Quattro LNB Triax 9x32 Problem

icsmjd

Hi folks

I am new to this so any help is appreciated.

I have a dish with a quattro lnb, this is connected to a triax tmp 9 x 32 multi switch. I connected a quad lnb to the dish and tested all four cables and numbered them. I get full signal and quality from a first strike meter.

I then replaced the quad with a quattro lnb. I have installed the cables as per instruction, HL/HH/VL/VH. Each time i test the ports on the multiswitch i get a different signal/quality. If i plug it into the same port a few minutes apart i get different signal/quality strength. It goes from full signal/quality to half signal/quality. There is no signal displayed on the dreambox.

If i replace the quattro with the quad each of the cables give me full signal/quality and the dreambox works perfect on each of them.

I am using ct100 sat cable with compression joints and each cable tests fine on the quad lnb. The distance from dish to reciever is 5 meters.
I am using a standard sky dish in donegal.

Is it possible that the multi switch is faulty?

Do i need to change the alignment of the dish?

or is it something i have overlooked?

MJD

Ronnie Raygun

I don't think there's a quattro lnb available that's matched to the Sky dish shape. The quattro you're using will more than likely be intended for use on a "round" dish & could be picking up noise from outside the dish edge.

I presume the quad is one intended for a Sky dish?

icsmjd

Yes. It is a standard sky dish. What is the smallest dish i need to get the best use of the quattro for 28.2?

I am limited by height and width.

mjd

Ronnie Raygun

And the quad lnb is one of the Sky branded ones? It's just that this would strengthen the case that the different feed shape of the quattro is causing the problem.

An 80cm dish wouldn't be much wider than a Sky zone 2 dish, but would be taller. You could try smaller, but the weaker tps would suffer, I would think.

What are the other switch inputs intended for? Is there another large dish that could probably accommodate 28 east on a multi-lnb setup?

icsmjd

I will get an 80 cm dish and try it. Will a 80cm dish support 2-3 (13, 19 and 28) quattro lnb's?


mjd

Ronnie Raygun

Such a multi-lnb setup would work fine in most of the country, not sure about up in the northwest.

snaps

Does the quad work with the multiswitch (A lot of quads now work with multiswitches and not just quattro's) How many receivers are you running off the multiswitch?

Why exactly are you using a multiswitch in this setup?

Ronnie Raygun

snaps wrote: »

(A lot of quads now work with multiswitches and not just quattro's)

Some switches will work with quads, by keeping them permanently switched to the required sub-band. Triax switches only work with quattros.

Peter Rhea

icsmjd wrote: »

. . . I have a dish with a quattro lnb, this is connected to a triax tmp 9 x 32 multi switch.

As already posted, a quattro lnb on a Sky dish is a bad idea & if you try to test the switch with the quad, you'll only get 1 of the low band polarisations: whether V or H will depend on the voltage the switch uses to power the lnb (most likely H).

These switches also feature adjustable attenuation on inputs & outputs ( you would probably only need to use this if there was an amplifier in front of the switch), which shouldn't be enough (22 dB possible) to drop the signal below threshold on a 5m cable run, but should be adjusted for best quality.

icsmjd

I have dishes at 13 and 28 and want to have access to both dishes through the existing cable as it is not possible to run more into the house. The multi switch system was recommended to me by an installer. Every output becomes a sat feed

Is it possible to have more than 2 quattro lnbs into a multi switch or is there some type of block that can have 5 quattro's into 1 input on the switch?

mjd

Peter Rhea

So you're feeding 1 house with a 32-out multiswitch? How many room outlets do you need to supply?

snaps

icsmjd wrote: »

I have dishes at 13 and 28 and want to have access to both dishes through the existing cable as it is not possible to run more into the house. The multi switch system was recommended to me by an installer. Every output becomes a sat feed

Is it possible to have more than 2 quattro lnbs into a multi switch or is there some type of block that can have 5 quattro's into 1 input on the switch?

mjd

A simple diseqc 4x1 switch would have done that job no problem unless i missed something? Would have cost around 10€

icsmjd

its 2 semi detached houses(brothers), just linked for the cabling attic to attic, we use the same dishs. We have 8 x tv's with built in sat freeview(16) and would like the 13.2 for the french channels as his wife is french. 4 sky+(8) multiroom boxes (everyone wants their own). The younger kids will want their own sky when they are able to afford it themselves. €15 per month for all channels.

Peter Rhea

The switch you have, to the best of my knowledge, can only ever support 2 satellite positions. The largest single switch I'm aware of is a 17-in (4 sat. positions) & I think the cascadable ones can be linked with DiSEqC switches.

Have you also considered the matter of earth-bonding, with so many pieces of kit connected, across 2 properties?

icsmjd

what are DiSEqC switches and "earth-bonding"?

Peter Rhea

DiSEqC is a switching protocol, established for the purpose of automatically & seamlessly switching receivers between different satellites. Your 9-in switch will have this ability on board, to some extent.

Earth-bonding is to do with electrical regs. & not something I'm going to advise on.

SalteeDog

icsmjd wrote: »

would like the 13.2 for the french channels as his wife is french.

Forgive me going off topic but I wouldn't normally consider 13E for French channels although there's a few free ones there and a good selection if you subscribe to BIS or Orange. You'll get a better selection of free channels on 5W or 19.2E though - and you'll certainly want to go with one of those if you have a Fransat 5W or TNTSAT (19.2E) receiver and card (subscription free).


Also, previous thread on earth bonding here.

icsmjd

Thanks for the information regarding 19.2, i am new to this and getting to know the various sats.

icsmjd

Ok

I have 80cm dish installed and have tested the various ports, the settings on the meter are as follows,

L: 28.2E
F: 10714
SR: 22000
LO: 09750
LNB: 18
22KHz: off

The cable results are as follows:

VH Sig: 78%
S 33.4 dBm
Q: 19%
SN: 2.5dB


VL Sig: 78%
S 31.3 dBm
Q: 0%
SN: 0.0 dB


HL Sig: 78%
S 27.0 dBm
Q: 97%
SN: 14.3 dB


HH Sig: 78%
S 30.6 dBm
Q: 0%
SN: 0.0 dB

On a quad lnb i can pick sky up no problem with these settings. When i put the quattro lnb on and attach it to the multi switch i get nothing. any ideas as i have spent the last 2 days adjusting a dish and getting nowhere fast. The HL is the only one that i get a signal lock.

mjd

Peter Rhea

icsmjd wrote: »

The HL is the only one that i get a signal lock.

Wouldn't that be because 10714H is a low band, horizontal pol. transponder?

Do you actually know what the difference is between a quad & quattro lnb?

snaps

you need to programme the 3 other bands into the first strike meter. I done that and made my own custom list of all satellites from 30w to 42 east. You should also be getting much stronger SN Db value, im getting well over 18db from an 80cm dish here in the west.

I still dont fully understand why you are using a multi switch. A multi switch is really meant for supplying multiple receivers from one dish. Like I said earlier a simple Diseqc switch will switch between satellite positions a lot easier.

Ive 3 receivers in the house feeding off a 1.1m dish. Ive LNBS for 28, 23.5, 19, 16, 13, 10/9east. All quads apart from the 16 & 10/9east LNBs which is just a single feed to the living room Diseqc switch. Ive an 8x1 diseqc switch from living room, and 2 4x1 diseqc switches to kitchen and bedroom. Ive also a combo box connected directly to the forth output on the 28 east quad.

Peter Rhea

icsmjd wrote: »

When i put the quattro lnb on and attach it to the multi switch i get nothing.

I presume you're not doing something daft like failing to connect the multiswitch to a power supply?

The TMP is a mains, as opposed to receiver powered switch.

Ronnie Raygun

snaps wrote: »

I still dont fully understand why you are using a multi switch. A multi switch is really meant for supplying multiple receivers from one dish.

Like the OP says he wants to do here?

icsmjd wrote: »

its 2 semi detached houses(brothers), just linked for the cabling attic to attic, we use the same dishs. We have 8 x tv's with built in sat freeview(16) and would like the 13.2 for the french channels as his wife is french. 4 sky+(8) multiroom boxes (everyone wants their own). The younger kids will want their own sky when they are able to afford it themselves.

snaps

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Like the OP says he wants to do here?

it must be late in the night, seems a bit complicated even for me. The first strike meter needs to be set up with 4*28.2 satellite frequency's, 1 preset for VL, 1 for VH, 1 for HL and one for HH. Thats what i have in my meter at the 1st 4 presets. i cant give you the settings as meter is not here with me, but easy enough to do with help from lyngsat.com (for random transponder freq in the different bands)

This site may help you out (I goggled) http://channelpedia.yavdr.com/gen/DVB-S/S28.2E/LNBSetupHelperTable.html

I think they may have their high and low band transponders mixed up though, but it will give you some indication.

Ronnie Raygun

Why did you quote my post there?

Peter Rhea

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Do you actually know what the difference is between a quad & quattro lnb?

OP, it's worth taking a look at this article on satellite distribution.

It explains why the band & polarity switching is necessary & how these functions can be carried out within the lnb itself (up to eight outputs) or in the multiswitch (can be extended to a massive system).

You can find parts 2 & 3 here, if you want to read on (earth bonding is mentioned in part 2).

iba

snaps wrote: »

you need to programme the 3 other bands into the first strike meter. I done that and made my own custom list of all satellites from 30w to 42 east. You should also be getting much stronger SN Db value, im getting well over 18db from an 80cm dish here in the west.

I still dont fully understand why you are using a multi switch. A multi switch is really meant for supplying multiple receivers from one dish. Like I said earlier a simple Diseqc switch will switch between satellite positions a lot easier.

Ive 3 receivers in the house feeding off a 1.1m dish. Ive LNBS for 28, 23.5, 19, 16, 13, 10/9east. All quads apart from the 16 & 10/9east LNBs which is just a single feed to the living room Diseqc switch. Ive an 8x1 diseqc switch from living room, and 2 4x1 diseqc switches to kitchen and bedroom. Ive also a combo box connected directly to the forth output on the 28 east quad.

Lovely drawing Snaps - how do you do it?

icsmjd

What direction is the dish pointing to get all of those?

mjd

Peter Rhea

If the signals from your wanted satellites are of roughly similar strength, you can align the dish somewhere 'in the middle', or you might want to favour some over others if they become a bit marginal, or you might want a weak satellite & you'd have to centre your dish there, or . . . it will vary for each individual setup.

snaps

iba wrote: »

Lovely drawing Snaps - how do you do it?

think I used PowerPoint using googled images!

snaps

icsmjd wrote: »

What direction is the dish pointing to get all of those?

mjd

aligned on 16east

icsmjd

I have tried to do as you suggested by looking at the website you sent. do these look ok to you?

mjd

NO.Longitude W/E Name Freq H/V 22K SR LO
1 28.2E Sky Astra 10729 V OFF 22000 9750
2 28.2E Sky Astra 11778 V ON 27500 10600
3 28.2E Sky Astra 10714 H OFF 22000 9750
4 28.2E Sky Astra 11836 H ON 27500 10600

5 19.2E S 19.2 10758 V OFF 22000 9750
6 19.2E S 19.2 11739 V ON 27500 10600
7 19.2E S 19.2 10743 H OFF 22000 9750
8 19.2E S 19.2 12226 H ON 27500 10600

9 13E Hotbird 13.0 A B C 11958 V OFF 27500 9750
10 13E Hotbird 13.0 A B C 10719 V ON 2750010600
11 13E Hotbird 13.0 A B C 11900 H OFF29900 9750
12 13E Hotbird 13.0 A B C 10792 H ON 27500 10600

zg3409

Hi I have just been reading this thread.

The multiswitch you have can do two satellite positions to all receiver and also has terrestrial feed to all receivers. The most I have seen as said is 4 satellite positions and terrestrial but these are very expensive.

You would need to look at earthing. This is VERY important especially as the system is connected to two houses. A fault at one house could cause the other house to CATCH FIRE, hence the regulations. As an installer that has done earthing for apartment wide systems.

Beware the multiswitch is basically splitting the signal over`16 different ways so it is VITAL the dish is large and aligned perfectly.

You need to check the signal BEFORE the multiswitch on firstly a quad then a quattro. You need to make sure each lead of the quattro is giving a good signal. After the multiwsitch it is hard to measure the signal properly as the multiswitch has a booster inside. Depending on the model and what is inside it may always give high signal readings even if nothing is connected.

If you have long runs of Satellite cable you need the best quality cable. It needs to have a solid copper core, solid copper screen and solid copper foil. Anything else will not work well.

As suggested some multiswitches have variable gain and you can vary the output signal at each outlet to compensate for long or short runs.

Ideally you would set every receiver up to get an ideal level, not too much, not too little. Otherwise some channels may not work reliably.

snaps

icsmjd wrote: »

I have tried to do as you suggested by looking at the website you sent. do these look ok to you?

mjd

NO.Longitude W/E Name Freq H/V 22K SR LO
1 28.2E Sky Astra 10729 V OFF 22000 9750
2 28.2E Sky Astra 11778 V ON 27500 10600
3 28.2E Sky Astra 10714 H OFF 22000 9750
4 28.2E Sky Astra 11836 H ON 27500 10600

5 19.2E S 19.2 10758 V OFF 22000 9750
6 19.2E S 19.2 11739 V ON 27500 10600
7 19.2E S 19.2 10743 H OFF 22000 9750
8 19.2E S 19.2 12226 H ON 27500 10600

9 13E Hotbird 13.0 A B C 11958 V OFF 27500 9750
10 13E Hotbird 13.0 A B C 10719 V ON 2750010600
11 13E Hotbird 13.0 A B C 11900 H OFF29900 9750
12 13E Hotbird 13.0 A B C 10792 H ON 27500 10600

it does look right yes. I can't check for sure at moment though.

Ronnie Raygun

If you're checking 28 east, include some of the Eutelsat 28A tps as well, since it is at the 28.5 slot, whereas the Astras are at 28.2 & you might have to compromise a bit on alignment.

Full list of 28 east here. Afaia, all receivers switch the lnb to its 10600 mHz L.O. (high band) for tp frequencies above 11700 mHz.

icsmjd

Ok

Just found out that the lnb was in position 1 for region 1. As we are in region 2 i adjusted it and hey presto, i have signal quality on all bands

VL VH HL HH
L 28.8E 28.8E 28.8E 28.8E
F 10729 11778 10714 11836
SR 22000 27500 22000 27500
LO 9750 10600 9750 10600
LNB 13 13 18 18
22kHz OFF ON OFF ON
Q 100 94 100 95
S: 78.6 77.2 81.4 82.2
S/N: 17.1 14.1 17.5 14.5
B 1.00E-05 1.00E-05 1.00E-05 1.00E-05

I still have no picture on the outputs of the TMP 9x32.
i have noticed some gain adjustments on the switch.
VL VH HL HH gain on each side.

Should i adjust any of these or will it cause damage?
mjd

Ronnie Raygun

Afaia, only Sky lnbs have skew marks 1, 2, 3 etc. Are you connecting a Sky quad to the multiswitch?

Someone else asked this already (& I don't mean to insult your intelligence), but is the switch plugged in?

zg3409

Make sure the 28.2 dish is connected to Sat 1 input on the multiswitch and not Sat2
as per the data sheet:
http://www.dastechnology.co.uk/docs/DAS1429_Triax_TMP_9_x_32.pdf

It should work without adjusting the gain. When working it might be worth adjusting them, but first mark them with tip-ex so you can return to defaults.

icsmjd

Yep the switch is powered on, the quattro doesnt have a marking but i turned it the same as the sky dish(approx). It made a difference but i'm not sure why.

icsmjd

hehehehehehehe

how simple it is when ya know what to do. The inputs were in SAT2. I just moved them to SAT1 and Eureka, it works, it works, it works.

Many thanks to everyone for the help, i could'nt have done it without all of you. Now i just have to get the 13 up and going.


The electricial ppl are looking at the earthing issue later today and there is a bar on the switch to connect to.

would it be possibe to connect a 17 x 5 to this switch so that i could have 4 quattro lnbs to this system to give all sats to each output. If so can it be added close to the dish (power there already) and just use the existing 4 cables to the inputs on the 9x 32.

AAAAANNNNNDDDD what lnb rail would i use and do i need to get a bigger dish for Donegal?

oh yeah, i changed the quattro to a sky standard dish and it is working fine. Wifey made me remove the big dish as it was considered an eyesore, huummmm

mjd

Peter Rhea

icsmjd wrote: »

. . . how simple it is when ya know what to do. The inputs were in SAT2. I just moved them to SAT1 and Eureka, it works, it works, it works.

Good to see it's working now, should have asked earlier which set of inputs you were using.

zg3409

icsmjd wrote: »

would it be possibe to connect a 17 x 5 to this switch so that i could have 4 quattro lnbs to this system to give all sats to each output. If so can it be added close to the dish (power there already) and just use the existing 4 cables to the inputs on the 9x 32.

No. You should learn what the multiswitch does and how it works or you will confuse yourself as the system gets larger.

By the way earthing is more than just earthing the multiswitch:

Scroll down here:
http://www.aberfanaerials.co.uk/commercial.htm

and here:
http://www.digitalsmart.co.uk/small-irs-system-image-29.html

If a multiswitch is feeding separate dwellings, which may be on different mains power supply phases, it is essential to get a qualified electrician to "earth-bond" the multiswitch. He will understand what this means and will know how to do it. Please consult him first, to ensure that the multiswitch is installed reasonably close to a suitable earthing point.

From:
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/multiswitches.htm

zg3409

icsmjd wrote: »

i changed the quattro to a sky standard dish and it is working fine. Wifey made me remove the big dish as it was considered an eyesore, huummmm

Warning this is not recommended. It will work less well than a normal Sky dish. Normally for such a system a larger than normal dish is recommended, especially when you have cables running from one house to another house.

Why not put the dish on the brother's house. It doesn't matter what his wife says to you!

icsmjd

The longest run is 35meters and in nice weather here at the moment it is fine. when the rain starts and strictly/ xfactor and sky stops working i shall remind her of her choice regarding the dish. I would rather fall out with my wife that the bros. silence is bliss and i would have to listen to him as well as her

i do have an area when i can put the dish. its a little further away from the main house hence the question regarding the 17 x 5. I can put as many lnbs on it as i want

icsmjd

OK

Just setup the 19.2, these are the readings i am getting from each channel

No SW VL VH HL HH
L 19.2E 19.2E 19.2E 19.2E
F 10758 11739 10743 12226
SR 22000 27500 22000 27500
LO 9750 10600 9750 10600
LNB 13 13 18 18
22kHz OFF ON OFF ON
Q 100 98 100 100
S: 75 77.2 78.6 76.4
S/N: 15.3 14.2 14.6 15.6
B 1.00E-05 1.00E-05 1.00E-05 1.00E-05


When i plug each of the channels into the switch the readings change for VH and HH

SW VL VH HL HH
L 19.2E 19.2E 19.2E 19.2E
F 10758 11739 10743 12226
SR 22000 27500 22000 27500
LO 9750 10600 9750 10600
LNB 13 13 18 18
22kHz OFF ON OFF ON
Q 100 35 100 34
S: 81.4 80.7 84.8 85.5
S/N: 16.2 5.7 17.5 5.4
B 1.00E-05 3.00E-06 1.00E-05 1.00E-05


The quality and S/N fall away. I have checked and rechecked the cables and where i am connecting. It makes no sense.

This is the SAT 2 on the 9x32. SAT1 is 28.2 and is working fine on all channels

has anyone seen this before?

mjd

Peter Rhea

How do you know the switch is outputting sat.2? Those tp freqs. are also used at 28 east. The ones with the poor quality figure are DVB-S2 tps.

icsmjd

hmmmm, I don't. is there anything that i need to do to enable SAT2 output on the switch. all the signals are fine on each cable. is there a switch?

mjd

Peter Rhea

The multiswitch will use DiSEqC commands for switching between sat. positions. I don't know if your meter can perform this function or if you'll have to connect to a receiver.

icsmjd

Ok have tried on the reciever, no picture and no signal strenght

mjd

Apogee

Have you setup Diseqc switching in the receiver? Port 1 or A for 28E and Port 2 or B for 19E.

icsmjd

Again, my lack of knowledge is evident. The meter is not capable of switching and the receiver i am using is set for a motorised dish. The samsung tv with the built in sat receiver has picked up both sats no problem.

It has however not picked up any of the french language stations, i have searched for all stations on 19.2 and no french stations have come up. The english ones are fine. Am i missing something again?

mjd