Would you buy "raw" milk? (poll attached)

corkoian

Would you buy unpasteurized fresh milk from a self service machine similar to this? Its suppose to be big in Europe! (I know there is a lot of regulations)

http://www.lefrancophoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/milkbar.jpg


EDIT: Judging from the responses I should of left out the self service piece to get a more realistic view on raw milk.

Biggins

I'd be reluctant.
I know very many have lived off it for a long, long time but still drink it only as a last substitute for the current milk.

My name is URL

I wouldn't buy it from a machine like that but I buy it regularly from a local shop. It's far nicer imo. No real risk either unless you're pregnant or have an underlying condition.

Ghost Buster

Darn. I voted before reading the first post!!!
If i knew there was some sort of quality control then yes I would. Spent the first 14 years of my life on a dairy farm and never had pasteurised milk but we had a high hygene level. Many farmers didnt.

Lannigan

No

My name is URL wrote: »

I wouldn't buy it from a machine like that but I buy it regularly from a local shop

Totally agree, used to drunk it regurally as a kid and well into my late teens. So much tastier and creamier. People are too fussy about food these days. If it was going to kill people we wouldn't be here now as our parents would be dead already!

Patri

Definitely! For the cream at the top of the milk, you don't see that anymore! Anywhere you can buy it here?

jam_mac_jam

Not from a machine, maybe from a shop if it could be trusted. Its a bit disgusting but then milk is a bit yuk anyway, now raw cheese, yum yum.

girl in the striped socks

No. I don't really drink pasteurised milk as it is.
I keep getting flashbacks of being sent out to the bulk tank as a child with a jug to get milk for breakfast. I can still smell the parlour.
Vomit.

Most parts of europe don't have the tuberculosis levels that you find in Ireland so youre safer stick with the pasteurised or microfiltered product.
However the big difference is that farm milk is full fat milk whereas what most people buy in the shops is skimmed or semi skimmed milk.

senorwipesalot

That milk you get on the continent is fcukin stink.
You cant beat the Avonmore milky white goodness.

af_thefragile

Not from a freaking vending machine!

If its from a farm or something then I would...

Katunga

No

When I was in Australia I worked on two Dairy farms And I drank unpasteurized milk daily never had a problem as I would know if something went wrong as I was milking the cows.

corkoian

I don't know of any place currently selling it but I am in a position to do so. Just a passing taught but if i could see potential in it I would investigate further. As far as personal experience goes, I've lived off raw milk all my life only when the cows went dry in the winter would I have what i consider "watery" milk and in my opinion the raw milk has given me a great immune systems

Can i ask why you wouldn't by from a self service machine?

af_thefragile

corkoian wrote: »

Can i ask why you wouldn't by from a self service machine?

Cuz you don't really know how long the milk has been sitting in there.

If you buy it from a farm or a local store that sources it straight from a farm or something you know its fresh n all.

xper

corkoian wrote: »

Would you buy unpasteurized fresh milk from a self service machine similar to this? Its suppose to be big in Europe! (I know there is a lot of regulations)

http://www.lefrancophoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/milkbar.jpg

On first opening that picture, I really thought for a second that there was a cow inside that yoke.

I think the wine is kicking in.

My name is URL

corkoian wrote: »

Can i ask why you wouldn't by from a self service machine?

The milk I buy is directly traceable and exclusive to a local producer, that's the only reason I buy it tbh. If it was sold via a machine and the milk wasn't traceable to any one particular farm then I wouldn't be pushed on it.

Less chance of it being off if only one farm is involved.

LETHAL LADY

Breast is best. Is lady milk classed as raw milk and would you buy it from a self service machine?

Scortho

No

I remember about 15 years ago when I was 5 my uncle bringing in fresh milk in a big jug to my Granny from his milking parlour!
I can still taste the cream......:)





Also to those who say they wouldn't due to being afraid etc we shouldn't really be drinking cows milk anyway!

senorwipesalot

Scortho wrote: »

I remember about 15 years ago when I was 5 my uncle bringing in fresh milk in a big jug to my Granny from his milking parlour!
I can still taste the cream......:)

Cant get the image of your Grannys big jugs out of my head.

Dublin Red Devil

No

if i knew it came from a local farm and was produced to a high standard , Yes I would buy. I'd ratter my money go to a local small business than a big faceless corporation.

corkoian

My name is URL wrote: »

The milk I buy is directly traceable and exclusive to a local producer, that's the only reason I buy it tbh. If it was sold via a machine and the milk wasn't traceable to any one particular farm then I wouldn't be pushed on it.

Less chance of it being off if only one farm is involved.

Ok ill give a bit of background - Im a farmer looking to be less dependant on the fluctuating milk price. Raw milk is a great product but im sure shops are not aloud stock it (open to correction) so its only aloud be sold from "farm gate or farmers market". Vending machines would be an alternative to this. I would be the only supplier to these machines cause I personally would like to maintain 100% traceability. Heck if it came to it I'd throw my contact details on the machine and tell anyone that wants a tour to just give me a call

Mountainsandh

No

I saw this last time I went to visit my sister in June ! She's near enough to Roanne, didn't see the vending machine anywhere else in France (yet).
I would.

It's not in the seller's interest to have people becoming sick after drinking the milk, so I think maintenance of the machine, and freshness of the product are probably paramount in the operation.

Not sure the market would be the same for it in Ireland though, since "proper", milk tasting milk, is available every where.
I'm French but I have to agree, the French UHT milk tastes like bad water (just being polite here, but I have the Father Ted's UHT milk quote in mind ), and the Fresher milk non UHTed is OK, but not as tasty as Irish milk. So people obviously look for the better stuff.

In Ireland our every day milk is so lovely, we're not as eager to look for "better" imo.

jam_mac_jam

corkoian wrote: »

Ok ill give a bit of background - Im a farmer looking to be less dependant on the fluctuating milk price. Raw milk is a great product but im sure shops are not aloud stock it (open to correction) so its only aloud be sold from "farm gate or farmers market". Vending machines would be an alternative to this. I would be the only supplier to these machines cause I personally would like to maintain 100% traceability. Heck if it came to it I'd throw my contact details on the machine and tell anyone that wants a tour to just give me a call

Not a good idea from a machine, if you put your contact details on the machine its not going to reassure people either. Vending machines are mostly used for processed non fresh food so I don't think this would work.

Scortho

No

senorwipesalot wrote: »

Cant get the image of your Grannys big jugs out of my head.

If 80 year old big jugs are your thing fair fcuks to ya!:D

My name is URL

corkoian wrote: »

Ok ill give a bit of background - Im a farmer looking to be less dependant on the fluctuating milk price. Raw milk is a great product but im sure shops are not aloud stock it (open to correction) so its only aloud be sold from "farm gate or farmers market". Vending machines would be an alternative to this. I would be the only supplier to these machines cause I personally would like to maintain 100% traceability. Heck if it came to it I'd throw my contact details on the machine and tell anyone that wants a tour to just give me a call

I'm not sure it is 'illegal'. You may need to have a special permit in order to supply it to shops etc. There was some talk last year about making the sale of raw milk illegal but I don't think anything ever came of it.

I have no knowledge of how it all works but I'm guessing that at the moment anyway, it'd be easier to get whatever permissions are needed to sell to shops and at farmers markets than to begin selling it from vending machines.

If I'm mistaken and it is illegal then it's odd that I've seen it on sale in a few places. Hell, you can buy raw milk cheeses in all major supermarkets!

af_thefragile

senorwipesalot wrote: »

Cant get the image of your Grannys big jugs out of my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeU6zzn58EI

Boombastic

No

Yep, grew up drinking the stuff, much nicer than the watered down crap

corkoian

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm not sure it is 'illegal'. You may need to have a special permit in order to supply it to shops etc. There was some talk last year about making the sale of raw milk illegal but I don't think anything ever came of it.

I have no knowledge of how it all works but I'm guessing that at the moment anyway, it'd be easier to get whatever permissions are needed to sell to shops and at farmers markets than to begin selling it from vending machines.

If I'm mistaken and it is illegal then it's odd that I've seen it on sale in a few places. Hell, you can buy raw milk cheeses in all major supermarkets!

I have found a website about the ban but not much on it imo. http://www.rawmilkireland.com/

eyeball kid

Not sure about a machine but would have no problem with unpasturised milk. Lovely and creamy so it is.

admiralofthefleet

No

Patri wrote: »

Definitely! For the cream at the top of the milk, you don't see that anymore! Anywhere you can buy it here?

the garage at the start of the railway walk in tinahely in wicklow sell it

ScumLord

af_thefragile wrote: »

Cuz you don't really know how long the milk has been sitting in there.

If you buy it from a farm or a local store that sources it straight from a farm or something you know its fresh n all.

How do you know it's fresh? The farmer could be selling you anything it's not like he's regulated to sell to the general public. At least if it's coming from a company they more than likely go through stringent tests and have further tests of their own. The farmer could be keeping it in an old bucket out the shed that the cats been drinking out of.

Emeraldy Pebbles

I wouldn't personally. The people I know who have had raw milk have almost ALL got brucellosis from it. I asked some of them was it worth it - an emphatic no.

Mountainsandh

No

I wish Ireland would losen up a bit regarding food safety. The Safe Food ads make my blood boil.
I grew up eating Saucisson (cured sausage), our favourite bits as kids were sucking on the skins (mouldy yeasty salty goodness), and mouldy cheeses, and never got sick from these. I don't wait until the juices run clear to eat my meat, and you should see the 90% raw 10% browned on the outside meat my sister feeds her entire family (2 year old baby included).


I'd hazard a guess that gastro enteritis of the epidemic type (passed on from people to people) sends more people to hospital yearly than all the "raw" un-pasteurised foods in France.

It would certainly encourage and support a lot of smaller businesses if the health and safety regulations weren't so restrictive in Ireland. I'd buy the milk, even from the machine !
If I got sick for a day or 2 from it, then I would stop buying the raw milk. Simples.

Madam Marie

corkoian wrote: »

Ok ill give a bit of background - Im a farmer looking to be less dependant on the fluctuating milk price. Raw milk is a great product but im sure shops are not aloud stock it (open to correction) so its only aloud be sold from "farm gate or farmers market". Vending machines would be an alternative to this. I would be the only supplier to these machines cause I personally would like to maintain 100% traceability. Heck if it came to it I'd throw my contact details on the machine and tell anyone that wants a tour to just give me a call

corkoian wrote: »

I have found a website about the ban but not much on it imo. http://www.rawmilkireland.com/

I have seen it for sale at a few farmer's markets.

There is a big demand for raw milk products. I buy a French raw milk butter from Cavistons and I buy raw Goat's cheese from Fallon & Byrne (St Tola).

Have you thought of branching out into food production, might even be grants available for you to get further study. No farmer in Ireland is offering butter made from unpasteurized milk yet, you could be the first and I can assure you, there is a massive market for it.

In Wales you can get the stuff delivered every morning - it just has a different colour cap.

Anyone remember when birds used to peck through the tops of bottles for the cream? I don't think I have seen cream rising to the top of milk in twenty years or more.

Oh and for anyone who says they would never eat any raw milk products, especially when pregnant, all Parmesan cheese is made from unpasteurized milk, which is something that is not too well known.

Stinicker

No

My father is in hix sixties now and said when was a child he would often milk the cow straight into a bottle and take it school with him with sandwiches of homemade bread. Living in rural Ireland back in the late fifties I'm sure it was a common enough thing. I've only drank "real" milk a few times and it is much nicer than that white water that they sell in supermarkets. Not a big milk drinker but if it was possible to buy natural "raw" milk I'd buy it and drink it too!

noxqs

I've seen cows get milked. Theres feces in the milk, I can guarantee you that. After watching that, I will not buy raw milk really, and having tasted both - ie pasteurized non skimmed milk, just pasteurized 'raw' milk vs the raw thing non-pasteurized. I couldn't really tell a difference. I'd buy real raw milk, albeit pasteurized if I could get it.

corkoian

Madam Marie wrote: »

I have seen it for sale at a few farmer's markets.

There is a big demand for raw milk products. I buy a French raw milk butter from Cavistons and I buy raw Goat's cheese from Fallon & Byrne (St Tola).

Have you thought of branching out into food production, might even be grants available for you to get further study. No farmer in Ireland is offering butter made from unpasteurized milk yet, you could be the first and I can assure you, there is a massive market for it.

In Wales you can get the stuff delivered every morning - it just has a different colour cap.

Anyone remember when birds used to peck through the tops of bottles for the cream? I don't think I have seen cream rising to the top of milk in twenty years or more.

Oh and for anyone who says they would never eat any raw milk products, especially when pregnant, all Parmesan cheese is made from unpasteurized milk, which is something that is not too well known.

Thanks, ill look into it. It would also help solve the problem with fluctuating milk yield where i would have more supply than demand!
I have a 80 cow herd and would hope to be self reliant and free from the control of the large co-ops!

Mountainsandh

No

hhhhmmm raw milk butter... imagine the caramels you'd make out of that too

edit : or fudge ? is it fudge ?

admiralofthefleet

No

sure my mother's partner in his mid sixties told me he was fed raw milk from a guinness bottle as a baby because there was no baby's bottles then. he is still here to tell the tale.
its the same with the reduced section in the supermarket (salmoella corner i call it). my wife squirms when i go to it but i buy whatever we need from whats available there. i bought organic cows milk from it last friday that was out of date that day and i only threw the empty carton in the bin yesterday
food safety has gont too serious

Madam Marie

corkoian wrote: »

Thanks, ill look into it. It would also help solve the problem with fluctuating milk yield where i would have more supply than demand!
I have a 80 cow herd and would hope to be self reliant and free from the control of the large co-ops!

I suggest contacting Aidan Harney who runs Ballymore Farm:

http://ballymorefarm.com/

I'm sure he would be glad to offer you any advice and help you need transitioning - best of luck.

Mountainsandh

No

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

food safety has gont too serious

Yes, and paradoxically, I find that when I buy meat over here, it must, it surely must be re-labelled, because it doesn't last the 5 or 6 days it should. :rolleyes:

I love all the Irish cheeses I've tasted, that black one (some name kindalike Gumbeen or something ?), yum, I've tasted some soft ones like camembers too, Irish made, the blue cheeses... they're all gorgeous, OP I wish you luck with it, despite the hurdles in your way, I do think like other posters maybe cheese or butter would be more marketable.

corkoian

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Yes, and paradoxically, I find that when I buy meat over here, it must, it surely must be re-labelled, because it doesn't last the 5 or 6 days it should. :rolleyes:

I love all the Irish cheeses I've tasted, that black one (some name kindalike Gumbeen or something ?), yum, I've tasted some soft ones like camembers too, Irish made, the blue cheeses... they're all gorgeous, OP I wish you luck with it, despite the hurdles in your way, I do think like other posters maybe cheese or butter would be more marketable.

Thanks for the advice. In regard to meat, i supply a local butcher with cattle which are slaughtered locally. Health and safety are trying there best to shut him down no matter what they do

KKkitty

My dad was a lorry driver for years collecting milk from farmers. He often brought home raw milk and it was a lot nicer than pasteurised milk. I'm sure quite a few would turn their noses up at it now though. When raw milk was the only milk available back then it did no harm and my mam and aunt told me some of their kids when they were babies were fed with it before the advent of formulas and they thrived on it. Way too much nonsense these days with what's good for you and what's not. Better to get it straight from the farm in some cases before god knows what's goes into it.

guppy

Lannigan wrote: »

Totally agree, used to drunk it regurally as a kid and well into my late teens. So much tastier and creamier. People are too fussy about food these days. If it was going to kill people we wouldn't be here now as our parents would be dead already!

There are a few people I know who won't use the small drop in one milk carton and mix with a new carton as "I don't like mixing milk from different cows". When they told me this I nearly fell down laughing! They know in reality it's all mixed, but mixing cartons makes it "real".

I used to drink cows milk from my cousins cow, after being strained through a muslin cloth. Was feckin great!

Mind you, I would question the cleanliness of a milk vending machine (how do I know it's sterilised regularly?) and would probably not use one.

The middle inch

It's an interesting topic this. I grew up on raw milk and have a great fondness for it. I have always preferred it to shop milk. Artisan producers have developed some fantastoc food from raw milk. However, there is another side to this debate. The export of irish dairy products is one of our largest earners today. Ireland is one of the largest producers of baby formula from milk in the world. Our butter and cheese can be found on the shelves of supermarkets in the most distant corners of the planet. One of the main foundations of this success is decades of work building consumer confidence in dairy products. While some may say our food production is overregulated, this minimises any food scares. Around the world, scares with beef, pork, chicken and vegetables shows how quickly such consumer confidence evaporates following a crisis and how hard it is to build up that trust again. Our dairy industry is under enough pressure as it is and can well do without a similar scare. The consequences would be crippling on irish dairying. It is on this basis that many stakeholders feel selling raw milk is an exposure we can do without. If a scare developed from a raw milk product, it would be very difficult for that not to impact on the processed dairy sector.

af_thefragile

Well I never really liked milk much but I did drink raw milk when I was a kid. So did my parents.
I don't get how suddenly raw milk has become this toxic, bacteria infested, poisonous chemical which will completely screw your body over while nothing has happened to me or may parents after years of consuming raw milk.

Its sorta funny how people now are all too concerned about making sure their food is all sterile and safe and doesn't have anything harmful in it but then have no problem going on a bender over the weekend and doing serious amounts of damage to some of the most important organs in your body.

Pride Fighter

Voted no myself. Pasteurisation makes milk safe to drink. However, I would like un-homogonised milk so I can get the cream in it.

Capt'n Midnight

guppy wrote: »

There are a few people I know who won't use the small drop in one milk carton and mix with a new carton as "I don't like mixing milk from different cows". When they told me this I nearly fell down laughing!

The reason for not mixing milk at home is the bacteria in milk that's going sour will have a field day in fresh milk and make it go sour too.

Capt'n Midnight

KKkitty wrote: »

When raw milk was the only milk available back then it did no harm

Have you ever met someone with TB ? :mad:

Do you realise just how many TB sanatoriums there were in this country ?

http://www.rte.ie/tv/outbreak/s1_ep2.html

reland of the 1940s was one of the poorest countries in Europe. Four thousand people were dying from tuberculosis every year. A diagnosis of TB was like being handed a death sentence. Many young men and women in Ireland spent long years in the artificial world of the TB sanatorium, and most expected to die there. There was a terrible stigma attached to the disease, which was rarely spoken of directly. The sanatorium was often on the edge of a town, and had an uncomfortable relationship with the townspeople

Lannigan

Lannigan wrote: »

If it was going to kill people we wouldn't be here now as our parents would be dead already!

Yeah but generally the people killed by it and other silliness don't have kids to spout cliches on the internet.

meoklmrk91

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

KKkitty wrote: »

When raw milk was the only milk available back then it did no harm

Have you ever met someone with TB ? :mad:

Do you realise just how many TB sanatoriums there were in this country ?

http://www.rte.ie/tv/outbreak/s1_ep2.html

reland of the 1940s was one of the poorest countries in Europe. Four thousand people were dying from tuberculosis every year. A diagnosis of TB was like being handed a death sentence. Many young men and women in Ireland spent long years in the artificial world of the TB sanatorium, and most expected to die there. There was a terrible stigma attached to the disease, which was rarely spoken of directly. The sanatorium was often on the edge of a town, and had an uncomfortable relationship with the townspeople

TB in cattle is not actually a zoonisis(transmittable from animals to humans) it's a different strain. However Brucellosis is, its highly contagious through unpasturised dairy products and meat, and you'd be a sorry fecker if your got it because you decided you missed the cream on the top of the milk.

Plus do people really trust farmers (particularly old school ones) to live up to health and safety standards, because I don't, like every profession there are imcompetent idiots out there. I know of an old school farmer who refuses to wash his cows udders ever! Which they are supposed to do before milking because he believes that it washes away all the "nutrients". Think about that next time your draining a glass of unpasturised milk.

I do agree that we have gone a bit mad with use by dates etc. but just use common sense, if it's 2 days out of date but smells good and looks good your more than likely grand, I don't look at the use by dates on anything other than meat and I am grand.