winner being allowed despite him being quite a bit offside.

    This comes after notable incidents already this season, Jordi Gomez and Jonjo Shelvey's wrong sending offs, Robert Huth stamping on Luis Suarez' chest and countless other incidents.

    At what stage does it end?

    Its quite clear that the standard of refereeing isn't getting better. What can be done to make it better? Is a second referee needed?

    Does David Gill's position within the FA make for a conflict of interest?

    Today really should be Rubicon day for English football if the powers at be want to. I don't think they will however.

    Don't forget Arsenals goal yesterday was offside as well.
    Leiva wrote: »
    Look this is going to be hard to sound unbiased...,

    but there is no fücking way a club official should be vice chairman of the FA.
    I would hold this belief if it was my team who had their CEO as vice chairmen of the FA.

    Honest intentions or not they (FA) will always be open to such scrutiny and rightly so.

    Why? Wasn't the vice chairman of the FA a few years ago also a director at Arsenal?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva





    Why? Wasn't the vice chairman of the FA a few years ago also a director at Arsenal?

    Yes but that was also a crazy appointment. It doesn't make Gills appointment anyless bizarre.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    I certainly think additional "assistants" at either end is worth thinking about, and that said extra officials are allowed to actual make a contribution (can't help but suspect they are for show in EL/CL games). The game has become so fast but are the refs any fitter than 15-20 years ago?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 936 ✭✭✭Prick!


    Leiva wrote: »
    Yes but that was also a crazy appointment. It doesn't make Gills appointment anyless bizarre.

    But shouldn't Arsenal have gotten some biased decisions? Or it is it just because Utd get the rub of the green?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    I think referees are great..

    Howard Webb,top man,Mark Clattenburg,top man.......:p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Prick! wrote: »
    But shouldn't Arsenal have gotten some biased decisions? Or it is it just because Utd get the rub of the green?

    I am not going there. If there is, or isn't influence then I'm afraid discussion it on the Internet won't solve anything.

    My point is that an association that should be 100% independent and perceived unbiased should not be appointing anyone to its board that is also a board member of a club in the league it is over.

    It's crazy and not seen in any other sporting organisation around the globe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,594 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    :-)

    tinfoilhat.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,270 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Howard has been on the slide for a while so we needed someone to step up and make the position their own, Mark did that. Fair play to him.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 936 ✭✭✭Prick!


    Leiva wrote: »
    I am not going there. If there is, or isn't influence then I'm afraid discussion it on the Internet won't solve anything.

    My point is that an association that should be 100% independent and perceived unbiased should not be appointing anyone to its board that is also a board member of a club in the league it is over.

    It's crazy and not seen in any other sporting organisation around the globe.

    Are you sure about that? 100% sure? ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Prick! wrote: »
    Are you sure about that? 100% sure? ;)

    Go on then.

    Show me an FA organisation that has a VC who is also CEO from a club in the league it sanctions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭Rekop dog


    You're all still talking about it after the games are over. All the newspapers/podcasts/tv shows will be debating this issue now during the week wheras if nothing controversial happened it wouldn't have got as much attention. Whether good or bad publicity I don't think the prem league decision makers mind as long as people are interested. Think this is one of the main reasons why they're reluctant to make changes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭LiamMc


    The Executive Committee of football National Associations/Federations are made up of the Football Clubs they represent. This is both Global and Worldwide.

    In England, the Premier league is run by the Premier League.
    http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/about/who-we-are.html

    The comparison of two individuals in similar posts that corrupt outcomes should emerge from both individuals is unfair.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,594 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Crinklewood


    Other bad decisions today, Sterling not being sent off for a second booking and Torres not seeing red for the foul on Cleverly.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 936 ✭✭✭Prick!


    Leiva wrote: »
    Go on then.

    Show me an FA organisation that has a VC who is also CEO from a club in the league it sanctions.

    I asked you first, you can't do that.

    You made a statement, prove your statement is right.

    It's like saying that all squirrels are gay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,993 ✭✭✭Soups123


    If we are calling out the Refs who made a mistake today and there suitability to ref future games then should we not be calling out everyone on the pitch who made an error. Should Ivanovic play at this level again.

    It's a ridiculous statement when asked of a player that makes a mistake but its perfectly normal for a ref!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Leiva wrote: »
    Go on then.

    Show me an FA organisation that has a VC who is also CEO from a club in the league it sanctions.


    One quick look, shows me the French FA



    I couldnt find a list of the Vice Chairmen from the Spanish or Italian FAs but id imagine its probably the exact same situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,066 ✭✭✭Washington Irving


    Prick! wrote: »
    I asked you first, you can't do that.

    You made a statement, prove your statement is right.

    It's like saying that all squirrels are gay.

    Your logic is flawed


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,744 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    the only reason torres was sent off was , was that king of the beautiful game, Mr. Pulis highlighted DIVING - what a great game we would have if everyone played like Stoke


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    If you ask me lads, I think there's an argument somewhere to use video replays.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    There are bad decisions being made all the time.

    I remember Bolton having decisions go against them against Stoke on the final day of last season which contributed to them being relegated. I think it's fair to say the consequences of that game were far more serious.

    No one wants to know though until it happens to the team they support. If the decisions today had happened to the likes of Reading or Q.P.R. nobody would be batting an eyelid about it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 936 ✭✭✭Prick!


    SaulGoode9 wrote: »
    Your logic is flawed

    No, unless he knows the exact make up of all the boards he can not make that statement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭markesmith


    Have to do something about it, these days the BBC Football homepage is more a site dedicated to reporting on racism and poor refereeing decisions


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭heavyballs


    Well for offside , the game needs 2 extra linesmen ..........One to watch the last man and the other to watch the ball .

    These 2 men also need direct communication.

    Without ever studying science , it must be clear that nobody can focus their eyes on two different objects at the one time .
    Top fighter pilots would like to differ,


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭LiamMc


    markesmith wrote: »
    Have to do something about it, these days the BBC Football homepage is more a site dedicated to reporting on racism and poor refereeing decisions

    There's alot of it about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Lads, these decisions happen week in, week out to the smaller teams and nothing is ever said about it. Supporters of the bigger clubs don't realise how well they have it with regards to refereeing decisions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭SirDelboy18


    Sometimes decisions don't go your clubs way, get over it. There is no conspiracy.

    If a decision ever goes the way of United, people scream conspiracy. If decisions go in favour of other teams, nothing is said. Hmmmmmm.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    When you're pretty much the last major sport in the world not using technology then serious questions have to be asked.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,461 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Ya how many people here can remember decisions good or bad that involved clubs like Sunderland, WBA, Norwich, Swansea, Aston Villa, Fulham.

    I say you could count in one hand.

    Amazing how everyone remembers when United get decisions. Just the ones in their favour.

    Then again if your obsessed........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Sometimes decisions don't go your clubs way, get over it. There is no conspiracy.

    If a decision ever goes the way of United, people scream conspiracy. If decisions go in favour of other teams, nothing is said. Hmmmmmm.

    Interesting that the poster didnt include :
    • Referee failed to send off Torres in first half for violent conduct
    • Referee failed to give United a penalty for Luiz handball
    But hey, never let facts get in the way of a good old disguised "outrage" rant thats really just an opportunity to have a bitch about decisions that supposedly only ever go uniteds way . .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭el dude


    It's a bit like the whole Jimmy Saville thing. Only after everything comes out will people turn around and see how blind they were.

    It's gone on too long and there's too many examples for it to be coincidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,461 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Think its pretty funny how everyone's having a go at the ref.

    Ivanovic red - 100%
    Torres red - he dove. The contact was minimal, he had his balance and was past the player but jumped to the floor because the ball was gone. Probably should have been sent off earlier for a kung fu kick anyway.

    The offside: Ref's don't make offside decisions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭LiamMc


    When you're pretty much the last major sport in the world not using technology then serious questions have to be asked.
    i understand you may have meant, pausing the play until a recording of previous play is analysis.
    But there is technology on the field of play e.g. communication between officials.

    Also Association football has accessibility laws for disabled footballers, sight-impaired footballers,, hearing-impaired footballers, intellectually-disadvantaged footballers. AF does this and very few other Global or Worldwide sports do this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,594 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Crinklewood



    Some people will not be able to acknowledge this.

    The obsessives will claim that these incidents did no actually happen. The TV highlights were edited by Man Utd fans to make Man Utd look hard done by.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 792 ✭✭✭KombuchaMshroom


    Ridiculous thread.

    There are wrong decisions and there are bad decisions. Yes Hernandez was offside when Rafael shoots but within half a second when it reaches Hernandez he must be 2 or 3 yards onside, easy to see how the linesman wouldn't spot it. Same logic can be used for Suarez goal but the other way around. The Torres incident is tough to call too. I watched they game with a group of United and Chelsea fans, some Chelsea fans were shouting for Torres' head over the "dive", some United fans were acknowledging how lucky we were, and vice versa.

    I'm not arguing that the offside decisions were right because it is clear for us to see with replays that both decisions were wrong. But some decisions are blatantly obvious and some are extremely tough for linesman with the speed the game is called at, the 2 in question today were both the latter.

    Its outrageous to call this english refereeing's darkest day when there have been so many far greater examples of bad decisions made by referees in the past. This is clearly just a knee-jerk over reaction from a fan whose team was obviously on the wrong end of one of these decisions.


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