How Clean is Triathlon overall

Brick Session

Given the recent revelations about Lance and now it seems that the UCI may have their own questions to answer I wondered today as to how long it will be before the questions are asked of Triathlon.

To race an Ironman at the pace that the pros in our sport can maintain is astonishing. We all know the work and sacrifice that goes into each swim stroke, each turn of the pedal and every time a foot strikes the ground on a run.

But I can't help but ask the question, is it all clean and fair, for the love of God I hope so.

tunney

Brick Session wrote: »

Given the recent revelations about Lance and now it seems that the UCI may have their own questions to answer I wondered today as to how long it will be before the questions are asked of Triathlon.

To race an Ironman at the pace that the pros in our sport can maintain is astonishing. We all know the work and sacrifice that goes into each swim stroke, each turn of the pedal and every time a foot strikes the ground on a run.

But I can't help but ask the question, is it all clean and fair, for the love of God I hope so.

You don't need to look at ironman and you don't need to look at pros. You don't even need to look too far.

Chartsengrafs

I knew it.

Brick Session

tunney wrote: »

You don't need to look at ironman and you don't need to look at pros. You don't even need to look too far.

Forgive me cos I live under a rock most of the time but is it that close to us?

Ah well I am happy to do an Olympic in 3 hours and an Ironman in 16 hours knowing I did it clean.

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

You don't need to look at ironman and you don't need to look at pros. You don't even need to look too far.

Is Tunney about to do a Lance on us?

BTH

amphkingwest wrote: »

Is Tunney about to do a Lance on us?

I reckon we'll have JB and Tango on before hand in the Landis and Hamilton roles.

MrCreosote

Look at the recent age grouper in Kona that got done. It's very easy to get doping products like testosterone in places like the US perfectly legally, because of bullsh*t "diseases" like andropause. Apparently that's the excuse he's using.

The WTC are the same guys who were falling over backwards to get Lance into Kona while he had the federal investigation ongoing, and apparently are considering unsigning from WADA so they can get him in next year.

Look at Macca's comments on Lance recently- the usual "he never failed a test" crap. They're pros- they just want the cash.

sconhome

BTH wrote: »

I reckon we'll have JB and Tango on before hand in the Landis and Hamilton roles.

They are his domestiques at the moment.

catweazle

BTH wrote: »

I reckon we'll have JB and Tango on before hand in the Landis and Hamilton roles.

I would guess Tunney is on the diet pills and Jacky is knocking back the growth hormones

BTH

catweazle wrote: »

I would guess Tunney is on the diet pills and Jacky is knocking back the growth hormones

Neither are working.

mloc123

BTH wrote: »

Neither are working.

The problem is they mixed up the bottles..

promethius

hard to imagine it's not going on to be honest, it's so easy to get stuff now
some of the massive improvements in performance you'd see don't seem to make any sense.
depressing thoughts to be honest.

BTH

promethius wrote: »

hard to imagine it's not going on to be honest, it's so easy to get stuff now
some of the massive improvements in performance you'd see don't seem to make any sense.
depressing thoughts to be honest.

Hey, I trained hard.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

mloc123 wrote: »

The problem is they mixed up the bottles..

I cannot help but laugh at this, well played.

promethius

over on slowtwitch a user posted this picture of a sign he saw at a hotel when taking part in an ironman in the area.

BennyMul

so its fair to say its no cleaner or dirtier than any other sport.

Brick Session

BennyMul wrote: »

so its fair to say its no cleaner or dirtier than any other sport.

it definitely looks that way Brendan. I suppose it stands to reason. a pity really!

promethius

BennyMul wrote: »

so its fair to say its no cleaner or dirtier than any other sport.

that's debatable since unlike say ball sports, there's a lot less skill invovled (fair enough the swim requires some finesse).

a footballer with a bad first touch, poor tackling etc aint gonna change that with any ammount of doping. fair enough his fitness can improve but that's only one element of the overall sport, unlike triathlon where it's most of it.

but the thing that bugs me lately is looking around and wondering what's real and what's something else altogether.

mloc123

When you consider that amateur sportif cyclists have tested positive in the US I'd imagine even AG tri must be no different.

d4r3n

promethius wrote: »

that's debatable since unlike say ball sports, there's a lot less skill invovled (fair enough the swim requires some finesse).

a footballer with a bad first touch, poor tackling etc aint gonna change that with any ammount of doping. fair enough his fitness can improve but that's only one element of the overall sport, unlike triathlon where it's most of it.

but the thing that bugs me lately is looking around and wondering what's real and what's something else altogether.

I heard an interesting interview with some county board members that said their selection criteria for inter county footballers was usually: 1st fitness, 2nd physique and 3rd skill.

It definitely puts it into perspective.

bryangiggsy

d4r3n wrote: »

I heard an interesting interview with some county board members that said their selection criteria for inter county footballers was usually: 1st fitness, 2nd physique and 3rd skill.

It definitely puts it into perspective.

Seriously!!! (they must have been talking about triathlon)

Dare u to put that up on the GAA board.

Back to OP I honestly dont think ped's is an issue in tri in Ireland.

The cocks with big egos (prime candidates) are limited to a few on the circuit.

RacoonQueen

promethius wrote: »

that's debatable since unlike say ball sports, there's a lot less skill invovled (fair enough the swim requires some finesse).

a footballer with a bad first touch, poor tackling etc aint gonna change that with any ammount of doping. fair enough his fitness can improve but that's only one element of the overall sport, unlike triathlon where it's most of it.

but the thing that bugs me lately is looking around and wondering what's real and what's something else altogether.

Dunno, there's a lot to be said for a player with pace or the strength to hold players off. I woudln't be surprised if football was over run with it.

interested

somewhat related

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/datablog/2012/jul/04/olympics-2012-athletics?fb=native

peter kern

While i think drafting is by far the biggest problem tri has their issues as in any sport (or buisness sector where some companies like google , facebook apple, samsung push the legal boundaries often over the limit and then get fined or called back )

With Itu anti doping programm nowadays ( cant remember the year but around 2005 Itu got their act togheter after a oly champ silver medal winner and world champs failed tests ) and is much better administrated than long distance.

In Ireland if you are likely to win podiums at nat champs you know chances are extremly high you get tested. Pb3 athletes have been tested more than 20 times in last 4 years.

But with all the snake oil being sold I would not be suprised that if you would test whole race you would find quite a few irregularities with contamineated vitamines stuff of 'super' foods , and most people would not even be aware of their violation.

MrCreosote

Here's a good point of view from a race director:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/Opinion_Age_Group_Doping_Control_3187.html

nerraw1111

Football is supposed to be rife with it. It's nothing to do with skill, rather the ability to recover quickly. If you can stay fit through a season, that's a huge advantage.

Fuentes was involved with La Liga players in Spain. He was actually annoyed that the only clients of his named were cyclists.

There's an article published today discussing Fuentes and soccer.

http://eircomsports.eircom.net/News/doping-football.aspx

Same with tennis.

onimpulse

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Football is supposed to be rife with it. It's nothing to do with skill, rather the ability to recover quickly. If you can stay fit through a season, that's a huge advantage.

Fuentes was involved with La Liga players in Spain. He was actually annoyed that the only clients of his named were cyclists.

There's an article published today discussing Fuentes and soccer.

http://eircomsports.eircom.net/News/doping-football.aspx

Same with tennis.

You just beat me to it on this. I remember reading somewhere that less than 40% of Fuentes clients were cyclists. The bulk of the remainder were Footballers & Tenis players. Only the cyclists were ever named though. The UCI is taking a lot of heat at the moment but I wonder what this says about the governing bodies of other sports? Just because there is no scandal doesnt mean they're clean.

BTH

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Football is supposed to be rife with it. It's nothing to do with skill, rather than the ability to recover quickly. If you can stay fit through a season, that's a huge advantage.

Fuentes was involved with La Liga players in Spain. He was actually annoyed that only clients of his named were cyclists.

There's article published today discussing Fuentes and soccer.

Same with tennis.

All you have to do is look at the Operation Puerto page on Wikipedia (the holy gospel of these things). Paragraph after paragraph on cyclists, then a one liner about two mediocre (:rolleyes:) football clubs in Spain. A number of cyclists received bans. Anyone hear about any of the Real or Barca players getting banned?

Then theres the growth hormones given to Messi so he wouldn't end up a dwarf and far too small to make it as a pro footballer. He would have been JB size otherwise!!

Comparing the amount of money floating round in cycling circles, and football circles, anyone who believes that these, and more advanced forms of cheating (for want of a better word) to aid recovery, build muscle and expedite injury recovery are nothing going on in the higher levels of football really need to climb out from under their rock.

BTH

In addition to the Eircom sports article above, I'll add this

http://www.irishpeloton.com/2012/02/drugs-in-football-pull-the-other-one/

And this view from inside football

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/the-drugs-do-work-and-thats-why-players-cant-say-no-2577489.html

While cycling is far from a shinin example of how to run a sport, and I've no doubt triathlon could up it's game too, at least there are those vocal enough in the sport that it seems something is being done to improve things, rather the head in the sand stuff which seems to be going on with more lucrative sports.

RayCun

interested wrote: »

somewhat related

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/datablog/2012/jul/04/olympics-2012-athletics?fb=native

According to this, there were over 30,000 samples taken in football from 2008-2010, and fewer than 2% positive findings.

In the Irish Peloton article linked above, the claim is made that Xavi is on growth hormone and the doctor giving it is the same as Eufemiano Fuentes... but the claim is walked back in the comments.

You get the same arguments on Athletics/Running, "I bet football is just as dirty too, why are we picked on!?", but the fact is cycling had/has a massive problem with doping, which was found, evidence published, completely undeniable, athletics is just the same, the failed tests at the highest level are there to be seen, but there is no smoking gun in football. Just people saying "oh, they must be..."

peter kern

the more money their is in the game the more cheating ( legaly and illegaly goes on )

the thing is the dream of getting advantages is with us all and specially with triathletes who buy all the gels, compresion etc stuff.


and since somebody send me an email that competiton testing is useless and that we both know doping happens in ireland.
I cant disagree with that and i might well be to naive, but at the same time i just have a hard time that anybody in their right frame of mind would take drugs at this level an the good guys dont really overperform in a way that would get me suspicous enough.

on the other hand from being a really persistent drafter to take drugs is not that far a step.


Persoanlly iam 99,9999999999999999999 % sure i never coached an athlete that cheated with drugs.

at the same time looking at the whole tri world human beings make errors......
and triathletes look for the easy way thats why they are a gadget sellers paradise.

BTH wrote: »

All you have to do is look at the Operation Puerto page on Wikipedia (the holy gospel of these things). Paragraph after paragraph on cyclists, then a one liner about two mediocre (:rolleyes:) football clubs in Spain. A number of cyclists received bans. Anyone hear about any of the Real or Barca players getting banned?

Then theres the growth hormones given to Messi so he wouldn't end up a dwarf and far too small to make it as a pro footballer. He would have been JB size otherwise!!

Comparing the amount of money floating round in cycling circles, and football circles, anyone who believes that these, and more advanced forms of cheating (for want of a better word) to aid recovery, build muscle and expedite injury recovery are nothing going on in the higher levels of football really need to climb out from under their rock.