Maritime News Thread

Dohvolle

Storm 10 wrote: »

Could they not have diverted one of the three large ocean going Oil Rig/Tug vessels from the Kinsale Gas Platform to tow the Trawler, they are pretty big and well equipped and it would have been no problem to them maybe slow in the conditions but they probably would have saved her they were not very far from the Trawlers position.

If the NS and the RNLI couldn't maintain a tow there was less chance the support vessels working in the Kinsale field were doing it. They are not designed to tow casualty vessels, they tow large floating platforms using pre-attached cables and chains. Think there is one Anchor Cranker there (or due) but it is designed to haul an anchor of a Semi-sub onto its deck, not pass a floating rope to a trawler.
Then you get involved in the whole area of liability. NS, coasties and rnli were able to put a team aboard with pumps to try and stop the ingress of Water. Anchor Cranker crews only do that when their own boat is sinking.
The local salvage Tug must have been otherwised engaged in Bantry Bay.

josip

This photo really brought it home to me how poor the sight lines are on a ship of this size.

Even from the bridge wings there must be a blind spot of 200m in front of the bow?
I assume they have cameras aiding with that?

Dohvolle

josip wrote: »

This photo really brought it home to me how poor the sight lines are on a ship of this size.

Even from the bridge wings there must be a blind spot of 200m in front of the bow?
I assume they have cameras aiding with that?

Not at all. If something is that close you won't be able to do anything but hit it. Set your radar alarm for 5 miles and you might have enough time to react if something gets in front of you. Takes a few miles to bring it to a full stop, and even changing course there is quite a delay between putting the helm over and the ship reacting. When manouvering you usually have a first or second officer with a radio telling the Skipper/pilot what he is dealing with.
(Note to windsurfers/saily types, shouting at the bow of a ship this size will not get the attention of the crew, no matter how loud you shout. Steam will not give way to sail in this situation).

AndyBoBandy

Dohvolle wrote: »

(Note to windsurfers/saily types, shouting at the bow of a ship this size will not get the attention of the crew, no matter how loud you shout. Steam will not give way to sail in this situation).

Certainly not in a channel, shipping lane or TSS, but out in the open ocean, and with AIS, ships of this size are happy to adjust their course by a degree or 2 to avoid getting too close to a yacht sailing... (who does still have the right of way). Its usually always amicable though, with the ships willing to make a small adjustment.

josip

Dohvolle wrote: »

Not at all. If something is that close you won't be able to do anything but hit it. Set your radar alarm for 5 miles and you might have enough time to react if something gets in front of you. Takes a few miles to bring it to a full stop, and even changing course there is quite a delay between putting the helm over and the ship reacting. When manouvering you usually have a first or second officer with a radio telling the Skipper/pilot what he is dealing with.
(Note to windsurfers/saily types, shouting at the bow of a ship this size will not get the attention of the crew, no matter how loud you shout. Steam will not give way to sail in this situation).

Tx. I also found this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a3hLZJZmlI&t=125s
from which I can see that this container ship left a gap in the containers at the prow for better visibility.

Markcheese

Tabnabs wrote: »

A very difficult operation in extremely hazardous conditions. It does however highlight once again how we, as an island nation, cannot offer the correct level of protection to our waters, our coastline and our environment.

The next Irish naval vessel should look like this, so when that little fishing boat becomes a ferry, container ship or nuclear submarine, we have the ability to deal effectively and professionally with the job.

Yup ... It's probably something we should have gone with earlier , less naval looking and more multipurpose ... Honestly think some of the oilrig service vessels are a good starting point ..
They're not fast in good weather but can keep going in very poor conditions , which is usually when they're needed ..

RadioRetro

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Certainly not in a channel, shipping lane or TSS, but out in the open ocean, and with AIS, ships of this size are happy to adjust their course by a degree or 2 to avoid getting too close to a yacht sailing... (who does still have the right of way). Its usually always amicable though, with the ships willing to make a small adjustment.

Feck all yachts have AIS, just the larger ones. Your typical pleasure cruisers don't from what I observe (or not).

AndyBoBandy

RadioRetro wrote: »

Feck all yachts have AIS, just the larger ones. Your typical pleasure cruisers don't from what I observe (or not).

No,

The lads knocking around Dublin Bay won’t have it. I don’t have it. But anyone sailing across an ocean, or sailing solo will have it... even if just a Class B receiver so they can get the alerts that they are going to pass by something too close for comfort...

It’s not that expensive these days.... particularly the Class B receivers.... even some VHF radios have it built in.

CJhaughey

The French have a very nice vessel based in Brest, the Abeille Bourbon.
Long term leased to the French Navy.
Very nice looking vessel and 200t Bollard pull.

Atlantic Dawn

I see Ever Globe went South through the Suez this evening, sister ship of Ever Given, I'd say they had their very best men/women on watch
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:5928921/mmsi:354977000/imo:9786841/vessel:EVER_GLOBE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden-class_container_ship

Jim Gazebo

Dohvolle wrote: »

If the NS and the RNLI couldn't maintain a tow there was less chance the support vessels working in the Kinsale field were doing it. They are not designed to tow casualty vessels, they tow large floating platforms using pre-attached cables and chains. Think there is one Anchor Cranker there (or due) but it is designed to haul an anchor of a Semi-sub onto its deck, not pass a floating rope to a trawler.
Then you get involved in the whole area of liability. NS, coasties and rnli were able to put a team aboard with pumps to try and stop the ingress of Water. Anchor Cranker crews only do that when their own boat is sinking.
The local salvage Tug must have been otherwised engaged in Bantry Bay.

Any of the vessels that can tow out there would have a had a better shot than the navy. Those navy ships are not built for that job, and the crews are not used to that job either. I was surprised the ocean challenger (ex thrax) was not sent out.

It's interesting how the Ellie adhamh went from drifting in relative safety to the weather to taking on water all of a sudden.

Mick Tator

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Any of the vessels that can tow out there would have a had a better shot than the navy. Those navy ships are not built for that job, and the crews are not used to that job either. I was surprised the ocean challenger (ex thrax) was not sent out.

It's interesting how the Ellie adhamh went from drifting in relative safety to the weather to taking on water all of a sudden.

The wind got up and from Saturday it was blowing stink until it eased off earlier today.
As for earlier comments on AIS, in the Kenmare River/Bay there is just one boat (a RIB) with AIS, all others that I have seen are during the summer and invariably visiting yachts. It's not exactly the Channel down here!

Ubbquittious

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Any of the vessels that can tow out there would have a had a better shot than the navy. Those navy ships are not built for that job, and the crews are not used to that job either. I was surprised the ocean challenger (ex thrax) was not sent out.

It's interesting how the Ellie adhamh went from drifting in relative safety to the weather to taking on water all of a sudden.

Ocean challenger was too busy getting that yoke out of the Suez canal

Storm 10

Dohvolle wrote: »

If the NS and the RNLI couldn't maintain a tow there was less chance the support vessels working in the Kinsale field were doing it. They are not designed to tow casualty vessels, they tow large floating platforms using pre-attached cables and chains. Think there is one Anchor Cranker there (or due) but it is designed to haul an anchor of a Semi-sub onto its deck, not pass a floating rope to a trawler.
Then you get involved in the whole area of liability. NS, coasties and rnli were able to put a team aboard with pumps to try and stop the ingress of Water. Anchor Cranker crews only do that when their own boat is sinking.
The local salvage Tug must have been otherwised engaged in Bantry Bay.

Are you telling me that this ship the "Vos Pathfinder" which was stationed at the Kinsale field could not have carried out the tow, she is a big ship and classed for SAR Tug and Rig support vessel, see the details below. Its a pity no one had the cop on to call her in she was close enough to the Trawler. Well done to the Navy and the RNLI in very difficult conditions.

https://www.vroon.nl/Files/VesselParticulars/VOS%20PATHFINDER20170209104438.pdf

https://www.rivieramm.com/news-content-hub/news-content-hub/errvs-versatility-expands-use-beyond-standby-and-rescue-64604

Tabnabs

That would mean the Pathfinder leaving the job she is doing (standby, safety and close support) and the repercussions that would have on the safety of the people on the platform, up to and including possibly having to evacuate them by helicopter until the standby boat is back on station.

If the fishing boat was a danger to the platform, then that's another story.

AndyBoBandy

Yeah, I would have assumed there would be very few reasons a support boat would be allowed to leave it's station supporting an oil/gas rig...

particularly when the weather is pants!!

Tabnabs

josip wrote: »

This photo really brought it home to me how poor the sight lines are on a ship of this size.

Even from the bridge wings there must be a blind spot of 200m in front of the bow?
I assume they have cameras aiding with that?

All very large ships have poor line of sight forward and it's an issue the Bridge Team will factor into their safe navigation of the ship. They will all know the blind sectors ahead, the shadow sectors of the radars and the stopping distances and times of the ship.

They will do everything in their power to stop their ship getting into a "close quarters" situation.

This is also why you see a harbour patrol craft escorting these big container ships in the Solent in England where leisure vessels will try to dart across in front of them.

Storm 10

Tabnabs wrote: »

That would mean the Pathfinder leaving the job she is doing (standby, safety and close support) and the repercussions that would have on the safety of the people on the platform, up to and including possibly having to evacuate them by helicopter until the standby boat is back on station.

If the fishing boat was a danger to the platform, then that's another story.

She was one of three at the platform on the day but she would certainly have done the job, its so sad that the Trawler went down she nearly made it ashore on her own.

Dohvolle

Storm 10 wrote: »

She was one of three at the platform on the day but she would certainly have done the job, its so sad that the Trawler went down she nearly made it ashore on her own.

Those vessels are otherwise engaged and could not be released (literally). They are currently decommissioning the Kinsale, Ballycotton and Seven heads field, the numerous well heads there have to be marked, plugged and covered, and all undersea infrastructure removed or made safe and a Floating rig is due to arrive shortly to deal with that. Meanwhile the vessels working there are preparing the site for her arrival.

Dohvolle

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Any of the vessels that can tow out there would have a had a better shot than the navy. Those navy ships are not built for that job, and the crews are not used to that job either. I was surprised the ocean challenger (ex thrax) was not sent out.

It's interesting how the Ellie adhamh went from drifting in relative safety to the weather to taking on water all of a sudden.

What are you implying? Because by my reading you are saying the RNLI, Coastguard and Naval service caused the vessel to sink, after putting the lives of their crews on the line to put pumps aboard.

Ocean Challenger needs a crew. They don't work 24/7/365. The Naval service are the designated agency in this case. That's what the train for.

Storm 10

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Any of the vessels that can tow out there would have a had a better shot than the navy. Those navy ships are not built for that job, and the crews are not used to that job either. I was surprised the ocean challenger (ex thrax) was not sent out.

It's interesting how the Ellie adhamh went from drifting in relative safety to the weather to taking on water all of a sudden.

Take a look at the Navy towing the Trawler in very difficult conditions

https://www.facebook.com/irishnavalservice/

Tabnabs

Of course there is also the video of the fishing boat coming into contact with the LÉ GEORGE BERNARD SHAW (P64) as they try to manoeuvre to pass the tow line across. But we don't talk about that...

Some ships are for towing and others for patrolling.

Dohvolle

Tabnabs wrote: »

Of course there is also the video of the fishing boat coming into contact with the LÉ GEORGE BERNARD SHAW (P64) as they try to manoeuvre to pass the tow line across. But we don't talk about that...

Some ships are for towing and others for patrolling.

As Stevie Wonder, Elton John and Dionne Warwick once sang...Thats what fenders for.

Tabnabs

Dohvolle wrote: »

As Stevie Wonder, Elton John and Dionne Warwick once sang...Thats what fenders for.

Not in a (reportedly) 6m swell :pac:

Storm 10

Tabnabs wrote: »

Not in a (reportedly) 6m swell :pac:

Where is the video to be seen

ohnonotgmail

Storm 10 wrote: »

Where is the video to be seen

is it not the video on the NS FB page that you linked to? or is that from a different incident?

Widdensushi

Tabnabs wrote: »

Of course there is also the video of the fishing boat coming into contact with the LÉ GEORGE BERNARD SHAW (P64) as they try to manoeuvre to pass the tow line across. But we don't talk about that...

Some ships are for towing and others for patrolling.

Well it is from their own cctv, also the video of them towing, first impressions is that the line is too short

Dohvolle

Widdensushi wrote: »

Well it is from their own cctv, also the video of them towing, first impressions is that the line is too short

You mean to say that the expert on facebook saying the tow was too long was incorrect?
Where is this supposed video?

Storm 10

Widdensushi wrote: »

Well it is from their own cctv, also the video of them towing, first impressions is that the line is too short

How do you know they were not paying out the tow rope in the video either way they can't win. Armchair critics !!!!

Widdensushi

Dohvolle wrote: »

You mean to say that the expert on facebook saying the tow was too long was incorrect?
Where is this supposed video?

Anytime I was towing we try to keep the line in the water, if it comes out it is too severe on both boats and the line, we would slow down or give out more line, the video from gb Shaw cctv and photos of the damage to her are widely being shared, I don't think it is my place to put them on a public forum