Another USI referendum?

Green Diesel

Comical stuff from all sides. I did find it unusual to be approached by students from Sligo and Galway colleges asking me to vote yes.

mrkiscool2

I actually don't understand how any of ye can honestly defend the actions of your SU Sabats? Like, they made such a massive fcuk up ye should be calling for their heads. Fair enough if you don't agree with the result of the referendum, but this sets an extremely dangerous precedent for any future referendum in the University.

For example, lets say you have one on the SU's stance on abortion. One side wins, but since the SU already fears this will happen, they don't hold an information session and hence the referendum falls. Kind of ridiculous no? If I was a class rep in DCU, I would be calling for the impeachment of each person on elections committee and the SU President.

p1akuw47h5r3it

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

I actually don't understand how any of ye can honestly defend the actions of your SU Sabats? Like, they made such a massive fcuk up ye should be calling for their heads. Fair enough if you don't agree with the result of the referendum, but this sets an extremely dangerous precedent for any future referendum in the University.

For example, lets say you have one on the SU's stance on abortion. One side wins, but since the SU already fears this will happen, they don't hold an information session and hence the referendum falls. Kind of ridiculous no? If I was a class rep in DCU, I would be calling for the impeachment of each person on elections committee and the SU President.

But see thing is most people couldn't give the biggest flying **** about student politics. Call for their heads? I barely have time to sleep! I couldn't care less what DCUSU's stance on abortion is tbh. They're irrelevant. A bit like the USI.

The reason I'm so against affiliation is that it's a HUGE waste of time and a bigger waste of money. I'd rather spend my 5 quid on a pint, or at least give it to the DCUSU so they can put on more events on campus or something. The USI is a farce.

mrkiscool2

DanDan6592 wrote: »

But see thing is most people couldn't give the biggest flying **** about student politics. Call for their heads? I barely have time to sleep! I couldn't care less what DCUSU's stance on abortion is tbh. They're irrelevant. A bit like the USI.

The reason I'm so against affiliation is that it's a HUGE waste of time and a bigger waste of money. I'd rather spend my 5 quid on a pint, or at least give it to the DCUSU so they can put on more events on campus or something. The USI is a farce.

Again, thats what you believe. And to be fair, we boardsies are a cynical bunch at the best of times. But what about all those students who have/will vote in referenda? Do you think its fair for 3 people to decide the stance on every single issue for an entire union? That is just wrong, no matter what way you look at it.

p1akuw47h5r3it

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Again, thats what you believe. And to be fair, we boardsies are a cynical bunch at the best of times. But what about all those students who have/will vote in referenda? Do you think its fair for 3 people to decide the stance on every single issue for an entire union? That is just wrong, no matter what way you look at it.

You say all those as if loads vote though. These things only ever barely reach the quorum. And if you see were the boots are there are always people offering free stuff like lollipops, entry into a night for cheap in order to get people to vote a certain way (this time it was for a yes vote). Hardly democratic itself. And yes two wrongs don't make a right. My point is though that the whole thing is undemocratic and nonsense from the start.

Urizen

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

I actually don't understand how any of ye can honestly defend the actions of your SU Sabats? Like, they made such a massive fcuk up ye should be calling for their heads. Fair enough if you don't agree with the result of the referendum, but this sets an extremely dangerous precedent for any future referendum in the University.

Yes, admitting mistakes and going by constitutional procedure. How DARE we accept such individuals? Society will surely crumble.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

For example, lets say you have one on the SU's stance on abortion. One side wins, but since the SU already fears this will happen, they don't hold an information session and hence the referendum falls. Kind of ridiculous no?

Implying that the current DCUSU didn't hold a neutral campaign for the sole reason of having a backdoor in case of a Yes vote is disgraceful and without grounds. Seriously.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

If I was a class rep in DCU, I would be calling for the impeachment of each person on elections committee and the SU President.

This is a massive overreaction. It's like cutting off someone's hand for dropping a pencil. The SU made an error, yes. They admitted to it and it is being rectified, as it should be. Screaming for blood is not a valid response.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Do you think its fair for 3 people to decide the stance on every single issue for an entire union? That is just wrong, no matter what way you look at it.

There are 3 sabbaticals on the SU Executive, yes. And 9 other, non-sabbatical officers. They do things too. Few decisions are made by the sabbatical officers alone. Furthermore, referenda are held to decide stances on major issues, such as the last one. And when they are run improperly, they are rerun. This is fairly integral to being fair and democratic.

It comes down to this; are you really saying that you'd overlook a constitutional error just to get your own way? Because that's what USI are saying; they would rather have a Yes by unconstitutional means than face the possibility of an informed No. And that is just not on.

mrkiscool2

Urizen wrote: »

Implying that the current DCUSU didn't hold a neutral campaign for the sole reason of having a backdoor in case of a Yes vote is disgraceful and without grounds. Seriously.

It is no secret that the DCUSU president clearly opposed USI. If they didn't want the vote, then all they have to do is refuse to do an information evening. If you don't believe that certain people won't stoop so low to ensure that their viewpoint is upheld is a massive mistake, seeing as in the last few years we have seen how petty SU sabbats, delegations to congress and SU's as a whole can be

Urizen wrote: »

This is a massive overreaction. It's like cutting off someone's hand for dropping a pencil. The SU made an error, yes. They admitted to it and it is being rectified, as it should be. Screaming for blood is not a valid response.

Yet it has happened 3 times in 10 years, and we (as part of a delegation at USI congress) were told that DCUSU was trying to find a way out of the result of the constitution. That means they are automatically trying to subvert the will of the students. Again, whether or not you agree with the result that is going against what the students voted, regardless if one student over quoram or the whole student body voted, it doesn't matter.

Urizen wrote: »

There are 3 sabbaticals on the SU Executive, yes. And 9 other, non-sabbatical officers. They do things too. Few decisions are made by the sabbatical officers alone. Furthermore, referenda are held to decide stances on major issues, such as the last one. And when they are run improperly, they are rerun. This is fairly integral to being fair and democratic.

You clearly don't understand the role of elections committee. The committee is made up of the sabbatical officers, and it its their responsibility to uphold the constitution as a whole i.e. run the information evening, ensure that everything necessary for the referendum is there. So part-timers actually have no say in elections committee. I know this as I am a part-timer in an SU.

Urizen wrote: »

It comes down to this; are you really saying that you'd overlook a constitutional error just to get your own way? Because that's what USI are saying; they would rather have a Yes by unconstitutional means than face the possibility of an informed No. And that is just not on.

Of course not, I would just be demanding an explanation (at the very least) as to how it happened in the first place.

Urizen

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

It is no secret that the DCUSU president clearly opposed USI. If they didn't want the vote, then all they have to do is refuse to do an information evening. If you don't believe that certain people won't stoop so low to ensure that their viewpoint is upheld is a massive mistake, seeing as in the last few years we have seen how petty SU sabbats, delegations to congress and SU's as a whole can be

I personally know the members of the SU Executive so no, I don't think they're petty enough to declare a referendum void just because they didn't like the outcome, nor that they would contrive a complex escape clause instead of actually running a campaign. I will not point out the irony of a pro-USI individual calling others petty, in the wake of their very public temper tantrum :P

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Yet it has happened 3 times in 10 years, and we (as part of a delegation at USI congress) were told that DCUSU was trying to find a way out of the result of the constitution. That means they are automatically trying to subvert the will of the students. Again, whether or not you agree with the result that is going against what the students voted, regardless if one student over quoram or the whole student body voted, it doesn't matter.

To dust off an old chestnut, pics or it didn't happen. Who told you this? Are they willing to be named and quoted on this? Was it, dare I say, someone who supported USI? Or an infiltrator in that 'small cohort' of rebellious rapscallions we've heard so much about? Reptilians?

Now I love talking conspiracy theories, but usually a shred of proof adds flavour to wild, unfounded claims of cover-ups and mysterious informants.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

You clearly don't understand the role of elections committee. The committee is made up of the sabbatical officers, and it its their responsibility to uphold the constitution as a whole i.e. run the information evening, ensure that everything necessary for the referendum is there. So part-timers actually have no say in elections committee. I know this as I am a part-timer in an SU.

And I was a DCUSU Executive member at the time of the last USI referendum, so I have a surprisingly strong grasp on how these things work. Regardless, I wasn't talking about the elections. You said "Do you think its fair for 3 people to decide the stance on every single issue for an entire union?" I was merely pointing out that they, quite simply, don't. Please try to read what I say in context, look at the messes that can be caused by such simple errors.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Of course not, I would just be demanding an explanation (at the very least) as to how it happened in the first place.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But if we could keep the wild accusations to a minimum, for the moment, that'd be super.

mrkiscool2

Urizen wrote: »

I personally know the members of the SU Executive so no, I don't think they're petty enough to declare a referendum void just because they didn't like the outcome, nor that they would contrive a complex escape clause instead of actually running a campaign. I will not point out the irony of a pro-USI individual calling others petty, in the wake of their very public temper tantrum :P

Now, I don't want this to descend into one of those spates were people go at each other for stupid reasons, but can you justify defending the current full-timers "because you know them" and then discredit me because i am "pro-USI?" Not really, that is irony.

However, onto the real point. Yes, I am pro-USI, but that doesn't mean I don't think student shouldn't have a say and if a majority wants to leave more power to them! Also, I'm pissed off at USI's reaction, it was very childish. However, even if the referendum isn't legitimate due to issues on all sides, should the Election Committee and the SU have done more? Your darn tooting they should have, and until they have a legitimate reason as to why they didn't do all this crap in the first place a lot of people won't be satisfied.

Urizen wrote: »

To dust off an old chestnut, pics or it didn't happen. Who told you this? Are they willing to be named and quoted on this? Was it, dare I say, someone who supported USI? Or an infiltrator in that 'small cohort' of rebellious rapscallions we've heard so much about? Reptilians?

Now I love talking conspiracy theories, but usually a shred of proof adds flavour to wild, unfounded claims of cover-ups and mysterious informants.

Right, ok I can confirm a member of Officerboard and 2 of our sabbats told me this (all of whom I trust). If you want the names, PM, but I won't leak sources here publicly. I am sure you can appreciate that as a former Exec member.

Urizen wrote: »

And I was a DCUSU Executive member at the time of the last USI referendum, so I have a surprisingly strong grasp on how these things work. Regardless, I wasn't talking about the elections. You said "Do you think its fair for 3 people to decide the stance on every single issue for an entire union?" I was merely pointing out that they, quite simply, don't. Please try to read what I say in context, look at the messes that can be caused by such simple errors.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But if we could keep the wild accusations to a minimum, for the moment, that'd be super.

Definitely could have worded what I said better to be fair. And the original post was quite reactionary, so for that I do apologise. However, until this is cleared up (and I should hope it would be done early tomorrow) I will remain skeptical.

Garseys

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Yet it has happened 3 times in 10 years, and we (as part of a delegation at USI congress) were told that DCUSU was trying to find a way out of the result of the constitution. That means they are automatically trying to subvert the will of the students. Again, whether or not you agree with the result that is going against what the students voted, regardless if one student over quoram or the whole student body voted, it doesn't matter.

Could you elaborate the 3 times in 10 years comment? do you mean 3 USI referenda or 3 referenda that there were issues with DCUSU and things being declared null and void.

mrkiscool2

Garseys wrote: »

Could you elaborate the 3 times in 10 years comment? do you mean 3 USI referenda or 3 referenda that there were issues with DCUSU and things being declared null and void.

The latter. It's the President's and Elections Committee responsibility to consult the constitution regularly, especially before elections and referenda. It shouldn't even happen once.

Urizen

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Now, I don't want this to descend into one of those spates were people go at each other for stupid reasons, but can you justify defending the current full-timers "because you know them" and then discredit me because i am "pro-USI?" Not really, that is irony.

I can justify this, yes. I trust that they wouldn't behave like petulant children because they didn't get their way. This is not because of their positions, but because I know them. And I didn't mean it to come off as attempting to discredit you personally, just saying that USI are acting like spoiled toddlers right now (which you see too), and to call another organisation petty at the moment is very pot-kettle.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

However, onto the real point. Yes, I am pro-USI, but that doesn't mean I don't think student shouldn't have a say and if a majority wants to leave more power to them! Also, I'm pissed off at USI's reaction, it was very childish. However, even if the referendum isn't legitimate due to issues on all sides, should the Election Committee and the SU have done more? Your darn tooting they should have, and until they have a legitimate reason as to why they didn't do all this crap in the first place a lot of people won't be satisfied.

Which is why I said we'll wait to hear the full story, and not jump to wild conclusions. And also wait to see the results of a proper, constitutional referendum.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Right, ok I can confirm a member of Officerboard and 2 of our sabbats told me this (all of whom I trust). If you want the names, PM, but I won't leak sources here publicly. I am sure you can appreciate that as a former Exec member.

But where did they hear it? I honestly don't care myself about the names, I meant that to be rhetorical. I'm just permanently sceptical of 'anonymous sources' revealing things like this, in any form (politics, journalism, etc). And I certainly don't believe it for a second. So if that kind of accusation is going to be made, a concrete, public source is required, not some shadowy figure of questionable reliance and goals (who may or may not exist).

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Definitely could have worded what I said better to be fair. And the original post was quite reactionary, so for that I do apologise. However, until this is cleared up (and I should hope it would be done early tomorrow) I will remain skeptical.

Accepted and understandable, in that order

ldxo15wus6fpgm

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

how any of ye can honestly defend the actions of your SU Sabats... ye should be calling for their heads... this sets an extremely dangerous precedent for any future referendum... I would be calling for the impeachment of each person on elections committee and the SU President.

The 'setting a dangerous precedent' part I loved most, it's been ripped straight out of an article from the indo.
Classic fearmongering and sh*t stirring.

To be honest I'm not surprised at the mistakes that were made. Most of DCU pays the USI and anything to do with it very little attention and I wouldn't be shocked if the SU don't pay it much attention anymore either. Most class reps didn't give it too much thought either (I am one of those - my main reason being we are a final year class).

Interesting how USI didn't make any noise over it until it was working against them.

Kavrocks

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

I actually don't understand how any of ye can honestly defend the actions of your SU Sabats? Like, they made such a massive fcuk up ye should be calling for their heads. Fair enough if you don't agree with the result of the referendum, but this sets an extremely dangerous precedent for any future referendum in the University.

For example, lets say you have one on the SU's stance on abortion. One side wins, but since the SU already fears this will happen, they don't hold an information session and hence the referendum falls. Kind of ridiculous no? If I was a class rep in DCU, I would be calling for the impeachment of each person on elections committee and the SU President.

Do you mind me asking if you are a DCU student or a member of USI?

ldxo15wus6fpgm

I think the answer is fairly obvious to both of those questions!

mrkiscool2

Liberty Sparse Elbow wrote: »

I think the answer is fairly obvious to both of those questions!

And what would they be? I love when people tell me about my own life :rolleyes:

Green Diesel

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

And what would they be? I love when people tell me about my own life :rolleyes:

DCU student? - From looking at your post history, I'm pretty sure you're in NUIG.

USI member - Assuming only members can be part of a delegation, yes, according to post #38.

You coud clarify if I'm incorrect.

mrkiscool2

Green Diesel wrote: »

DCU student? - From looking at your post history, I'm pretty sure you're in NUIG.

USI member - Assuming only members can be part of a delegation, yes, according to post #38.

You coud clarify if I'm incorrect.

Currently in NUIG, transferred from DCU in 1st year, was having problems in the area and was removed from both my family and girlfriend. Obviously a part of USI, but I will never say it hasn't got any problems. It has, pretty gaping ones aswell. But once more I will say this isn't about USI. It's about your election committee and SU not upholding their own constitution and when they fail to do so they call the result null and void. What I want to know is why?

ldxo15wus6fpgm

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

And what would they be? I love when people tell me about my own life :rolleyes:

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Currently in NUIG, transferred from DCU in 1st year, was having problems in the area and was removed from both my family and girlfriend. Obviously a part of USI, but I will never say it hasn't got any problems. It has, pretty gaping ones aswell. But once more I will say this isn't about USI. It's about your election committee and SU not upholding their own constitution and when they fail to do so they call the result null and void. What I want to know is why?

So yes then, the obvious answers were the right ones...

p1akuw47h5r3it

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Currently in NUIG, transferred from DCU in 1st year, was having problems in the area and was removed from both my family and girlfriend. Obviously a part of USI, but I will never say it hasn't got any problems. It has, pretty gaping ones aswell. But once more I will say this isn't about USI. It's about your election committee and SU not upholding their own constitution and when they fail to do so they call the result null and void. What I want to know is why?

What I want to know is why would anyone care. Irrelevant organisation is irrelevant...

Grudaire

DanDan6592 wrote: »

What I want to know is why would anyone care. Irrelevant organisation is irrelevant...

Amen,

DCU has voted to stay out of the USI on a few occasions in the past 10(?) years, I can't believe that it was put to the student body only two years after being rejected by the student body (Lisbon treaty much?)

What I don't get is why anyone thinks that DCU students should want to sacrifice a pretty huge amount from their budget to a bunch of lackies who really just want a leg up for their own political careers.

carlowboy

LOL @ the seethe in all of this.

It's not like the SU or USI actually do anything important. Or anything at all for that matter

carlowboy

Cliste wrote: »

Amen,

DCU has voted to stay out of the USI on a few occasions in the past 10(?) years, I can't believe that it was put to the student body only two years after being rejected by the student body (Lisbon treaty much?)

What I don't get is why anyone thinks that DCU students should want to sacrifice a pretty huge amount from their budget to a bunch of lackies who really just want a leg up for their own political careers.

Hi Cliste *waves*

Grudaire

Heya Carlowboy!

Besta luck with the exams man!