Alex Ferguson on Ferdinand and Roberts

mitosis

IvySlayer wrote: »

What do people think of the new black player association that's supposedly being created? Well done lads, fight racism by segregating people.

I'm looking forward to the Black Premier League.

Ashbourne hoop

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Also if people make false allegation about racism that also needs to be addressed.

Lee Croft case is perfect example. Just cause a White player/person confronts a Black player/person(ballboy in this case) does not make it racism all the time.

That kid looked very upset about something though.

Ashbourne hoop

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

TBF its hard to go against what you say when you put it like that.

In saying that 2 of those turned out to be untrue.

But your right Rio is not exactly a saint.

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

The_Kew_Tour

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

That kid looked very upset about something though.

He was, but that does not mean he made racist remakr to the kid. It was Sheffield United who were quick to come out and say it was not racist incident.

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

it would have everything to do with somebody if they were wrongly accused of racism

Pro. F

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Management and coaching is a choice and requires qualifications, I wonder what the % of qualified black coaches & managers who are out of work is.

I remember the last time this proposed rule was discussed on the SF, it was found that very few black coaches had done the UEFA A licence, which is required to manage in the PL. I can't remember exactly but I think Ince was the only participant out of the last few classes that numbers were available for. Chris Houghton has the A Licence too, I wouldn't have a clue beyond them though.

But that's for top tier management, so if black coaches aren't being hired at the lower tiers, where managers usually start out, then they aren't going to be doing coaching courses for the highest tier.

Iirc we couldn't find numbers for the entry level management courses. But tbh I wouldn't be surprised if there is a disproportionately lower number of black ex-professionals doing the basic coaching badges. There is clearly a perception that black coaches don't get the opportunities and there are precious few role models to show them any different.

Something like the Rooney rule would address the balance by fighting both possible ends of the problem. It would ensure that all football clubs do give opportunities for prospective black coaches to be interviewed and it would defeat the perception amongst prospective black coaches that there aren't a fair number of opportunities to get an interview.

Iang87

so segregating because of colour is no longer racist then

Pro. F

Iang87 wrote: »

so segregating because of colour is no longer racist then

It's not segregation it is discrimination. And no it is not racist.

Iang87

ok i'll see if i can see your logic.

A - White, 50 years old, 10 years experience, qualification ABC
B - Black, 50 years old, 10 years experience, qualification ABC

A gets selected because and only because he is white. Racist
B gets selected because and only because he is black. Not racist

That to me is ridiculous logic


There is a hidden option though. The guy who is fully qualified and is the best candidate through the selection process regardless of colour.

Oh theres a non racist option

Pro. F

Iang87 wrote: »

ok i'll see if i can see your logic.

A - White, 50 years old, 10 years experience, qualification ABC
B - Black, 50 years old, 10 years experience, qualification ABC

A gets selected because and only because he is white. Racist
B gets selected because and only because he is black. Not racist

That to me is ridiculous logic


There is a hidden option though. The guy who is fully qualified and is the best candidate through the selection process regardless of colour.

Oh theres a non racist option

That is not an accurate description of the proposed rule nor the observations of the current problem as described by people proposing the rule. You are also still not understanding what the term 'racism' actually means.

If you make all those false claims and faulty assumptions then you aren't going to see sound logic behind it all.

Iang87

ok what is racism?

I have always though it was treating someone differently based on colour or ethnicity


Also is the example I gave not an example of this rule you were speaking about

Pro. F

Iang87 wrote: »

ok what is racism?

I have always though it was treating someone differently based on colour or ethnicity

Also is the example I gave not an example of this rule you were speaking about

I have already given my answer to the first question and more in post 204 (which you quoted previously). Or you could try having a look at google.

For my answer to the second question see post 250.

Iang87

I just think its a very dangerous rule to enforce.
Using your US example can you imagine in the NBA if teams were forced to draft 80% white players. What do you think would be said?

Tchaikovsky

John Barnes said that one of the main reasons why he didn't get a managerial job 8 years after being sacked by Celtic was that he was black. When in actual fact, it was because he's a **** manager

killwill

Iang87 wrote: »

I just think its a very dangerous rule to enforce.
Using your US example can you imagine in the NBA if teams were forced to draft 80% white players. What do you think would be said?

Why 80% in your example?

Iang87

just cos the percentage of non white players in the NBA was something like 80 or 85% last I heard

Prick!

Maybe there aren't many black managers because

1. The majority of people in England are white.
2. Most managers aren't young, so the black players going into coaching might take a while to filter through
3. They're not good enough.

The_Kew_Tour

Prick! wrote: »

Maybe there aren't many black managers because

1. The majority of people in England are white.
2. Most managers aren't young, so the black players going into coaching might take a while to filter through
3. They're not good enough.

Britain's population is made up of 5% Black People. You would swear it was 50% from Sky they way they bring up this lack of Black Mangers in Football.

Pro. F

Iang87 wrote: »

I just think its a very dangerous rule to enforce.

I think it's strange that in spite of not knowing the details of the proposed rule, nor the issues the rule is aimed at fixing as described by the people proposing it, nor even the full meaning of the term 'racism' that you are still happy to form an opinion on the subject.

Iang87 wrote: »

Using your US example can you imagine in the NBA if teams were forced to draft 80% white players. What do you think would be said?

People would say that that is a silly rule. Since white people have always had a huge majority and have been the ones wielding the racist exclusion in sport rather than the ones subjected to it then there would be no need for your rule.