Prison Architect

humanji

Has anyone else bought into the Alpha version of Prison Architect?

It's a game by Introversion, the people behind Uplink, Darwinia and Defcon.

I was curious about it for a while, as I quite like those Theme Hospital style game, and thought I'd take a chance with getting the Alpha. And I'm loving it.

It plays like most of these sim games, you start with a blank area, put in buildings for the various facilities needed and try and keep your prisoners happy while balancing the budget. As it's the alpha, there's still plenty of work to do. But what they have so far works really well.

Sadly, there's no real tutorial (there's a basic one that gives you an idea of what to do, but it leaves out a lot of stuff) and you have to trawl through the developer forum to find info on some aspects of it (for example, it took me about half an hour to figure out to use a drain in the shower room), but again, it's the alpha so this is all to be worked on.

The mechanics of it are pretty cool. Other than a few basic shape and content requirements, the design of the prison is up to you. But it's the behavior of the prisoners that makes it fun. Keep the cooped up or not give them access to basic needs and they'll riot. Every now and again one will steal a knife from the prison kitchen and stab a fellow inmate. I even had a couple jump off the prison transport and run away, which I think was a bit unfair as I'd no chance to catch them, but it was still cool to watch.

At heart it's a fairly simple concept that has loads of room for the developers to expand on. If you've got the money to spare, I'd recommend supporting them. If not, I'd still recommend you keep an eye on it.

Their webpage has a kind of kickstarter payment option list and the obligatory "funny" developer video showing the game in action. There's also loads of Youtube videos that'll show you the game in action.

Stev_o

30 quid = no buy.

I just can't see how this is supposed to be entertaining for more then 10 minutes.

ShadowHearth

Tropico 4. Best prison simulator ever!

Kiith

It looks fantastic, and i'll almost definitely get it at launch, but €30 for an alpha is a lot. I get the idea behind it, but i can't justify forking over that much for it yet.

Reekwind

I'll probably look at this on release but €30 is too much for alpha entry. Let's se how it shapes up

Stev_o wrote: »

I just can't see how this is supposed to be entertaining for more then 10 minutes.

You've clearly never played Theme Hospital...

humanji

Reekwind wrote: »

You've clearly never played Theme Hospital...

Or any sim game. :P

€30 is definitely on the high side for an alpha, so if it wasn't for the previous games they released and knowing how addictive they are, I wouldn't have gone near this until it was finished. But it's still fun having input into the game, even if they probably will choose to ignore my women's prison porno mod idea.

Kiith

They do make some fantastic games. Still go back to Uplink every now and again, if only for the soundtrack.

Stev_o

Reekwind wrote: »

I'll probably look at this on release but €30 is too much for alpha entry. Let's se how it shapes up

You've clearly never played Theme Hospital...

I have, in fact Theme Hospital is one of the best games I ever played as a child growing up it was so addictive. But one of the massive things TH had going for it was throwing new scenarios at you, new diseases, emergencies, surgeries, David Beckham.

I don't see how IV will be able to replicate these sorta systems into PA. I think it would be more fun creating the prison then playing as a indivdual inmate and trying to survive or escape.

humanji

That would be pretty cool. I doubt they'd add that it, but someone may be able to mod it.

There is a fair amount of variety at the moment. Now, obviously it's going to be reasonably samey as it's just the alpha, but they haven't implemented things like the story missions concerning specific prisoners yet. For anyone who enjoyed the "Theme" sim games, there's no harm keeping an eye on this. It plays pretty much the same, although it does lack the humour (again it's early days).

pablomakaveli

Theres also prison tycoon which has done this whole premise already.

Reekwind

Stev_o wrote: »

I have, in fact Theme Hospital is one of the best games I ever played as a child growing up it was so addictive. But one of the massive things TH had going for it was throwing new scenarios at you, new diseases, emergencies, surgeries, David Beckham.

I don't see how IV will be able to replicate these sorta systems into PA

Yes, I can't possibly imagine how a prison might throw up various dramas and scenarios...

Stev_o

Reekwind wrote: »

Yes, I can't possibly imagine how a prison might throw up various dramas and scenarios...

Good indepth reasoning there, bravo.

Local-womanizer

Stev_o wrote: »

Reekwind wrote: »

Yes, I can't possibly imagine how a prison might throw up various dramas and scenarios...

Good indepth reasoning there, bravo.

But in fairness he has a point!

Keeping prisoners happy with accomadation, food, physical activity, re-educating, facilities.

Add in prison riots, guard strikes, political pressure on your treatment of the population, prison gangs, corrupt staff, financial restrictions etc etc and you have a game that would keep you on your toes!

Plenty of scope in a prison to keep things interesting.

Overheal

If they can make Theme Hospital awesome, they can do the same for a prison came ffs.

Reekwind

Stev_o wrote: »

Good indepth reasoning there, bravo.

The point is so obvious that it hardly needs elaboration. Prisons have, in any medium, historically been a font of drama and disasters. As the countless TV prison dramas over the years can testify to. What are vomiting waves when compared to prison riots or gang wars or overcrowding or fires/disasters, in addition to the other events mentioned by Local-womanizer?

This is particularly true given that the dev team have spoken of their intention to make use of narrative events to ram home the everyday sordid drama of running a prison and throw up dilemmas for the player

So yeah, there are plenty of reasons why this game may not be for you but a potential lack of "new scenarios" or drama shouldn't be one of them

VinLieger

Looks great and id be likely to pick it up at launch, but as said above 30 quid for an alpha is ridiculous, half it and ill maybe think about it

Dualtagh

Yeah I bought it, and I love it.
Everyone saying it's too expensive, bear in mind it's $30 not euro, also you can use 'Sacriel' as a voucher to get $5 off..I paid 18 euro for it

VinLieger

Dualtagh wrote: »

Yeah I bought it, and I love it.
Everyone saying it's too expensive, bear in mind it's $30 not euro, also you can use 'Sacriel' as a voucher to get $5 off..I paid 18 euro for it

Still ridiculous for an aplha

gizmo

VinLieger wrote: »

Still ridiculous for an aplha

You're not paying for an alpha, you're paying for the game and early access to an alpha as an added bonus. It's no different to many Kickstarters in this respect except in this instance Introversion don't need to give Kickstarter a cut nor stick to a rigid timeframe.

There's a nice little summary here: Who Needs Kickstarter? Prison Architect devs want total control

Dualtagh

VinLieger wrote: »

Still ridiculous for an aplha

Not really, 18 euro is still cheap for a game. And you're getting a full game, it's just not finished yet.

Banjo

Neither is subversion! while its unlikely PA will go the same way at this point, let's not pretend IV have never not finished a game before despite years of work going into it

SeantheMan

I was impressed by the latest developments in the game, as per the latest Alpha vid below, it looks good. Still won't be buying it till release though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP3PgRP0Vz4

Sephiroth_dude

Seeing as its in alpha I'm guessing it'll be a while till its released?

hooradiation

gizmo wrote: »

You're not paying for an alpha, you're paying for the game and early access to an alpha as an added bonus. It's no different to many Kickstarters in this respect except in this instance Introversion don't need to give Kickstarter a cut nor stick to a rigid timeframe.

I was wondering how long it'd take until someone had to point out the stunningly obvious.

VinLieger

I know how the system works i just think its still expensive for access to an alpha and to help test the game, if it was in beta the price might be reasonable.

gizmo

VinLieger wrote: »

I know how the system works i just think its still expensive for access to an alpha and to help test the game, if it was in beta the price might be reasonable.

Would you still consider it expensive if the game was $29.99 on release?

hooradiation

VinLieger wrote: »

I know how the system works i just think its still expensive for access to an alpha and to help test the game, if it was in beta the price might be reasonable.

There is something deeply fucked up going on when people are pre-ordering a game, getting access to the alpha for free as part of that pre-order and somehow the fact that it's an Alpha makes the preorder price of the game unreasonable.


What is this, I don't even....

VinLieger

gizmo wrote: »

Would you still consider it expensive if the game was $29.99 on release?

No its a full release completely ready and able to go, this is not you are helping to make the game surely that deserves a small discount?

hooradiation wrote: »

There is something deeply ****ed up going on when people are pre-ordering a game, getting access to the alpha for free as part of that pre-order and somehow the fact that it's an Alpha makes the preorder price of the game unreasonable.


What is this, I don't even....

Its not a pre-order you are buying the game at what i personally consider too much for early alpha access, thats my opinion and im not gonna change it.
Of course it makes it unreasonable, they are asking you to pay to test their game yes you also buy the game but its a cheap way for them to outsource alpha and beta testing. Im all for that i just consider it too expensive for what you are currently getting and being asked to do

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

VinLieger wrote: »

No its a full release completely ready and able to go, this is not you are helping to make the game surely that deserves a small discount?

you're not getting a discount but you are getting a free product (of sorts). you're getting to play the game and you're not required to pay anything extra than you would have to upon final release.

hooradiation

VinLieger wrote: »

Its not a pre-order

Then you might want to take that up with Introversion, who offer the following at the 30 dollar tier

Get Instant access to the Prison Architect Alpha (PC and Mac) and you also get a pre-order of the full finished game

Looks like a pre-order to me.....

Magill

gizmo wrote: »

Would you still consider it expensive if the game was $29.99 on release?

Yes, because it looks like a cheap indie game. Just looking at the the video on their website of the game and having an idea what the game is about, i wouldn't pay more than $15.

VinLieger

hooradiation wrote: »

Then you might want to take that up with Introversion, who offer the following at the 30 dollar tier



Looks like a pre-order to me.....

Semantics, youve bought the game and have access to the beta and every release up until the actual release, so call it whatever you want.

humanji

The game hasn't been released. It's a pre-order, with money going directly to the development of the game. As a bonus, people who pay get access to the alpha and beta versions as well as getting a say in the development of the game. Seriously, why is this even being argued? The discussion should be whether or not you think crowd funding is worthwhile, and in this particular case, do you feel the end result will be worth the initial cost.

VinLieger

humanji wrote: »

The game hasn't been released. It's a pre-order, with money going directly to the development of the game. As a bonus, people who pay get access to the alpha and beta versions as well as getting a say in the development of the game. Seriously, why is this even being argued? The discussion should be whether or not you think crowd funding is worthwhile, and in this particular case, do you feel the end result will be worth the initial cost.

I do think crowd funding is worthwhile, i just think the current price is too much for whats being offered right now, as i said if it was in beta i might have a different view

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

what is being offered right now is the exact same as you get from any pre order PLUS the chance to play the alpha of the game if you want

VinLieger

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

what is being offered right now is the exact same as you get from any pre order PLUS the chance to play the alpha of the game if you want

Yes it is but the key part is your helping them test the alpha of the game thats where i have a problem. For the beta? yeah this price is grand but for the alpha i disagree.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

but you get exactly the same thing either way

you get the full game

you dont have to pay 30 now and then pay extra when the game is finished

Polar101

This is a game I might buy when it's released, if it turns out to be good. I wouldn't personally pay for an alpha as I've no interest in testing unfinished products. I hope it works out for Introversion, I just don't have an interest in a business model like this. And yes I do understand the game wouldn't get released without it.

Dualtagh

Polar101 wrote: »

I wouldn't personally pay for an alpha as I've no interest in testing unfinished products.

It's not like playing an alpha requires you to log bugs. It's still very playable as is. I'm really enjoying it, worth the 18 euro I paid.

And crowdfunding is a great way to go, alot of people here are saying it's too expensive. But if you enjoy this type of game it's worth the money. They've raised over 1 million dollars so there is plenty of people that would agree with me on that.

gizmo

Magill wrote: »

Yes, because it looks like a cheap indie game. Just looking at the the video on their website of the game and having an idea what the game is about, i wouldn't pay more than $15.

I'm curious, if they had licenced Unreal Engine 3 or a similarly powerful engine, hired a decent sized team of artists, modellers and animators and made a far "prettier" game albeit with exactly the same gameplay mechanics, would you pay more for it?

Magill

gizmo wrote: »

I'm curious, if they had licenced Unreal Engine 3 or a similarly powerful engine, hired a decent sized team of artists, modellers and animators and made a far "prettier" game albeit with exactly the same gameplay mechanics, would you pay more for it?

Maybe, i mean it all depends. You honestly think that the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ? wise up. It is a very basic game with no story/cinematics/character development, probably no voice acting, very little animation, no professional writers etc... that doesn't make it a bad game, but it should make it a cheap game since it should have been very cheap to make.

gizmo

Magill wrote: »

Maybe, i mean it all depends. You honestly think that the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ? wise up.

What would it depend on? You've said it looks like a cheap indie game yet under the hood it'll be as feature complete as most other management sims out there. Therefore the question is simple, if they had pumped considerably resources into making it look prettier then would you deem it worth more?

As for the issue of whether a games pricing should be dictated by it's development costs, sure it should be a factor, but not the primary one. If it was, retail pricing would be all over the place. I mean, the budget for Star Wars: TOR was $200m, Halo 4 was $100m and Too Human was $60m. Demons Souls, on the other hand, was about about $10m. Hardly the best indicator of quality or worth of a title, is it?

Magill

gizmo wrote: »

What would it depend on? You've said it looks like a cheap indie game yet under the hood it'll be as feature complete as most other management sims out there. Therefore the question is simple, if they had pumped considerably resources into making it look prettier then would you deem it worth more?

It'll come down to whether or not i think its worth $30. This isn't something that's limited to indie games for me, i have the same attitude towards a lot of games.. which is why i'll wait for them to go on sale before buying them.

I paid less than $10 for Terraria and FTL, excellent games. Even something as great as Journey only cost $15, and thats a PSN game fs. Im also sure these games all did brilliant commercially, so their pricing structure was obviously profitable. This game looks no more costly to develop that any of those games, so to me charging $30 just comes across as greedy.

Reekwind

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

but you get exactly the same thing either way

you get the full game

No, what you are spending 30 quid on is the promise of a full game. It may never be finished (*cough*Subversion*cough*), it may never work, it may never be any good. There is a risk there

Which is why similar efforts (from Minecraft to Kickstarter) typically, albeit not always, offer discounts or a tiered structure to early customers

ShooterSF

Magill wrote: »

Maybe, i mean it all depends. You honestly think that the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ? wise up. It is a very basic game with no story/cinematics/character development, probably no voice acting, very little animation, no professional writers etc... that doesn't make it a bad game, but it should make it a cheap game since it should have been very cheap to make.

Well the same criticisms could be levelled at Sim City and look at the price of it!

Banjo

Also worth pointing out, with a Kickstarter, they don't take your money till they have full funding for the project.

And it's a very small "team". If Chris gets hit by a bus tomorrow or gets hit by serious eye-strain or wins an 8 week cruise of the med, the game gets delayed or cancelled.

It's a lot of money up front, and you don't get very much for your money other than early access. Typically a game in alpha's buy-in cost starts very low in recognition of the risk you're taking and increases as they near beta and cancellation becomes less and less likely.

Not to harp on about Subversion, but at the start it sounded great, looked intriguing and had a fantastic pedigree, then one day Chris woke up and decided it was not the game he wanted to make and poof! it was gone!

They're only getting away with this because they're f'ing rockstars of the indie gaming world

hooradiation

Magill wrote: »

You honestly think that the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ?

Shouldn't that read "You honestly think that the number I've pulled from my ass that I believe is the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ?"

johnny_ultimate

I do think there is a general subconscious sentiment amongst gamers that independent games are 'less valuable' than big AAA titles. In many ways the opposite should be true - indie developers have so much more to lose by building complex games with unique mechanics. With small teams of developers a couple of individual sales can make a big difference.

In this case I haven't purchased as is because I don't have the time for alpha / beta builds with all the other stuff worth playing out there. Also have Darwinia, Defcon et al sitting shamefully unplayed in my Steam library. I'll probably check out the finished build. But given the developers have already made over a million - and without the expensive physical product tiers you often get in crowd funding, distorting the amount of actual usable money raised - I would say their current pricing structure has proven to be savvy.

Magill

hooradiation wrote: »

Shouldn't that read "You honestly think that the number I've pulled from my ass that I believe is the cost of making a game shouldn't be considered when pricing it ?"

huh ? what are you on about ?

hooradiation

Magill wrote: »

huh ? what are you on about ?

That you have no clue how much a game takes to make and using it as a factor in your purchasing decisions is basically just a license to invent things

skankles

I love PA who needs great graphics. Remember Pong. Do I still get the full game upon release I didn't read the small print.