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Taxing a commercial vehicle without a VAT number

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    #62
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    bigroad wrote: »
    Are they saying that a taxi ,which is on cheap psv tax can also be used for private use and a lot of them are anyway.
    They cant have one law for psv and another for commercially taxed vehicles.

    No.
    They are saying that taxi or hackney, taxed as so, can't be used for private purposes at all.


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    #63
    Chimaera
    Registered Users Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭Chimaera


    CiniO wrote: »
    It doesn't.

    Have a look:
    This is definition from MOTOR VEHICLE (DUTIES AND LICENCES) ACT 2013 of vehicles which can be taxed under "commercial vehicle" tax class.

    Is says clearly they must be used for conveyance of goods in the course of trade or business, but it doesn't say anywhere that they can be used only for this purpose.

    That is the definition of what vehicles may qualify for commercial tax. It doesn't state the situations in which a qualifying vehicle can or should be taxed commercially.


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    #64
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    any vehicle (other than a vehicle constructed or adapted for use and used for the conveyance of a machine, workshop, contrivance or implement, by or in which goods being conveyed by such vehicle are processed or manufactured while the vehicle is in motion) constructed or adapted for use and used only for the conveyance of a machine, workshop, contrivance or implement (being a machine, workshop, contrivance or implement which is built in as part of the vehicle or otherwise permanently attached thereto) and no other load except articles used in connection with such machine, workshop, contrivance or implement or goods processed or manufactured therein including any vehicle (commonly known as a recovery vehicle) constructed or permanently adapted for the purposes of lifting, towing and transporting a disabled vehicle or for any one or more of those purposes,

    3rd of the way down. Starting with "and only used for"


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CiniO wrote: »
    No.
    They are saying that taxi or hackney, taxed as so, can't be used for private purposes at all.

    I'd say every taxi in the county is used for private use also.


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    #66
    bigroad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,069 ✭✭✭bigroad


    If the commercial taxed vehicle is needed for 24/7 on call work ,then the owner or worker needs that vehicle with them 24/7 as such.
    I think if your out socializing or going on holiday with you crewcab jeep full with family.i think that is taking the p1ss.
    I someone who recently bought a top of the range crewcab jeep as the three seat transit van they had could not fit his family.Both are commercially taxed and he is not worried and he is not the only one out there.


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    #67
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    any vehicle (other than a vehicle constructed or adapted for use and used for the conveyance of a machine, workshop, contrivance or implement, by or in which goods being conveyed by such vehicle are processed or manufactured while the vehicle is in motion) constructed or adapted for use and used only for the conveyance of a machine, workshop, contrivance or implement (being a machine, workshop, contrivance or implement which is built in as part of the vehicle or otherwise permanently attached thereto) and no other load except articles used in connection with such machine, workshop, contrivance or implement or goods processed or manufactured therein including any vehicle (commonly known as a recovery vehicle) constructed or permanently adapted for the purposes of lifting, towing and transporting a disabled vehicle or for any one or more of those purposes,

    3rd of the way down. Starting with "and only used for"

    Yes, but that applies to the likes of towing trucks.
    Not to regular transit or berlingo.


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    #68
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    You can all start hating me now. Drove a commercial transit down west for the weekend, with, wait for it, commercial tax.

    Got stopped outside Longford at a checkpoint with in date Tax, insurance and CVRT disc and got waved on. Grand.


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    #69
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    doesn't make it legal though....and not telling when you might come a cropper.


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    #70
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    Mycroft H wrote: »
    You can all start hating me now. Drove a commercial transit down west for the weekend, with, wait for it, commercial tax.

    Got stopped outside Longford at a checkpoint with in date Tax, insurance and CVRT disc and got waved on. Grand.

    Personally I'll pay the least tax I can. If I was to tax mine private it'd be 770 which in my opinion is ridiculous.

    I don't think any tax should be over 4-500

    If tax rates were reasonably there would be less avoidance


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    #71
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    there's a reason why some tax rates are higher than others. The days of avoidance are drawing to a close. It won't be long until we follow the UK...No SORD, No Tax = fine in the post.


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    #72
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    corktina wrote: »
    there's a reason why some tax rates are higher than others.
    Yes, there is. Using those various tax rates government is telling the society what cars they should be driving.
    That's fairly normal for communist countries, but things like that shouldn't be happening In a free country like Ireland.
    The days of avoidance are drawing to a close. It won't be long until we follow the UK...No SORD, No Tax = fine in the post.
    Well even if it happens, it still won't change anything and it wont stop the avoidance. People will be driving with SORDed car like they are doing already.


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    #73
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    CiniO wrote: »
    Yes, there is. Using those various tax rates government is telling the society what cars they should be driving.
    That's fairly normal for communist countries, but things like that shouldn't be happening In a free country like Ireland.


    Well even if it happens, it still won't change anything and it wont stop the avoidance. People will be driving with SORDed car like they are doing already.

    I'm not going to argue with you, just going to say ANPR. We are only toying with it, they have masses of them in the UK for this very reason. Drive on a SORD = fine in the post.


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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The proper way to do it is that the tax should be decided on the vehicle type not on its use.

    All commercial vehicles should be taxed as commercial regardless of use. Same as all commercial vehicles pay a lower rate of VRT regardless of use and are required to undergo a CVRT test rather than an NCT.


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    #75
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Jurnee Old-fashioned Compass wrote: »
    The proper way to do it is that the tax should be decided on the vehicle type not on its use.

    All commercial vehicles should be taxed as commercial regardless of use. Same as all commercial vehicles pay a lower rate of VRT regardless of use and are required to undergo a CVRT test rather than an NCT.

    But the cheaper tax is a concession for business users. Follow your suggestion and let every tom dick and paddy in, and you'd have to increase the tax for business users, and we'd all pay for them


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    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    corktina wrote: »
    But the cheaper tax is a concession for business users. Follow your suggestion and let every tom dick and paddy in, and you'd have to increase the tax for business users, and we'd all pay for them

    Sure as it stands anyone who has a commercial is already taxing it commercially bar a few "do gooders" and an odd person who is being prevented at the tax office and can't get a work around.

    What percentage of commercials are taxed privately in the country as it stands, 5% maybe if even.

    Even look at the article in the other thread about 5 seat commercials, they are being sold as a commercial for business and family use with cheap tax, cheap vrt etc. More and more people are going to be driving commercials for personal use now with these being sold.


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    #77
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    corktina wrote: »
    I'm not going to argue with you, just going to say ANPR. We are only toying with it, they have masses of them in the UK for this very reason. Drive on a SORD = fine in the post.

    Well if ANPR is spread all over the country, then yes - this indeed will make a difference.
    There was no even a need to introduce those silly declarations, just start with ANPR rollout. Anyone caught driving untaxed should be fined.

    Instead, they introduced SORD system, which changed nothing.

    Exactly as you say - when ANPR will be rolled out through the country, then this will make a difference. However I can't see this happening anytime soon.


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    #78
    McGilla
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭McGilla


    Hi all,
    I'm looking at setting up a business in the very near futurebut I haven't made the full leap, as I am currently employed.
    I want to buy a commercial jeep taht i can use for current job and new business.

    Will I have difficulty Taxing a commercial vehilce, without a business to attach it to?

    Any help is much appreciated.

    Thanks a mil,

    Bob


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    #79
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    You will have to declare you will only use it Commercially. It sounds like you wont be able to do that


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    #80
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    Once you sign the declaration I don't see why you would have trouble


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    #81
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    McGilla wrote: »
    Hi all,
    I'm looking at setting up a business in the very near futurebut I haven't made the full leap, as I am currently employed.
    I want to buy a commercial jeep taht i can use for current job and new business.

    Will I have difficulty Taxing a commercial vehilce, without a business to attach it to?

    Any help is much appreciated.

    Thanks a mil,

    Bob


    Full leap or not you should still have the business tax registered, not only can you then avail of capital equipment write downs but you can tax it legitamitly as a commercial, the enforcement of only using it for business use is (to all purposes ) non existant but the enforcement on tax avoidence is to the fore.

    Best to consult with a tax advisor IMO


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