Formula 1 2012: Round 16 - Korean Grand Prix

Jordan 199

EnterNow wrote: »

Schumacher aside, its hard to disagree with that. They've made virtually no progress in three seasons, & now have Sauber & Force India breathing down their necks too.

I can see Lewis getting frustrated at yet more time wasted, & maybe moving to RB if Vettel ever moves to Ferrari

True enough.

He may have performance related clauses in his contract that if Mercedes can't give him a car that's capable of winning races on a regular basis or whatever, he may be free to leave Mercedes. Who knows though.

_rebelkid

Very interesting point raised by Sky Sports F1's Ted Kravitz. Says that it seems like Hamilton has "checked out" of McLaren. That meaning; he was late to a press conference which they started without him, during the press conference he seemed isolated and sad, whereas Jenson was cracking jokes ( he said the " I guess Sergio wouldn't be late" ).

I think Ted was on the button with this one. It seems that Lewis' signing has been seen as, nearly, an act of betrayal. It looks like he is done with the social side of the team, and the team are done with the social side of him.

Mind you, he and the team are still putting 100% into the race, but it looks like the discord between them may be affecting performance.

I think Lewis moved to Mercedes not out of wanting a challenge, but out of his contract with his management company. Even looking at the way it was reported, everyone was commenting on how Mercedes would make him a "Global Superstar", which if the move was career minded it wouldn't have had any input into his decision.

I do think that Mercedes has grossly under-whelmed since 2010, but that was always going to be the case after the brilliance that was Brawn GP in 2009. The hullabaloo about their DDRS at the start of the year gave some hope, but they didn't move forward in the development race after Rosbergs win. Everyone else, including the likes of HRT and Marussia (yes, I'm including HRT in this one!), have made huge developments forward, but Mercedes hasn't. The car has good fundamental speed, but they haven't tried to maximize it.

Looking to 2013, I think the McLaren knowledge Lewis will bring to Mercedes will be of great benefit, and I wouldn't be surprised if he won maybe Race 2 or 3. Perez will bring much needed tyre saving knowledge to McLaren, and RBR.... well, they're RBR. What do you think?

SnowDrifts

_rebelkid wrote: »

Looking to 2013, I think the McLaren knowledge Lewis will bring to Mercedes will be of great benefit, and I wouldn't be surprised if he won maybe Race 2 or 3.

I completely disagree with this.

Also, there is always the chance that a Brawn miracle may happen and Mercedes might come out with a half decent car in 2013 but it will be nothing to do with Lewis.

_rebelkid

_rebelkid wrote: »

Looking to 2013, I think the McLaren knowledge Lewis will bring to Mercedes will be of great benefit, and I wouldn't be surprised if he won maybe Race 2 or 3.

What knowledge do you think he will bring? He's just a driver, his knowledge of the car is limited.

Perez will bring much needed tyre saving knowledge to McLaren

Again I would say the same. If he has some inherent driving style that is kind on tryes then for sure it's something he can bring. But 'knowledge' about the tyres is all on the engineering side. They have teams of people monitoring temperatures, pressures, g-loads etc and comparing the data to 'ideal' scenario.

When they tell the driver to go easier or harder on the tyres, its because keep the real time data as close as possible to the ideal way of using those tyres. The driver responds to their instructions but he's not the one crunching numbers and monitoring data. So the knowledge he can bring to a new team is nothing revelatory.

Oblomov

The split with his father, the furore with his girl friend all unsettled Lewis. The the new management guys want to make money out of him, that's what theya re in business for. So Lewis.. plays naughty, posts sensitive documents, makes silly comments and genrally pisses off the team.

So, who could he go to? Red Bull, already said no.. Ferrari... with Alonso... big No No ... Norbert Haug has always been a fan of Lewis so.. the most likely. Mercedes but.. next seasons car is already built, so no input necessary.. but will it suit Lewis and will it have the performance.

Mercedes board have opnelyd declared that if success is not achieved and the costa keep rising.... they will just close it down. So, is the Lewis recruitment a sigh of desperation?

Daniel S

Grim. wrote: »

and BMW

Ah leave i' out!

_rebelkid wrote: »

Perez will bring much needed tyre saving knowledge to McLaren, and RBR.... well, they're RBR. What do you think?

I'm pretty sure the engineers know very well how to save tyres, it's just getting a driver with the ability/style to do so. :pac:

Personally I think Seb has the championship won already and I can't imagine Lewis winning a race next year. Mercedes will need more than a few strokes of genius. Too many cooks etc also. They need an Adrian Newey.

smellslikeshoes

I don't think Mercedes are as far away from being a championship winning team as people make out.
They built a quick car this year, for the first 6 or 7 races they absolutely were on the pace, Rosberg got his pole and win in China And Schumacher got his Pole in Monaco. Neither of those were down to a rainy session or anything either, they were quick enough in their own right and there was plenty more occasions of them being on the pace.

If it wasn't for Schumacher's rotten luck during the first half of season I'm 100% sure there would have been a few more podiums and possibly even another win.

The real problem with Mercedes is they just can't seem to develop a car over the course of the season. At the start of the season they were quicker than both Ferrari and Red Bull, and look at the difference in the race yesterday, Schumacher in 13th with only Williams cars and the newcomers behind him.

They really have some great people in the team also, Brawn is probably second only to Newey as the person who you would most like to have in your F1 team. They are also one of the most creative teams, double drs etc. They just need to pinpoint the cause of their slow development problems and if needed throw money at it.

Sorry for bringing this further offtopic, only noticed this was in Korean GP thread after writing it.

Myrddin

_rebelkid wrote: »

but it looks like the discord between them may be affecting performance.

Well a puncture, rear suspension problems, & an exploding gearbox might also affect performance. He's been utterly brilliant this year

StephenHendry

EnterNow wrote: »

When they reviewed all of Grosjeans incidents :eek: Some amount of them when you line them all up beside each other

I saw them, there was even more than I thought, still romain did ok this weekend and had no incidents

Frank Bullitt

EnterNow wrote: »

Well a puncture, rear suspension problems, & an exploding gearbox might also affect performance. He's been utterly brilliant this year

His luck has been out this year quite a bit. I can see him getting some good results next year at Merc but I can't see it being championship winning pace.

frostie500

Yeah Im inclined to agree. I think that I view lewis signing for Merc on a par with Schumi going to Ferrari in 96.

Whatever people think of lewis as a person his speed is still unmatched in F1. I think over one lap he's the fastest and he has been very mature inside the car this year so he could go to Merc and drag them to the front in some races-just as Schumi did in 96.

I think that a 96 Schumi would have been able to win races this year so Lewis could be well placed to pick up some wins and give the team a real lift. There's a lot of paralells between the moves of Michael and Lewis and how they are going to teams that have the potential to be very competitive but have languished in the last few years

sham69

Yeah Im inclined to agree. I think that I view lewis signing for Merc on a par with Schumi going to Ferrari in 96.

Whatever people think of lewis as a person his speed is still unmatched in F1. I think over one lap he's the fastest and he has been very mature inside the car this year so he could go to Merc and drag them to the front in some races-just as Schumi did in 96.

I think that a 96 Schumi would have been able to win races this year so Lewis could be well placed to pick up some wins and give the team a real lift. There's a lot of paralells between the moves of Michael and Lewis and how they are going to teams that have the potential to be very competitive but have languished in the last few years

As much as I hate to agree (as I am not lewis biggest fan), he is the fastest driver out there at the moment over one lap.
I think the schumi 96 comparison is spot on.
I do think though like Michael, he will have to wait a few years, suffer a few near misses before he gets near a title with Mercedes.
I think the move will either make or break him.
There are a lot of good young drivers coming through the ranks these days.
Back in 96 not so many...
Next year will be very interesting.

Myrddin

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I tell you what the worst statistic I heard over the weekend. That Mercedes have had more mechanical failures the HRT this year!

Yep heard that too, shocking stuff.

frostie500

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I tell you what the worst statistic I heard over the weekend. That Mercedes have had more mechanical failures the HRT this year!

I've been impressed by HRT this year. They've steadied their ship and have made clear investments with an eye to improving in the future. Same goes for Marussia and their improvements in pace have made them legitimately a contender with Caterham in terms of out and out pace and they deserve their tenth in the Constructors standings at present. Caterham are looking to make improvements for the future (new factory etc) but it will take time for that to bear fruit

Harcrid