Office documents in Linux

Tom Dunne

Continuing my experiment using Linux as my main OS, I'm experiencing one too many corrupted Word/Powerpoint files for my liking. I'm currently using Libre Office.

I was doing a bit of Googling and I came across Lotus Symphony. Anyone have any experience with it? According to the IBM website, it is based on Open Office 3 stream.

Or is Open Office itself the better option in terms of "most compatible".

Unfortunately, this is a major sticking point and my experiment looks like it will be coming to an end if I corrupt many more important documents.

Khannie

If you're doing a lot of document editing, a VM is really the only way to guarantee (for now at least) that you get documents looking the same way for you as for windows users unfortunately. It is really the one thing I use a VM for.

Tom Dunne

Yeah, I'm going to get our ICT guys to create me a VM on our cloud environment so I can RDP in.

I was hoping there might be a be a better way.

Losing a bit of faith in Linux in the office, I'm afraid.

GreenWolfe

Just as a headsup, IBM donated their Lotus Symphony code to the Apache OpenOffice project a while back, it isn't likely it would get any more updates.

I used it for a little while but it also had plenty of file conversion issues.

I'd agree with the VM, it looks like the best option.

Khannie

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Losing a bit of faith in Linux in the office, I'm afraid.

Stick with it, unless you do a lot of office doc editing. I will never, never look back.

djmarkus

Google docs FTW.

The future is the browser.

Red Alert

I think the newer Word formats can really play havoc with OO and similar. I use a Mac, so it doesn't as such affect me.

I really like the idea of the RDP session to a cloud Windows VM though. Also gives you the rollback/restore ability on the VM.

Johnboy1951

In an ideal world MS documents would be standards compliant and few problems would exist .... until then the only way is to deal with the docs as best you can ..... and if possible encourage the adoption of document standards such as ODF

I tried Symphony some time ago, but did not stay with it. Went back to OOo but now use LibreOffice.

These days I have no serious use of LO, so I do not notice any problems.

BopNiblets

I had some issues with .docx format recently too in LibreOffice, but I wonder if the older .doc format would be ok to use between OSes?

Tom Dunne

Khannie wrote: »

Stick with it, unless you do a lot of office doc editing. I will never, never look back.

You see that's the thing. Editing documents of various formats takes about 30% of my time. So it is a big deal.

BopNiblets wrote: »

I had some issues with .docx format recently too in LibreOffice, but I wonder if the older .doc format would be ok to use between OSes?

Yeah, I'm finding that using the .doc format appears to be the most compatible (along with .xls and .ppt). Once I get into .docx format, that's where I start seeing corrupted files.

bnt

Don't forget that Microsoft also has online Office document editing, if you have a Microsoft account with a SkyDrive (hotmail, live.<xx>, outlook.com etc.). The online editors have a reduced feature set, but compatibility is excellent, as you might expect.

Tom Dunne

bnt wrote: »

Don't forget that Microsoft also has online Office document editing, if you have a Microsoft account with a SkyDrive (hotmail, live.<xx>, outlook.com etc.). The online editors have a reduced feature set, but compatibility is excellent, as you might expect.

I might give that a go. It would be interesting to see how it copes with large, complex documents.

croo

Personally, while I would be an advocate of Open Source, I think you could waste your life trying to create documents compatible with MS documents and if you really need documents in that format then just use their software - it's not worth the trouble.

The other options are not creating documents in MS format, creating formats that include the fonts etc (i.e.PDF) so always look correct.

But if you really must have MS Docs use MS office and maybe this might be useful for using it on linux - for TODAY ONLY it seems
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056794894

Tom Dunne

croo wrote: »

it's not worth the trouble.

I think you have captured there the way I am beginning to feel about Linux on the desktop.

I can do all my sysadmin, database and web stuff in Linux, but for core office tasks, Linux is simply not up to the task.

One good thing to come out of all of this is a recent discussion with the IT manager. He has agreed that when he is throwing out old PCs (I'm talking 3-4 years old), he will outfit our computer labs with them, running Linux (I work in a college), ideal for at least 60% of our courses.

mwrf

djmarkus wrote: »

Google docs FTW.

The future is the browser.

This

Tom Dunne

mwrf wrote: »

This

No, tried it.

One particular document I have has a load of tables, these simply do not display in Google docs nor Skydrive, never mind being able to edit them.

Installing wine as we speak. Last chance saloon.

Tom Dunne

Update: Word/Excel/Powerpoint working fine under wine, now to see if I corrupt any documents.

Khannie

Just out of interest: Why wine instead of a VM?

Tom Dunne

Khannie wrote: »

Just out of interest: Why wine instead of a VM?

Quite simply because I am waiting for our IT support people to create the VM for me on the cloud environment. Installing the OS, adding it to the Domain, installing office - all stuff I would have to ask IT for anyway, so I might as well just get them to do it on a cloud VM.

I just happened to be Googling solutions and I stumbled across references to Wine and Office 10, so in the spirit of Linux, I thought I would give it a go. I hadn't thought about Wine up to that point.

Johnboy1951

seems you missed the Crossover give-away yesterday

croo

Tom Dunne wrote: »

for core office tasks, Linux is simply not up to the task.

Well that's not exactly what I say. What I said is, it is a pain creating MS compatible documents! But I can create anything with open applications that I can with MS office.

If, however, I am working at a company whose standard is MS Office and I must collaborate on documents with them then I would use MS Office.

If I need to write documents alone, or with those who are not MS orientated, I prefer to use the tools available on Linux, i.e. libre/open office (and usually with other tools like freemind (or whatever it's called now), inkscape, gimp, ArgoUML, Bonitasoft, dia) and deliver as a PDF and/or ODF format. I've also done work for companies the collaborated via google docs - and that worked quiet well too.

Tom Dunne

croo wrote: »

Well that's not exactly what I say. What I said is, it is a pain creating MS compatible documents! But I can create anything with open applications that I can with MS office.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you said that. Those were my words, not yours.

croo wrote: »

If I need to write documents alone, or with those who are not MS orientated, I prefer to use the tools available on Linux, i.e. libre/open office (and usually with other tools like freemind (or whatever it's called now), inkscape, gimp, ArgoUML, Bonitasoft, dia) and deliver as a PDF and/or ODF format. I've also done work for companies the collaborated via google docs - and that worked quiet well too.

Couldn't agree more. But I am sure we will all agree, getting an organisation to even consider non-Microsoft Office software is a big challenge. I am collaborating with colleagues using Google Docs and my perceptions are that it is too cumbersome for day-to-day use by non-technical users.

On a related note, I am delighted to report that Office 10 under Wine is working very well so far. Documents I previously had trouble with are opening and editing fine. Lets hope it stays that way.

Ranjo

I have been a staunch Linux home user for a few years, but I am feeling the pull away from it now. Office is probably the biggest pull away, even from a home-user perspective where I wouldn't even do that many docs/spread sheets/slides. Other reasons are the lack of real change in the distros I have been using, namely Mint and Ubuntu. They are, for ,y purposes, the same now as two years ago bar a few superficial changes.

It is all about cross service collaboration now across phone/pc/tablet and Linux is not part of that game. Apps on Android, iOS, Windows are booming but there's always a massive gap for Linux.

Back to MS Office, my career is in data and with the addition of PowerPivot and PowerView as standard functionality in Office 2013, that takes Libre/Appache Office out of the equation by light years. I read this article this morning too.

I'm gutted that I'm considering dropping Linux, it's been solid as a rock, but the age of collaboration and apps and sharing has dawned and Linux is left lagging with no indication of catching up.

Johnboy1951

Ranjo wrote: »

I have been a staunch Linux home user for a few years, but I am feeling the pull away from it now. Office is probably the biggest pull away, even from a home-user perspective where I wouldn't even do that many docs/spread sheets/slides. Other reasons are the lack of real change in the distros I have been using, namely Mint and Ubuntu. They are, for ,y purposes, the same now as two years ago bar a few superficial changes.

It is all about cross service collaboration now across phone/pc/tablet and Linux is not part of that game. Apps on Android, iOS, Windows are booming but there's always a massive gap for Linux.

Back to MS Office, my career is in data and with the addition of PowerPivot and PowerView as standard functionality in Office 2013, that takes Libre/Appache Office out of the equation by light years. I read this article this morning too.

I'm gutted that I'm considering dropping Linux, it's been solid as a rock, but the age of collaboration and apps and sharing has dawned and Linux is left lagging with no indication of catching up.

Thanks for the link .... I had not read it.

It seems that they introduced OO and allowed users to choose which they would use ..... not really certain as I am depending on Google translate as I could not find an English version of the documents (not unsurprisingly).

It further appears that presentations were processed more by OO than MSO, but both text and spreadsheets were processed by MSO rather than OO by approx 2:1.

It reads to me that there was a failure in implementation.

Therefore, the parallel use of the two Office solutions leads to inefficiencies when switching between products.

It reminds me of OS users switching to Linux and expecting to have a very very slightly different MS Windows, and not a different but equally capable system.

I don't see how such parallel use of two different office suites could work unless a common known and approved standard for sharing documents is used.
To me that standard is ODF.
If another standard is to be used then surely they must have done their homework and made sure the two suites could manage all that was required.
Yet it seems they did not do this .... I can see no other reason for difficulties after 4 years of use.

If ODF (or another approved standard of interoperability) is not suitable, or cannot be made suitable, for their purpose then I do not see the point in doing what they apparently did ....... introduce a mixture of office suites with one trying as best it could to meet the requirements of the other, but never being able to from the beginning.

IMO, such a scheme is doomed from the very start.

microsoft_user

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Yeah, I'm going to get our ICT guys to create me a VM on our cloud environment so I can RDP in.

I was hoping there might be a be a better way.

Losing a bit of faith in Linux in the office, I'm afraid.

What frightens me, is that somebody who works in education, claims Linux Office is inferior, because it does not support a closed standard. Microsoft does not support GNU/Linux LibreOffice, not the other way around. Use ODF in LibreOffice and you can share between Word and LibreOffice. Better yet, scrap the childish WYSIWYG office system and use a proper publishing tool, LaTex. There is a frontend called LyX for people who are afraid of the Unix command line. I wrote several thesis reports in TeX. It's not GNU/Linux's fault that it does not support childs toy formats. This is a political decision on behald of Microsoft, nothing to do with GNU/Linux.

Must be some sort of conspiracy going on in Irish Education. Who would even dream of using a non Microsoft format? Well, I hate to break it to ya, but Microsoft Office isn't the only game in town. TeX is the traditional format used in Academia, and has been around FAR longer than MS office. It's worth learning. If you can't offer alternatives for saving money in your department, at least educate your students about these alternatives. They will thank you.

Tom Dunne

microsoft_user wrote: »

What frightens me, is that somebody who works in education, claims Linux Office is inferior, because it does not support a closed standard.

Can you show me where I said Linux is inferior? Oh wait, you can't, because you can't stand over your comments and engage in debate. Instead you close your account.

microsoft_user wrote: »

Microsoft does not support GNU/Linux LibreOffice, not the other way around. Use ODF in LibreOffice and you can share between Word and LibreOffice. Better yet, scrap the childish WYSIWYG office system and use a proper publishing tool, LaTex.

Have you any idea what you are talking about? How do I interact with non-academics? I am sure the finance department would love my yearly budget in Latex format? And the Purchasing department would love my list of equipment in Latex format, I am sure. How about the end of year reports? I am sure the Quality department would be completely au fait with Latex. And what about students? No students, you can't submit your work in Word/ODF/ODT/PDF - submit it in Latex.

microsoft_user wrote: »

There is a frontend called LyX for people who are afraid of the Unix command line. I wrote several thesis reports in TeX. It's not GNU/Linux's fault that it does not support childs toy formats. This is a political decision on behald of Microsoft, nothing to do with GNU/Linux.

But you are spectacularly missing the point. The point is not for publishing theses, the point is day-to-day operations of an academic department. You know, where we interact with non-academic departments, swap documents, etc. Your posts are display a significant ignorance of how an institution works.

microsoft_user wrote: »

Must be some sort of conspiracy going on in Irish Education.

Again more ignorance - who says I work in Ireland?

microsoft_user wrote: »

Who would even dream of using a non Microsoft format? Well, I hate to break it to ya, but Microsoft Office isn't the only game in town. TeX is the traditional format used in Academia, and has been around FAR longer than MS office. It's worth learning. If you can't offer alternatives for saving money in your department, at least educate your students about these alternatives. They will thank you.

Well I hate to break it to you, academic institutions do a lot more than publish papers. I suggest you visit one some time and educate yourself.

croo

Ranjo wrote: »

It is all about cross service collaboration now across phone/pc/tablet and Linux is not part of that game. Apps on Android, iOS, Windows are booming but there's always a massive gap for Linux.

except android is linux... linux and java. I fail to see how linux is behind in the game. It more than any is cross service as it's most likely running your tv and other electronic devices around you r house too. IOS is restricted to you high value mac and idevice... looks to me like apple are on route for a repeat performance of apple versus the srandard of the day. It just barely survived that last time. And windows... well they're just joining the party and have a lot of catching up to do.

Ranjo

croo wrote: »

except android is linux... linux and java. I fail to see how linux is behind in the game. It more than any is cross service as it's most likely running your tv and other electronic devices around you r house too.

You're talking about the kernel in those cases. And don't get my wrong I agree that the Linux kernel is a winner - I read recently that (this is from memory, so isn't a direct quote) 90% of the top 500 super-computers run the Linux kernel.

The cross-service I'm talking about is compatibility across multiple interface services, like cloud storage/contacts/photos and collaboration software. Adding to that, My opinion is that the selection of software in the repository (I use the Ubuntu one) has not changed much over the last 3-4 years.

You're right about Windows joining the party, but Linux (operating systems, not the kernel) hasn't joined the party at all. To the topic of the original post, I'm finding LibreOffice getting way behind the game now.

hardCopy

djmarkus wrote: »

Google docs FTW.

The future is the browser.

Not for anything involving headers, footers, tables or images unfortunately.

We use it for storing and sharing all of our sales quotes and marketing material internally but as these are quite visual they're a not even readable, never mind trying to edit them.

PrzemoF

Looks like MS have to send an envoy to "fix" that problem :

Portuguese government goes ODF only

"The selection of ODF means that the ISO standard OOXML, pushed by Microsoft, is not eligible to be used even though it is technically an open standard. The decision does not mean that Microsoft's Office suite cannot be used: Office is also capable of working with the ODF files."

http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Portuguese-government-goes-ODF-only-1753597.html

Johnboy1951

PrzemoF wrote: »

Looks like MS have to send an envoy to "fix" that problem :

Portuguese government goes ODF only

"The selection of ODF means that the ISO standard OOXML, pushed by Microsoft, is not eligible to be used even though it is technically an open standard. The decision does not mean that Microsoft's Office suite cannot be used: Office is also capable of working with the ODF files."

http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Portuguese-government-goes-ODF-only-1753597.html

I wish other bodies would do the same ....