Bad Diesel from <SNIP>

sandin

waverock11 wrote: »

As for documented proof I asked two qualified mechanics who are trained in Nissan to check it. They are professionals.

sorry, but no court will take the word of 2 qualified mechanics with regard to a the quality of a refined oil. They have no qualification in the area whatsoever. Nissan neither drill for oil or refine it - so they are no good either. NSAI are the guys you need to call.

as for refund - would you rely on a customer's word that 0.25% of a mixed product was faulty and the other 99.75% was fine? (The fuel storage in that station is 3 x 40,000 litre tanks according to planning docs). Also Statoil supplies diesel to a large supermarket chain in Ireland.


Your facts are pointing to a car that was running almost on empty though this does depend on the car tank itself, but the majority of Nissan tanks are 65 litres and your "fill" was just over 65 litres, so this suggest the car was running on the dregs of the tank immediate prior to fuelling - surely this COULD be a factor especially when all the diesel comes from one refinery and the tanker that delivered it would hold up to 100,000 litres and delievered the EXACT same product to other stations in the area and not one other person seems to have had a problem??? - Would that alone not make you check other avenues just to be sure??

Guy:Incognito

waverock11 wrote: »

Guy incognito, ever got a bad pint in a pub, a bad fountain drink in a fast food outlet? It can happen and does. usually its not a big deal. Same with diesel. I will wait for the analysis to see what it was. (if it was pure diesel it would have fired in the cylinders properly)

Both of those would be down to a problem with the preparation process. Neither soft drinks nor beer are delivered to where you buy them fully prepared and in massive tanks. Gasses etc are added to syrup to make and then deliver you your drink. Fuel comes as is and is pumped straight from a big tank to your car, nothing added during each individual delivery to make it what your car uses.

L1011

sandin wrote: »

, but the majority of tanks are 65 litres

This is absolutely and utterly not the case.

sandin

MYOB wrote: »

This is absolutely and utterly not the case.

sorry - majority of NISSAN tanks are 65l unless its a small Nissan and they are 46l.

The only one higher is the Murano at 70l, but as its petrol only, this can be discounted.

Therefore by deduction the vehicle in question is either a Quashquai or an X-Trail.

btw - info for the OP. If you have a diesel Quashqai (apples to other new diesel cars too) and use it just for city driving, you need to take it out for a long run every now and then to clean the filters. Running it near empty makes this issue worse. - Possibly its Nissan themselves you need to start looking at!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2011/10/diesel_particulate_filters.html

waverock11

Guys, its a pathfinder. The tank holds 80 litres. There was about 14 litres before it was filled up. I put about a €100 fill in it every week. so it gets a log run nearly every day.I cant imagine going to a pub getting a crappy pint and having the barman tell me I could be defaming him when I mention it, being told he doesnt make the stuff, being told he will check with his supplier, etc etc. For heavens sake would you not just pull another pint and aoplogise. the customer has paid for a pint in good faith. I think we are going up hill and down dale to find a reason why the most logical reason is not the real reason for the problem. Lets wait and see what the customs and excise analysis finds. If they say " that Diesel is ok, nothing wrong with it" then fair enough.

waverock11

Sandin and Guy Incognito, can you tell me hand on heart that you are not playing devils advocate? If you are both serious then I think you would be great senior councils in the law library..

sandin

waverock11 wrote: »

Sandin and Guy Incognito, can you tell me hand on heart that you are not playing devils advocate? If you are both serious then I think you would be great senior councils in the law library..

It was my first choice career but other things got in the way - still sort of wish I followed that path!
Yes, playing devils advocate, always look for the opposing side of the case. If there's no opposing case, then you can go 100% certain you're right. In this case there are other possibilities and you need to know that before making an accusation against a large or any.company.

I still reckon its an unfortunate consequence. It may even be a consequence of the station getting a delivery just before you filled up and sediment got swirled around. - this may explain why others were nit affected.

tipptom

How do we know others are not affected,outlet is not going to shout about it if there was more cars affected,more like ride it out and hope there is no troublesome tenacious ones who follow it up.

sandin

tipptom wrote: »

How do we know others are not affected,outlet is not going to shout about it if there was more cars affected,more like ride it out and hope there is no troublesome tenacious ones who follow it up.

Tank 40,000 litres, average fill = 30 litres, total number using that tank with that batch = about 1100 motorists.

1100 motorists with problem engines within a 2 day period in same area? - I'd reckon we'd have heard about it by now!!

It did actually happen in the UK once - a lot of water had got into a tank whilst filling and it made BBC news that day.

Guy:Incognito

waverock11 wrote: »

cant imagine going to a pub getting a crappy pint and having the barman tell me I could be defaming him when I mention it, being told he doesnt make the stuff, being told he will check with his supplier, etc etc. For heavens sake would you not just pull another pint and aoplogise. the customer has paid for a pint in good faith. I.

Your proving my point here. There isn't a little bubble of bad beer floating in the keg and you get all of it in one pint meaning the rest is grand. If the whole keg is bad it doesn't matter how many more pints he pulls, they'll all be bad. Just like the petrol. However, if its an issue with too much gas or syrup and the pint is bad, you can pull another one. With the petrol tank, there isn't the scope for a "bad pint".

tipptom

sandin wrote: »

Tank 40,000 litres, average fill = 30 litres, total number using that tank with that batch = about 1100 motorists.

1100 motorists with problem engines within a 2 day period in same area? - I'd reckon we'd have heard about it by now!!

It did actually happen in the UK once - a lot of water had got into a tank whilst filling and it made BBC news that day.

MM yea,but could have been a slight mess up with additives,water etc,most of the cars worked their way through it,some didnt,retailer vacumed it out after the first initial complaints.We dont have the same complaint culture as the UK.

emo72

i filled up a major supermarket forecourt on sunday and my diesel 1.8 mondeo has been terrible too. mechanic is looking at it tomorrow. if the OP can pm me his details of who he bought it off that would be great. wont name them in case its unrelated.

waverock11

Tipptom, thats the type of thing I was thinking of. Some people think there is a magic forcefield that protects this retailer from selling anything less than perfect diesel! Between additives, conditions of fuel lines, fuel tanker, fuel tank, cleaning etc there is room for something to go wrong. When they add chlorine to a swimming pool its a tiny amount addded. But if you are right next to the spot where the attendant pours in the chlorine you could get a mouthful of water with a higher concentration.

jackofalltrades

sandin wrote: »

btw - info for the OP. If you have a diesel Quashqai (apples to other new diesel cars too) and use it just for city driving, you need to take it out for a long run every now and then to clean the filters. Running it near empty makes this issue worse. - Possibly its Nissan themselves you need to start looking at!!

Can you explain this for me please?

tipptom

waverock11 wrote: »

Tipptom, thats the type of thing I was thinking of. Some people think there is a magic forcefield that protects this retailer from selling anything less than perfect diesel! Between additives, conditions of fuel lines, fuel tanker, fuel tank, cleaning etc there is room for something to go wrong. When they add chlorine to a swimming pool its a tiny amount addded. But if you are right next to the spot where the attendant pours in the chlorine you could get a mouthful of water with a higher concentration.

I think every thing comes down to the test on the fuel that came out of your car and even then they can say this was contaminated by your tank,mechanic,you etc etc and that this is your own test,its a tough one,but fair play to you for sticking with it.

emo72

OP has contacted me. we bought from the same supermarket, curious to see if its the same branch. there could be something in this. my mechanic has recommended changing the fuel filter.

wmpdd3

emo72 wrote: »

OP has contacted me. we bought from the same supermarket, curious to see if its the same branch. there could be something in this. my mechanic has recommended changing the fuel filter.

See if it was the same pump, I think its on the receipt. That may narrow it down to one tank out of 3. Was it the same day?

waverock11

It was same company, different location. I would mention to the mechanic that you are concerned with the diesel that was put in it. If he thinks it is the problem I would have it pumped out and keep samples to send to customs and excise who will analyse it. I had mine pumped out and a new fuel filter fitted.

Podge72

Filled my car with diesel from a station in Cork last Friday, it packed up 10mins later, got it recovered to local main dealer, they have drain the tank and what came out could only be described as dish water.Estimate of repairs is in the region of 4k, new pump and injector. Have employed a motor assessor to sample diesel and send for testing, he says its the worst diesel he's ever seen. Also contacted solictor who tells me she has 4 other clients with similar cases from same service station, one who filled up around same time on Friday. There was an oil truck filling there tanks at the time which could mean dirt or sludge was drawn up.
I informed my insurance company who also sent out there assessor, not sure where that will lead but worth a try as legal action will be slow.
This problem seem to be rampant at the moment, with the service stations giving the standard answer of "we get our fuel in the same place as everyone else" But who regulates the state of there tanks?

sandin

Podge72 wrote: »

This problem seem to be rampant at the moment, with the service stations giving the standard answer of "we get our fuel in the same place as everyone else" But who regulates the state of there tanks?

NSAI do the tank testing, pump testing & measurement testing www.nsai.ie

Also, whilst some stations do put in additives, almost all fuel comes from the same refineries, hence its usually a local issue when there's bad fuel, such as sediment and a near empty undergound tank or a recent delivery of fuel that stirs up sediment but also sediment in cars can suddenly cause problems having been built up over a period.

A small amount of sediment causes no probelms but a small amount every couple of weeks eventually causes problems.

foggy_lad

Could the fuel have been "washed"?

emo72

foggy_lad wrote: »

Could the fuel have been "washed"?

i really doubt it. the large chain i bought it from would have no need to do that.

Podge72

emo72 wrote: »

i really doubt it. the large chain i bought it from would have no need to do that.

Same here, more likely just dirty diesel, but will know more when test results come back.

MarkR

Did you get any timeframe for how long before you hear back?

Podge72

MarkR wrote: »

Did you get any timeframe for how long before you hear back?

Couple of days I think, but this is Ireland. Will post when I get them. Test is 250euro +vat.

MarkR

That's a bit of a outlay! Hope you get the results you're looking for OP too.

waverock11

Some philosopher once said, "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." I think we are going to see dirty fuel is not an isolated incident..

Menas

Hey Op, any update on this one?

waverock

I rang the lady in customs and excise last week. She said they dont have the analysis done yet. Hopefully soon and she will call me. Also rang my solicitor who said that the retailer has no responded yet. I asked him to chase them up which he said he would do. I am kind of hoping to have the analysis done before they respond though as then they will have the conclusive evidence that the diesel the sold me was bad. Then they cant say " we accept no liability but will make a good will gesture" I want them to realise that the stuff was bad and that they should reimburse people when they sell crap diesel, not give them a runaround. As an aside, when the lady from customs and excise picked up the sample a few weeks ago i asker her off hand if they had seen problems with diesel. She told me that they have seen a problem with what she called "acidity" and that there is like a ph scale and she has seen acidic diesel stop some engines from running..

repsol

I know a lady that works in a major upmarket car dealership and they have had lots of cars coming in with fuel related issues.One in particular was a two day old car so sludge etc can be ruled out .The same petrol stations are being blamed over and over again.Revenue should be test sampling these places every day to sort this out