Another USI referendum?

caldera85

i read in the recent College View that someone is trying to collect signatures to hold another referendum on whether to rejoin USI. Why is this an issue again? we had a vote not 2 years ago and we said no then. what has changed since? the only thing is see is that the (majority) of the student body is changed.

Isaac702

Not again.

Honestly I couldn't see any major benefit of being a member of the USI when it was put to a vote the last time around.
There is no need to put it to a vote again when relatively little has changed.

Garseys

wouldn't be surprised to see this come up as an issue again. Seems to come up once every two years at this stage....

GRMA

I wonder what is with the secrecy? Why are the people involved reluctant to have their name's printed?

One of the individuals involved is Sean Cassidy, he was elected to the OSL last year.

The only thing that has changed with the USI since the last time DCU voted is that the president of the USI, Gary Redmond, has been replaced by John Logue. He seems to be in the same mold, another product of Fianna Fáil's Kevin Barry Cumann in UCD, another hanger on of their super successful, extremely well run SU. He's also in favour of a graduate tax rather than the USI's mandated position.

If one voted No last time, why should they vote yes this time?

Garseys

GRMA wrote: »

If one voted No last time, why should they vote yes this time?

the wonders of referenda, Could this be DCU's lisbon II? :pac:

Joking aside, its up to CRC at the end of the day to decide and there is already/should be a referendum looming on the fee's question (from last year which was deferred)

Personally, I don't see a problem with another referendum but I'm sure the SU Executive/CRC/Student body would prefer other issues to be tackled.

phantom_lord

Isaac702 wrote: »

Not again.

Honestly I couldn't see any major benefit of being a member of the USI

Main benefit is for the members of the SU, gives them access to more positions and influence. It's the reason why the issue keeps being pushed despite the student body making it clear they're not interested.

Urizen

It's ludicrous. Bringing this up yet again, especially so soon after the last referendum, will only serve to detract from time the SU could actually be doing things. It's basically another two weeks wasted with bullsh*t.

There was actually some decent reasoning behind it. It had been quite some time since the last referendum, and feelings of the student body may well have changed in the interim (can't remember the specific timeframe). However, a simple change in President does not equate to a total change in policy, and the arguments against re-affiliating remain as valid as ever. At least, I see no other differences in USI. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

Phantom Lord, I'm inclined to agree with you this time around. I miss the days when careerists used to be subtle..

Deckof52

Lisbon II is a bit of a rich comparison. Two new streams of students have come into DCU its time for them to decide on the merits or demerits of USI, untainted by the playschool politics that is pandered by DCU SUs political classes.

There are two questions people should ask themselves about such a referenda:

1.) Do you want/believe in having a national students' union?

2.) What are the areas of reform needed in the USI or is there a legitimate alternative to USI?

If a debate on this issue consists of discussion of the ambitions of USI Officers, personal experience with Officers or actions taken by USI then the fundamental argument is skewed away from being about the two questions into discussing petty politics surrounded by egotism and huberus!

Urizen

Deckof52 wrote: »

If a debate on this issue consists of discussion of the ambitions of USI Officers, personal experience with Officers or actions taken by USI then the fundamental argument is skewed away from being about the two questions into discussing petty politics surrounded by egotism and hubris!

All three of those points are central to the discussion. The first two are like saying "Sure it doesn't matter who's elected in to government, it's the only government around."
Also, and this might just be me, but I would have thought that actions taken by USI in the past, as well as those likely to be taken in the future, would play a pretty significant role in the discussion, since it's them we'd be joining.
While I understand that you don't want to focus on these kinds of shenanigans, you can't argue that they're irrelevant. Track records mean something.

Also, I do not think that two years is long enough to consider another referendum. Realistically, I don't see how anyone could.

On a personal note, I really don't like the idea of consolidating into USI. I have found that the kind of people drawn to working within such an organisation (and I target no particular individuals with this) are inherently self serving and, as a consequence, untrustworthy. A substantial proportion of those getting involved are doing so not out of altruism or the wish to help students (although I'm sure they like to think that's why), but to pave the way for future political careers. They may have good intentions but I, personally, think this is entirely counter to what representation should be, and would not want to associate with them. This could, of course, be argued of anyone involved in anything. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Garseys

Deckof52 wrote: »

Lisbon II is a bit of a rich comparison. Two new streams of students have come into DCU its time for them to decide on the merits or demerits of USI, untainted by the playschool politics that is pandered by DCU SUs political classes.

There are two questions people should ask themselves about such a referenda:

1.) Do you want/believe in having a national students' union?

2.) What are the areas of reform needed in the USI or is there a legitimate alternative to USI?

If a debate on this issue consists of discussion of the ambitions of USI Officers, personal experience with Officers or actions taken by USI then the fundamental argument is skewed away from being about the two questions into discussing petty politics surrounded by egotism and huberus!

My Lisbon II was in jest :pac:

And I agree with your points, those questions should be asked of the student body but I believe that more pressing issues will overtake this that are more relevant to students. (The increasing reg fee, cutbacks in departments).

And Urizen has a very good point in terms of peoples opinions of USI. USI have had a bad track record recently with Gary Redmond at the helm to some people, it's those people who regardless of the questions in debates being asked will target that in their campaigning.

On the flipside, I do see benefits in USI, but not in it's current form and my main concern is if DCUSU were to rejoin our voice on it would soon be silenced and things return to their status quo.

I must try make an appearance in person if a USI debate goes ahead (of course on permission of the CRC Chair :pac: )

polkabunny

Garseys wrote: »

Joking aside, its up to CRC at the end of the day to decide and there is already/should be a referendum looming on the fee's question (from last year which was deferred)

As far as I know, if they get the number of signatures required then the referendum goes ahead... Could be wrong though, I can't remember the ins and outs.

Garseys wrote: »

I must try make an appearance in person if a USI debate goes ahead (of course on permission of the CRC Chair :pac: )

Anyone is allowed to attend CRC and state their opinion, as was used by a representative of FEE DCU regularly last year :rolleyes:
They can chuck you out if you're being bauld though!

If the petition gets the required signatures I have to wonder about who signed it... DCU is much better off with being affiliated to USI. I love that DCU is basically an independent college

Urizen

polkabunny wrote: »

Anyone is allowed to attend CRC and state their opinion, as was used by a representative of FEE DCU regularly last year :rolleyes:

Graduated students have to ask nicely :P

polkabunny wrote: »

If the petition gets the required signatures I have to wonder about who signed it...

Hand a student something, it's pretty likely they'll sign it just so you leave them alone. At this rate, I'm pretty sure that if I started a petition to get the Labyrinth instated as President for Life, I'd get the signatures...

GRMA

Sean Cassidy has the number of signatures required, but afaik he hasn't presented the petition to the SU yet. Once he does present it the referendum must be held withing a month. So says the College View anyway.

NDA2

Just to clear up this matter, during the announcement of the results from the last USI referendum at CRC (or Union Council as it was then) it was agreed that the matter would be revisited in two years time.
This is why the USI debate has come up again.

Also the list of signatures has not been handed in yet as the referendum would have to be within a month of the Exec receiving them, as we have no electoral committee as of yet, it would be hard to do.
Also with the announcement of a fees referendum to be held this semester, as per the college view, there really is no point submitting them until next semester. As per the SU constitution, there is to be only one referendum topic per semester.

XPS

Incorrect. There can only be one referendum on the same topic each semester. But all the rest is logical.

NDA2

Apologies, you are correct, it must have just been an unwritten understanding over the past few years.

Transition Metal

I think a referendum on the topic would be a good idea. Two years on, more then half the undergraduates that voted last time have graduated, and been replaced by new students. In light of the push this year to increase involvement in the SU by the CRC, I think that more opportunities to allow the student body their say in SU matters is a logical step in the right direction. If the motion fails again, so be it. It'll offer a good reflection of the views of the current student populace of DCU.

face1990

If DCU were a USI member, would we be having referendums on it every 2 years? Or do we just have endless referendums until a yes vote is passed?

Green Diesel

This vote is on today and tomorrow.

OctavarIan

face1990 wrote: »

Or do we just have endless referendums until a yes vote is passed?

That's generally the way it works yeah.

Sierra Oscar

Looks like DCU has voted to re-join the USI.

Urizen

Yay, time for endless referendums to disaffiliate!

p1akuw47h5r3it

Pissed this passed. The USI is a useless, joke of an organisation. Noone takes them seriously.

I'd rather the money go towards DCUSU than USI. Be more beneficial for all.

Gunslinger92

^ I know for a fact some of my friends voted yes just because a guy we know was a yes campaigner. urgh.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Gunslinger92 wrote: »

^ I know for a fact some of my friends voted yes just because a guy we know was a yes campaigner. urgh.

Is there anyway to refuse to give your money?!

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Don't think so.
I imagine this is because the second individuals started opting not join USI, their numbers would probably decrease by about 80% when others start doing the same.

I'd love if membership of USI was an individual option for students themselves to decide on. It'd give an accurate figure of their actual supporters. I think it'd save a lot of hassle for colleges too.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Liberty Sparse Elbow wrote: »

Don't think so.
I imagine this is because the second individuals started opting not join USI, their numbers would probably decrease by about 80% when others start doing the same.

I'd love if membership of USI was an individual option for students themselves to decide on. It'd give an accurate figure of their actual supporters. I think it'd save a lot of hassle for colleges too.

Ye that would be great and the fairest option imo.

The USI have almost zero support. The majority of students don't care about it and student politics in general. Those who do a majority or large minority don't care for it. The numbers who do would be very small.

SO for these reasons there is not a hope that this will ever happen!

When did we vote to allow outside organisations in to the campus to campaign?

myk

It looks like this referendum was completely botched by;

The yes campaign by not putting forward a motion which explicitly stated how the DCU student body would be affiliated and how fees would be deducted in compliance with the University regulations

The SU Executive by not running an information campaign as they are mandated to

The Returning Officer and Electoral Committee by failing to understand referendum rules and ensure that the referendum was run in line with the SU constitution

More info here

http://www.thejournal.ie/dcu-usi-affiliation-referendum-students-849938-Mar2013/

http://thecollegeview.com/2013/03/29/usi-affiliation-referendum-timeline-of-events/

By the way this is as far as I know the 3rd botched election or referendum by DCUSU in the last 10 years. How many **** ups does it take to learn from the mistakes of your predecessors.

p1akuw47h5r3it

myk wrote: »

It looks like this referendum was completely botched by;

The yes campaign by not putting forward a motion which explicitly stated how the DCU student body would be affiliated and how fees would be deducted in compliance with the University regulations

The SU Executive by not running an information campaign as they are mandated to

The Returning Officer and Electoral Committee by failing to understand referendum rules and ensure that the referendum was run in line with the SU constitution

More info here

http://www.thejournal.ie/dcu-usi-affiliation-referendum-students-849938-Mar2013/

http://thecollegeview.com/2013/03/29/usi-affiliation-referendum-timeline-of-events/

By the way this is as far as I know the 3rd botched election or referendum by DCUSU in the last 10 years. How many **** ups does it take to learn from the mistakes of your predecessors.

I'm delighted. If they decide to have yet another referendum I'm sure to get involved on the no side this time.

andyman

Yep. USI really haven't taken this one nicely. Slamming students and the SU of this university is just feeding ammo for the No side next time around. I'm delighted in a way, the student body will finally see the true colours of USI and what they stand for.

I heard that USI delegates (including John Logue) were interrupting lectures during their campaigns? What an absolute disgrace that is if it's true. They shouldn't have been allowed on campus in the first place and I doubt they'll be allowed on again.