What do you think?

LegacyUser

Guys,
Going un-reg for this....I really need a big rant I'm so angry right now so please bear with me and thanks in advance for reading.

Bit of backround first, I'm a mother of 2 under three. My first boy is almost 3 and my youngest boy is 6 months. I have breastfed the two so OH has never had a sleepless night and while I didn't lose much sleep with the first as he was a great sleeper, the second has never slept trough and wakes anything up to 10 times a night so to say I'm tired is an understatement. I'm worn out and exhausted!

So, OH has had 5 weekends away since my first pregnancy, 3 stags and 2 boys weekends away. I've never moaned about the boys weekends away as he works hard so he deserves a break...as do I.

I have never had a weekend away since my first, I've missed all the hen nights because of either pregnancy or breastfeeding and obviously a girls night away has been out of the question.

So, after a very stressful 6 months with my new baby (who is high maintenance, as much as I love him to bits), I've been so depressed and so wrecked that my mum and sister suggested next Jan that we should all have a long weekend away. Thurs to Monday.
I told OH last night and he went mad because he is expected to take 3 annual leave days 'just for me to take a holiday'!!!!

I am so, so angry. Things have been **** between us for a long time but this has really drove me over the edge. I really feel like I hate him and I think he is being so selfish.

Is he? Or am I expecting too much to expect him to use his precious days?

Thanks for reading

xzanti

From what you've said, it sounds like He's gotten too used to having you (excuse the expression) chained to the sink..

He has literally had his cake and eaten it for the last while and now his boat is in danger of being rocked..

You need to put your foot down.. How you allow yourself to be treated during these early years of your kids' lives is what will shape the future for you both..

Did you refresh his memory about all the Stag weekends he went on in the last while?

ABajaninCork

Too bloody right I'd 'refresh' his memory!!:mad::mad::mad: It's OK for him to have his boy's nights away, but not OK for you to take a break??

I'd book the time away anyway, and present him with a fait accompli. I wouldn't ask him. I'd TELL him!! If he doesn't book the leave, then I'd go anyway. Leave the kids with your Mum, and take a friend or a sister.

Daisy M

It does sound as though he is been selfish but there are a few things that need to be considered. Is it easy for him to take holidays in Jan, does he get the minimum 4 weeks hols or is he able to accrue time off, does he ever need to take hols for other commitments ie if the children are sick or if he farms?

I think you should show him your post and let him see the comparisons, you have had time to think of these he probably hasn't, however thats no excuse he should be able to see you need a break and be pleased that you have the opportunity to get one.

Daisy M

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Too bloody right I'd 'refresh' his memory!!:mad::mad::mad: It's OK for him to have his boy's nights away, but not OK for you to take a break??

I'd book the time away anyway, and present him with a fait accompli. I wouldn't ask him. I'd TELL him!! If he doesn't book the leave, then I'd go anyway. Leave the kids with your Mum, and take a friend or a sister.

Eh no, the mum is planning on going too, why should she lose out, if he can't take time off in Jan pin him down to a date when he can or go friday to sunday when there is no excuse for him but do it twice!!

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies,
I'm even more mad knowing I'm right haha.
Just to be clear though, I have told him in no uncertain terms that I am going. I may have to arrange childcare around him but it will be done!
He has had it so easy and never had both kids for longer than a couple of hours. He doesn't know how bloody tough it is.
I really thought after all the tears and tantrums (me, not the kids ) of the last 6 months, he would be totally behind me having a well deserved break but all he is worried about is his precious annual leave, which he never takes anyway, he always ends up having a few left over at the end of each year which he uses to do things for himself, not me or the kids!!

Pataman

Wow what a dinosaur. A relationship that works is a equal partnership. You sound like an employee of your husband.
Long hard reality-check chat needed for him.
He needs to cop on or resentment will build and he will lose you.
Tell him you need a break. Simple as.
If he still moans well then you need to decide(and tell him) if you want him in your life.

ABajaninCork

Daisy M wrote: »

Eh no, the mum is planning on going too, why should she lose out, if he can't take time off in Jan pin him down to a date when he can or go friday to sunday when there is no excuse for him but do it twice!!

Missed the bit about Mum. I still think she should book and go though!

xzanti

Don't leave the kids with ANYONE except their Father OP... otherwise he just gets a weekend to himself in the bargain..

He needs to start doing his bit.. Fair's fair!!!

handlemaster

From male perspective it would be annoying to get the list of things you have done over three years. i.e. stag nights etc. But what I would say is what he said was unexceptable. Three days to spend with your OH and kids, isnt alot to give. What would he be planning to do on his holidays on an average year ?

xzanti

handlemaster wrote: »

From male perspective it would be annoying to get the list of things you have done over three years. i.e. stag nights etc.

Why?

meeeeh

I think he is very selfish. If there are genuine reasons that he can't get holidays in January you should be still able to reach a compromise and go in December, February or March.

However I also think you are not telling us everything. I suspect there are other problems. I also don't understand why wouldn't you be able to have girls nights out or hen weekends. I've done both while being pregnant or when I was breastfeeding. My partner works extremely long hours but there was never a problem if I spent weekend away from home or if I went out. You need a break and you should have a break and he should be understanding and supporting. But don't complain about him taking 5 weekends away in the last 3 years because I'm positive you could take some too.

handlemaster

xzanti wrote: »

Why?

no guy wants to hear that.

Lollipops23

handlemaster wrote: »

no guy wants to hear that.

and no woman wants to be told she can't go on a minibreak with her family because it doesn't suit him and his annual leave.

he brought this on himself, I couldn't give a toss about "not wanting to hear" all the amazing fun stuff he's done in the last year.

handlemaster

Lollipops23 wrote: »

and no woman wants to be told she can't go on a minibreak with her family because it doesn't suit him and his annual leave.

he brought this on himself, I couldn't give a toss about "not wanting to hear" all the amazing fun stuff he's done in the last year.

if you read what I wrote. I don't aggree with his attitude but I also won't want to hear about how I had a normal life by meeting my friends.

LegacyUser

Before I give my 2 cents, I am a woman and now seperated from my daughters Dad so am not biased on either side here....
From your description of the situation, it sounds like your partner is not very involved in the care of either of his children. Do you encourage him to participate or did you naturally take the role of parent?
Becoming a parent is difficult, and even more so if you are seconded by the stronger parent (mom or dad!) and if you took charge from the beginning and even bonding like feeding was you alone, he may well over time have given up on trying to get involved in the child care role as this is your area?
His overreaction to minding the kids at this point may well stem from a fear of actually having to mind them for a couple of days on his own? Does he know their routine, can he make bottles, change nappies, put the buggy together?
If this is the case, you need to encourage him to get involved more in a little by little and build his role as an equal parent. If he doesnt want to be a Dad, you may have a bigger issue at play.

I am not kidding but it wasn't until i split up with my ex OH that we both realised how little exposure to child minding he had, despite our daughter being nearly 5.... I had to bring him up to speed on everything so wwe could share parent effectively. I am just playing deveils advocate here, it may not be laziness but genuine anxiety.

LegacyUser

I think your OH needs a reality check. You certainly do deserve the break after the couple of years you've had!

I will say however, I think you've let him get used to this situation where there wasn't much expected of him. I too breastfed my baby girl for 18 months, and I managed 2 weekends and a couple of nights out during that time with no ill effects on the breastfeeding.

Definitely needs to be more give and take with the child rearing here though

beks101

handlemaster wrote: »

Lollipops23 wrote: »

and no woman wants to be told she can't go on a minibreak with her family because it doesn't suit him and his annual leave.

he brought this on himself, I couldn't give a toss about "not wanting to hear" all the amazing fun stuff he's done in the last year.

if you read what I wrote. I don't aggree with his attitude but I also won't want to hear about how I had a normal life by meeting my friends.

And she's not allowed a normal life with her friends?

That's exactly the point

meeeeh

beks101 wrote: »

And she's not allowed a normal life with her friends?

That's exactly the point

I don't buy that. Her husband would not have to take holidays if she would take Saturday and Sunday off. She claims that it wasn't possible due to pregnancy or breastfeeding which is very unlikely. It is fairly easy to express or to take nights off when you are pregnant.

As I said before she clearly needs break, but if a(ny) partner can't get a weekend night off in three years there are a lot more serious problems in a relationship then somebody not wanting to take 3 days off work. I think her partner is very selfish not to want to take holidays anyway and I'd just go ahead and book the break and let him organize the childcare but I also don't think that his "days off" can be used as ammunition against him.

Ellsbells

You created your own stick there to beat your back with.... There were ways around having time i.e. more than a couple of hours away from your kids even when you are breast feeding....

He is in the wrong but maybe cos he never had to cope, he doesnt think he can cope. I would start leaving him for longer periods now with the kids. Try an evening, then an overnight etc etc

movingsucks

meeeeh wrote:

It is fairly easy to express

Sorry but No, not for everyone it is. It used to take me an hour to get 1-2 oz.

shinikins

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't buy that. Her husband would not have to take holidays if she would take Saturday and Sunday off. She claims that it wasn't possible due to pregnancy or breastfeeding which is very unlikely. It is fairly easy to express or to take nights off when you are pregnant.

It would be a long weekend, in the OP it states Thursday to Monday(also, who's to say he doesn't work weekends?). Not every woman can express milk in large quantities, and breast milk wouldn't last 5 days in the fridge. As for her not being able to take some tome out during pregnancy-who's to say she didn't have health issues which prevented her going anywhere, many women have problems during their pregnancies.

OP, if I were in your shoes I would list exactly how many days off I'd had over the last several years, how many sleepless nights, how many trips to the doctor, nappies changed, bottles made....He needs a good dose of reality. Yes, he is going out to work, but you are working fulltime and deserve a break just as much as him!

Ellsbells

But sure he took holidays from work to go on his own holidays?? Why can't he take them to give his wife a break??

crazygeryy

handlemaster wrote: »

xzanti wrote: »

Why?

no guy wants to hear that.

oh Jesus just go run now while your balls are still in tact.they will devour you.

op tell him your going, leave him a list of things to do, as in how to look after the kids and GO.throw him in the deep end.

Gooner111

Hey OP.

He is being selfish! Prehaps he has gotten used to the situation but even if that were the case you going away for first time in years shouldn't be getting that reaction... just down right mean!! You mention things have been **** for awhile now. With two young kids there can be lots of stress, for both of you. Sit him down and talk to him and see if you two can't work on things and make an effort on your relationship - maybe see a counsellor if needed. He shouldn't be reacting like that!.

PS I am a father to two girls. Was with the mother of my second daughter for 8 years. I am the type who isn't into going away much so besides the family trips I only had the odd weekend (think there was 3 in the 8 years) away for myself. It never cost her any annual leave. She on the other hand loved travel. She often went away, couple of times per year and usually at the expense of my annual leave but it gave me personal time for myself and with my girls ! At the start it didn't bother me taking time off work but towards the end of the relationship (when we weren't getting on) it did because when things weren't going well I didn't want to do much with her let alone help her to have fun. Still I never said No to her requests...just moaned. That is why I suggested working on the relationship because he shouldn't be reacting like he is.

handlemaster

beks101 wrote: »

And she's not allowed a normal life with her friends?

That's exactly the point

It should hardly be a shock to her she has known him for at least 3 years & 10months. He just didn't turn inconsiderate over night. He has had 3 weekends away each year (not alot). Breast feeding is a personal choice. If she really wanted time off try bottle feeding thereby all the work could be charged equally.

Lollipops23

handlemaster wrote: »

It should hardly be a shock to her she has known him for at least 3 years & 10months. He just didn't turn inconsiderate over night. He has had 3 weekends away each year (not alot). Breast feeding is a personal choice. If she really wanted time off try bottle feeding thereby all the work could be charged equally.

Breastfeeding is something done by a mother who wants to give her child the best start in life; there a numerous reasons for someone wanting to do it. Unfortunately you are tied to it for as long as you want to do it, it's not always possible to express enough to keep a baby fed for 3 days in advance (she's not a cow).

The OP isn't asking for a lot; she's not darting off to spain for 2 weeks with the girls, it's a long weekend.

OP, if he isn't prepared to give you a couple of days off you may need to have a talk about priorities and needs. A frazzled, wrecked and pissed off Mammy isn't a good Mammy, so you need this break.

handlemaster

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Breastfeeding is something done by a mother who wants to give her child the best start in life; there a numerous reasons for someone wanting to do it. Unfortunately you are tied to it for as long as you want to do it, it's not always possible to express enough to keep a baby fed for 3 days in advance (she's not a cow).

The OP isn't asking for a lot; she's not darting off to spain for 2 weeks with the girls, it's a long weekend.

OP, if he isn't prepared to give you a couple of days off you may need to have a talk about priorities and needs. A frazzled, wrecked and pissed off Mammy isn't a good Mammy, so you need this break.

Colostrum is produced only for a few days after birth. But after that its just as good to give a baby formula. Theres no evidence to prove breast milk gives your baby any more of a better start after these initial few days of breast feeding. But I aggree with you its not alot to give as I stated before a few days so that the mother of your childern can have a break. But in order to get this break more regular, so he gets comfortable looking after his kids formula is the only way to go.

Ickle Magoo

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curlzy

handlemaster wrote: »

Theres no evidence to prove breast milk gives your baby any more of a better start after these initial few days of breast feeding.

http://www.nrdc.org/breastmilk/benefits.asp

http://www.breastfeeding.ie/benefits_of_breastfeeding

http://www.ahrq.gov/Clinic/tp/brfouttp.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1595080/

Please don't give out medical/scientific advice when you clearly don't have a clue.

OP, clearly breastfeeding is important, so well done for that. I know my own mother tried and tried and just wasn't able to do it so I know it's not as easy as expressing enough for 4 days like you're a milk carton. I think you need to talk to your OH again and tell him how this is making you feel. Don't be afraid to list off the inequalities, it will show him he's being a s*lfish sh*t. If he still can't see your point then you have much bigger problems than a holiday I'm afraid.

Ickle Magoo

curlzy, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see my warning.

Folks, keep it on topic and direct advice at the OP or you'll earn yourself a ban/infraction...and that doesn't mean carry on debating and throw a token line or two to the OP at the end of your post.

handlemaster, you've repeatedly made your point in this thread - please allow others to make theirs and let the OP decide whose advice to take on board.

Cheers.

Do NOT respond to this warning on-thread.

LegacyUser

Earlier this year, I had reason to ask my father for help. I’m usually quite independent and rarely ask for anything. I thought that since I’ve done a lot for him, he’d not mind helping me. Nor would it be a big deal. How wrong I was. He very reluctantly and grudgingly and only very late in the day did he change his tune. I was left feeling very hurt and somewhat angry by his attitude.
I confided in some friends because his attitude had upset me and a couple of the older ones made me stop and think. They pointed out that what I’d asked him to do was taking him out of his comfort zone and was a bigger deal to him than a younger person. That I’d taken him out of his comfort zone and the stress of this over-rode anything else. I still feel a bit hurt at how horrible he was to me that day but I’m much more at peace with it now.
I’m telling you this story to perhaps put a different perspective on your problem. I’m not for one moment condoning what your OH’s doing but sometimes it helps to see things from another person’s point of view. Maybe he doesn’t feel involved in the bringing up of the kids? He’s more stressed out by it than you think? It’s probably true too that he has been in a comfort zone of his own and hasn’t been affected as much as you by having these kids.
You also said things haven’t been good between yourselves for a while. So maybe you should do something about that? Go see a counsellor if necessary.

LegacyUser

Thank you all for the feedback, it's been very helpful. I just wanted to add a few things and answer a few questions:
1) Both my children hated bottles and that is why I have never been away from them for more than a few hours. And I am not even going there with the whole breastfeeding/formula debate!! I did what I feel is best for my children.
In both pregnancies I had SPD so hobbling along to hen nights was not the best idea as I would have been so uncomfortable
2) I have NEVER moaned about my OH having weekends away and never threw it back in his face, as you'll see from my first post I think he deserves a break, as do I. I just added into my post to give a bit of background info.
3) The break in January was suggested as my family in England are having a party and my mum thought this was a good a time as any for us to go away. So that is why January propped up. Also my mum and sister want the extra long weekend to spend time with the family. I could go Sat and Sun only but it would mean flying on my own and having a rushed visit which is not what I want tbh.
4) My OH is a fantastic Dad, very hands on and takes our eldest boy everywhere with him so I know leaving them with him wouldn't be much hardship. They would probably live on junk food for the weekend and stay up all night but I can live with that
5) He never uses his days, as I said previously, he always has some left at the end of the year that he has to take or lose them so why not use them on me??

I should be saying all this to him I know but we are now being very responsible adults and not talking!!

Rosy Posy

OP I am in a similar situation to you in that I have exclusively breastfed all of my children (no bottles- straight from breast to cup) and that my OH has enjoyed far far much more freedom in the early years. I know it is hard for people who bottle feed to understand the reliance that an exclusively breastfed baby has on mum's physical presence. But you need a break too and it will make a better mother of you if you can have some space to be yourself again. I think that part of your OH's anxiety around being left with the children is a fear of incompetence based on his lack of experience with the minutae of looking after a baby. I know with my first child I had a tendency to micromanage my OH's time with the children- instead of letting him figure it out himself I had to either do it for him or stand over him tutting because he wasn't doing it 'right'. You need to gradually empower him to come to a place where he is comfortable taking exclusive responsibility for his children. Your holiday is quite a way away and if I'm correct your baby will be hitting the nine month mark by then? There's a world of difference between six and nine months, I always found that my OH's interest perked up when the baby became a bit more interactive. I would suggest that you start NOW giving him some more responsibilities, especially learning to put baby down for naps and to sleep at night. Let him do this in his own way (within reason), for example, with my daughter my OH used to hold her under the extractor fan in the bathroom and rock her until the movement and the white noise sent her to sleep. Random and I didn't totally approve but it got me off the hook having to bf her to sleep and he was empowered by figuring out a parenting strategy on his own. Other aspects of care he can take over completely, such as bathtime or some kind of weekend activity. If I were you I would build his confidence with the kids up, giving heaps of praise, over the next three months to get him to a place where he is happy to take them for your well deserved break.

I know other posters lambasted the poster who said that men don't like to hear about their 'negative equity' in stag nights nights out etc etc etc but I have to say I'd agree somewhat- from a purely selfish pov its may be true but its not going to get you anywhere. Have a look at the book/site babyproofing your marriage, particularly what they say about score keeping. http://www.babyproofingyourmarriage.com/

LittleBook

whatdoyethink? wrote: »

4) My OH is a fantastic Dad, very hands on and takes our eldest boy everywhere with him so I know leaving them with him wouldn't be much hardship. They would probably live on junk food for the weekend and stay up all night but I can live with that

The only thing that would have satisfactorily explained his reaction (if I was in this situation) is if the case was that he was worried about coping on his own and had a knee-jerk reaction to your plan. My friend's partner has to take his kids (3 & 5) to his Mum's when she goes away for a weekend because he claims he cannot (read: "will not") cope with them on his own.

I'm struggling to see what exactly is your husband's problem here. Using a couple of days out of his annual leave is not a valid explanation for his reaction and I still suspect it's not the real reason as it's just so ... unreasonable.

So ask him. Without going into the fact you need a break (which is obvious) or the fact that he's had breaks (which is clearly not an issue for you) ... ask him what IS the issue.

Big Bag of Chips

You say he's very hands on, and brings the 3 year old everywhere... How good is he with the baby though?

My husband is brilliant, now that the youngest is 4. But he wasn't always that keen to be left with the kids in the early days.

If it's purely selfish reasons that he doesn't want to use his precious holidays, then I say book your ticket and give him the dates you'll be gone.

If it's down to him not being comfortable with the baby, build it up between now and January where he does more and more with the baby.... And then give him the dates you'll be gone!

meeeeh

whatdoyethink? wrote: »

Thank you all for the feedback, it's been very helpful. I just wanted to add a few things and answer a few questions:
1) Both my children hated bottles and that is why I have never been away from them for more than a few hours. And I am not even going there with the whole breastfeeding/formula debate!! I did what I feel is best for my children.
In both pregnancies I had SPD so hobbling along to hen nights was not the best idea as I would have been so uncomfortable
2) I have NEVER moaned about my OH having weekends away and never threw it back in his face, as you'll see from my first post I think he deserves a break, as do I. I just added into my post to give a bit of background info.
3) The break in January was suggested as my family in England are having a party and my mum thought this was a good a time as any for us to go away. So that is why January propped up. Also my mum and sister want the extra long weekend to spend time with the family. I could go Sat and Sun only but it would mean flying on my own and having a rushed visit which is not what I want tbh.
4) My OH is a fantastic Dad, very hands on and takes our eldest boy everywhere with him so I know leaving them with him wouldn't be much hardship. They would probably live on junk food for the weekend and stay up all night but I can live with that
5) He never uses his days, as I said previously, he always has some left at the end of the year that he has to take or lose them so why not use them on me??

I should be saying all this to him I know but we are now being very responsible adults and not talking!!

I exclusively breastfeed till my son was six months and I remember how hard it was to get him to take bottle. So I actually do understand how hard it can be. I just want to say that suggestion of keeping score and listing everything you had to do as suggested by some will not help the situation, because it doesn't seem that your partner was taking many days of either.

I might be wrong but I have a feeling you live with workaholic and sometimes any excuse is good to be in work and I heard them all together with the whole guilt trip. And yet when it's emergency or something else he can easily take time off. I think you could book the holidays. If you don't you'll resent him and it will make things even worse. You could maybe look into someone minding children during the day for a day or two, if he really insists on being to busy to take days off. It's handy anyway if there is some kind of an emergency. I just think that keeping scores is not very helpful, that is all.

LegacyUser

Used to live next door to a couple with three children. Dad was a workaholic, Mom worked too but is a great Mom to her kids.

Anyway, Mom used to go away for weekends/overnights/nights out and leave completely inept Dad minding the kids. She'd just announce, I'm away on x date and that's it. We were horrified! He literally didn't have a clue and I'm talking about when the kids were still in nappies. We'd hear the kids crying and knew there was chaos, but had to leave him at it. I used to wonder how she could go away with a clear conscience, but her attitude was , they're his kids too, it took the two of us to make them and he is going to take responsibilty for minding them. Sometimes he'd pack them up and they'd go to his parents, but most of the time he did just fine. I don't think he was impressed with the situation, but it was presented as fait acompli.

Now, I admire her for saying that she needed her time in order to be a better mother. OP, you need to go out, have a meal without someone pulling at you or telling you they need potty or whatever. I know that these are the joys of being a mom, but you also need adult time and a chance to relax.

If he wants to sulk, that's his business. If he wants to pay a childminder, that's up to him. But explain that you need a break, you're going, the kids are his for those few days. and explain that if he needs help, you accept that. But he needs to organise that help, not you.

If he doesn't accept that Moms need a break every now and then, I fear you may have bigger problems than a weekend away.

Lollipops23

anonogirl wrote: »

Anyway, Mom used to go away for weekends/overnights/nights out and leave completely inept Dad minding the kids. She'd just announce, I'm away on x date and that's it. We were horrified! He literally didn't have a clue and I'm talking about when the kids were still in nappies. We'd hear the kids crying and knew there was chaos, but had to leave him at it. I used to wonder how she could go away with a clear conscience, but her attitude was , they're his kids too, it took the two of us to make them and he is going to take responsibilty for minding them.

He's a grown man, baby minding is tiring, but not rocket science. He's their father and a grown man, the mother shouldn't have it on her "conscience" when she's leaving her children with their father.


It seems a lot of people have what I would consider to be very backwards views on motherhood and the role it is.