Prison Architect

VinLieger

hooradiation wrote: »

Then you might want to take that up with Introversion, who offer the following at the 30 dollar tier



Looks like a pre-order to me.....

Semantics, youve bought the game and have access to the beta and every release up until the actual release, so call it whatever you want.

humanji

The game hasn't been released. It's a pre-order, with money going directly to the development of the game. As a bonus, people who pay get access to the alpha and beta versions as well as getting a say in the development of the game. Seriously, why is this even being argued? The discussion should be whether or not you think crowd funding is worthwhile, and in this particular case, do you feel the end result will be worth the initial cost.

VinLieger

humanji wrote: »

The game hasn't been released. It's a pre-order, with money going directly to the development of the game. As a bonus, people who pay get access to the alpha and beta versions as well as getting a say in the development of the game. Seriously, why is this even being argued? The discussion should be whether or not you think crowd funding is worthwhile, and in this particular case, do you feel the end result will be worth the initial cost.

I do think crowd funding is worthwhile, i just think the current price is too much for whats being offered right now, as i said if it was in beta i might have a different view

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

what is being offered right now is the exact same as you get from any pre order PLUS the chance to play the alpha of the game if you want

VinLieger

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

what is being offered right now is the exact same as you get from any pre order PLUS the chance to play the alpha of the game if you want

Yes it is but the key part is your helping them test the alpha of the game thats where i have a problem. For the beta? yeah this price is grand but for the alpha i disagree.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

but you get exactly the same thing either way

you get the full game

you dont have to pay 30 now and then pay extra when the game is finished

Polar101

This is a game I might buy when it's released, if it turns out to be good. I wouldn't personally pay for an alpha as I've no interest in testing unfinished products. I hope it works out for Introversion, I just don't have an interest in a business model like this. And yes I do understand the game wouldn't get released without it.

Dualtagh

Polar101 wrote: »

I wouldn't personally pay for an alpha as I've no interest in testing unfinished products.

It's not like playing an alpha requires you to log bugs. It's still very playable as is. I'm really enjoying it, worth the 18 euro I paid.

And crowdfunding is a great way to go, alot of people here are saying it's too expensive. But if you enjoy this type of game it's worth the money. They've raised over 1 million dollars so there is plenty of people that would agree with me on that.

gizmo

Magill wrote: »

Yes, because it looks like a cheap indie game. Just looking at the the video on their website of the game and having an idea what the game is about, i wouldn't pay more than $15.

I'm curious, if they had licenced Unreal Engine 3 or a similarly powerful engine, hired a decent sized team of artists, modellers and animators and made a far "prettier" game albeit with exactly the same gameplay mechanics, would you pay more for it?

Magill

gizmo wrote: »

I'm curious, if they had licenced Unreal Engine 3 or a similarly powerful engine, hired a decent sized team of artists, modellers and animators and made a far "prettier" game albeit with exactly the same gameplay mechanics, would you pay more for it?

Maybe, i mean it all depends. You honestly think that the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ? wise up. It is a very basic game with no story/cinematics/character development, probably no voice acting, very little animation, no professional writers etc... that doesn't make it a bad game, but it should make it a cheap game since it should have been very cheap to make.

gizmo

Magill wrote: »

Maybe, i mean it all depends. You honestly think that the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ? wise up.

What would it depend on? You've said it looks like a cheap indie game yet under the hood it'll be as feature complete as most other management sims out there. Therefore the question is simple, if they had pumped considerably resources into making it look prettier then would you deem it worth more?

As for the issue of whether a games pricing should be dictated by it's development costs, sure it should be a factor, but not the primary one. If it was, retail pricing would be all over the place. I mean, the budget for Star Wars: TOR was $200m, Halo 4 was $100m and Too Human was $60m. Demons Souls, on the other hand, was about about $10m. Hardly the best indicator of quality or worth of a title, is it?

Magill

gizmo wrote: »

What would it depend on? You've said it looks like a cheap indie game yet under the hood it'll be as feature complete as most other management sims out there. Therefore the question is simple, if they had pumped considerably resources into making it look prettier then would you deem it worth more?

It'll come down to whether or not i think its worth $30. This isn't something that's limited to indie games for me, i have the same attitude towards a lot of games.. which is why i'll wait for them to go on sale before buying them.

I paid less than $10 for Terraria and FTL, excellent games. Even something as great as Journey only cost $15, and thats a PSN game fs. Im also sure these games all did brilliant commercially, so their pricing structure was obviously profitable. This game looks no more costly to develop that any of those games, so to me charging $30 just comes across as greedy.

Reekwind

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

but you get exactly the same thing either way

you get the full game

No, what you are spending 30 quid on is the promise of a full game. It may never be finished (*cough*Subversion*cough*), it may never work, it may never be any good. There is a risk there

Which is why similar efforts (from Minecraft to Kickstarter) typically, albeit not always, offer discounts or a tiered structure to early customers

ShooterSF

Magill wrote: »

Maybe, i mean it all depends. You honestly think that the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ? wise up. It is a very basic game with no story/cinematics/character development, probably no voice acting, very little animation, no professional writers etc... that doesn't make it a bad game, but it should make it a cheap game since it should have been very cheap to make.

Well the same criticisms could be levelled at Sim City and look at the price of it!

Banjo

Also worth pointing out, with a Kickstarter, they don't take your money till they have full funding for the project.

And it's a very small "team". If Chris gets hit by a bus tomorrow or gets hit by serious eye-strain or wins an 8 week cruise of the med, the game gets delayed or cancelled.

It's a lot of money up front, and you don't get very much for your money other than early access. Typically a game in alpha's buy-in cost starts very low in recognition of the risk you're taking and increases as they near beta and cancellation becomes less and less likely.

Not to harp on about Subversion, but at the start it sounded great, looked intriguing and had a fantastic pedigree, then one day Chris woke up and decided it was not the game he wanted to make and poof! it was gone!

They're only getting away with this because they're f'ing rockstars of the indie gaming world

hooradiation

Magill wrote: »

You honestly think that the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ?

Shouldn't that read "You honestly think that the number I've pulled from my ass that I believe is the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ?"

johnny_ultimate

I do think there is a general subconscious sentiment amongst gamers that independent games are 'less valuable' than big AAA titles. In many ways the opposite should be true - indie developers have so much more to lose by building complex games with unique mechanics. With small teams of developers a couple of individual sales can make a big difference.

In this case I haven't purchased as is because I don't have the time for alpha / beta builds with all the other stuff worth playing out there. Also have Darwinia, Defcon et al sitting shamefully unplayed in my Steam library. I'll probably check out the finished build. But given the developers have already made over a million - and without the expensive physical product tiers you often get in crowd funding, distorting the amount of actual usable money raised - I would say their current pricing structure has proven to be savvy.

Magill

hooradiation wrote: »

Shouldn't that read "You honestly think that the number I've pulled from my ass that I believe is the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ?"

huh ? what are you on about ?

hooradiation

Magill wrote: »

huh ? what are you on about ?

That you have no clue how much a game takes to make and using it as a factor in your purchasing decisions is basically just a license to invent things

skankles

I love PA who needs great graphics. Remember Pong. Do I still get the full game upon release I didn't read the small print.

cacdit2016

Has anyone experienced the glitch where the inmates wont come into the canteen which stops the entire game?

Spunge

i love uplink and defcon (bought defqon in game and magically had an uplink CD in the box too, didnt even mention it on the cover). both had great music too. so interested in this no matter what sort of game it is.

Korvanica

Bought this on the Steam sales for a fiver.

Such a good game. Their Alpha overview videos are great too.

Currently failing miserably at creating functioning prison.

This game is well worth the money. And i'm somewhat annoyed with myself I didn't get it sooner.

Sephiroth_dude

Is it still early access lol?

Laviski

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Is it still early access lol?

the game is due for full release by end of year. In all honesty the game is finished now. The last 10 updates have really polished the game, a lot of hours poured into this. Good fun and only limited by your imagination for your prison designs.

Korvanica

Yea its currently in Alpha 33. Seems like each alpha version adds new features ad as Laviski said, polishes the game.

Newest alpha added a mail room and a system that grades Cell quality and gives inmates with good behavior nicer cells. Pretty cool stuff.