The Book of Truth

scidive

Hi folks, Did anybody manage to get 'the Book of Truth' produced by maria divine mercy. I recently obtained the book and I am currently half way through. I have to say its pretty heavy and daunting but interesting. Is it the real deal words from Jesus to mankind who knows for certain. If it is the real deal, this book could be the most important book since the bible itself and yet not a peep out of anybody/media....nothing. I wonder how many Catholics actually believe that Jesus will return some day and that there will be end times as revealed in the book of revelation. I have asked these questions to some Catholics and its like a scene from Fr Ted a blank stare as if this will never happen. You either believe whats written in the Bible or you don't !

What evidence have we that this book 'could be' genuine.

1. For one it took an enormous effort to write this book (why would anybody bother writing a complicated book like this even if it was for money why not write a simple book)
2. The book seems to be intelligently crafted (almost super human )touching on many and varied points that don't seem to be in conflict with church teachings.
3. The book links into many of the current problems society is having today, upheavals in the middle east , economic problems in europe, growing power of eu and un and so on.
4. The books main theme is that we are in the end times as described in the book of revelation and this ties in with the views of many Christians ( particularly american churches ) that quote Bible prophecy of the end times in great detail.
5. This book ties in with many Catholic seers such as John Leery,Ned Dougherty ect.
6. This book ties in with the events and messages of church approved apparitions fatima, medjugorje.

Is the book genuine ? its up to each individual to decide,if it is a deception it is extremely well done, but for me its very convincing .

Gumbi

scidive wrote: »

Hi folks, Did anybody manage to get 'the Book of Truth' produced by maria divine mercy. I recently obtained the book and I am currently half way through. I have to say its pretty heavy and daunting but interesting. Is it the real deal words from Jesus to mankind who knows for certain. If it is the real deal, this book could be the most important book since the bible itself and yet not a peep out of anybody/media....nothing. I wonder how many Catholics actually believe that Jesus will return some day and that there will be end times as revealed in the book of revelation. I have asked these questions to some Catholics and its like a scene from Fr Ted a blank stare as if this will never happen. You either believe whats written in the Bible or you don't !

What evidence have we that this book 'could be' genuine.

1. For one it took an enormous effort to write this book (why would anybody bother writing a complicated book like this even if it was for money why not write a simple book)
2. The book seems to be intelligently crafted (almost super human )touching on many and varied points that don't seem to be in conflict with church teachings.
3. The book links into many of the current problems society is having today, upheavals in the middle east , economic problems in europe, growing power of eu and un and so on.
4. The books main theme is that we are in the end times as described in the book of revelation and this ties in with the views of many Christians ( particularly american churches ) that quote Bible prophecy of the end times in great detail.
5. This book ties in with many Catholic seers such as John Leery,Ned Dougherty ect.
6. This book ties in with the events and messages of church approved apparitions fatima, medjugorje.

Is the book genuine ? its up to each individual to decide,if it is a deception it is extremely well done, but for me its very convincing .

None of those points are evidence.

So what?

"It's complicated, therefore genuine". An absolutely baseless assertion. Typically, a fraudster needs to put in effort in order to gain.

Super human? Hold your horses! Where? Can you back up this assertion? Again, intelligently written? So what?

It links in various events. This leads us to what conclusion? That it links in various events...

Demonstrating prophesy would be difficult - specific examples might convince me.

Again, it ties in various events? So what? This proves what?

totus tuus

Shouldn't private revelations be approved by the CDF before being circulated! In the case of MDM, that has not happened!

homer911

totus tuus wrote: »

Shouldn't private revelations be approved by the CDF before being circulated! In the case of MDM, that has not happened!

Sorry, but what on earth is CDF and MDM?

totus tuus

homer911 wrote: »

Sorry, but what on earth is CDF and MDM?

CDF - Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

MDM- Maria Divine Mercy (op's book author)

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

Shouldn't private revelations be approved by the CDF before being circulated! In the case of MDM, that has not happened!

No they can be circulated regardless, but one shouldn't waste time in submitting them to the Local Bishop and CDF for review.

Its important for Catholics to receive private revelation and prophecy with simplicity of belief, thats always been my way. At the same time prudence is neccesary when reading the messages. But its not like anyone is going to go to hell for reading a false message they didn't know was false.

Just prudence is needed thats all.

scidive

Gumbi wrote: »

None of those points are evidence.

So what?

"It's complicated, therefore genuine". An absolutely baseless assertion. Typically, a fraudster needs to put in effort in order to gain.

Super human? Hold your horses! Where? Can you back up this assertion? Again, intelligently written? So what?


Have you read the book ?

I have read fraudulent books and at most they could go to 10 to 50 pages and filled with garbage this book contains 385 pages of condensed well taught out messages intelligently put and in a logical order that don't seem to be in conflict with catholic teaching, not conclusive proof but it ticks a box again proof is in the reading.

Gumbi

It doesn't tick any box. One does not need divine inspiration to write like that. Simply being "logical, well-thought out and consistent with Catholic teachings" is evidence of nothing.

Baggio1

i got it in the post this morning, ive read a lot of the website already,, but would like to go through early parts of it....

its up to each individuale to make of it what they will.. am always loathe to dismiss see'rs unless am convinced their con artists.. but will agree with OP.. the amount of church going people who really have NOOO idea they are in end times etc,,, and yes you hear regulary at mass.. and through the mass every week,, the mention of "the coming of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ" but how many REALLLYYY believe it?.. i doubt many at all.. and yes the "father ted blank stare" is a great way to sum up the looks you get if you even mention it to clergy and laity alike,, ahahhaa funny really.

i wonder are there ANY clergy willing to actually speak about it at a sermon just what are they scared of??? they either believe in the 2nd coming or they dont!.. if they dont? - then what the heck are they doing being a priest!?

perhaps their scared of having to relate what will lead up to the 2nd coming? a world wide blood letting of christians under the ac?.. well thats what WILL happen according to revelations,,, its better to speak the truth rather then be scared of it.

Gumbi

You accept extraordinary claims at face value until proven otherwise? Wow. To me, that's indicative of an extremely gullible personality.

hellodolly

The ''current'' volume costs €15 and available in 51 countries!!! The NEXT volume is due out any day folks so it's not a one-off book written for the betterment of man really is it? It's a way for yet another clever fraudster to take money from all the guillible conspiracy theorists (this obvioulsy being a prime year for this kind of fraud, being 2012, mayan calendar rubbish etc etc) ...

I would be pulling out the dictionary, theasaurus and every article/document/nostrodamus/fairytale I could find and do the same.... and laugh.all.the.way.to.the.bank.... IF I wanted to deceive people out of their cash that it.

And ''seer's'' are really nothing more than fortune tellers for (not on behalf of) the church...and isn't fortune-telling against the catholic faith?

By the by, priests believe in GOD not anonymous storytellers SELLING their spiritual knowledge ONLINE.... The Father Ted stare is just the poor priest trying to be nice and not blurt out that you are stupid for believing is such CRAP!! Get a grip on reality people, seriously.

lmaopml

There is always some seer out there....somebody who claims knowledge of some sort or other - it's a minefield.

I think the best thing is to not concentrate too much on various 'seers', or to usher in for our own gratification the end or the beginning of the new age because we don't decide that, we all place our hope in Christ, we are careful of those who prophesy, but we ground ourselves in Christ and chose wisely. Personal revelation is not binding - Christ is. We're Christians.

newmug

There's some failry daring stuff on the website. One of the latest messages says "prepare to witness signs from Heaven". If its a fraud, obviously nothing will happen. But what if the comets colliding that it predicts actually happens?

Gumbi

newmug wrote: »

There's some failry daring stuff on the website. One of the latest messages says "prepare to witness signs from Heaven". If its a fraud, obviously nothing will happen. But what if the comets colliding that it predicts actually happens?

Unless the claims are specific in their predictions, one cannot take them seriously. Otherwise it's just confirmation bias. Even if they'd do occur, you STILL need to demonstrate their divinity.

I will concede, however, that an extraordinarily specific claim, if it were to occur, would warrant a thorough investigation.

Northclare

totus tuus wrote: »

Shouldn't private revelations be approved by the CDF before being circulated! In the case of MDM, that has not happened!

Is this quote a joke :S

totus tuus

Northclare wrote: »

Is this quote a joke :S

Why would you think so, it's a serious question!

The Vatican has warned against the writings and messages from 'seers' such as Vassula Ryden.

http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/statements/switz_ryden_comm.html

newmug

Gumbi wrote: »

Unless the claims are specific in their predictions, one cannot take them seriously. Otherwise it's just confirmation bias. Even if they'd do occur, you STILL need to demonstrate their divinity.

I will concede, however, that an extraordinarily specific claim, if it were to occur, would warrant a thorough investigation.

Well they are extremely specific!

It says two comets are going to collide near Earth, the result of which will be a huge cross, visible everywhere on Earth for a few days. Then Jesus will appear to each one of us, and do a sort of life review. After this, there will be the third world war, in which the antichrist will come out as a peace leader, and he'll take over the world and create a new world order, the downside of which is that Christianity will be outlawed, punishable by death. Then Jesus will come back and take any remaining Christians to Heaven, and kill the antichrist.

Thats the gist of it anyway. Its the end of the world type stuff. IIRC this is all supposed to happen by November this year.

As you say, even if these things DID happen, you would still need to be sure it was Jesus's doings, and not the other fellas.

Northclare wrote: »

Is this quote a joke :S

Explain what you mean?!?!?!?1

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

Why would you think so, it's a serious question!

The Vatican has warned against the writings and messages from 'seers' such as Vassula Ryden.

http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/statements/switz_ryden_comm.html

Wrong, there is nothing wrong with tlig and it has been given the imprimatur and nihil obstat. The CDF notification of 1995 is evidence of how the Church gets things wrong, like in the case of St.Faustina. Since the 1995 notification the alleged errors in the messages given to Vassula have been cleared up in the presence of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. However the 1995 remains in effect until the messages are officially approved, and that will likely be a long time unfortunately. But until then people are given the ok to read the messages.

http://www.cdf-tlig.org/ <<< this site explains it all.

ehcocmeo

MDM is an anonymous fraud who is racking in thousands from these publications.,


Anyway She/ or HE has been been proved wrong many times as things she or he has predicted did not come to pass. MDM is just a mash of other revelations.

totus tuus

Onesimus wrote: »

Wrong, there is nothing wrong with tlig and it has been given the imprimatur and nihil obstat. The CDF notification of 1995 is evidence of how the Church gets things wrong, like in the case of St.Faustina. Since the 1995 notification the alleged errors in the messages given to Vassula have been cleared up in the presence of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. However the 1995 remains in effect until the messages are officially approved, and that will likely be a long time unfortunately. But until then people are given the ok to read the messages.

http://www.cdf-tlig.org/ <<< this site explains it all.

Thanks Onesimus, that is reason why I asked in post #3 if certain messages needed Vatican approval, there are many mixed messages out there for and against, and I wanted to know either way. Thanks for the link!

Onesimus

ehcocmeo wrote: »

MDM is an anonymous fraud who is racking in thousands from these publications.,


Anyway She/ or HE has been been proved wrong many times as things she or he has predicted did not come to pass. MDM is just a mash of other revelations.

I've never really had a look at it. There are many many many false prophets out there and they fall on us like rain. But often the true ones who are few get mistaken for the Rain too instead of Sunshine so we need to be careful.

So far my favourites are Garabandal, Medjugorje and True Life in God.

totus tuus

Onesimus wrote: »

I've never really had a look at it. There are many many many false prophets out there and they fall on us like rain. But often the true ones who are few get mistaken for the Rain too instead of Sunshine so we need to be careful.

So far my favourites are Garabandal, Medjugorje and True Life in God.

Among my favs is Fatima, Akita, and Medjugorje!

scidive

ehcocmeo wrote: »

MDM is an anonymous fraud who is racking in thousands from these publications.,


Anyway She/ or HE has been been proved wrong many times as things she or he has predicted did not come to pass. MDM is just a mash of other revelations.

Thats a strong statement to make that he/she is a fraud you could be right but you would want to be 100% sure.Can you list were the predictions were wrong.

If they are genuine messages undermining the messages is interfering in the work of the holy spirit and would in fact be sinfull as souls could be lost as a result of the interference.

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

Among my favs is Fatima, Akita, and Medjugorje!

If thats the case then you will be very interested to know that one of the Churchs top Marian theologians, Rene Laurentin, was a huge believer in Medjugorje and studied the messages and that he also studied and wrote about True Life in God ( Vassula Ryden ) and went on a lot of the tlig retreats.

Also: Fr Petar Ljubicic is a central figure in the Medjugorje events. He is the priest to whom the visionary, Mirjana, will announce the Secrets ten days before they take place. He will announce them to the world three days before.
Fr Petar joined the 2011 True Life in God pilgrimage in Rome and agreed to give this interview during it. He explains how he first met Vassula.
For information on the Vatican's investigation of Vassula and True Life in God, please view http://www.cdf-tlig.org A report on the pilgrimage is available at: http://www.tligpilgrimages.org/rome.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4YvmNyBqu8

Northclare

Northclare wrote: »

totus tuus wrote: »

Shouldn't private revelations be approved by the CDF before being circulated! In the case of MDM, that has not happened!

Is this quote a joke :S

Approved by the CDF sure how can a man made organization approve revelations,it's either a revelation or not.

Come on man don't mind the hierarchy they only approve anything that satisfies their selfishness and egos...

mdebets

scidive wrote: »

Thats a strong statement to make that he/she is a fraud you could be right but you would want to be 100% sure.Can you list were the predictions were wrong.

Can you proof that any predictions was true?

scidive wrote: »

If they are genuine messages undermining the messages is interfering in the work of the holy spirit and would in fact be sinfull as souls could be lost as a result of the interference.

But if the messages were genuine, isn't MDM interfering in the work of the holy spirit and acting in fact sinfull as souls could be lost as a result of the interference, as she is selling the message, rather than giving it away for free.

Northclare

mdebets wrote: »

scidive wrote: »

Thats a strong statement to make that he/she is a fraud you could be right but you would want to be 100% sure.Can you list were the predictions were wrong.

Can you proof that any predictions was true?

scidive wrote: »

If they are genuine messages undermining the messages is interfering in the work of the holy spirit and would in fact be sinfull as souls could be lost as a result of the interference.

But if the messages were genuine, isn't MDM interfering in the work of the holy spirit and acting in fact sinfull as souls could be lost as a result of the interference, as she is selling the message, rather than giving it away for free.

That's a powerful response

scidive

mdebets wrote: »

Can you proof that any predictions was true?


The main theme of this book is a warning of things to come. As a warning is about further events they cannot be proven as yet.

No doubt I and many others will be looking at events in time to come and assess whether the books predictions are correct or not. Such events I am keeping an eye on are

who will succeed the current pope

will events in middle east escalate into a full scale war

will china and russia get involved in this war

will europe/usa begin to crack down on christianity make many of its beliefs illegal

scidive

But if the messages were genuine, isn't MDM interfering in the work of the holy spirit and acting in fact sinfull as souls could be lost as a result of the interference, as she is selling the message, rather than giving it away for free.[/QUOTE]

Most forms of messages of MDM are given out freely, they are free to view on the website, they are free to view on u tube, each message can be printed out for free in pdf format onto any printer as many copies as you want and you can even download the full e book for free and print off as many as you want and give to whom ever you want.

The cost of publishing and printing each book does not come cheap just buy an ink cartridge and you won't be long finding out how expensive it is to print a book of 385 pages. For those that can afford it they can buy the book and If there is any profit made on the book I imagine its used to maintain the website and to spread the messages even more.

Rather than this person interfering in the messages he or she has managed to impressively ( almost superhuman again or as some would argue divine intervention ) spread the messages world wide translating into different languages anything from Armenian to chinese, german to Arabic.

noctis

scidive wrote: »

But if the messages were genuine, isn't MDM interfering in the work of the holy spirit and acting in fact sinfull as souls could be lost as a result of the interference, as she is selling the message, rather than giving it away for free.
Most forms of messages of MDM are given out freely, they are free to view on the website, they are free to view on u tube, each message can be printed out for free in pdf format onto any printer as many copies as you want and you can even download the full e book for free and print off as many as you want and give to whom ever you want.

The cost of publishing and printing each book does not come cheap just buy an ink cartridge and you won't be long finding out how expensive it is to print a book of 385 pages. For those that can afford it they can buy the book and If there is any profit made on the book I imagine its used to maintain the website and to spread the messages even more.

Rather than this person interfering in the messages he or she has managed to impressively ( almost superhuman again or as some would argue divine intervention ) spread the messages world wide translating into different languages anything from Armenian to chinese, german to Arabic.

so how much do you get for each sale yourself?

hellodolly

Scidive you are determined to believe in a website and a book that costs 15 euro without even knowing the real name of the person/company that is behind it all. Surely you know this is gulibility at it's purest?

I have seen this book and held it in my own hands and in fact read some of it, is just a catalogue of all the ''messages'' that were received last year and of course this year's collection will be published very shortly, just before The Warning in fact (wow good timing) ... It could not have cost any more than say 7 euro each to produce/get to the seller's hands. So already a profit of 8 euro per unit. The website obviously cost thousands to build initially and has a very good selling section using visa etc to be able to pay for this book. These things costs thousands to run; it's not a one-off payment, it's an ongoing concern...a business if you will. The website is updated daily with ''messages'' and some-one/a group of people run the sales dept....So what married mother sitting at home with her two little children while the husband goes out to work in his menial job can afford such expenses?

"The European's messages" as all the religious conspiracy theorists like to call "him/her" is just yet another garden path that you all want to be led up for what ever reason you have or don't have. What date in November is this all supposed to happen on again? What happens when this date comes and goes and there are no comets meeting in the sky and no big red cross to look up at? and Jesus doesn't come to visit you? Will you come on here then and say you were wrong? That you made a mistake and you shouldn't have spread lies in the name of Jesus? Because that is what I will be saying to the person I know who's going around doing it.

Even if a war broke out/an earthquake kills people/a volcano explodes...the last two happen obviously because of nature - relating these events to any kind of religious event/doomsday prophacy has long been known to be the beliefs only of mad-men and wars break out all the time, mainly to do WITH religion!! Nothin gets the bombs flying like two religious fanatical groups falling out with each other.

I'm really looking forward to Christmas this year...because by then this nonsense with be over and done with and I won't have to listen to this crazy talk in my own home ... until the next "end of the world seer" comes along!! (believe me...I've heard all this crap before!!!)

Onesimus

I think all the same ( true or false I've never read the messages ) we have to admire scidives simple faith. It's something I wish I had. At the same time it's important that we be grounded in the faith in order that we may be able to see what messages come from Jesus, Mary, the angels and Saints and what messages don't.

For me I just simply believe until I've read them and see for myself. There are many red flags of a false revelation but with regards to MDM I wouldnt know as I have not read them. Scidive I admire your simple faith. Is it possible you can show me the website where these messages are? I would like to read them myself.

hellodolly

Oh yeah, and I decided to google the date 13/11/2012 and guess what? an eclipse of the sun is due on that date. Another happy (and planned of course) coincidence for the profiteers of the website/book. This eclipse happens every 117 days and four hours according to what I read so it cannot be viewed as a message or a sign from God...just putting it out there right now before some psychotic zealot tries to say it's a miracle of Jesus or something.

The website is called thesecondwarning.com and there is a link to buy the book at the bottom right-hand corner.

Surely a simple faith would imply you simply believe in the Catholic faith and it's teachings? That what the church tells you is what you should believe? I certainly wouldn't include believing in doomsday rubbish found online written by God know's who as simple faith.... sounds more like people who are bored with their religion and are looking for more than a ''simple'' belief to me.

totus tuus

Onesimus wrote: »

I think all the same ( true or false I've never read the messages ) we have to admire scidives simple faith. It's something I wish I had. At the same time it's important that we be grounded in the faith in order that we may be able to see what messages come from Jesus, Mary, the angels and Saints and what messages don't.

For me I just simply believe until I've read them and see for myself. There are many red flags of a false revelation but with regards to MDM I wouldnt know as I have not read them. Scidive I admire your simple faith. Is it possible you can show me the website where these messages are? I would like to read them myself.

http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/

The e-book which you can dl in pdf format!

http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/messages/e-books-volumes/

totus tuus

An evaluation of Maria Divine Mercy - not good!

http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false199.htm

Onesimus

I've read enough. . . I'm no self styled expert on the matter but I've read enough. . .

Anyhow, what pains me is that self styled theologians on the internet, creating their own websites in order to bash private revelations really is distasteful because the fact that they miss true ones really does destroy their credibility as so called ''miracle hunters'' etc. Such things as this should be submitted to the Church authorities, decided by them and in most cases be submitted to the Bishop and seers have a spiritual director. I don't see this in MDM.

But I also take these ''catholic planet'' websites with a pinch of salt too.

Surely a simple faith would imply you simply believe in the Catholic faith and it's teachings? That what the church tells you is what you should believe? I certainly wouldn't include believing in doomsday rubbish found online written by God know's who as simple faith.... sounds more like people who are bored with their religion and are looking for more than a ''simple'' belief to me.

God continues to speak to us, as his loving children we have simple faith in his prophets ( the true ones hopefully ). Sometimes we have faith in false ones, but when we later find out its false we admit this and we move on. No big deal. In order that we recognize the false ones its important we become grounded in our faith. But sometimes the so-called religious zealots often fail to recognize the true ones and end up persecuting them also so that is something we need to keep in mind too. There are religious zealots who believe in false revelations but there are also religious zealots who persecute the true ones. Its a windy road.

I don't have time to read every private revelation or prophecy under the sun. But so far my favourites are Fatima, Garabandal, Medjugorje, Poem of the Man God and True Life in God.

God has not just closed his mouth with the Bible and Sacred Tradition and so on. He continues to speak to us. He continues to call us back to himself. But often we fail to miss the rose amongst the many thorns of false prophets. Fatima ( now approved ) was not even believed by some bishops in its 7 years and still is not by some people. So if bishops can miss a true revelation what about us uneducated puppies? Garabandal is still not recognized nor is Medjugorje or others. we'll see anyway how it all unfolds.

But . . . have a simple faith, if it turns out to be false don't worry, its not like your goin to hell or anything for it.

totus tuus

Here is another site that lists messages from several seers from around the world, I would use discernment when reading them. The site owner used to include MDM messages but removed them for some reason.

http://afterthewarning.com/

Baggio1

hello dolly.. please dont churn out that ol' false chesnut that all the all knowing drunks tend to use when they suddenly decide they know something after 19 pints and shout "religeon causes wars!!"

which wars??.. korean war? nothin to do with religeon, ww1? nothing to do with religeon, ww2? nothing to do with religeon, vietnam war? nothing to do with religeon, napoleonic war? nothing to do with religeon!! man am running out of wars here!! crimean war? nothing to do with religeon, french/indian war and usa war of independance?.. nothing to do with war, 1st gulf war? nothing to do with religeon, second gulf war and afganisthan? nothing to do with religeon.

as i say,,,theres a huge list of the major wars and there are loads more which had NOTHING to do with religeon, its an assertion of used by those who just hate religeon, and well MDVM is a great new target for those people... personally i find it fascinating and accurate, what happens in the end we should see soon enough or not at all

newmug

hellodolly wrote: »

Oh yeah, and I decided to google the date 13/11/2012 and guess what? an eclipse of the sun is due on that date. Another happy (and planned of course) coincidence for the profiteers of the website/book. This eclipse happens every 117 days and four hours according to what I read so it cannot be viewed as a message or a sign from God...

A solar eclipse that happens every 117 days? I never saw it before, it must be fairly low-key! Even if this IS fake, I doubt anyone would try to claim that a barely noticable, regular, natural event was a supernatural one. I'm still undecided.

Benny_Cake

For all his craziness, I'll give Harold Camping some credit, he publicly held himself up to humiliation and ridicule by putting his name into the public domain with regard to his "prophecies". This "Maria Divine Mercy" individual, on the other hand, is hiding behind a cloak of anonymity and a whois lookup reveals that whoever set it up is paying a few bucks extra to remain anonymous. Ironically, there is a section on the website devoted to "false prophets"!

Every generation seems to have it's own group of people who are convinced that the end is near. Best not to worry about it and take Jesus at His word:

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Onesimus

I don't know much about MDM but . . . to be fair some mystics do not make themselves public for humble reasons and some do make themselves public. Each mystic has different temperments I guess.

That's all I'm sayin. I neither support nor condemn MDM. But I have read enough to make my own mind up.

scidive

hellodolly wrote: »

Scidive you are determined to believe in a website and a book that costs 15 euro without even knowing the real name of the person/company that is behind it all. Surely you know this is gulibility at it's purest?

I have seen this book and held it in my own hands and in fact read some of it, is just a catalogue of all the ''messages'' that were received last year and of course this year's collection will be published very shortly, just before The Warning in fact (wow good timing) ... It could not have cost any more than say 7 euro each to produce/get to the seller's hands. So already a profit of 8 euro per unit. The website obviously cost thousands to build initially and has a very good selling section using visa etc to be able to pay for this book. These things costs thousands to run; it's not a one-off payment, it's an ongoing concern...a business if you will. The website is updated daily with ''messages'' and some-one/a group of people run the sales dept....So what married mother sitting at home with her two little children while the husband goes out to work in his menial job can afford such expenses?

"The European's messages" as all the religious conspiracy theorists like to call "him/her" is just yet another garden path that you all want to be led up for what ever reason you have or don't have. What date in November is this all supposed to happen on again? What happens when this date comes and goes and there are no comets meeting in the sky and no big red cross to look up at? and Jesus doesn't come to visit you? Will you come on here then and say you were wrong? That you made a mistake and you shouldn't have spread lies in the name of Jesus? Because that is what I will be saying to the person I know who's going around doing it.

Even if a war broke out/an earthquake kills people/a volcano explodes...the last two happen obviously because of nature - relating these events to any kind of religious event/doomsday prophacy has long been known to be the beliefs only of mad-men and wars break out all the time, mainly to do WITH religion!! Nothin gets the bombs flying like two religious fanatical groups falling out with each other.

I'm really looking forward to Christmas this year...because by then this nonsense with be over and done with and I won't have to listen to this crazy talk in my own home ... until the next "end of the world seer" comes along!! (believe me...I've heard all this crap before!!!)

Hellodolly,

I might be gullible reading these messages, this person could be a great con artist and if they are I am out of pocket by €20 but I still liked the book and if this person meant it or not touched on many truths of the christian faith such rejection of new age spiritualism, fasting and self denial, humility necessary to enter heaven, the quest for wealth and many more truths spread throughout the book which I find are a great read and are well grounded advice for any christian.

I’m aware they are many false and failed prophesy down throughout the ages and even more so now with the internet and this could be another one so a Christian should not allow any false outcome to any supposed messages effect their faith.

However they are signs of the times that makes me take messages such as these a bit more seriously and these messages could just as easily be genuine so it would be irresponsible to ignore them my attitude is to read them and if in the future these messages begin to prove prophetic well it would be time to build a bunker and take out the Rosary beeds.

By the way where did you hear of the November date for the great warning as I haven’t come across it.

scidive

Are attacks against the current Pope increasing verifying some of the messages. Here is a recent message on the attack on the current Pope and also warning about changing the teachings of the Catholic church

May 26th, 2012 Today I ask of My followers, My dearest daughter, to pray hard for My beloved Vicar Pope Benedict XVI . He, My Holy Servant is under terrible persecution behind closed doors in the Holy See.I have told you before that the Masonic Groups who have a vice like grip inside The Vatican want My Beloved Pope out. And they intend to oust him form the Seat of Peter using devious means. He will, as I have told you in the past, have to flee for he will have little choice.This time is short. You must pray hard that he can stay as long as possible for as soon as he leaves, the imposter, the False Prophet, will take his place.

July 30th, 2012 Those dissidents in My Church on earth, who claim to be creating a new type of following in the name of the Catholic Church, but who deny My teachings, are being tempted by Satan who wants to destroy My Church. He, the evil one, has already caused terrible sin to corrupt My Church and now wants to hammer in the final nails when he will crucify My Church and, in turn, cast into Hell those sacred servants of Mine who desecrate the Word of God by facilitating the acceptance of sin among God’s children

And here in the Gaurdian on 5th October we see an attack the Pope and a call to change church canon laws

• guardian.co.uk, Friday 5 October 2012 15.25 BST

Catholic theologian preaches revolution to end church's 'authoritarian' rule

Hans Küng urges confrontation from the grassroots to unseat pope and force radical reform at Vatican

Hans Küng is appealing to priests and churchgoers to confront the Catholic hierarchy, which he says is corrupt, lacking credibility and apathetic to the real concerns of the church's members.

"The unconditional obedience demanded of bishops who swear their allegiance to the pope when they make their holy oath is almost as extreme as that of the German generals who were forced to swear an oath of allegiance to Hitler," he said.
The Vatican made a point of crushing any form of clerical dissent, he added. "The rules for choosing bishops are so rigid that as soon as candidates emerge who, say, stand up for the pill, or for the ordination of women, they are struck off the list." The result was a church of "yes men", almost all of whom unquestioningly toed the line.
"The only way for reform is from the bottom up," said Küng, 84, who is a priest. "The priests and others in positions of responsibility need to stop being so subservient, to organise themselves and say that there are certain things that they simply will not put up with anymore."
Far from putting the brakes on his prolific theological output, Küng has recently distilled the ideas of Weltethos – which seeks to create a global code of behaviour, or a globalisation of ethics – into a capricious musical libretto. Mixing narrative with excerpts from the teachings of Confucianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam and Christianity, Küng's writings have been incorporated into a major symphonic work by the British composer Jonathan Harvey that will have its London premiere on Sunday at the Southbank Centre.
Küng says the musical work, like the foundation, is an attempt to emphasise what the religions of the world have in common rather than what divides them. Weltethos was founded in the early 1990s as an attempt to bring the religions of the world together by emphasising what they have in common rather than what divides them. It has drawn up a code of behavioural rules that it hopes one day will be as universally acceptable as the UN. The work's aim is arguably high-minded – Harvey described the demanding task of writing a score for the text as an "awe-inspring responsibility". But Küng, who has won the support of leading figures including Henry Kissinger, Kofi Annan, Jacques Rogge, Desmond Tutu, Mary Robinson and Shirin Ebadi, insisted its aims were grounded in basic necessity." At a time of paradigm change in the world, we need a common set of principles, most obvious among them the Golden Rule, in which Confucius taught to not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself," he said

Onesimus

There is certainly a lot of tension in the vatican and Church at the moment. A lot are just like Hans Kung.

The Path to Christ sure is a narrow one indeed. Many of us show up for Church on Sunday, many of us feel a vocation to priesthood, but how many of us are actually on ''that'' narrow path? Here is a priest and ''theologian'' who rejects a fundamental and easy laid out dogma of the faith. He ignores the heretics of old like Mark the Gnostic who St.Irenaeus wrote about in the 2nd century about how foolish mark was to think he could ordain women as priests and so on. All these errors are just fresh ones with new labels coming at ya using ''semantics'' but semantics may change our perceptions of the truth but they do not change realities. That reality is that the Church has no authority to ordain women because it is something instiuted by Christ himself.

Scidive, how long has ''MDM'' been going for now? and has she got a spiritual director of any sort? and has she ever submitted her writings to the Local Bishop and CDF?

I ask as a brother with an open mind.

God bless

scidive

Onesimus wrote: »

There is certainly a lot of tension in the vatican and Church at the moment. A lot are just like Hans Kung.

The Path to Christ sure is a narrow one indeed. Many of us show up for Church on Sunday, many of us feel a vocation to priesthood, but how many of us are actually on ''that'' narrow path? Here is a priest and ''theologian'' who rejects a fundamental and easy laid out dogma of the faith. He ignores the heretics of old like Mark the Gnostic who St.Irenaeus wrote about in the 2nd century about how foolish mark was to think he could ordain women as priests and so on. All these errors are just fresh ones with new labels coming at ya using ''semantics'' but semantics may change our perceptions of the truth but they do not change realities. That reality is that the Church has no authority to ordain women because it is something instiuted by Christ himself.

Scidive, how long has ''MDM'' been going for now? and has she got a spiritual director of any sort? and has she ever submitted her writings to the Local Bishop and CDF?

I ask as a brother with an open mind.

God bless

Hi Onesimus

There sure seems to be rumblings going on in the vatican. I must look into the recent Popes Butler case and see if anything of interest is found. With regard to MDM I think she started about november 2010 and she has some spiritual guidance heres what the website states,

. This site has been set up to publish a series of divine messages which a Roman Catholic married mother of a young family living in Europe says she has been receiving from Jesus Christ, the Holy Trinity as well as by the Virgin Mary who she says wishes to be known by a new title “Mother of Salvation”.
The woman wishes to be known by the name Maria Divine Mercy and says that it is the wish of Jesus that she remains anonymous to protect her family and to avoid any disraction from the messages. The term Divine Mercy is used in her name because The Warning, a supernatural event, an act of Divine Intervention to save the world by God, is a manifestation of The Divine Mercy.
The messages have been received by her since November 2010 and are still ongoing. Over 450 have been received along with 66 Crusade Prayers. According to independent theologians the messages reinforce the Catholic teachings of faith and morals. Maria has been given the support of a number of believers including priests and Christian volunteers from various countries, to enable them to be revealed quickly to the world. They are, she says, being revealed to the world for its own good and that of others.
Whether officially approved by the Church or otherwise, through perchance worthy of pious credence, Catholic individuals are not morally obliged to espouse the messages emanating from any source of private revelation (e.g. apparitions, interior locutions and so forth). Unlike public revelation i.e. Sacred Scripture0 the Church herself has no providential protection in the realm of private revelations
Maria was told by Jesus that she is the 7th Messenger, the 7th Angel sent to reveal to the world the contents of the Seals in the Book of Revelation which can only be opened by the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. He will open the Seals and reveal, in advance, the contents. Maria has to publish them as each Seal is opened. He has told her she is the end time prophet.
At present Maria is receiving spiritual guidance from the Catholic Church

totus tuus

MDM is Irish, you can listen to her story in the following radio inteview! Some of her messages are in line with other visionaries, including St. Faustina in regards the Warning.



http://en.gloria.tv/?media=275942

newmug

totus tuus wrote: »

MDM is Irish, you can listen to her story in the following radio inteview! Some of her messages are in line with other visionaries, including St. Faustina in regards the Warning.



http://en.gloria.tv/?media=275942

Does anyone else find that it cuts off at 15.56, just as MDM is about to say what sins hurt Jesus the most? She gets out abortion, but then it goes silent for a few seconds.

Onesimus

newmug wrote: »

Does anyone else find that it cuts off at 15.56, just as MDM is about to say what sins hurt Jesus the most? She gets out abortion, but then it goes silent for a few seconds.

Yeah that happened me. I'm listening now before bed.

Onesimus

I dunno. Listened to the whole interview. Sounds interesting. It looks like she went to the Archbishop who naturally has a ''wait and see'' attitude, which is usually the case when something is predicted to happen. If it happens then they investigate further. She is also the third person I've heard describe God the Father as neither young nor old, and one of those persons is an approved apparition of the Church to a Nun in Italy. What I am careful about is that sometimes false mystics do tend to mimic the real ones and borrow from them in their writings mix mashed with something else. It's extremely difficult but it is important for us to be open at the same time.

I found that interesting. What I find a little shaky is that there does not seem to be any kind of theological study done upon the messages by a priest who would be very very learned in that area. This does make me wonder a little. I feel that Maria should at least ( if she hasnt already ) submit her messages for theological study. Visit a psychologist, pay an extremely good exorcist a visit and do all this just incase it isnt from God. The Devil is clever and he can give people stigmata and he can also create what would seem to be miracles of healing too.

But simplicity is the key, and I guess I thank Jesus for MDM but I'm gonna stick with what I have at the moment.

Thanks scidive for the interesting messages.

God bless