Trapping Ferral Cats

Robotack

I have several of these around my place. Rotten diseased looking things with fur hanging off etc. and they stand their ground too if you try to run them.

So firstly, is it legal to shoot / trap / kill them? And secondly, if it is legal, my place is a bit too built up to shoot so I'd be looking at trapping them then dispatching them elsewhere.

Cass

To keep thngs nice, and legal i would trap away as you intended to, but then call the ISPCA to come and collect them. Let them deal with them.

You said it's too built up to shoot them anyway so once trapped the hard work is done.

Robotack

Sounds like a plan. Any suggestions on the trapping method?

excaliburhc

use feral cats ireland
http://feralcatsireland.org/Feral_Cats/Feral_Cat_News.html

they will at least look after them and see what can be done to make sure they are treated properly.

Cass

Do you know anyone with a trap? I know that's a simplistic answer, but i don't trap myself.

If all else fails, and you cannot get a trap maybe the ISPCA would do the trapping for you. I'm at a loss for a real solution other than the obvious which in your situation is a no go.

Eddie B

Robotack wrote: »

Sounds like a plan. Any suggestions on the trapping method?

Get a cat trap!! Think i stuck up a picture of one here a while back!!

hedzball

How built up are we talking?..

Was asked to shoot em in a industrial estate once..

22lr at lunch time..

Subs and mod.. 7kittys..

Hate the things..







'hdz

moby30

There's all the traps you want down here robotack. Theres also an ispca:D

Robotack

Eddie B wrote: »

Get a cat trap!! Think i stuck up a picture of one here a while back!!

Never really knew there was such a specific thing... Til now

... Cheers Moby!


On the legal side, I'm wondering if they are protected or anything like that?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Inform the ISPCA maybe, I wouldn't go about killing them.

gozunda

Robotack wrote: »

Eddie B wrote: »

Get a cat trap!! Think i stuck up a picture of one here a while back!!

Never really knew there was such a specific thing... Til now

... Cheers Moby!


On the legal side, I'm wondering if they are protected or anything like that?

You could possibly be done for animal cruelty under present legislation if you take up shooting cats whether they are feral or not

Cats are not classified as a nuisance species and could result in a revoke of your license depending on circumstances.

Contact one of the groups that offer trapping or trap them and hand over as necessary

Very dodgy area to enter into imo.

Birdnuts

gozunda wrote: »

You could possibly be done for animal cruelty under present legislation if you take up shooting cats whether they are feral or not

Cats are not classified as a nuisance species and could result in a revoke of your license depending on circumstances.

Contact one of the groups that offer trapping or trap them and hand over as necessary

Very dodgy area to enter into imo.

My reading of various acts covering this area would suggest that "feral" cats have more or less the same status in law as the likes of mink, foxes etc. Obviously pet cats are an entirely different matter under the law and one should obviously tread very carefully when dealing with such issues in that regard.


On the subject of the control of ferals, I have to say that most cat owners I know understand the need for the feral problem to be dealt with. Not least the long list of problems they cause to domestic cats in terms of disease vectors, killing/injuries inflicted on pet cats, unwanted pregancies etc.

Grizzly 45

Standard Mink style trap can be used.Or a live fox trap will work fine.
As for shooting them,if they are in the fields 200 meters from the nearest lived in house,and obviously not wearing a collar,do your local wildlife and birds a favour....:rolleyes:

Boiled-egg

Feral cats feral pigeons same difference IMO. If its safe to shoot then its the most humane way.

gozunda

Robotack wrote: »

I have several of these around my place. Rotten diseased looking things with fur hanging off etc. and they stand their ground too if you try to run them.

So firstly, is it legal to shoot / trap / kill them? And secondly, if it is legal, my place is a bit too built up to shoot so I'd be looking at trapping them then dispatching them elsewhere.

Birdnuts wrote: »

My reading of various acts covering this area would suggest that "feral" cats have more or less the same status in law as the likes of mink, foxes etc. Obviously pet cats are an entirely different matter under the law and one should obviously tread very carefully when dealing with such issues in that regard.

On the subject of the control of ferals, I have to say that most cat owners I know understand the need for the feral problem to be dealt with. Not least the long list of problems they cause to domestic cats in terms of disease vectors, killing/injuries inflicted on pet cats, unwanted pregancies etc.

I dont agree tbh that it is covered tbh. The text below from the Garda Siochana Site LINK

The OP has indicated that he wishes to trap/shoot/kill them because they are diseased.

Cats do not fall under the remit of the wildlife Acts as they are non native and classified as a domestic species

I know of a near neighbour whose license was revoked because of using his gun for something similar. I believe it can be quite hard to ditinguish nexts doors "Tiddles" from a "feral" cat down a scope. Something to bear in mind imo.

Humane Killing of Animals [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
The humane killing of sick or injured animals with a firearm
is normally confined to those who may deal with such animals on a fairly regular basis. Examples would include veterinary surgeons, ISPCA inspectors, hunt servants, and occupiers of farms and smallholdings. These firearms require a firearm certificate and will be captured on the application form as ‘Other’.
[/FONT][/FONT]

Grizzly 45

gozunda wrote: »

I dont agree tbh that it is covered tbh. The text below from the Garda Siochana Site LINK

Errr..Hunters wouldnt have much contact with animals then????
The largest gun owning section of Irish shooters happens to be"occupiers of farms and smallholdings" [IE Farmers]
Note also it is giving examples ,not only qualified personel to put down animals .

The OP has indicated that he wishes to trap/shoot/kill them because they are diseased.

A most commendable action on his part and should be congratulated for such public minded spirit.:cool:

Cats do not fall under the remit of the wildlife Acts as they are non native and classified as a domestic species

Sorry,WRONG!! they are classified the same as any feral species,same as feral piegons,goats,pigs,dogs,cats.IOW one generation born in the wild makes them feral and not under the protection of the wildlife act which has listed species.Cats large or small,or ex domestic animals are not mentioned.

I know of a near neighbour whose license was revoked because of using his gun for something similar.

Names ,places,dates ,of news paper articles,[Headline and first paragraph or sentence only to avoid libel laws],website link etc, please .
Otherwise we take those stories around here as heresay.

I believe it can be quite hard to ditinguish nexts doors "Tiddles" from a "feral" cat down a scope. Something to bear in mind imo.

"Tiddles" should not be out prowling about predating the local wildlife outside its owners property for a start!! The "excuse " that cat owners "naturally wander and have a right to do so " is NO excuse under law!

You own an animal wether it is a cat,dog,cow ,pig,goat or a horse,you are responsible for it.
Any animal will wander if left unattended ,if your dog ,cow or horse wanders and you the owner can be sued for damage caused why not cats??

Anyway,it is quite easy to see thru a scope wether the moggie is wearing[as it should be] a collar,is well fed and cared for.Or is some semi wild starving mangy fleabag.

gozunda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Errr..Hunters wouldnt have much contact with animals then????The largest gun owning section of Irish shooters happens to be"occupiers of farms and smallholdings" [IE Farmers]
Note also it is giving examples ,not only qualified personel to put down animals .

Grizzly you appear to have completly misunderstood what is written tbh....The text below is taken directly from the garda Firearms licensing Website - it is not something I have made up. I would suggest you study it carefully. For your benefit I have reposted the releveant section below

The OP suggested that he is asking to shoot/trap/kill cats - he does not state he is an occupier of a farm or small holding and I based my reply relevant to that and what the OP himself says would the killing of sick/injured animals - therefore the humane killing section is relevant ok.
From Garda Website

Humane Killing of Animals
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The humane killing of sick or injured animals with a firearm [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]is normally confined to those who may deal with such animals on a fairly regular basis. Examples would include veterinary surgeons, ISPCA inspectors, hunt servants, and occupiers of farms and smallholdings. These firearms require a firearm certificate and will be captured on the application form as ‘Other’. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]........[/FONT]

[/FONT]Other Animals[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Authority may be requested to shoot animals which fall outside the scope of usual types of game or vermin, for example, feral goat or wild boar and the normal requirements with regard to shooting over land will [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]apply.[/FONT]

[/FONT]

I think this scenario presumes that the animal requires humane destruction by reason of being sick injured, does not belong to another person and is not being shot because just because someone has an inherent dislike of a one or more species

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A most commendable action on his part and should be congratulated for such public minded spirit.:cool:

Well yes quite.... But as a country the firearms licensing laws as far as I am aware do not have any provision for "public minded spirit" if we had then there would be a queue for the dispatch of various scum and other lead deficient problems.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sorry,WRONG!! they are classified the same as any feral species,same as feral piegons,goats,pigs,dogs,cats.IOW one generation born in the wild makes them feral and not under the protection of the wildlife act which has listed species.Cats large or small,or ex domestic animals are not mentioned.

No not the case (No need to shout btw!). Would you provide a link for the classification you mentioned above for reference purposes - Thanks. I have never ever seen such a classification. I await this with interest

I am aware they are not a protected species In much the way cows and other specific species are nor. And correct they are not mentioned neither as they are not wildlife. I am aware they are not on restricted lists, but as they are not wildlife they would not be listed anyway. They are in fact non native animals of domestic origin. It is of note that just because they are Not Mentioned does not mean that shooting them is legal especially within the meaning of Firearms licensing. Your logic is faulty in this regard. I know of a number of feral ponies living in woodland - this does not mean that I have a de facto right to go and shoot them. If they are sick and diseased I am obliged to call in the relevant autorities.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Names ,places,dates ,of news paper articles,[Headline and first paragraph or sentence only to avoid libel laws],website link etc, please .Otherwise we take those stories around here as heresay.

Before getting the old underwear in a twist The incident I referred to is of a near neighbour (so no I wont give names etc for obvious reasons). As far as I am aware no it didn't make the papers etc. When he applied for a renewal of his license the gardai declined to do so on the basis of just that - shooting tiddles in a public minded spirit - Whose rather angry owner had reported and documented this to the guards - perhaps you could give them a ring if you want to find out more ok?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Tiddles" should not be out prowling about predating the local wildlife outside its owners property for a start!! The "excuse " that cat owners "naturally wander and have a right to do so " is NO excuse under law!

Your "public Spirit" is again showing I'm afraid! There is No Law that obliges anyone to lock up Tiddles. I believe under the current law it is presumed that "Tiddles" will roam and therefore any owners are not accountable. Not saying the current law is correct and perhaps could do with being changed But that said the law as it stands does not allow for the law to be enforced by idiots either.

I hunt some of the the same "wildlife" but wont presume to own it. If its was on my property or other area I have permission to be on and legally allowed to shoot that wildlife with regard to the firearm certificate I will certainly do so. However I dont ever remember coming across any law that states that aninals cannot also hunt. I think that I would be more than happy with a cat killing rats on my property

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You own an animal wether it is a cat,dog,cow ,pig,goat or a horse,you are responsible for it.
Any animal will wander if left unattended ,if your dog ,cow or horse wanders and you the owner can be sued for damage caused why not cats??

I am sure people do sue but thats not really the point here is it? As I said the law as it stands doesnt require tiddles to be tied up.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Anyway,it is quite easy to see thru a scope wether the moggie is wearing[as it should be] a collar,is well fed and cared for.Or is some semi wild starving mangy fleabag.

Well for starters Tiddles does not Have to wear a collar. And It is not that easy to tell whether tiddles is or not someones personal pet. Personally I admire the hunting ability of cats - they are super efficient hunters and fair play to them. I dont think anyone should allow a patholoical hatred of any animal to influence their desire to shoot something. That is not what hunting is about imo.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=gozunda;81023230]Grizzly you appear to have completly misunderstood what is written tbh....The text below is taken directly from the garda Firearms licensing Website - it is not something I have made up. I would suggest you study it carefully. For your benefit I have reposted the releveant section below

Tbh You have!! You are ASSuming that because it it is only mentioning three examples that there are the only people qualified under this to dispatch animals.And thank you for reposting it but for your benefit you should read it as well..These are examples,not statute qualified people,and that is a guideline that AGS is giving there,and as they say themselves "They are only guidelines.."
And as I said one of the biggest qualified personel are farmers and small holders who are mostly gunowners.

The OP suggested that he is asking to shoot/trap/kill cats - he does not state he is an occupier of a farm or small holding and I based my reply relevant to that and what the OP himself says would the killing of sick/injured animals - therefore the humane killing section is relevant ok.
From Garda Website

Would it be revelant in your opinion if he was?? You based your reply on insufficent informantion and an assumption that he is not one of the qualified listed personel.

I think this scenario presumes that the animal requires humane destruction by reason of being sick injured, does not belong to another person and is not being shot because just because someone has an inherent dislike of a one or more species

As would most people.However the problem is you are within your right to shoot feral cats.You are saying it is impossible to tell the difference "down a scope" between a domestic cat and a semi wild cat..
I think anyone who has the slightest experiance of cats would be able to tell that,especially if they are out and doing good game management and vermin patrols.

Well yes quite.... But as a country the firearms licensing laws as far as I am aware do not have any provision for "public minded spirit" if we had then there would be a queue for the dispatch of various scum and other lead deficient problems.

Ironic sarcasm is lost on you then??:)

Trapping and disposing of disease carrying animals at your own expense not to the taxpayer or some"save the pussies with tax payers monies" organisation,classifies INMVHO as a public service...The firearms laws have nothing to do with it.

No not the case (No need to shout btw!). Would you provide a link for the classification you mentioned above for reference purposes - Thanks. I have never ever seen such a classification. I await this with interest

SHOUTING IS TYPING A SENTENCE IN CAPITALS,not emphasising a word!!

I am emphasing a point about your incorrect reading of the wildlife acts...There is a link to them here on this site.Please point out to us where feral animals enjoy protection under the wildlife act!!! I ,and many others will await with great intrest you pointing out which paragraphs cover the protection of feral animals,where they have a season.

I

am aware they are not a protected species In much the way cows and other specific species are nor. And correct they are not mentioned neither as they are not wildlife. I am aware they are not on restricted lists, but as they are not wildlife they would not be listed anyway.

Since when have cows got an open season or are protected????They are domestic farm animals..
Ergo by your logic, if they are not wildlife,and they are not domestic,and Btw there is no such thing as a "restricted list" in the wildlife act.It is either protected or exempted.Unfortunately you are wrong again...Non protected "wildlife" is mentioned every year in the act as being exempt ,like sea gulls,starlings,etc.
Feral animals are not mentioned,as it obviously wasnt a major concern when this was drafted,or escaped the legislators..So if you want cats protected lobby the govt to change the act..But until it happens there is no exemption for feral animals,ergo you cannot be prosecuted for somthing that is not legislated under written law.Wether Malo inse or Malo Prohibida.

They are in fact non native animals of domestic origin. It is of note that just because they are Not Mentioned does not mean that shooting them is legal especially within the meaning of Firearms licensing.

Wrong again...As they are not mentioned anywhere in a statue regarding firearms law or wildlife acts means that there is no particular crime of shooting them . IOW unless there is an act that states "The shooting of any felines in the ROI,wether feral or domestic under Act so and so paragraph blah,section whatever is an offence".
If there is such an act please show us "idiots":rolleyes:

Your logic is faulty in this regard. I know of a number of feral ponies living in woodland - this does not mean that I have a de facto right to go and shoot them. If they are sick and diseased I am obliged to call in the relevant autorities.

Actually if they are on your land and no one claims them you have a right to dispose of them as you see fit.Wether by calling in a horse knacker,or digging a hole and dispatching them yourself,or simply booting them out on the road again..
If they are properly registerd under the EU Equine law ,they should be chipped and if the revelant authorthies could be botherd actually dealing with this problem,which most are very reluctant to do so as it might offend a certain section of our soiciety who have a very lazziez faire attitude to bothersome things like animal registration,car registration,public order,and firearms laws to mention a few.
So its up to whomever that owns that forest to dispatch them as they see fit.If they want wild horses running amuck on their property thats their affair.

But seeing that you are so helpful with places or locations,we'll take that anecdote with another pound of salt.

Before getting the old underwear in a twist The incident I referred to is of a near neighbour (so no I wont give names etc for obvious reasons). As far as I am aware no it didn't make the papers etc. When he applied for a renewal of his license the gardai declined to do so on the basis of just that - shooting tiddles in a public minded spirit -

IOW Anecdoteal evidence.

Whose rather angry owner had reported and documented this to the guards - perhaps you could give them a ring if you want to find out more ok?

FACEPALM!!
..Ring the Gaurds and ask about somone ,somwhere ,who supposedly shot a cat and some owner complained abouut it to revoke a liscens somplace???? Because somone on a chat group said it was so???
Did you actually consider what you wrote there?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your "public Spirit" is again showing I'm afraid! There is No Law that obliges anyone to lock up Tiddles.

YES there is! Its called control of animals act.. It states quite clearly that you are responsible as an animal owner for the actions of your animal wether it is a big one or a cat.Doesnt presume that automatically cats are exempt.Even if there wasnt a law you would think good common sense and love of your pet you would be concerned about it wandering off...

I believe under the current law it is presumed that "Tiddles" will roam and therefore any owners are not accountable. Not saying the current law is correct and perhaps could do with being changed But that said the law as it stands does not allow for the law to be enforced by idiots either.

Then maybe the arrogant idiot cat owners should keep their cats under control ,and show some responsibility??Be it as it may it does not apply to feral cats who are ownerless.

I hunt some of the the same "wildlife" but wont presume to own it. If its was on my property or other area I have permission to be on and legally allowed to shoot that wildlife with regard to the firearm certificate I will certainly do so.

And if you look at your cert,you will find you are entitled to hunt vermin,that includes feral species.As feral cats do not enjoy any protection under the law or wildlife act,you can shoot or trap them under the law.QED!!

However I dont ever remember coming across any law that states that aninals cannot also hunt. I think that I would be more than happy with a cat killing rats on my property

Strawman arguement.

I am sure people do sue but thats not really the point here is it? As I said the law as it stands doesnt require tiddles to be tied up.

It certainly requires it to be under control ,not making a nusiance of itself and staying within its owners boundaries.Which hardly applies to feral or wild cats.

Well for starters Tiddles does not Have to wear a collar. And It is not that easy to tell whether tiddles is or not someones personal pet.

So another bit of irresponsible pet ownership!!
"Ah shure it doesnt need to wear a collar,but there might be a chance it could be shot ,but I wont bother putting any sort of ID on it to prove it is a domestic pet! or it gets lost or injured":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
And you cant tell the difference between a well fed looked after cat and a scruffy feral diseased wild cat by looking at it thru the scope?????

Personally I admire the hunting ability of cats - they are super efficient hunters and fair play to them.

As you said they are a non native predator species that causes untold damage to native wildlife,and if not kept properly is a domestic pet reverts to a wild animal very quickly.

I dont think anyone should allow a patholoical hatred of any animal to influence their desire to shoot something. That is not what hunting is about imo.

Honestly! A pathological hatred......:rolleyes::rolleyes:.More like controlling a disease carrying predator that is not bein cared by or abandoned by its human owners.

gozunda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Tbh You have!! You are ASSuming that because it it is only mentioning three examples that there are the only people qualified under this to dispatch animals.And thank you for reposting it but for your benefit you should read it as well..These are examples,not statute qualified people,and that is a guideline that AGS is giving there,and as they say themselves "They are only guidelines.."
And as I said one of the biggest qualified personel are farmers and small holders who are mostly gunowners.

No this is relevant because the OP wishes to trap/shoot/kill specific animals becase they are sick / diseased. If the OP wishes to do so he must ascertain that he is doing so within the law and that includes the conditions of his his Firearm Certificate. On the other hand he also strongly indicates (as you do) that you cant stand the mangy things and would like to dispose of them because of this and not because he is necessarily a good samaratian and has tiddles (x 10) best interests at heart.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[
Would it be revelant in your opinion if he was?? You based your reply on insufficent informantion and an assumption that he is not one of the qualified listed personel.

Says who - yourself? I based a reply on information given. Has the OP given insufficient information? How do you know this? Go back and read OPs first mail. He is quite clear in what he does and does not state. No point in replying to some makey upy hypothethical scenario tbh.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As would most people.However the problem is you are within your right to shoot feral cats.You are saying it is impossible to tell the difference "down a scope" between a domestic cat and a semi wild cat..

What I have shown previously is that this is at best a grey area in legal terms. There is no "right to shoot feral cats" that I have discovered to date. There is no list that I can find that defines what a "feral cat" is or gives anyone a defined permision to shoot.

In Irish law distinction is made between wild animals (ferae naturae) and domestic animals (mansuetae naturae). Whether a particular kind of animal is classified as wild or domesticated is a question of law. Judicial precedent is important, therefore, in determining into which class an animal fits. Cats, dogs and cattle have all been treated as domestic animals . Elephants, bears and Zebras have, not surprisingly, all been classified as wild animals Link

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I think anyone who has the slightest experiance of cats would be able to tell that,especially if they are out and doing good game management and vermin patrols.

So let me ask what is the difference between a stray and a feral cat by apperance then?. What if the pet cat is old or has had a previous accident and although a pet not obviously the best looking thing in the world. The fact is there is no definitative method of telling a cats origins especially if that cats is out lets say hunting rats. And remember that cats are often good vermin removers themselves.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ironic sarcasm is lost on you then??:)Trapping and disposing of disease carrying animals at your own expense not to the taxpayer or some"save the pussies with tax payers monies" organisation,classifies INMVHO as a public service...The firearms laws have nothing to do with it.

Not at all I thought I would reply in kind . We could save the country expense by carrying out any number of tax saving functions - it does not follow that this is either legal or best practice tbh no matter how much we may believe we are doing the public good!Firearms laws and the laws of the country have everything to do with it - otherwise we face public backlash at best and possible prosecution for ilegal activities.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

SHOUTING IS TYPING A SENTENCE IN CAPITALS,not emphasising a word!!

That is what Bold is for! Leave CAPITALS for shouting!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I am emphasing a point about your incorrect reading of the wildlife acts...There is a link to them here on this site.

Now I did ask nicely previuosly - where is the listing you referred to of Feral Species?. I have never seen this. I await again with interest. Thanks!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Please point out to us where feral animals enjoy protection under the wildlife act!!! I ,and many others will await with great intrest you pointing out which paragraphs cover the protection of feral animals,where they have a season.

Arha You are paraphrasing me! Please reread my previous post I clearly explained that animals of domestic origin such as dogs and cats are not wildlife and for obvious reasons dont appear in that act. As stated Just because they do not appear in a wildlife list does not mean they are fair game either ....

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Since when have cows got an open season or are protected????They are domestic farm animals..
Ergo by your logic, if they are not wildlife,and they are not domestic,and Btw there is no such thing as a "restricted list" in the wildlife act.It is either protected or exempted.Unfortunately you are wrong again...Non protected "wildlife" is mentioned every year in the act as being exempt ,like sea gulls,starlings,etc.

Did not say they were! Do excuse me I said "restricted" that is of course "exempted" - my bad! Again reread prev post. Just because an animal is not protected or exempted under the wildlife act (eg cows) does not make it avaialble for target shooting -even if you really dont like wandering sheep or cows or cats. Yes non protected wildlife is mentioned but there is no mention of cats that I have ever found.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Feral animals are not mentioned,as it obviously wasnt a major concern when this was drafted,or escaped the legislators..

Feral animals (as you refer to feral cats) are not mentioned because in this instance they are not wildlife! Either protected / Not Protected / Exempted. They are animals of domestic origin.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So if you want cats protected lobby the govt to change the act..But until it happens there is no exemption for feral animals,ergo you cannot be prosecuted for somthing that is not legislated under written law.Wether Malo inse or Malo Prohibida.

What I wish to point out is that nowhere that I can find does it indicate that cats without identified owners are classified as feral and that they can be shot. This is at best a legal grey area especially with reference to Firearm Certificate Requirements. So if I go and shoot a cow I find in my cabbage patch on the basis that I believe it is a feral cow - I wont either loose my license or be prosecuted? - I doubt it...

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Wrong again...As they are not mentioned anywhere in a statue regarding firearms law or wildlife acts means that there is no particular crime of shooting them . IOW unless there is an act that states "The shooting of any felines in the ROI,wether feral or domestic under Act so and so paragraph blah,section whatever is an offence".
If there is such an act please show us "idiots":rolleyes:

See example of the cow above - (there is no law that states I cant shoot a cow in my cabbage patch as far as I am aware) And just because cats are not refered to (& I thought in your previous post you said they were?) does not mean you are allowed to shoot them!. Anyone who does risks being prosecuted under various statutes eg Animal welfare and runs the risk of having their firearm license revoked / not renewed.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Actually if they are on your land and no one claims them you have a right to dispose of them as you see fit.Wether by calling in a horse knacker,or digging a hole and dispatching them yourself,or simply booting them out on the road again..

Again there are very specific conditions pertaining to strayed, abandoned and trespassing animals all under different acts. I suggest you go take a look at these urgently

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If they are properly registerd under the EU Equine law ,they should be chipped and if the revelant authorthies could be botherd actually dealing with this problem,which most are very reluctant to do so as it might offend a certain section of our soiciety who have a very lazziez faire attitude to bothersome things like animal registration,car registration,public order,and firearms laws to mention a few.
So its up to whomever that owns that forest to dispatch them as they see fit.If they want wild horses running amuck on their property thats their affair.

The law is quite clear - you cant just go and shoot a horse either - even if they are wild and fending for themselves. You may be able to put one down if it is sick and injured and on your land but know you cant just do a Shwartzeneger on them as far as I am aware

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But seeing that you are so helpful with places or locations,we'll take that anecdote with another pound of salt.IOW Anecdoteal evidence.FACEPALM!!..Ring the Gaurds and ask about somone ,somwhere ,who supposedly shot a cat and some owner complained abouut it to revoke a liscens somplace???? Because somone on a chat group said it was so???Did you actually consider what you wrote there??

And without your feral listing I must decline to take your assertions about cats out enjoying the fresh air with anything less. You dont think it actually happened - Ok So. No skin off my nose. Off you go and live happily and believe you can shoot domestic animals because you dont really like them and actually believe because there is no law saying that Johny cant shoot domestic animals !

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

YES there is! Its called control of animals act.. It states quite clearly that you are responsible as an animal owner for the actions of your animal wether it is a big one or a cat.Doesnt presume that automatically cats are exempt.Even if there wasnt a law you would think good common sense and love of your pet you would be concerned about it wandering off...

An owner may be responsible for an animal where libility can be proven. There is a control of Dogs Act but interestingly there is no control of Cats Act - I wonder why . Cats wander - go figure!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Then maybe the arrogant idiot cat owners should keep their cats under control ,and show some responsibility??Be it as it may it does not apply to feral cats who are ownerless.

Why? There is no legal obligation to lock up/licence/collar or otherwise restrict a cat. They are not identified as dangerous animals and there natural inclination is to hunt (I like to hunt too!)

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And if you look at your cert,you will find you are entitled to hunt vermin,that includes feral species.As feral cats do not enjoy any protection under the law or wildlife act,you can shoot or trap them under the law.QED!!

Oh deary me we are going around in circles. Yes hunt vermin. But I have never found cats listed as vermin (you said you had a list?) Or listed under feral species (ditto). They are not wildlife under the meaning of the wildlife Act. It is nearly impossible to identify Tiddles from his stray or non owned cousin either And ommission from a statement in law stating that Johny can or cannot shoot Tiddles or his cousin does not mean you can (Just as I dont presume I can shoot a cow in my cabbage patch!) so no qed for you I'm afraid

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Strawman arguement.

Yes I agree you argument does remind me a bit of that tbh

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It certainly requires it to be under control ,not making a nusiance of itself and staying within its owners boundaries.Which hardly applies to feral or wild cats.

Says what law? Says You? Doesnt count tbh. cats with owners wander and hunt as much as non owned variety in my experience and fair play to them.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So another bit of irresponsible pet ownership!! "Ah shure it doesnt need to wear a collar,but there might be a chance it could be shot ,but I wont bother putting any sort of ID on it to prove it is a domestic pet! or it gets lost or injured":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
And you cant tell the difference between a well fed looked after cat and a scruffy feral diseased wild cat by looking at it thru the scope?????

Well I believe collars are dangerous for cats (climbing and all that) It is illegal to shoot cats just because you dont like them btw) by the sound of it I dont really believe you would make the distinction collar or not....

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As you said they are a non native predator species that causes untold damage to native wildlife,and if not kept properly is a domestic pet reverts to a wild animal very quickly.

Hey I am a non native species predator that does damage to native wildlife! Have you got a problem with that eh? Humans take out more wildlife that Tiddles ever will. At least Tiddles will generally eat what he kills. I prefer to have cats around to rats if I am honest!:D

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Honestly! A pathological hatred.....More like controlling a disease carrying predator that is not bein cared by or abandoned by its human owners.

Ohhhh showing the true colours there eh? Humans carry disease too - should we start shooting each other as well? maybe you could take some in and give them a good home. They are great company I believe :rolleyes:

CJhaughey

Its the same every time that Feral cats come up. People come out of the woodwork saying that cats are protected...
OP, Get a shovel and learn the three S's

gozunda

This is the law as it stands currently;

There is no official definition anywhere of cats as a "feral" species (despite some claims to the contrary)

Some one at some stage has presumed their has been - this does not exist. Believing you have a right is not the same thing as actually having the right to do so.

An land owner / with permission with a limited licence has permission to use a shotgun for killing of animals and birds other than that other than protected wild birds and animals under the meaning of the wildlife act 1974. A landowner may "humanly kill" animals that are sick or injured where he deals with such animals on a fairly regular basis ie the implication is that he is the owner / minder of such animals. Neither is there a listing of cats as vermin for the purposes of shooting.

This is further detailed in The Firearms Act which details game and pest species that may be shot

Nor is there mention of the term "feral" anywhere in relation to cats dogs etc

Under Irish law cats and dogs are viewed as domestic species

As for the shooting of species of domestic origin that are trespassing the following is detailed under the control of dogs act

Dogs trespassing on to land and worrying livestock may be shot where certain criteria have been met

The trespass of other domestic animals is dealt with under the term "cattle trespass" which may include other farmed animals including geese etc it does not detail destruction of animals where such animals have trespassed on land except for the reasons of humane killing. The killing of an animal not belonging to the person may give rise to legal action for compensation etc

Apart from there being no legal basis for feral cats it is practically impossible to identify an owned cat / a working cat / cat not directly owned by an individual with any certainty.

There is no presumed trespass by cats under the current statutes and unlike the control of dogs there is no provision of the shooting of same for simple trespass

Cats do not have to be restricted or kept under an owners control under present laws

A cat is not presumed to be trespassing just because it is on someone's land and there is no defined legal validity for shooting any cat that does

The danger of using the excuse of shooting a cat is that it is impossible to prove that it is in fact not someone's pet that is doing what cats are permitted do do under law.

There is a very real risk of having a firearms license revoked on the basis of using the firearm for purposes not authorised in their firearm certificate

Vegeta

gozunda can you tell me, specifically, under what section of what act a person shall be prosecuted for shooting a cat which has no owner and lives solely in the wild? Also go to irishstatutebook.ie and quote it.

To break a law you have to breach a section of an act. Quoting whole acts and implying they mean X,Y and Z is your opinion and not fact.

gozunda

Vegeta wrote: »

gozunda can you tell me, specifically, under what section of what act a person shall be prosecuted for shooting a cat which has no owner and lives solely in the wild? Also go to irishstatutebook.ie and quote it.

To break a law you have to breach a section of an act. Quoting whole acts and implying they mean X,Y and Z is your opinion and not fact.

? Here i have been specifically related the issue in relation to the misuse of a firearm and its possible consequences. As I understand it cats are animals of domestic origin. As stated they are neither classified therefore as vermin or feral species. It is practically impossible to determine a cat as "wild" hence the issue.
As I jokingly referred to before I may believe the cow in my cabbage patch to be wild but I would not expect to be allowed to shoot it even I swore blind that I had seen the thing living wild up the mountain and my defence is that i have never seen any law that states that I cant shoot a cow in my cabbage patch! Shooting cats as such could in specific circumstances a misuse of a firearm especially where there is no ability to prove that a cat is wild as I have already have an example. I have not quoted whole acts as opinion - check out the wording yourself of the relevant acts. You can also check for relevant legislation legal interpretation ie on the garda website and irish legal website that will explain how the law impacts on this regard.

A cat is not "wildlife" and is therefore not "protected" under this act just as in the way dogs are not " listed" or "protected" under this act either

Take your statement above about shooting a cat and replace the word cat with any other animal of domestic origin and this becomes obvious.

A misuse of a firearm or harm caused to such an animal may result in a person loosing theie license etc

Thinkingaboutit

hedzball wrote: »

How built up are we talking?..
Was asked to shoot em in a industrial estate once..
22lr at lunch time..
Subs and mod.. 7kittys..
Hate the things..
'hdz

Trap and phone call. A lot of pet cats won't have a collar as collars get caught in branches.

Birdnuts

gozunda wrote: »

? Here i have been specifically related the issue in relation to the misuse of a firearm and its possible consequences. As I understand it cats are animals of domestic origin. As stated they are neither classified therefore as vermin or feral species. It is practically impossible to determine a cat as "wild" hence the issue.
As I jokingly referred to before I may believe the cow in my cabbage patch to be wild but I would not expect to be allowed to shoot it even I swore blind that I had seen the thing living wild up the mountain and my defence is that i have never seen any law that states that I cant shoot a cow in my cabbage patch! Shooting cats as such could in specific circumstances a misuse of a firearm especially where there is no ability to prove that a cat is wild as I have already have an example. I have not quoted whole acts as opinion - check out the wording yourself of the relevant acts. You can also check for relevant legislation legal interpretation ie on the garda website and irish legal website that will explain how the law impacts on this regard.

A cat is not "wildlife" and is therefore not "protected" under this act just as in the way dogs are not " listed" or "protected" under this act either

Take your statement above about shooting a cat and replace the word cat with any other animal of domestic origin and this becomes obvious.

A misuse of a firearm or harm caused to such an animal may result in a person loosing theie license etc

I still can't see the difference in law between feral cats and feral goats,pigeons etc. all of which can be shot on sight. Straying cattle etc. are different in that they are clearly not "feral". As I said earlier the shooting of anyones pet/livestock is obviously unlawfull and unexceptable but this simply does not arise with "ferals". Under various EU directives, Ireland is required to remove non-native invasive species like mink,racoon etc. to protect native fauna and feral cats have been "removed" from various offshore islands under this guise in various parts of Europe.

Vegeta

I thought your response would be along those lines.

A wild cat, which this thread is about, is covered by the wildlife act. Fauna is defined in the Act, amended in 2000 as:

fauna means all wild birds and all wild animals (both aquatic and terrestrial) and includes wild mammals, reptiles, amphibians and aquatic and non-aquatic invertebrate animals, and all such wild animals' eggs, larvae, pupae or other immature stage and young;

Whether or not a cat is wild or domestic is not the point of this thread, or how difficult it is to identify one from the other.

This thread is about how to deal with wild cats so can we please stick to that topic.

Sparks

gozunda wrote: »

As stated they are neither classified therefore as vermin or feral species.

There's no such thing as a feral species, either in law or in any other sense. "Feral " is a descriptor of an individual within a species, based solely on how that individual lives. You don't have feral cats and domestic cats as different species; you just have cats and where they live and how they behave decides their state as domestic or feral.

It is practically impossible to determine a cat as "wild" hence the issue.

The onus is on the cat's owner to ensure that determination can be made, usually using a visible collar and keeping their cat confined within their property. Cats are predators, always have been; if you have one as a pet, it's your personal responsibility to bear that in mind when caring for them.

You can also check for relevant legislation legal interpretation ie on the garda website

First of all, what you quoted from the Garda website is not law; it's guidance. There's a deep divide between the two.
Secondly, you won't find legal interpretation on the Garda website, because that's not something they're qualified to give and they know it and don't want any part of it. You get legal interpretation from a judge, nobody else. Anyone else saying the same thing as a judge is giving legal opinion, and unless it's coming from a solicitor, the standard caveat about advice applies.

A cat is not "wildlife" and is therefore not "protected" under this act just as in the way dogs are not " listed" or "protected" under this act either

Cats and dogs aren't dealt with in quite the same way by the Act, last time I looked.

A misuse of a firearm or harm caused to such an animal may result in a person loosing theie license etc

That would be rather doubtful unless it was done in such a way as to be either reckless or genuinely sadistic; in which case completely different parts of the law would be used to pull their licences, and rightly so.
But shooting a feral cat is not illegal, and never has been, any more than shooting a dog who's worrying sheep or a fox eating chickens.

Vegeta

Thread has started to attract the attention of anti's and we've deleted a few posts already. OP has had some good suggestions and legal position has been clarified, so we've decided to close it.