Garda safety campaign for Dublin

Bunnyhopper

ThisRegard wrote: »

The one with the bus is just ridiculous

If cycling through the bus stop like that is considered so dangerous, why do so many official cyclepaths take precisely that route? I've always considered it a particularly stupid and dangerous design.

ThisRegard

The ones I know like that have the bike lane go the other side of the shelter, not between the bus and shelter. Still bad design.
But the guy didn't even slow when he came alongside the bus or when popping onto the road.

opti0nal

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

If cycling through the bus stop like that is considered so dangerous, why do so many official cyclepaths take precisely that route? I've always considered it a particularly stupid and dangerous design.

The city council might be aware of this problem. Some years ago, they took down the signs for the on-footpath one approaching the Five Lamps inbound which included a bus shelter on its trajectory, but confusingly did not remove the surface markings.

A similar effort between Artane and Donneycarney inbound, a fast downhill routed straight through waiting passengers disappeared after a couple years of sustained derision from experienced cyclists.

These were both of the original cycle tracks that formed part of the mythical "Dublin Strategic Cycle Network" of the late 1990's.

buffalo

ThisRegard wrote: »

The ones I know like that have the bike lane go the other side of the shelter, not between the bus and shelter. Still bad design.
But the guy didn't even slow when he came alongside the bus or when popping onto the road.

I'm almost certain I've seen ones that go between shelter and road, with a yield sign for the cyclists.

Wishbone Ash

ThisRegard wrote: »

The ones I know like that have the bike lane go the other side of the shelter, not between the bus and shelter

The bus stop just north of the entrance to the Crowne Plaza Hotel on the R132 in Santry has the cycle lane in front of the bus stop.

monument

ThisRegard wrote: »

The ones I know like that have the bike lane go the other side of the shelter, not between the bus and shelter. Still bad design.
But the guy didn't even slow when he came alongside the bus or when popping onto the road.

There's a ton of "footpath" cycle lanes in Dublin which put cyclists on footpath level between bus shelters and the kerb. There's also few designs of this type in the NTA cycle manual.

But none of that accounts for hopping on front of a moving bus.

monument

ThisRegard wrote: »

The ones I know like that have the bike lane go the other side of the shelter, not between the bus and shelter. Still bad design.
But the guy didn't even slow when he came alongside the bus or when popping onto the road.

There's a ton of "footpath" cycle lanes in Dublin which put cyclists on footpath level between bus shelters and the kerb. There's also few designs of this type in the NTA cycle manual.

But none of that accounts for hopping on front of a moving bus.

le petit braquet

That's on Merrion Road just after the junction with Shrewsbury Road. There is no on-path cycle lane there just a bus lane. It looks like the guy was coming up behind two stopping buses and decided to "undertake" them by hopping on to the path at Shrewsbury Road and ploughing on regardless. Idiot! There is normally a Garda on duty at the British embassy about 50 metres further on but maybe he saw nothing.

_sparkie_

i have not read all the post in here so excuse me if what im about to ask has been covered. was anyone listening to the traffic corps guy yesterday on matt cooper? he said that the guards would be distributing 7,000 free front and back lights, i asked in a station about it today and they said they had never heard anything about it. they then rang the traffic corps who had also never heard of it, did he actually say this on matt cooper or am i going mental?

hardCopy

buffalo wrote: »

ThisRegard wrote: »

The ones I know like that have the bike lane go the other side of the shelter, not between the bus and shelter. Still bad design.
But the guy didn't even slow when he came alongside the bus or when popping onto the road.

I'm almost certain I've seen ones that go between shelter and road, with a yield sign for the cyclists.

There are three bus stops in a row on the Ballycoolin Road with a cycle track running through the textured kerbing. Yield triangle painted on the ground for bikes.

Jawgap

_sparkie_ wrote: »

i have not read all the post in here so excuse me if what im about to ask has been covered. was anyone listening to the traffic corps guy yesterday on matt cooper? he said that the guards would be distributing 7,000 free front and back lights, i asked in a station about it today and they said they had never heard anything about it. they then rang the traffic corps who had also never heard of it, did he actually say this on matt cooper or am i going mental?

You didn't imagine it - but it's the NTA giving them out....

"The National Transport Authority is to give out up to 75oo sets of lights to cyclists at major events and popular cycling areas in order to increase their visibility as part of the casualty reduction plan."

Personally, I prefer when they give it out the hi-viz vests we use them as bibs in rugby training

ThisRegard

Ah, I wasn't saying it doesn't happen, just that the ones I come across on my regular route go behind the shelter so someone tries to use a bit of sense occasionally.

hardCopy wrote: »

There are three bus stops in a row on the Ballycoolin Road with a cycle track running through the textured kerbing. Yield triangle painted on the ground for bikes.

That's the road I was basing my 'experience' (which is obviously well against the grain) on. Maybe it's because I don't really use cycle lanes ?

The only one I notice is the one at the every end at the apartments at Waterville, the cycle lane goes behind that one as I use the cycle lane there to cut out the roundabout. I never noticed how it works around the others as I stay on road/bus lane. Are there more shelters on that road ?

I know in my estate the lane goes right through every bus stop, but there's no shelters so it's not as big an issue in that people, both waiting for the bus, and cyclists, aren't hidden from each other.

Hmmzis

I might be a bit biased here since I got hit yesterday, but from that experience I would say that driver education should include more stuff about other road users (pedestrians, cyclists, motorbikers etc.).

Even with all the hi-viz on me (Altura glaringly yellow jacket, reflective stripes on overshoes, reflective stripes on shorts, same on gloves, reflective hi-viz backpack cover) and the two sets of lights blinking away on the front (Smart Lunar 35Lux and an eBay light from China, both are very bright and visible from quite a distance) after the collision the driver still claimed that she didn't see me :eek:

I think it's if you're not trained to look for something that doesn't pose an immediate threat the brain will just not register the object (cyclist, motorbike, pedestrian). Well, the other option is that she completely misjudged my speed, maybe took me for a stationary object or something along those lines. I really can't think of any more ways of how to make myself more visible on the bike. Dunno, havin' frickn' laser beams shootin' out of the helmet?

Jawgap

Hmmzis wrote: »

I might be a bit biased here since I got hit yesterday, but from that experience I would say that driver education should include more stuff about other road users (pedestrians, cyclists, motorbikers etc.)......

Anyone of a certain vintage might remember the British campaign "think once, think twice, think bike" - maybe it's time to resurrect it here with the focus on motorcyclists and pedal cyclists - it's better than those sh1te ads the RSA are currently running.

Subjectively speaking, I thought it worked very well - I always check for bikes!

Lumen

Hmmzis wrote: »

I might be a bit biased here since I got hit yesterday, but from that experience I would say that driver education should include more stuff about other road users (pedestrians, cyclists, motorbikers etc.).

Even with all the hi-viz on me (Altura glaringly yellow jacket, reflective stripes on overshoes, reflective stripes on shorts, same on gloves, reflective hi-viz backpack cover) and the two sets of lights blinking away on the front (Smart Lunar 35Lux and an eBay light from China, both are very bright and visible from quite a distance) after the collision the driver still claimed that she didn't see me :eek:

I think it's if you're not trained to look for something that doesn't pose an immediate threat the brain will just not register the object (cyclist, motorbike, pedestrian). Well, the other option is that she completely misjudged my speed, maybe took me for a stationary object or something along those lines. I really can't think of any more ways of how to make myself more visible on the bike. Dunno, havin' frickn' laser beams shootin' out of the helmet?

I don't know the circumstances of your accident, but it doesn't matter what you wear or how many lights you carry if you're not in someone's line of sight.

I also think that we should be realistic about the potential of TV education campaigns targetted at anyone over primary school age, particularly in an age where the media is so fragmented. I don't watch Irish TV at all, so it wouldn't matter what RSA broadcast, I wouldn't see it.

Surveyor11

Lumen wrote: »

I don't know the circumstances of your accident, but it doesn't matter what you wear or how many lights you carry if you're not in someone's line of sight.

Agreed, if you're in someone's blind spot, being lit up like a christmas tree is going to make no difference. I find though that a lot of drivers will still pull out when you're coming face on, directly into their line of sight, even when you've got flashing strobes / powerful front lights. There definitely seems to be 'ah sure, it's only a fella on a bike' attitude out there.

Lumen

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Agreed, if you're in someone's blind spot, being lit up like a christmas tree is going to make no difference. I find though that a lot of drivers will still pull out when you're coming face on, directly into their line of sight, even when you've got flashing strobes / powerful front lights. There definitely seems to be 'ah sure, it's only a fella on a bike' attitude out there.

Flashing lights are worse than steady ones because they make it more difficult to judge distance.

In winter I use a bright (but not blinding) steady light and a relatively weak flasher. I can't recall a car pulling out across me in tens of thousands of km of commuting, including a particuarly nasty set of junctions around Roselawn shopping centre (you're in D15, right?).

I did one get clipped by a driver doing a u-turn outside a hospital, but I think he was a bit distracted/distressed at the time. Hospitals are hazardous :pac:

Jawgap

Lumen wrote: »

........Public Hospitals are hazardous :pac:

FYP

I always assume I've not been seen unless I make good eye contact with the driver, and even then I still half-expect them to mis-judge my speed and pull out / in, go for a gap etc

Hmmzis

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Agreed, if you're in someone's blind spot, being lit up like a christmas tree is going to make no difference. I find though that a lot of drivers will still pull out when you're coming face on, directly into their line of sight, even when you've got flashing strobes / powerful front lights. There definitely seems to be 'ah sure, it's only a fella on a bike' attitude out there.

I'm fairly sure I was in her line of sight since I was right in front of her and I had no trouble seeing her coming towards me from my right (she was turning right into a side street). It was like I didn't even register with her even though I was in direct sight with all the christmastree stuff on me.

Another thing that could be of relevance is that not all road users might know that bus lanes can be used by cyclists and I was coming out of a bus lane (it sort of ends at that intersection and then it's just a cycle lane afterwards). If you're only looking for buses then you'll only see buses or something along those lines.

Surveyor11

Lumen wrote: »

In winter I use a bright (but not blinding) steady light and a relatively weak flasher. I can't recall a car pulling out across me in tens of thousands of km of commuting, including a particuarly nasty set of junctions around Roselawn shopping centre (you're in D15, right?).

In the winter (or dark summer evenings!) I use a cateye strobe for around town, also have a maglite that chucks out about 150 lm up front. Now using a B7 led lenser - 200 lumen on max, but also has a lower setting (maybe 100 lumen or so) - So I'm pretty bright up front. I always thought the brighter light might cancel out the strobe, in terms of visual impact? The point is well made about the strobe alone and judging distances - maybe the combination of this and approaching at 30-odd km/hr on a bike (which most car drivers will not be expecting) may be an issue.

Ironically, the most incidences I've had with cars pulling out in from of me is just as I get home at this junction http://goo.gl/maps/sIERo. Happens maybe a few times a month.

cdaly_

Hmmzis wrote: »

I'm fairly sure I was in her line of sight since I was right in front of her and I had no trouble seeing her coming towards me from my right (she was turning right into a side street). It was like I didn't even register with her even though I was in direct sight with all the christmas tree stuff on me.

When you're turning right in a car across stopped traffic, cycle lanes cease to exist. The driver sees the stopped line of cars with a gap they can get through and stops looking. Sure there's no room for another car beside them so they're clear to go...

manwithaplan

cdaly_ wrote: »

When you're turning right in a car across stopped traffic, cycle lanes cease to exist. The driver sees the stopped line of cars with a gap they can get through and stops looking. Sure there's no room for another car beside them so they're clear to go...

While it doesn't sound like this was the case with Hmmzis accident (he said there was a clear line of sight), gaps in lines of traffic on my side of the road always put me on alert. They don't even have to be at junctions - sometimes they are just left to allow someone pull into a driveway. Drivers coming through those gaps rarely think to take a second check for bikes etc as they come through. As a driver, I try to be careful about leaving those gaps or signalling to drivers to come through them. You want to enable traffic move freely on the other side of the road but you need to be very sure that there's nothing coming up your inside.

SerialComplaint

Jawgap wrote: »

Lumen wrote: »

Public Hospitals are hazardous :pac:

FYP

Private ones ain't so great either;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81040243&postcount=694

Jawgap

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Private ones ain't so great either;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81040243&postcount=694

Obviously somone from the public hospital did it:)

Haven't noticed much of this blitz yet - maybe they're winding up for Road Safety Week next week?

hardCopy

Jawgap wrote: »

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Private ones ain't so great either;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81040243&postcount=694

Obviously somone from the public hospital did it:)

Haven't noticed much of this blitz yet - maybe they're winding up for Road Safety Week next week?

Gardaí and RSA out with the speed gun on Snugborough Road this lunchtime, parked across the path and bike lane, good work lads.

ThisRegard

And that's a real handy spot for catching people. A long wide road with a limit of what, 60?
Where exactly were they?

hardCopy

Between the NAC and the Ballycoolin Roundabout

Keep_Her_Lit

hardCopy wrote: »

Gardaí and RSA out with the speed gun on Snugborough Road this lunchtime

So, did you get pulled? What was your score?

Keep_Her_Lit

Lumen wrote: »

Flashing lights are worse than steady ones because they make it more difficult to judge distance.

An aternative theory is that a flashing light confirms to drivers that you're "only" a cyclist and so it's obviously OK to pull across your path.

In winter I use a bright (but not blinding) steady light and a relatively weak flasher. I can't recall a car pulling out across me in tens of thousands of km of commuting, including a particuarly nasty set of junctions around Roselawn shopping centre (you're in D15, right?)..

I use a similar set up and have found that fewer drivers pull across my path in darkness than in daylight. A sufficiently bright steady light hides the outline of the rider/bike behind it. If you're moving at a reasonable speed, it becomes more difficult for the driver to tell whether you're riding a bicycle, moped or motorcycle and so they are forced into a more conservative mode of risk taking.

I did one get clipped by a driver doing a u-turn outside a hospital, but I think he was a bit distracted/distressed at the time. Hospitals are hazardous :pac:

Agreed. A couple of months ago, an old dear driving towards me turned casually into my path to get to the entrance to the Beacon Hospital in Sandyford. Neither of us was travelling fast, so there was plenty of time to take evasive action. I waved, grimaced and expressed general exasperation, all to no avail. Maybe she was being paid to drum up business for the hospital. Or, as you suggest, maybe her thoughts were elsewhere.

Surveyor11

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

If you're moving at a reasonable speed, it becomes more difficult for the driver to tell whether you're riding a bicycle, moped or motorcycle and so they are forced into a more conservative mode of risk taking.

Interesting experience this evening coming home, left my 200 lumen light on. At Coolmine Roundabout, a car coming from my left literally stopped in his tracks - the look on his face was priceless....rabbit in the headlights moment...