Would you buy "raw" milk? (poll attached)

Emeraldy Pebbles

I wouldn't personally. The people I know who have had raw milk have almost ALL got brucellosis from it. I asked some of them was it worth it - an emphatic no.

Mountainsandh

No

I wish Ireland would losen up a bit regarding food safety. The Safe Food ads make my blood boil.
I grew up eating Saucisson (cured sausage), our favourite bits as kids were sucking on the skins (mouldy yeasty salty goodness), and mouldy cheeses, and never got sick from these. I don't wait until the juices run clear to eat my meat, and you should see the 90% raw 10% browned on the outside meat my sister feeds her entire family (2 year old baby included).


I'd hazard a guess that gastro enteritis of the epidemic type (passed on from people to people) sends more people to hospital yearly than all the "raw" un-pasteurised foods in France.

It would certainly encourage and support a lot of smaller businesses if the health and safety regulations weren't so restrictive in Ireland. I'd buy the milk, even from the machine !
If I got sick for a day or 2 from it, then I would stop buying the raw milk. Simples.

Madam Marie

corkoian wrote: »

Ok ill give a bit of background - Im a farmer looking to be less dependant on the fluctuating milk price. Raw milk is a great product but im sure shops are not aloud stock it (open to correction) so its only aloud be sold from "farm gate or farmers market". Vending machines would be an alternative to this. I would be the only supplier to these machines cause I personally would like to maintain 100% traceability. Heck if it came to it I'd throw my contact details on the machine and tell anyone that wants a tour to just give me a call

corkoian wrote: »

I have found a website about the ban but not much on it imo. http://www.rawmilkireland.com/

I have seen it for sale at a few farmer's markets.

There is a big demand for raw milk products. I buy a French raw milk butter from Cavistons and I buy raw Goat's cheese from Fallon & Byrne (St Tola).

Have you thought of branching out into food production, might even be grants available for you to get further study. No farmer in Ireland is offering butter made from unpasteurized milk yet, you could be the first and I can assure you, there is a massive market for it.

In Wales you can get the stuff delivered every morning - it just has a different colour cap.

Anyone remember when birds used to peck through the tops of bottles for the cream? I don't think I have seen cream rising to the top of milk in twenty years or more.

Oh and for anyone who says they would never eat any raw milk products, especially when pregnant, all Parmesan cheese is made from unpasteurized milk, which is something that is not too well known.

Stinicker

No

My father is in hix sixties now and said when was a child he would often milk the cow straight into a bottle and take it school with him with sandwiches of homemade bread. Living in rural Ireland back in the late fifties I'm sure it was a common enough thing. I've only drank "real" milk a few times and it is much nicer than that white water that they sell in supermarkets. Not a big milk drinker but if it was possible to buy natural "raw" milk I'd buy it and drink it too!

noxqs

I've seen cows get milked. Theres feces in the milk, I can guarantee you that. After watching that, I will not buy raw milk really, and having tasted both - ie pasteurized non skimmed milk, just pasteurized 'raw' milk vs the raw thing non-pasteurized. I couldn't really tell a difference. I'd buy real raw milk, albeit pasteurized if I could get it.

corkoian

Madam Marie wrote: »

I have seen it for sale at a few farmer's markets.

There is a big demand for raw milk products. I buy a French raw milk butter from Cavistons and I buy raw Goat's cheese from Fallon & Byrne (St Tola).

Have you thought of branching out into food production, might even be grants available for you to get further study. No farmer in Ireland is offering butter made from unpasteurized milk yet, you could be the first and I can assure you, there is a massive market for it.

In Wales you can get the stuff delivered every morning - it just has a different colour cap.

Anyone remember when birds used to peck through the tops of bottles for the cream? I don't think I have seen cream rising to the top of milk in twenty years or more.

Oh and for anyone who says they would never eat any raw milk products, especially when pregnant, all Parmesan cheese is made from unpasteurized milk, which is something that is not too well known.

Thanks, ill look into it. It would also help solve the problem with fluctuating milk yield where i would have more supply than demand!
I have a 80 cow herd and would hope to be self reliant and free from the control of the large co-ops!

Mountainsandh

No

hhhhmmm raw milk butter... imagine the caramels you'd make out of that too

edit : or fudge ? is it fudge ?

admiralofthefleet

No

sure my mother's partner in his mid sixties told me he was fed raw milk from a guinness bottle as a baby because there was no baby's bottles then. he is still here to tell the tale.
its the same with the reduced section in the supermarket (salmoella corner i call it). my wife squirms when i go to it but i buy whatever we need from whats available there. i bought organic cows milk from it last friday that was out of date that day and i only threw the empty carton in the bin yesterday
food safety has gont too serious

Madam Marie

corkoian wrote: »

Thanks, ill look into it. It would also help solve the problem with fluctuating milk yield where i would have more supply than demand!
I have a 80 cow herd and would hope to be self reliant and free from the control of the large co-ops!

I suggest contacting Aidan Harney who runs Ballymore Farm:

http://ballymorefarm.com/

I'm sure he would be glad to offer you any advice and help you need transitioning - best of luck.

Mountainsandh

No

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

food safety has gont too serious

Yes, and paradoxically, I find that when I buy meat over here, it must, it surely must be re-labelled, because it doesn't last the 5 or 6 days it should. :rolleyes:

I love all the Irish cheeses I've tasted, that black one (some name kindalike Gumbeen or something ?), yum, I've tasted some soft ones like camembers too, Irish made, the blue cheeses... they're all gorgeous, OP I wish you luck with it, despite the hurdles in your way, I do think like other posters maybe cheese or butter would be more marketable.

corkoian

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Yes, and paradoxically, I find that when I buy meat over here, it must, it surely must be re-labelled, because it doesn't last the 5 or 6 days it should. :rolleyes:

I love all the Irish cheeses I've tasted, that black one (some name kindalike Gumbeen or something ?), yum, I've tasted some soft ones like camembers too, Irish made, the blue cheeses... they're all gorgeous, OP I wish you luck with it, despite the hurdles in your way, I do think like other posters maybe cheese or butter would be more marketable.

Thanks for the advice. In regard to meat, i supply a local butcher with cattle which are slaughtered locally. Health and safety are trying there best to shut him down no matter what they do

KKkitty

My dad was a lorry driver for years collecting milk from farmers. He often brought home raw milk and it was a lot nicer than pasteurised milk. I'm sure quite a few would turn their noses up at it now though. When raw milk was the only milk available back then it did no harm and my mam and aunt told me some of their kids when they were babies were fed with it before the advent of formulas and they thrived on it. Way too much nonsense these days with what's good for you and what's not. Better to get it straight from the farm in some cases before god knows what's goes into it.

guppy

Lannigan wrote: »

Totally agree, used to drunk it regurally as a kid and well into my late teens. So much tastier and creamier. People are too fussy about food these days. If it was going to kill people we wouldn't be here now as our parents would be dead already!

There are a few people I know who won't use the small drop in one milk carton and mix with a new carton as "I don't like mixing milk from different cows". When they told me this I nearly fell down laughing! They know in reality it's all mixed, but mixing cartons makes it "real".

I used to drink cows milk from my cousins cow, after being strained through a muslin cloth. Was feckin great!

Mind you, I would question the cleanliness of a milk vending machine (how do I know it's sterilised regularly?) and would probably not use one.

The middle inch

It's an interesting topic this. I grew up on raw milk and have a great fondness for it. I have always preferred it to shop milk. Artisan producers have developed some fantastoc food from raw milk. However, there is another side to this debate. The export of irish dairy products is one of our largest earners today. Ireland is one of the largest producers of baby formula from milk in the world. Our butter and cheese can be found on the shelves of supermarkets in the most distant corners of the planet. One of the main foundations of this success is decades of work building consumer confidence in dairy products. While some may say our food production is overregulated, this minimises any food scares. Around the world, scares with beef, pork, chicken and vegetables shows how quickly such consumer confidence evaporates following a crisis and how hard it is to build up that trust again. Our dairy industry is under enough pressure as it is and can well do without a similar scare. The consequences would be crippling on irish dairying. It is on this basis that many stakeholders feel selling raw milk is an exposure we can do without. If a scare developed from a raw milk product, it would be very difficult for that not to impact on the processed dairy sector.

af_thefragile

Well I never really liked milk much but I did drink raw milk when I was a kid. So did my parents.
I don't get how suddenly raw milk has become this toxic, bacteria infested, poisonous chemical which will completely screw your body over while nothing has happened to me or may parents after years of consuming raw milk.

Its sorta funny how people now are all too concerned about making sure their food is all sterile and safe and doesn't have anything harmful in it but then have no problem going on a bender over the weekend and doing serious amounts of damage to some of the most important organs in your body.

Pride Fighter

Voted no myself. Pasteurisation makes milk safe to drink. However, I would like un-homogonised milk so I can get the cream in it.

Capt'n Midnight

guppy wrote: »

There are a few people I know who won't use the small drop in one milk carton and mix with a new carton as "I don't like mixing milk from different cows". When they told me this I nearly fell down laughing!

The reason for not mixing milk at home is the bacteria in milk that's going sour will have a field day in fresh milk and make it go sour too.

Capt'n Midnight

KKkitty wrote: »

When raw milk was the only milk available back then it did no harm

Have you ever met someone with TB ? :mad:

Do you realise just how many TB sanatoriums there were in this country ?

http://www.rte.ie/tv/outbreak/s1_ep2.html

reland of the 1940s was one of the poorest countries in Europe. Four thousand people were dying from tuberculosis every year. A diagnosis of TB was like being handed a death sentence. Many young men and women in Ireland spent long years in the artificial world of the TB sanatorium, and most expected to die there. There was a terrible stigma attached to the disease, which was rarely spoken of directly. The sanatorium was often on the edge of a town, and had an uncomfortable relationship with the townspeople

Lannigan

Lannigan wrote: »

If it was going to kill people we wouldn't be here now as our parents would be dead already!

Yeah but generally the people killed by it and other silliness don't have kids to spout cliches on the internet.

meoklmrk91

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

KKkitty wrote: »

When raw milk was the only milk available back then it did no harm

Have you ever met someone with TB ? :mad:

Do you realise just how many TB sanatoriums there were in this country ?

http://www.rte.ie/tv/outbreak/s1_ep2.html

reland of the 1940s was one of the poorest countries in Europe. Four thousand people were dying from tuberculosis every year. A diagnosis of TB was like being handed a death sentence. Many young men and women in Ireland spent long years in the artificial world of the TB sanatorium, and most expected to die there. There was a terrible stigma attached to the disease, which was rarely spoken of directly. The sanatorium was often on the edge of a town, and had an uncomfortable relationship with the townspeople

TB in cattle is not actually a zoonisis(transmittable from animals to humans) it's a different strain. However Brucellosis is, its highly contagious through unpasturised dairy products and meat, and you'd be a sorry fecker if your got it because you decided you missed the cream on the top of the milk.

Plus do people really trust farmers (particularly old school ones) to live up to health and safety standards, because I don't, like every profession there are imcompetent idiots out there. I know of an old school farmer who refuses to wash his cows udders ever! Which they are supposed to do before milking because he believes that it washes away all the "nutrients". Think about that next time your draining a glass of unpasturised milk.

I do agree that we have gone a bit mad with use by dates etc. but just use common sense, if it's 2 days out of date but smells good and looks good your more than likely grand, I don't look at the use by dates on anything other than meat and I am grand.

guppy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The reason for not mixing milk at home is the bacteria in milk that's going sour will have a field day in fresh milk and make it go sour too.

So not mixing a drop of milk from bottle A which goes off in 10 days time with a drop of milk from bottle B which goes off in 11 days time is actually sensible and normal? Fair enough, guess I'm lucky that so far, in 34 years, I've just never suffered any ill-effects. (plus their reason wasn't bacteria, it was mixing milk from different cows)

Mountainsandh

No

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

TB in cattle is not actually a zoonisis(transmittable from animals to humans) it's a different strain. However Brucellosis is, its highly contagious through unpasturised dairy products and meat, and you'd be a sorry fecker if your got it because you decided you missed the cream on the top of the milk.
.

But how come the French population is not largely incapacitated by brucellosis then ? Most French people I know have unpasteurised cheeses (and meats) etc... daily.

Is it that the immune system builds up nicely to the challenge ? or that there is a way to curb the incidence of brucellosis without having to pasteurize ?
Aren't cows well tested and treated for TB nowadays ?

I'm not being narky here or sarcastic, just curious. How can 2 neighbouring countries be so different in that regard ? Country A produces and consumes unpasteurized foods with no obvious food poisoning or epidemic issues, Country B does not for allow unpasteurized foods (or very little) for fear of food poisoning and epidemic issues.

A poster above said well, Ireland sell milk products for baby formula powder, there's a reputation to be preserved... but more than likely the same situation exists in France too, whereby small producers of worm covered cheeses do not mix and are not confused with Nestle and Yoplai employees ?
People continue to feed their children Petit Filous, marketed with a French name, all the way from a blue cheese producing country.

ted1

It's hard to get fresh milk on the continent, its mostly long life milk out on regular shelves. I think our milk is the best. How anyone can put long life milk in the cereal bowl is beyond me.

Savker

No

Bring it on I say. This country is gone mad with regs

Mrmoe

No

It would be nice to have but I think it would be difficult to market. You would need fairly stringent gurantees about the quality of the milk and the quality of the vending machine. I think it would work but possibly only as a niche market.Would it be necessary to test the milk prior to sale? This could potentially add a delay.One day old milk is alot nicer than 3 day old milk but then again raw milk is a lot tatsier than pasteurised.

stoneill

No

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

TB in cattle is not actually a zoonisis(transmittable from animals to humans) it's a different strain. However Brucellosis is, its highly contagious through unpasturised dairy products and meat, and you'd be a sorry fecker if your got it because you decided you missed the cream on the top of the milk.

I though that pasteurised milk was sterile but still had the cream, it is homogonised milk that breaks up the cream.

Cleopatra wants a bath in milk - the servants ask "do you want it pasteurised?"
No, just past me tits will do.

mickdw

No

Surely when the op says vending machine, it would be a machine selling sealed bottles, not milk from a tap. If that is the case, there are not too many issues with hygiene of the machine only hygiene within the farm and production.

Had it for years, never did us any hard. As for the person who said that nearly all people who drank it got tb, what a load of crap.

wendell borton

No

I have often got milk straight out of the bulk tank and never got anything. We seem to have a very strange attitude to food in this country given agriculture is the biggest industry.
The food safety bs realy pisses me off there is bacteria every where and for the most part does us no harm. But know everything has to be sprayed with chemicals containg god knows what and claim to kill 99.9% of bacteria etc., but our immune system is not getting a proper "workout" so when a realy harmful bacteria comes along the only defence is increasingly ineffective antibiotics.

Oafley Jones

Having worked in a dairy science lab, the answer is no.

Mugatuu

No

I grew up on a farm and drank raw milk for years so id have no problem drinking it, wouldn't buy it from the vending machine. The taste difference in raw milk and pasteurised milk is crazy, raw milk is so creamy!