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How Clean is Triathlon overall

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    #62
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    So I've been accused of being the type of person that dopes......

    Lets look at the argument put forward.

    The argument suggested that the type of person that is likely to dope is a type-A personality, competive type. The type of person who wants to win at all costs. The type that drafts. Drafting is a type of cheating. So its been said that the type of person who dopes is the type of person who cheats. Makes sense. As an aside cutting a course is a type of cheating.

    It could be argued that the type of person who is unlikely to cheat, who is unlikely to draft or dope, is the type of person who when faced with a choice of doing what is easy or doing what is right does what is right, even though they know fine well that there will be long lasting and far reaching consequences for themselves.

    So I would argue that the over-riding factor in determining who is likely to dope or not is not a persons type of personality but their moral fibre, their moral code.

    Just saying.


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    #63
    BennyMul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭BennyMul


    It would help the USADA and IOC if you could profile cheaters.


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    #64
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    We have snipped a few posts in this thread. The Tri community in Ireland is pretty small, and doping speculation is not permitted.


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    #65
    TriWazza
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭TriWazza


    Interesting discussion.

    My own take on the whole thing is

    In LD triathlon I'm sure it goes on among professional athletes. I don't think testing both in and out of competition is at the level its needs to be and never will be if the sport remains as a sport that is governed by a company that is owned by a private equity company.

    In SC and ITU level I'm in no doubt it also goes on. The biological passport probably makes it more difficult but I'm sure it goes on. To what extent I couldn't tell you but I would guess it goes on a lot less than people would think. I think the skill set required to be successful at WTS is something that can't be achieved solely through PEDs.

    I agree with Tunney that its a confluence of factors that make an athlete (regardless of level or ability) to use PEDs. I think its easy to single out a particular personality type and say that that group is at risk of doping but I don't think its correct. Life is not black and white but rather grey.

    Do I think intentional doping goes on amongst AG athletes in Ireland? No. I wouldn't think the results suggest that and if it does I would think they are ineffective.

    I'm not even going to get into the drafting debate.


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    #66
    TRR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    Was out in my local pub last night and a group of 8 lads who drink there have completed an IM in the last few months, they all have a GAA background and are new to tri. 3 of them openly admitted to using some pretty serious banned substances while training this summer. I initially thought they were taking the piss but apparently not. All purchased online. In hindsight the same guys had a penchant for recreational drugs until recently so maybe it's not that surprising.


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    #67
    Bambaata
    Registered Users Posts: 4,086 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    Thats mad. I use to dj a lot and obviously would be out seeing all sorts going on. I was generally only one a few who never did anything. My reasoning was I was health conscious. I couldnt dream of taking something then and it rolls through to this area too, that and the whole cheating side of things. I could never see myself cheating, its a matter of principle for me.


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    #68
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    I was a big fan of recreational drugs back in my misspent (or well-spent) youth, but wouldn't see PEDs as the same sort of thing at all


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    #69
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Naively, I'd never even have considered that your average, technically recreational, athlete would be doing things like that. Pretty sickening to think that people who are thought of as being on the same level as you could be using something while you have to keep picking yourself up and dusting yourself off.

    Don't get the point, even at AG level in Ireland, it's not like it'd be for financial gain?


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    #70
    TRR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    RayCun wrote: »
    I was a big fan of recreational drugs back in my misspent (or well-spent) youth, but wouldn't see PEDs as the same sort of thing at all

    True but did you physically inject any of those recreational drugs? These guys were injecting PEDs and would have injected certain recreational drugs in the past, well one of them definitely. I know there is no documented link but it just seemed some sort of logical/illogical step to me.
    RacoonQueen wrote: »
    Naively, I'd never even have considered that your average, technically recreational, athlete would be doing things like that. Pretty sickening to think that people who are thought of as being on the same level as you could be using something while you have to keep picking yourself up and dusting yourself off.

    Don't get the point, even at AG level in Ireland, it's not like it'd be for financial gain?

    The gas thing is these guys wouldn't even feature near the top of AG results. Mid table at best. Fastest finisher was over 12 hours.


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    #71
    hf4z6sqo7vjngi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    TRR Epo? Don't answer if you don't want to.


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    #72
    hf4z6sqo7vjngi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    TRR wrote: »
    The gas thing is these guys wouldn't even feature near the top of AG results. Mid table at best. Fastest finisher was over 12 hours.

    This is the part i do not understand, not withstanding i hate fvking cheaters. Why take PED's and cheat to finish mid pack or worse:confused:


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    #73
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Azariah Helpless Bazooka wrote: »
    This is the part i do not understand, not withstanding i hate fvking cheaters. Why take PED's and cheat to finish mid pack or worse:confused:

    'Cos now they get to boast about a 12 hour IM instead of a 16 hour IM? :confused:
    Makes you wonder how many mid-packers could be doing it, no drug testing for your average recreational athlete.

    Think I need to brush up on my illegal performance enhancing drugs. Other than EPO, what is there? :pac:


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    #74
    TRR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    Azariah Helpless Bazooka wrote: »
    TRR Epo? Don't answer if you don't want to.

    EPO and testosterone. These lads wouldn't be the brightest so god only knows how much or little they were administrating. If Lances's program was sophisticated there's could be described as disorganised at best.
    Azariah Helpless Bazooka wrote: »
    This is the part i do not understand, not withstanding i hate fvking cheaters. Why take PED's and cheat to finish mid pack or worse:confused:

    Looking for shortcuts, honestly the 2 guys I had talked to over the last 9 months weren't putting the hours in. They'd be competitive with one another as well so if one took it I reckon the other would follow suit just so he would not be at a disadvantage.


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    #75
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    TRR wrote: »
    True but did you physically inject any of those recreational drugs? These guys were injecting PEDs and would have injected certain recreational drugs in the past, well one of them definitely. I know there is no documented link but it just seemed some sort of logical/illogical step to me.

    No, and I see your point about injections.
    It's a long time since I took a pill either, and I'd be very hesitant about taking one now.


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    #76
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Azariah Helpless Bazooka wrote: »
    Why take PED's and cheat to finish mid pack or worse:confused:

    Shortcut to not having to put in the proper work. Somehow by fooling themselves they think they are fooling others and have some sort of upperhand. A bit like the Princess Bride, 'I know something you don't know' mindset.

    The psychology of the cheater is an area I would love to read and understand more about, simply from a curiousity point of view. Having read Chris Coopers book 'Run, swim, throw, cheat' (highly recommend it) its obvious the diminishing returns apply to the more highly trained athlete and a mid pack AGer who dopes will see such a dramatic upswing in ability without any extra work, the 'reward' is justifiable risk in their mind.


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    #77
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Azariah Helpless Bazooka wrote: »
    This is the part i do not understand, not withstanding i hate fvking cheaters. Why take PED's and cheat to finish mid pack or worse:confused:

    We all know people whose self-esteem is so low they need to be constantly validated by others.

    "Oh you're great, your so fast/slim/skirts so short" etc


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    #78
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    ^ you forgot "tall"


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    #79
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    amphkingwest wrote: »
    ^ you forgot "tall"

    No I deliberately left that out. Ulster women are strong willed and scary* and I'll be meeting his taller half at the Club Christmas party so I'm being nice so she won't beat me up.


    *married to an ulster woman


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    #80
    hf4z6sqo7vjngi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    tunney wrote: »
    No I deliberately left that out. Ulster women are strong willed and scary* and I'll be meeting his taller half at the Club Christmas party so I'm being nice so she won't beat me up.

    *married to an ulster woman

    She will kick your a$$, i have begged her not to wear high heels out on the club night in fear of being ridiculed!


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    #81
    pgibbo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    Based on how often you've mentioned the high heels over the last 2 days I'm wondering if you'll show up to the party wearing them! :D


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    #82
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/A_4_year_doping_ban_for_Fretta_3219.html

    Tip of the iceberg stuff.


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    #83
    BTH
    Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    amphkingwest wrote: »
    http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/A_4_year_doping_ban_for_Fretta_3219.html

    Tip of the iceberg stuff.

    His second offence apparently. 4 years is too soft.


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