Ash Dieback Disease (Chalara fraxinea) in Ireland

Oldtree

wayoutwest wrote: »

According to Wiki, the Emerald Ash Borer is munching towards us at a rate of 40 K per year........at that rate, we've got about 70 years before it gets here and destroys what remains of our Ash trees.
Surely the only way to go is to be planting ultra diverse stands of forest so ANY threat results in small loss, rather than a disaster. The species that seems to be 'getting it' simply becomes the firewood of the day and the money saved by NOT drenching with chemicals (that will probably kill the woodpeckers and end up producing a mutant resistant borer that likes eating EVERYTHING) could pay for re-planting with a species that doesn't seem to on the way out.

Came across the below article yesterday where the US are releasing 4 species of parasitic wasps to fight the emerald ash borer.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36382647

Buy worryingly:

The wasp program is not likely to save any current trees, but is aimed at preventing the ash borer from decimating future tree populations, according to entomologist Ben Slager.

Interesting cost assessment quote there too

The treatment and removal of the affected trees costs up to $25bn

timfromtang

taxusbaccata wrote: »

What will have to happen as always does it that a huge proportion of the organism (ash trees) will die up to ~95%. The remaining ~5% will be genetically immune and if allowed to will produce offspring that will be immune to dieback.

Human interventions are generally useless. Indeed it is usually human intervention that facilitates disease process - monoculture and transport.

A multiculture of native trees is the way to go in my opinion - as nature intended. Oldtree you are years ahead.

This paper would seem to agree with the approach you propose, I hope its attached
tim

Oldtree

I thought a very interesting suggestion in that paper was:

Summary of proposed measures to reduce the threat posed by common ash dieback

Inoculum reduction around ancient ash trees - Removing ash leaves in autumn around solitary ancient ash trees may help reduce inoculum and thus preserve this important heritage

although I had to google inoculum to be sure - "a substance used for inoculation".

timfromtang

Oldtree wrote: »

I thought a very interesting suggestion in that paper was:



although I had to google inoculum to be sure - "a substance used for inoculation".

I recall reading also that individual trees that lose their leaves late in the season are more likely to be resistant to the disease. It would make sense were the infection pathway linked to leaf fall, the abscission layer perhaps. In which case i'd suggest that careful and prompt removal and hot composting of fallen ash leaves might be a worthwhile intervention to attempt to protect an individual or small group of ash trees.
tim

EDIT: The PDF linked to above suggests the opposite.... early leaf senescence being associated with less susceptibility.

Greysides.

timfromtang

Incidentally does anyone know of anyone who is actively researching the biology of this organism, or indeed has anyone got papers they may share concerning the biology and life cycle of this fungus?
tim

tabby aspreme

timfromtang wrote: »

I recall reading also that individual trees that lose their leaves late in the season are more likely to be resistant to the disease. It would make sense were the infection pathway linked to leaf fall, the abscission layer perhaps. In which case i'd suggest that careful and prompt removal and hot composting of fallen ash leaves might be a worthwhile intervention to attempt to protect an individual or small group of ash trees.
tim

Where leaf collection is not possible
I think that it would be best to allow grass to grow as tall as possible around ash trees to smother the fallen leaves and reduce the chance of spore dispersal

Oldtree

timfromtang wrote: »

Incidentally does anyone know of anyone who is actively researching the biology of this organism, or indeed has anyone got papers they may share concerning the biology and life cycle of this fungus?
tim

some ongoing analysis info here:

http://oadb.tsl.ac.uk/

timfromtang

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-92PJKX

timfromtang

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/RevassesHymenoscyphusfraxineus290116.pdf

tim

Oldtree

Just came across this:

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2016-05-18a.521

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)

195. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to review the situation that the Irish Farmers Association Irish Hardy Nurserystock Association was not eligible to apply for grants awarded to forestry and hedgerow associations funded by his Department for associations which grow ash trees; to review this policy; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10732/16]

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)

Over the last number of years the Department has operated a Reconstitution Scheme to restore forests established under its afforestation schemes back to their original form following significant damage by natural causes. The Scheme has been used to assist forestry owners who have been affected by Ash dieback disease. The objective of the Scheme is to eradicate/contain ash dieback in forests by supporting the removal and destruction of trees and leaf litter and to reconstitute the forest by replanting with alternative species. The Scheme provides funding in respect of costs necessarily incurred in clearing the site and reconstituting the forest, subject to the maximum limits laid down.

Due to financial pressures and Departmental budgetary constraints, grant aid was confined to individual forestry owners. Accordingly forestry or hedgerow associations have not been funded.

The Scheme is therefore targeted at the forestry sector and there are currently no plans to either broaden the scope of the Scheme or to introduce any other Scheme for individuals or nurseries that have been affected by outbreaks of plant diseases including ash dieback.

My Department continues to provide funding for the development of the horticultural industry including commercial nurseries through the Horticultural Grant s

http://irishtractor.ie/a-voice-for-the-hardy-nursery-stock-producers/

The Association, which has over 60 members, is chaired by Val Farrell of B&V Nurseries Ltd in Skerries, Co. Dublin. Val, who is in his third year in the voluntary role
“On top of that, we have had to cope with the threat on new diseases such as Ash Dieback (Chalara fraxinea) and Sudden Oak Death (Phytophthora ramorum). Sudden Oak Death is very prevalent in southern England and has spread to some Irish forests. If our plants are affected, they have to be quarantined. We have to comply with the Department’s regulations and we don’t get compensated for that either.

I would have thought that every effort through every avenue should be made to seek out and remove and destroy infected trees, and to encourage those with infected trees to come forward. This hardly does that imo

Dozer1

Just got a notification that the ash in my plantation has this disease, a bags as I was thinking of selling it.
its only a few acres, how long does it take to get through all the paper work etc.

its planted since 2002
will i be allowed plant conifers instead or what do they specify

timfromtang

Must be a run on notifications, 16.85 Ha in our case, got the letter today,,,,, "We regret to inform you..............." sigh, on reading the "sanitation action plan" it looks a total loss some planted 1996, more 2001, 2003, 2012. (guess where the infection started anyone??) :-( Apparently we are not even allowed to sell the timber for firewood nor share it with relatives who live further than 3km from home. Forester coming on monday. Will post here on the actions taken by the various parties.


tis 41% of our forest,
stuff of nightmares,
been watching those ladies reaching for the skies for 20 years. I met my wife in the bottoms field, planting alongside me and my father in 1996 (she working for the forestry company and my dad and i helping out with the planting).

tim

tabby aspreme

Sorry to hear that news lads , had ye concerns yourselves about the tree's growth and request an inspection, or did the letter arrive without any prior knowledge of the problem.

timfromtang

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Sorry to hear that news lads , had ye concerns yourselves about the tree's growth and request an inspection, or did the letter arrive without any prior knowledge of the problem.

Well, in our case, I noticed some sick trees whilst grass clearing in our 2012 parcel of ash and beech this summer about the 8th of June. I researched all I could on the possible causes, and informed our forester who came and had a look, then we informed the forest service. I heard nothing from them, even phoned a couple of times leaving a message with our contract number and asking when they were coming to sample, and then Yesterday the letter........

tim

TheBody

Ah lads that's terrible news. Very sorry to hear that.

I have about 4 acres of ash and I'm bricking it in case it happens to me.

timfromtang

Dozer1 wrote: »

Just got a notification that the ash in my plantation has this disease, a bags as I was thinking of selling it.
its only a few acres, how long does it take to get through all the paper work etc.

its planted since 2002
will i be allowed plant conifers instead or what do they specify

HI Dozer,
Having read the documentation that comes with the letter it would appear that you can replant with what you like that will be approved by forester and forest service, and if there are premium implications (less or more per hectare) then your premium payments will be adjusted from 2017 onwards.

tim

blue5000

Sorry to hear this Tim, 41% is a big loss. Any ideas yet what to re-plant with?

Dozer1

Sorry to hear that Tim thats a serious loss to take compared to my few acres I hope things turn out for the best
I rang my forester and his concern is the grant is only able to cover the cost of young plantations anything over 10 years will cost way more than the 1500 per ha to get cleared. I've hen harrier to play with aswell and the letter states work to be done in 8 weeks.

Terrible to see them destroyed but its outside the door so we'll keep the chin up and plough on.

timfromtang

Dozer1 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that Tim thats a serious loss to take compared to my few acres I hope things turn out for the best
I rang my forester and his concern is the grant is only able to cover the cost of young plantations anything over 10 years will cost way more than the 1500 per ha to get cleared. I've hen harrier to play with aswell and the letter states work to be done in 8 weeks.

Terrible to see them destroyed but its outside the door so we'll keep the chin up and plough on.

Aye as my neighbour says you gotta roll with the punches.

I am concerned by what your forester said about the costs, much of ours is older than 10 years. Did he/she give any reasons for the increased costs with older stands?

tim

timfromtang

blue5000 wrote: »

Sorry to hear this Tim, 41% is a big loss. Any ideas yet what to re-plant with?

That is going to be a challenge I'd say, what to replant with??

Initiall I thought this,,,, see below
a couple of posts down you will see my new thinking after discussion and thought.

simpler in the Younger stands i suppose (less lost time to try and make up for). A native mix will cover most of the ecosystem functions of Ash, many species which rely on Ash have secondary hosts, however i believe that there are some small number of species who depend on Ash exclusively.

Likely a diverse mix containing mostly native broadleaves, with some scots pine, and walnut, cherry etc for a larger proportion of high value stems at harvest (cherry if carefully managed could go a long way in making up the shortfall caused by the lost time as it grows quickly and is highly valuable in quality sawlogs).

Given my experience with this disease thus far, and the threat of sudden oak and larch death on the horizon too (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytophthora_ramorum)

well

It would appear that planting nice easy to manage single species blocks is out of the question...........

so

Mimicking the kinds of species distributions found in "natural" forests will likely I'd suggest make for a more resilient forest
This however will of course be much more difficult to manage, but since we are a small farm forest of only 100 acres such more intensive micro management should be within our capabilities, and may indeed offer additional outputs that more "monocultural" approaches cannot deliver, fruits and nuts in the understorey and shrub layer for example' and indeed a much more attractive amenity value.

Thus far in my thinking (early days yet) I can think of no way to recover the loss of 20 years of growth in the older stands. So it is likely here that we will focus on diversity and resilience also, but these are lower quality soils (we planted the worst bits of land on the farm first naturally). Hence i will not be able to include some of the more high value species and will likely plant a native mix.

I am very open to opinions and options on what to replant with and why?
Since the land must be left unplanted for 12 months post clearance we will have some time to think about it.

tim

blue5000

What's your soil type and rough annual rainfall, also how old are you? Must be fairly good land if you are considering walnut.

timfromtang

blue5000 wrote: »

What's your soil type and rough annual rainfall, also how old are you? Must be fairly good land if you are considering walnut.

some of it is good land, the youngest stands are on the best soils, brown earths (fields were used for hay and silage, and beet and barley in the past)

there is a small area of bottom land a gley soil of some sort, and the rest is a wetter brown earth. Located in the midlands close to the eastern edge of lough ree.

As for my age I am 50, but the children are coming on and have an interest, so hopefully there will be continuity of management for the next generation too.

as for rainfall not as wet as Sligo, but much wetter than Dublin

tim

Oldtree

That is awful news all round.

timfromtang

Having thought this through a bit more (maybe not enough yet)

The options for planting are becoming limited by increasing disease pressure.

ergo... resilience and diversity would seem to be desirable characteristics.

So it is likely i will replant using native species and provenances only and plant a native woodland mixture.
Oak would be the natural choice for the main component of the mix (thanks Noel) with the usual suspects in the understorey, at the edges, and wherever they can get a roothold. The usual suspects being in this case, those species that would usually be found in a "natural" oak woodland here in the midlands

tim

wayoutwest

Hi Tim - really sorry to hear about your loss. Wishing you the best of luck with re-planting.
P.S - could the diseased wood be turned into charcoal, using a large mobile retort, positioned so any movement of timber is kept to a minimum?

greysides

Disappointing news Tim.

timfromtang

wayoutwest wrote: »

Hi Tim - really sorry to hear about your loss. Wishing you the best of luck with re-planting.
P.S - could the diseased wood be turned into charcoal, using a large mobile retort, positioned so any movement of timber is kept to a minimum?

Howdy,
thanks for that I was also considering charcoal, it would be likely that we could persuade the forest inspector to accept that wood that has been converted to charcoal is sanitised and could be sold. However the volumes involved will be large and I would have concerns about handling storage and sale of the charcoal.
Any suggestions for markets for charcoal would be most welcome.
there will be upwards of 600 cubic metres of raw material that could be processed in this way.
tim

fergus1001

timfromtang wrote:

I am concerned by what your forester said about the costs, much of ours is older than 10 years. Did he/she give any reasons for the increased costs with older stands?

There is a grant there to cover the reconstitution of your forest, I actually remember planting and spraying your 2012 parcel of ash !

wayoutwest

Hi Tim
I read somwhere that you can get 1 tonne of charcoal out of 7 tonne of timber, so your 600 tonne would make about 80 tonne, or 8000 kilo or 1600 5 kilo bags. Are these realistic figures?.Does Ash make good charcoal?. Would the timber require some level off seasoning before it goes in the retort?

Oldtree

Charcoal is a great idea, maby Tescos or some other outlet would be interested in such a locally produced product.

Do you have to come up with your own Sanitation Action Plan or is an outline provided by the dept, or is it as you mentioned a persuasion of the inspector? Up to now the methods seems to have been "uprooting and deep burial"

(9) The removal and destruction of trees and leaf litter affected by Chalara fraxinea must be completed in compliance with the Sanitation Action Plan approved by the Department and within the period specified in the approval.

Sanitation Action Plan shall mean a document specifying the sanitation procedures which are being put in place to eradicate Chalara fraxinea at a forest property.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/ashdiebackchalara/ReconstitutionofWoodlandsChalarafraxineaSchemeMarch2013210313.pdf

(4) A person shall not land wood of genus Fraxinus L. into the State originating in countries where Chalara fraxinea is known to occur unless the wood—

(d) if sawn, with or without residual bark attached, has undergone kiln drying to below 20 % moisture content, expressed as a percentage of dry matter, achieved through an appropriate time and temperature schedule. There shall be evidence thereof by a mark ‘Kiln-dried’ or ‘KD’ or another internationally recognised mark, put on the wood or on any wrapping in accordance with current usage.

Could this be used in some way to allow you to produce charcoal, moisture content less than 20% and its color marking it as better than KD?

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/legislation/statutoryinstruments2012/SI4312012.pdf

Would it be worth finding out what entails a "larger diameter ash log"? Anything without staining could be processed off site and used as firewood.

Movement of larger diameter ash logs from infected areas is considered to be much lower risk so long as certain phytosanitary measures are properly implemented. These include ensuring the larger diameter logs being moved have no evident signs of the disease, e.g. lesions or staining, and that all leaves and foliage (whether living or dead) are completely removed on site before transportation.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/ashdiebackchalara/