22000 clearance trials across border

dowlingm

Bing has good overhead imagery. The train could not cross to the other platform while on the southern approach. The northern switch is quite a way from the platform. Since both trains terminate, could both trains not run wrong road and then switch tracks on the way out?

flazio

dowlingm wrote: »

Bing has good overhead imagery. The train could not cross to the other platform while on the southern approach. The northern switch is quite a way from the platform. Since both trains terminate, could both trains not run wrong road and then switch tracks on the way out?

Not sure if its a rights issue, but I can't see anything on the bing map.
Google maps is ok though.

Losty Dublin

dowlingm wrote: »

Bing has good overhead imagery. The train could not cross to the other platform while on the southern approach. The northern switch is quite a way from the platform. Since both trains terminate, could both trains not run wrong road and then switch tracks on the way out?

Wrong way working is only there in case of emergency; a failed train or blockage on the line or that. You also block up both up and down sections in and out of Newry; this may impede train movements running afterwards. This is assuming that wrong way signaling is fitted in and around the Newry area.

There isn't any gain in running a 22000 over a 29000 given the limited speed limit that has been set cross border; Shamwari also mentioned the capacity benefits of a 29 over a 22 for what is a suburban run that's been gerrymandered.

dowlingm

Losty - do those speed restrictions apply to Enterprise? I was positing a consist based of 2 x 22001-06 sets running at Enterprise speeds.

Trying another Bing link zoomed in further.

shamwari

Losty Dublin wrote: »

This is assuming that wrong way signaling is fitted in and around the Newry area.

It is on approaches to Newry station, presumably for run-around and switch around a set for return.

ard_mhacha

dowlingm wrote: »

Losty - do those speed restrictions apply to Enterprise? I was positing a consist based of 2 x 22001-06 sets running at Enterprise speeds.

Trying another Bing link zoomed in further.

No. They have the required equipment to run on Translink at line speed.

Losty Dublin

shamwari wrote: »

It is on approaches to Newry station, presumably for run-around and switch around a set for return.

That is the case, good man; I should have stressed it better that it's for station confines to allow shunting, turning or the very occasional wrong platform stops if required

Road12

despite the 22s being passed for the north i see playfair has the 29s down for working to belfast 2nite on the 4 50 off dub!

http://chrisplayfair.smugmug.com/Travel/2012-Photos/October-2012/25810704_R7QTHS#!i=2167318295&k=qvF37Db

Jamie2k9

despite the 22s being passed for the north i see playfair has the 29s down for working to belfast 2nite on the 4 50 off dub!

http://chrisplayfair.smugmug.com/Tra...8295&k=qvF37Db

Are 22 that don't have the correct equipment allowed into NI and would say finding a 6 car set in Connolly doing nothing in the evening isn't easy to do.

Jamie2k9

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Are 22 that don't have the correct equipment allowed into NI and would say finding a 6 car set in Connolly doing nothing in the evening isn't easy to do.

They would be allowed but at a restricted speed, I'm sure.

Jamie2k9

They would be allowed but at a restricted speed, I'm sure.

Then would imagine it was set availablity at rush hour and possibly if the train was being operated by NI drivers they may all not be trained for 22 yet.

dowlingm

If more than 3 x 6 car consists are required to ensure availability then IE should fit more sets out rather than faffing around with reduced speed service which undermines perception of rail as competitive with road.

Road12 - there have been trials but surely there will have to be several training runs before 22s will be seen in service?

Road12

Not necessarily. Once a train is gauged for a route (in which case the 22s have) they can operate after that on any service should this be planned or a substitute for the Enterprise. No need for countless trips wasting fuel.

goingnowhere

Its gauged but that doesn't mean the TPWS/AWS and NIR train radio have been commissioned and tested.

Just because it didn't hit anything doesn't mean its fits

Losty Dublin

Road12 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Once a train is gauged for a route (in which case the 22s have) they can operate after that on any service should this be planned or a substitute for the Enterprise. No need for countless trips wasting fuel.

That is not the case. Any mainline train operating in the UK legally requires TPWS kits to be fitted and passed before it is allowed to be trialed, passed fiit for for traffic and allowed to operate in service. . In a few circumstances trains may operate without TPWS but these relate to emergency circumstances, trials and under restrictions. This is regardless of the issue of staff training for NIR staff to operate the 22000s is taken into account

Similarly, restrictions applies to NIR stock which requires CAWS kits to be fitted for full service running along with pre testing and staff training where applicable.

Victor

Losty Dublin wrote: »

This is regardless of the issue of staff training for NIR staff to operate the 22000s is taken into account

Under what circumstances would NIR staff be operating a 22000?

Losty Dublin

Victor wrote: »

Under what circumstances would NIR staff be operating a 22000?

As it stands now, a 22000 can only be driven by an IR driver and a C3k or C4K by an NIR driver. In the event of a failure, it currently limits a home crew to work a relief or replacement train at either end.

Losty Dublin

Losty Dublin wrote: »

As it stands now, a 22000 can only be driven by an IR driver and a C3k or C4K by an NIR driver. In the event of a failure, it currently limits a home crew to work a relief or replacement train at either end.

I'd say that an advantage in the pre-DD era was that the 071s and 111s were virtually identical, so there shouldn't have been anything stopping NIR drivers from driving 071s and vice versa.

CaptainFreedom

Karsini wrote: »

I'd say that an advantage in the pre-DD era was that the 071s and 111s were virtually identical, so there shouldn't have been anything stopping NIR drivers from driving 071s and vice versa.

That is still the case, but the ever expanding h+s crap means the driver would now need knowledge of TPWS and CAWS, or at least have a pilotman on board

goingnowhere

But the driver couldn't go cross border unless he/she knew the line, they would have training to TPWS and AWS

Thankfully the NIR rule book is the same rule book as IE

ardmacha

But the driver couldn't go cross border unless he/she knew the line, they would have training to TPWS and AWS

Whose bright idea was it to have two different protection system anyway?

ardmacha

ardmacha wrote: »

Whose bright idea was it to have two different protection system anyway?

As Northern Ireland are part of the UK they're required by law to use TPWS. It's only a recent thing, within the last few years.

CIÉ on the other hand have been using CAWS since the 1980s and was a far superior system to anything in use in NI at the time.

Losty Dublin

Karsini wrote: »

As Northern Ireland are part of the UK they're required by law to use TPWS. It's only a recent thing, within the last few years.

CIÉ on the other hand have been using CAWS since the 1980s and was a far superior system to anything in use in NI at the time.

And it still is superior to TPWS in some ways. It's one failing is that it isn't a dedicated train protection system. This means that it installation is always going to be a voluntary undertaking, it being an in cab signal indicator as distinct from an out and out protection system.

I gather NIR asked for a derogation on the use of TPWS but were turned down in their request.