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New traffic regulations affecting cyclists

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    #122
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,055 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Seweryn wrote: »
    That is very helpful, thank you.

    Yeah, I was challenged by an unmarked Garda officer (in his private car). I gently ignored his order, but I had a slight doubt afterwards :o.

    I was challenged by a Garda in a Garda car on it, was bloody ridiculous. It seems there's an ingrained view among some that cyclists don't belong on the road, especially when you can be mixing it up with the pedestrians and an unmaintained white line on the footpath..


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    #123
    Pigeon Reaper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Pigeon Reaper


    Had one genius shouting at me today to use the cycle lane. I was in a shared bus/cycle lane and he was in a car trying to undertake traffic in the 24 hour bus/cycle lane. I always find the most vocal ones are the people who are running late and decide that normal traffic rules don't apply to them.


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    #124
    witty username
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭witty username


    I was stopped by a traffic cop last week heading up the hill from Drumcondra to Whitehall around 6:10pm. Stepped out, blocked the road and told me to get in the cycle lane as it was mandatory. I kept telling him its not anymore and he lost the plot and started shouting that it is and that I should "have some respect for road users"...

    I had unclipped and moved to the side to argue with him so in the end I rode 20m in the cycle lane and then hopped back into the bus lane and left him there. I printed the relevant legislation out and have it laminated in the bag so I can break it out next time I encounter a numpty of his calibre. In retrospect I regret not getting his number and going a little further with it.


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    #125
    nomdeboardie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie


    witty username wrote: »
    ... I printed the relevant legislation out and have it laminated in the bag so I can break it out next time ...
    Kewel :)

    (+ Anyone who fancies quick access to a summary of the legislation for printing might like to view the attachments I linked on post 119)

    It almost makes the 'mandatory use' years worth something, as the repeal has now given us a legal statement that use is not mandatory :p


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    #126
    Seweryn
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Seweryn


    witty username wrote: »
    I kept telling him its not anymore and he lost the plot and started shouting that it is and that I should "have some respect for road users"...
    :eek:

    That is blaaoody shocking, especially when it comes from a Garda traffic representative :rolleyes:.


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    #127
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,055 ✭✭✭buffalo


    witty username wrote: »
    I was stopped by a traffic cop last week heading up the hill from Drumcondra to Whitehall around 6:10pm. Stepped out, blocked the road and told me to get in the cycle lane as it was mandatory. I kept telling him its not anymore and he lost the plot and started shouting that it is and that I should "have some respect for road users"...

    I had unclipped and moved to the side to argue with him so in the end I rode 20m in the cycle lane and then hopped back into the bus lane and left him there. I printed the relevant legislation out and have it laminated in the bag so I can break it out next time I encounter a numpty of his calibre. In retrospect I regret not getting his number and going a little further with it.

    ha! That's pretty much where I had my own encounter. Wonder if it was the same Garda... :P


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    #128
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    witty username wrote: »
    I was stopped by a traffic cop last week heading up the hill from Drumcondra to Whitehall around 6:10pm. Stepped out, blocked the road
    How wide was he and how narrow was the road that you couldn't go around him?


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    #129
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,522 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    kenmc wrote: »
    How wide was he and how narrow was the road that you couldn't go around him?
    I'm pretty sure that if instructed to stop by a Guard I would do so and then argue my point rather than doing a runner and risking more serious sanction.


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    #130
    nomdeboardie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie


    kenmc wrote: »
    How wide was he and how narrow was the road that you couldn't go around him?
    According to the great Flann O'Brien:
    Three fifties of fosterlings could engage with handball against the wideness of his backside, which was wide enough to halt the march of warriors through a mountain pass.


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    #131
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,015 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    From what I recall it is an offence to disobey the instructions of a Garda, even if that Garda is a complete moron.


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    #132
    rp
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭rp


    Lumen wrote: »
    From what I recall it is an offence to disobey the instructions of a Garda, even if that Garda is a complete moron.
    Even if the guard instructs you break the law?


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    #133
    enas
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭enas


    rp wrote: »
    Even if the guard instructs you break the law?

    Probably so. I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that. Of course, you don't have to obey the guard, you're still free to disobey, it's just that you're committing an offence while doing so.


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    #134
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,254 ✭✭✭markpb


    enas wrote: »
    Probably so. I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that. Of course, you don't have to obey the guard, you're still free to disobey, it's just that you're committing an offence while doing so.

    It is illegal to ignore the lawful instruction of a garda. If he tells you to cycle on the footpath, that would be unlawful and he is not allowed to tell you to do it. On the other hand, if he told you to cycle on a cycle lane instead of the road (where the cycle lane is legal but not mandatory), it would be unlawful for you to ignore them.
    kenmc wrote: »
    How wide was he and how narrow was the road that you couldn't go around him?

    I presume it was around here.


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    #135
    nomdeboardie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie


    markpb wrote: »
    It is illegal to ignore the lawful instruction of a garda. If he tells you to cycle on the footpath, that would be unlawful and he is not allowed to tell you to do it. On the other hand, if he told you to cycle on a cycle lane instead of the road (where the cycle lane is legal but not mandatory), it would be unlawful for you to ignore them. ...
    I can certainly see that it might be necessary for a Garda to override the right of a cyclist, or a car-driver, to use the road in exceptional circumstances, but where does the Garda's (probeably misinformed) opinions on a situation start and legal entitlements end...?


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    #136
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,254 ✭✭✭markpb


    nomdeboardie wrote: »
    where does the Garda's (probeably misinformed) opinions on a situation start and legal entitlements end...?

    If a guarda is not aware of changes in legislation (which isn't surprising given the breath of legislation they have to be aware of) and instructs you to lawfully use a cycle lane, I don't see that you have any right to ignore them. You could certainly politely make your case and hope they're in a good mood* but there are no certainties. I guess the best bet would be to go through the yes sir, no sir act and later write a letter to the Super in the local station asking him to remind Gardai about the relevant changes in legislation.

    * I was stopped in 2010 and given out to by a Guarda one morning at Whitehall church for cycling down the N1 (here) which he claimed was a motorway (it was, prior to the start of the DPT construction in 2006). I argued (politely) and then he tried to claim I had no lights (it was 9am in the summer so they were in my bag) and finally that I had no helmet. After convincing him that none of these things were against the law, I went on my merry way.


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    #137
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    markpb wrote: »
    It is illegal to ignore the lawful instruction of a garda. If he tells you to cycle on the footpath, that would be unlawful and he is not allowed to tell you to do it. On the other hand, if he told you to cycle on a cycle lane instead of the road (where the cycle lane is legal but not mandatory), it would be unlawful for you to ignore them.



    I presume it was around here.

    Sure but to throw an interesting question into the mix. The 1993 Roads Act contains a duty to avoid both injury and damage to property - including personal property.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1993/en/act/pub/0014/sec0067.html#sec67
    67.—(1) It shall be the duty of a person using a public road to take reasonable care for his own safety and for that of any other person using the public road.

    (2) It shall be the duty of a person using a public road to take all reasonable measures to avoid—

    (a) injury to himself or to any other person using the public road,

    (b) damage to property owned or used by him or by any other person using the public road.

    So if an officer of the law is telling you to use a glass strewn cycle path where does the law come down? Bearing in mind that getting a flat tyre on your way into a roundabout could lead to an interesting traffic interaction?

    Either way something else to print off and bring with you. :D


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    #138
    enas
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭enas


    markpb wrote: »
    It is illegal to ignore the lawful instruction of a garda. If he tells you to cycle on the footpath, that would be unlawful and he is not allowed to tell you to do it. On the other hand, if he told you to cycle on a cycle lane instead of the road (where the cycle lane is legal but not mandatory), it would be unlawful for you to ignore them.

    Are you sure? What about if a guard advises you (in a car or on a bicycle, for that matter) to pass at a red light (many good reasons for this to happen). Should you plainly refuse because he's asking you to do something illegal?

    Being morally correct and not committing an offence are not always the same. This might sound like a general "philosophical" question, but it actually has very concrete implications. Most of the times, the thing to do is what feels right.


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    #139
    nomdeboardie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie


    markpb wrote: »
    ... I guess the best bet would be to go through the yes sir, no sir act and later write a letter to the Super in the local station asking him to remind Gardai about the relevant changes in legislation.

    ... I argued (politely) ...
    OK, I agree that I would have little option but to do the polite arguing followed by central communication thing


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    #140
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    markpb wrote: »
    It is illegal to ignore the lawful instruction of a garda.

    An instruction based on non-existent law can be safely ignored imho.


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    #141
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,522 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Call his(her) bluff. Make sure (s)he arrests you, then sue him(her) for wrongful arrest - please let us know how you get on:)


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    #142
    witty username
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭witty username


    As per the streetview link someone posted, it was almost exactly there, just up a bit where the entrance to the college is. And, no, you can't roll on past a neon-clad garda standing in the middle of the road with his hand in the air telling you to stop. Once you have stopped and found out why he has stopped you, you can argue your point with the big thick plank and then move on with your life.


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    #143
    Darkglasses
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    witty username wrote: »
    As per the streetview link someone posted, it was almost exactly there, just up a bit where the entrance to the college is. And, no, you can't roll on past a neon-clad garda standing in the middle of the road with his hand in the air telling you to stop. Once you have stopped and found out why he has stopped you, you can argue your point with the big thick plank and then move on with your life.

    Ní thuigim, níl agam ach beagáinín Béarla...


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    #144
    Seaswimmer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭Seaswimmer


    witty username wrote: »
    As per the streetview link someone posted, it was almost exactly there, just up a bit where the entrance to the college is. And, no, you can't roll on past a neon-clad garda standing in the middle of the road with his hand in the air telling you to stop. Once you have stopped and found out why he has stopped you, you can argue your point with the big thick plank and then move on with your life.

    My uncle (a retired chief superintendent) makes a point of never stopping unless the Guard displays the correct signal.
    Right hand bent at the elbow and and hand pointing upwards. Most guards at check points put their hand lazily out at the last minute so you are never sure whether to stop or not. He drives through slowly past the guard if he dosent see the correct hand signal and then stops and explains when challenged that he was not sure if the guard wanted him to stop or not..


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    #145
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Seaswimmer wrote: »
    My uncle (a retired chief superintendent) makes a point of never stopping unless the Guard displays the correct signal.
    Right hand bent at the elbow and and hand pointing upwards. Most guards at check points put their hand lazily out at the last minute so you are never sure whether to stop or not. He drives through slowly past the guard if he dosent see the correct hand signal and then stops and explains when challenged that he was not sure if the guard wanted him to stop or not..

    I'll bet, he was very popular, when he was in the job.:rolleyes:


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