"off season" plans

miller82

I presume nearly everyones season is over now.

I've signed up for my first IM, so i want to keep doing something.
The plan is to back right off for the next three or four weeks (will still cycle to work (26km) every day and go to the gym most days), and then for November and December i want to do one swim session, one run and one cycle, as well as at least two classes of Pilates.

Whats everyone elses plans ?

Peterx

Short term - give blood, drink pints on a school night, go to Run Lola Run in the IFI

The rest of the off-season - indoor rock-climbing, CX races, swimming, DIY, Night classes, 2 gappers, Sunday Plods, quality time with family.

Izoard

The "off season" starts with the negotiations for next year - haven't found the right moment yet for the IM chat...

RacoonQueen

Off season? Backing off? Family? Friends?

Confused.

Brick Session

Find my mojo and get off my arse

griffin100

Learn how to swim!!

tunney

miller82 wrote: »

I presume nearly everyones season is over now.

I've signed up for my first IM, so i want to keep doing something.
The plan is to back right off for the next three or four weeks (will still cycle to work (26km) every day and go to the gym most days), and then for November and December i want to do one swim session, one run and one cycle, as well as at least two classes of Pilates.

Whats everyone elses plans ?

Respect. I couldn't manage five training sessions a day.

shotgunmcos

tunney wrote: »

Respect. I couldn't manage five training sessions a day.

Wouldnt be from a lack of trying though...

elvis jones

currently in the middle of 2 weeks off on my arse on holidays and i mean on my arse doing NOTHING !

Back next week, starting a new job and no more commuting ! I have Up & Over next year so pre training begins until middle of Dec, 2 weeks off and then from Jan its solid work to get ready for it.

Main focus for 10 weeks in weight loss, the vain of my life. I wonder how fit i am compared to others seeing as i'm dragging 3 or 4 stone extra around the course, its "what if" when i think what improvement would i see with the same level of fitness but with even 2 stone less.

Chartsengrafs

griffin100 wrote: »

Learn how to swim!!

+1

I have work to do!

miller82

tunney wrote: »

Respect. I couldn't manage five training sessions a day.

:cool:

a week obviously

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Wouldnt be from a lack of trying though...

Yes I have done five a days Not that many but a few, and obviously not recently.

miller82 wrote: »

:cool:

a week obviously

Well my comment was tongue in cheek. Trying to suggest that five sessions was something more appropriate to a day than a week.

If you leave getting back to training until January (as 1 swim, 1 cycle and 1 run is not even maintenance levels of training) then you'll struggle.

The "off season" does not mean "do fvck all", it means there are no races, it doesn't mean no training.

You are doing IM Austria. You will do a 16-18 week block of training before it and call it your "Ironman block". Its not. Its a block that will allow you to assemble the pieces of training that you have done into one piece. The speed you swim 4km at entering this block - thats the best pace you will swim at in your IM (obviously if you do a 4km swim in a pool and then a 2.9km swim in an IM you might think you've swam faster, you've just swam shorter). The wattage you hold for a 4-5 hour ride, thats the best you'll hold. Your long run pace, thats the best you will hold.

The final 16-18 weeks won't make you any faster, it just puts the pieces together.

Off season for me and mine means lots of bike work (endurance, speed and strength) and a good chunk of run work too.

"Swim like your gonna drown, Ride like you stole it and Run like they are chasing you."

BTH

tunney wrote: »

"Swim like your gonna drown, Ride like you stole it and Run like they are chasing you."

With Halloween coming soon that should be easy to do. F*cking knac*ers

miller82

tunney wrote: »

Yes I have done five a days Not that many but a few, and obviously not recently.



Well my comment was tongue in cheek. Trying to suggest that five sessions was something more appropriate to a day than a week.

If you leave getting back to training until January (as 1 swim, 1 cycle and 1 run is not even maintenance levels of training) then you'll struggle.

The "off season" does not mean "do fvck all", it means there are no races, it doesn't mean no training.

You are doing IM Austria. You will do a 16-18 week block of training before it and call it your "Ironman block". Its not. Its a block that will allow you to assemble the pieces of training that you have done into one piece. The speed you swim 4km at entering this block - thats the best pace you will swim at in your IM (obviously if you do a 4km swim in a pool and then a 2.9km swim in an IM you might think you've swam faster, you've just swam shorter). The wattage you hold for a 4-5 hour ride, thats the best you'll hold. Your long run pace, thats the best you will hold.

The final 16-18 weeks won't make you any faster, it just puts the pieces together.

Off season for me and mine means lots of bike work (endurance, speed and strength) and a good chunk of run work too.

"Swim like your gonna drown, Ride like you stole it and Run like they are chasing you."

interesting. so how many hours training (A WEEK ) would you recommend in November and December ??

elvis jones

miller82 wrote: »

interesting. so how many hours training (A WEEK ) would you recommend in November and December ??

+1 as i know i have a lot of work to do to even be ready for Jan and building towards Aug !

tunney

miller82 wrote: »

interesting. so how many hours training (A WEEK ) would you recommend in November and December ??

There is no right answer. It depends on so many factors.
*Age
*Martial status (single/married)
*Desired martial status (married/divorced)
*Kids
*Type of job
*Years in the sport
*Strengths and weaknesses

However I'd go with a minimum of ten hours

3 swims (one speed, one endurance and, depending on the swimmer, one strength or technique swim)
2-3 bikes (one longer (3 hours min), one intense)
4-5 runs (one longer, one strength or speed)
3 core sessions a week (10 minutes each)

278 days to Austria, time is fast running out. Remember as well increases in fitness cannot/will not happen at the same time as decreases in body mass.

miller82

tunney wrote: »

There is no right answer. It depends on so many factors.
*Age
*Martial status (single/married)
*Desired martial status (married/divorced)
*Kids
*Type of job
*Years in the sport
*Strengths and weaknesses

However I'd go with a minimum of ten hours

3 swims (one speed, one endurance and, depending on the swimmer, one strength or technique swim)
2-3 bikes (one longer (3 hours min), one intense)
4-5 runs (one longer, one strength or speed)
3 core sessions a week (10 minutes each)

278 days to Austria, time is fast running out. Remember as well increases in fitness cannot/will not happen at the same time as decreases in body mass.

i just followed through............cheers for that

what do you mean by the bit in bold ?

just to finish me off, how many hours would you be looking to clock up around March/April ?

tunney

miller82 wrote: »

i just followed through............cheers for that

Don't get ya?

miller82 wrote: »

what do you mena by the bit in bold ?

Weight loss and fitness gains are, by and large, mutually exclusive. You cannot get fitter while getting leaner. Pick one.

miller82 wrote: »

just to finish me off, how many hours would you be looking to clock up around March/April ?

Its more important WHAT you do rather than how much in my opinion. If I still have any bicycles in March/April I personally would expect 16-18 hours a week.

miller82

tunney wrote: »

Don't get ya?



Weight loss and fitness gains are, by and large, mutually exclusive. You cannot get fitter while getting leaner. Pick one.



Its more important WHAT you do rather than how much in my opinion. If I still have any bicycles in March/April I personally would expect 16-18 hours a week.

I meant i **** myself

i'm missing this one entirely, surely as you get fitter you would get more lean ??

IF you still have any cycles left in March ?????
Why wouldnt you ?

BTH

miller82 wrote: »

I meant i **** myself

i'm missing this one entirely, surely as you get fitter you would get more lean ??

IF you still have any cycles left in March ?????
Why wouldnt you ?

When he doesn't train enough this winter his wife is going to sell them all.

tunney

miller82 wrote: »

I meant i **** myself

Got ya

miller82 wrote: »

i'm missing this one entirely, surely as you get fitter you would get more lean ??

Small amounts of fat loss yes. however if you significantly fail the jiggle test (i.e. weight is a primary limiter for you) then this fat loss cannot happen while getting fitter. The calorie deficit required to shift significant amounts of weight means that you cannot get proper training done.

miller82 wrote: »

IF you still have any cycles left in March ?????
Why wouldnt you ?

Wife. "Training properly, 2009/2010 style or I sell the bikes" She is serious. Training plan for next fornight being submitted tomorrow and have to stick to. Was meant to be today but my liver fell out over the weekend.

d4r3n

For me the "off season" will be 8-10 weeks of weight training combined with bike strength/force work (aiming to gain 2-3 kg) with more traditional training starting late November/early December with the usual 1x (strength/speed/endurance) session per sport per week (9 sessions) minimum, along with a club cycle on Sunday and some gym based maintenance work.

Briando

tunney wrote: »

3 core sessions a week (10 minutes each)

What are you doing for your core sessions? Gym work or some exercises at home on the floor?

I've started doing them 3 times a week, to try and increase hip stability and reduce the amount of injuries I pick up.

Do a set this 5 times:
Plank: 1min
Leg raise(lying on back with both legs raised an inch from the floor) : 20 seconds
Clam: 20 each side.
Scissors :20 each side.(Lying on side raise leg to roof)
Bridge : 20

Looking for a few more core/glute exercises to mix it up a little. Have some weights for ankles and some 7.5kg weights I'll add in later on to keep increasing the resistance as I get stronger.

tunney

Briando wrote: »

What are you doing for your core sessions? Gym work or some exercises at home on the floor?

I've started doing them 3 times a week, to try and increase hip stability and reduce the amount of injuries I pick up.

Do a set this 5 times:
Plank: 1min
Leg raise(lying on back with both legs raised an inch from the floor) : 20 seconds
Clam: 20 each side.
Scissors :20 each side.(Lying on side raise leg to roof)
Bridge : 20

Looking for a few more core/glute exercises to mix it up a little. Have some weights for ankles and some 7.5kg weights I'll add in later on to keep increasing the resistance as I get stronger.

Crunch x 30
Bicycle x 40
Dorsal Raises x 20
V set x 20
Bum lifts x 10
Plank for 60 seconds
Left side plank for 30 seconds
Right side plank for 30 seconds
Pike x 10
Plank for 90 seconds
Left side plank for 30 seconds
Right side plank for 30 seconds

RacoonQueen

Briando wrote: »

What are you doing for your core sessions? Gym work or some exercises at home on the floor?

I've started doing them 3 times a week, to try and increase hip stability and reduce the amount of injuries I pick up.

Do a set this 5 times:
Plank: 1min
Leg raise(lying on back with both legs raised an inch from the floor) : 20 seconds
Clam: 20 each side.
Scissors :20 each side.(Lying on side raise leg to roof)
Bridge : 20

Looking for a few more core/glute exercises to mix it up a little. Have some weights for ankles and some 7.5kg weights I'll add in later on to keep increasing the resistance as I get stronger.

Get a medicine ball. Ankle/wrist weights aren't great IMO. Good for rehab but not when you're doing specific strength stuff.

With medicine ball
Squat to press, med ball chops, med ball walk

Progress your plank to side plank, plank with one leg off the ground, other leg of the ground, one arm up, other arm up, one leg and oppossing arm up etc
Progress your bridge

Single leg lunge, reverse strides

With swimming, you might want to do a bit of stuff for your shoulders. An old injury means I have problems with a weak right shoulder - if I don't keep up the right strength stuff I could be doing little to no swimming for weeks. I don't think shoulder stuff is really a common thing with triathletes though...

elvis jones

tunney wrote: »

Small amounts of fat loss yes. however if you significantly fail the jiggle test (i.e. weight is a primary limiter for you) then this fat loss cannot happen while getting fitter. The calorie deficit required to shift significant amounts of weight means that you cannot get proper training done.

That is true, while i upped my training i lost little or no weight. i have a 10 week period now where i can focus on it before proper fitness begins in Jan.

sconhome

elvis jones wrote: »

That is true, while i upped my training i lost little or no weight. i have a 10 week period now where i can focus on it before proper fitness begins in Jan.

+1

I'm running like a lunatic and still packing a fair wallop of insulation. I'm hoping to go lean, lean, lean over the winter.

RedB

tunney wrote: »

The calorie deficit required to shift significant amounts of weight means that you cannot get proper training done.

So is the off season the time to focus on calorie deficit and the proper training kicks in then after that when the weight is optimal? I'm in a chicken or egg state of mind again - which comes first?
Do you find the weight drops again when the proper training kicks in? Or do you manage to fuel it to equilibrium?

amphkingwest wrote: »

+1
I'm running like a lunatic and still packing a fair wallop of insulation. I'm hoping to go lean, lean, lean over the winter.

Do you think calorie deficit is the main way to go to get lean then or is it also a combination of strength and aero training

sconhome

RedB wrote: »

Do you think calorie deficit is the main way to go to get lean then or is it also a combination of strength and aero training

I've been tinkering with ideas since reading Racing Weight. Main thing I've done is pulled the processed carbs out of my diet all together. I've a ferocious sweet-tooth that would put all the 'Confessions' to shame if I didnt control it.

I gotta plan it a bit yet, but essentially for me I think, managing the diet, low intensity exercise and variety of exercise will be the plan to cut the spare tyre. Low stress exercise, regular feeding, plenty of water, no treats & SLEEP should make a difference for me.

As always open to opinions.

peter kern

miller82 i would recommned to reduce Alcohol intensity by 40 % in the off season but still drink consitently so you dodnt become a lightweight. if Spirits are your weakness focus on them if Conagc is your weaknes focus on that and if Rum is your weakness focus on rum....
and if you cant hold the glass then strenght training is seriously needed
Remember winter training is summer pleasure.
hope that helps a bit and dont let anybody scare you, have fun
and many peole have walked the marathon with much more tarining ;-)
unless you are really serious than you listen to what dave said at least you can say you really trained hard and you walked because you had nutrition issues.
and once you are an sub 10 Ironman send me an email and we talk.

longshank

peter kern wrote: »

miller82 i would recommned to reduce Alcohol intensity by 40 % in the off season but still drink consitently so you dodnt become a lightweight. if Spirits are your weakness focus on them if Conagc is your weaknes focus on that and if Rum is your weakness focus on rum....
and if you cant hold the glass then strenght training is seriously needed
Remember winter training is summer pleasure.
hope that helps a bit and dont let anybody scare you, have fun
and many peole have walked the marathon with much more tarining ;-)
unless you are really serious than you listen to what dave said at least you can say you really trained hard and you walked because you had nutrition issues.
and once you are an sub 10 Ironman send me an email and we talk.

that was my understanding of winter training - build your aerobic base with more volume and less intensity while working on your limiters, although I find that hard in the winter weather, but then summer wasn't great for long cycles!!! I think you can't just to do a big block of volume before your ironman, you will prob just get sick/injured.

tunney

longshank wrote: »

that was my understanding of winter training - build your aerobic base with more volume and less intensity while working on your limiters, although I find that hard in the winter weather, but then summer wasn't great for long cycles!!! I think you can't just to do a big block of volume before your ironman, you will prob just get sick/injured.

A slightly antiquated view and somewhat contraindicated. However lets not that get in the way of Brett Sutton impressions!

pconn062

tunney wrote: »

Weight loss and fitness gains are, by and large, mutually exclusive. You cannot get fitter while getting leaner. Pick one.

Is this exclusively a triathlon thing or does it carry over to pure running? Because during a fairly heavy block of training for a goal race I managed to drop my weight (and maintained it) from 11 stone down to a more respectable racing weight of 10 1/2 fairly easily simply by cleaning up my diet a bit. I lost the 1/2 a stone in 3-4 weeks.

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

A slightly antiquated view and somewhat contraindicated. However lets not that get in the way of Brett Sutton impressions!

tummy you are aware that a lot of world class coaches dont periodise and peridisation is more for beginner coaches, but that isnt to say that what lonkshank said dosnt work for beginner or intermediate triathletes. which this thread is clearly about.and it works quite well if weight loss is of high interest.

longshank there is many different ways to do something but while your approach might not work 100% its not a bad way.
what i was trying to say was 3 month ago miller 82 was a binge drinker in the last 6 weeks he is getting all too serious and wound up about triathlon ( at least thats what i feel) to become a proper Ironman is not done in 275 days it takes a bit longer than that. so why not having fun next year and then 2014 be more serious.

dave what periodisation do you use for 3.46h marathons with a 32 10 k pb ?

RayCun

pconn062 wrote: »

Is this exclusively a triathlon thing or does it carry over to pure running? Because during a fairly heavy block of training for a goal race I managed to drop my weight (and maintained it) from 11 stone down to a more respectable racing weight of 10 1/2 fairly easily simply by cleaning up my diet a bit. I lost the 1/2 a stone in 3-4 weeks.

+1
Crash-dieting and fitness gains may be mutually exclusive, but if your regular diet includes a Big Mac every day (and a packet of Haribo every night;)) or a rake of pints on the weekend - those are calories you can drop without losing fitness.
Or if you kept the same diet and added an extra 2 hours of training each week, wouldn't you lose weight and gain fitness?

peter kern

RayCun wrote: »

+1
Crash-dieting and fitness gains may be mutually exclusive, but if your regular diet includes a Big Mac every day (and a packet of Haribo every night;)) or a rake of pints on the weekend - those are calories you can drop without losing fitness.
Or if you kept the same diet and added an extra 2 hours of training each week, wouldn't you lose weight and gain fitness?

that would be way to simple and we dont do things simple in triathlon it has to sound really difficult to work.
i hear compresion belly gear is the new thing ;-0

RayCun

I knew I should have thrown in a reference to power meters

RacoonQueen

RayCun wrote: »

+1
Crash-dieting and fitness gains may be mutually exclusive, but if your regular diet includes a Big Mac every day (and a packet of Haribo every night;)) or a rake of pints on the weekend - those are calories you can drop without losing fitness.
Or if you kept the same diet and added an extra 2 hours of training each week, wouldn't you lose weight and gain fitness?

Yeah well only someone who has a perfect diet wouldn't gain from changing that around a bit. Most would have a few things they could change, and judging by the confessions thread many on here could make a huge change to bodyfat and weight without disturbing their training regime...

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

tummy you are aware that a lot of world class coaches dont periodise and peridisation is more for beginner coaches, but that isnt to say that what lonkshank said dosnt work for beginner or intermediate triathletes. which this thread is clearly about.and it works quite well if weight loss is of high interest.

longshank there is many different ways to do something but while your approach might not work 100% its not a bad way.
what i was trying to say was 3 month ago miller 82 was a binge drinker in the last 6 weeks he is getting all too serious and wound up about triathlon ( at least thats what i feel) to become a proper Ironman is not done in 275 days it takes a bit longer than that. so why not having fun next year and then 2014 be more serious.

dave what periodisation do you use for 3.46h marathons with a 32 10 k pb ?

@miller82 I have done you a disservice! I was not aware of your recent history. As such disregard my comments and go with Peters.

@peter kern : see what happens when you post with full sentences and proper(ish) grammar - you get your point across rather convincingly. Also knock out closing.

tunney

pconn062 wrote: »

Is this exclusively a triathlon thing or does it carry over to pure running? Because during a fairly heavy block of training for a goal race I managed to drop my weight (and maintained it) from 11 stone down to a more respectable racing weight of 10 1/2 fairly easily simply by cleaning up my diet a bit. I lost the 1/2 a stone in 3-4 weeks.

How do you know you got fitter?

I hate to go against the spirit of the board looking for quantifiable results. I'd even hate more to post links to studies from high end cyclists, which involved power meters, testing and what not. I'd really hate to point out the scientific conclusions.

"But I ran faster, that means I am fitter" Nope means you are faster.

RayCun wrote: »

+1
Crash-dieting and fitness gains may be mutually exclusive, but if your regular diet includes a Big Mac every day (and a packet of Haribo every night;)) or a rake of pints on the weekend - those are calories you can drop without losing fitness.
Or if you kept the same diet and added an extra 2 hours of training each week, wouldn't you lose weight and gain fitness?

Again a definition of fitness would be required and how it is determined. Simply being faster does not mean fitter.

RayCun wrote: »

I knew I should have thrown in a reference to power meters

Used correctly that can be quite telling.
Some very interesting conversations going on elsewhere on them and I was going to start a thread but it would end up being the inevitable.

RayCun

I'd accept, for the sake of argument, that professional athletes could lose weight, get a short term speed increase, but lose longer-term fitness at the same time.
But non-professional athletes who are far above their ideal weight can lose a lot of that weight before losing fitness - if they lose that weight sensibly of course, by eating healthily and having less to own up to in the confession box thread.

And if someone has a sustained period of racing faster in their goal races, but their power meter is telling them that they are not fitter, then something needs to be recalibrated. Probably not the race results.

sconhome

Ah go on, start the thread! Can always be locked if it gets out of hand

tunney

RayCun wrote: »

I'd accept, for the sake of argument, that professional athletes could lose weight, get a short term speed increase, but lose longer-term fitness at the same time.
But non-professional athletes who are far above their ideal weight can lose a lot of that weight before losing fitness - if they lose that weight sensibly of course, by eating healthily and having less to own up to in the confession box thread.

This isn't about loosing fitness while loosing weight, its about gaining fitness while loosing weight.

RayCun wrote: »

And if someone has a sustained period of racing faster in their goal races, but their power meter is telling them that they are not fitter, then something needs to be recalibrated. Probably not the race results.

Differnt a little in cycling as its non-weight bearing. Plus cycling has a nice handy metric that can be used as a definition for "having improved your capacity to perform". Power to weight. Two ways to do it - loose weight while maintaining present power generation. Maintain weight while increasing power generation. Either will work, and both do work. However its when people trying to do both as they think they will see double the results - they don't. Negligible improvements at best.

For weight bearing sports like running - lighter==faster (to a point) so the illusion of gaining fitness while loosing weight is maintained. However whats probably just happened is weight was lost while aerobic/anaerobic capacity remained static.

BennyMul

tunney wrote: »

This isn't about loosing fitness while loosing weight, its about gaining fitness while loosing weight.

Without giving away too many trade secrets. how would you approach this?
I am over weight and would like to try and improve next season, so how do you balance this?

RayCun

tunney wrote: »

This isn't about loosing fitness while loosing weight, its about gaining fitness while loosing weight.

Sure. But the only reason why it would be impossible to gain power while losing weight would be if all weight contributed to power. But fat doesn't help generate power.
If you are already so highly-trained and physically optimised that any weight loss=muscle loss then sure, you can't lose weight and get fitter. If you could calibrate your diet and training so precisely that the fat loss was exactly balanced by muscle gain then yeah, you can get fitter without losing weight.
But if you're 10k overweight and you cut out the second jam doughnut for breakfast each morning, you can increase your training load, get fitter, and lose weight at the same time.

tunney

RayCun wrote: »

Sure. But the only reason why it would be impossible to gain power while losing weight would be if all weight contributed to power. But fat doesn't help generate power.

Fat does not generate power of course. However hypertrophy of muscles will not happen during periods of calorie deficit, nor will any of the other multitude of changes that collectively result in "improved fitness", increased red blood cells, etc etc etc.

RayCun wrote: »

If you are already so highly-trained and physically optimised that any weight loss=muscle loss then sure, you can't lose weight and get fitter. If you could calibrate your diet and training so precisely that the fat loss was exactly balanced by muscle gain then yeah, you can get fitter without losing weight.
But if you're 10k overweight and you cut out the second jam doughnut for breakfast each morning, you can increase your training load, get fitter, and lose weight at the same time.

I'm obviously not same that a fattie (myself included) cannot loose weight and get fitter. I'm saying that this processes will not work when done simultaneously. There might be slight performance improvements but nothing anywhere as significant as if they were happening separately.

RayCun

tunney wrote: »

Fat does not generate power of course. However hypertrophy of muscles will not happen during periods of calorie deficit, nor will any of the other multitude of changes that collectively result in "improved fitness", increased red blood cells, etc etc etc.

Do you have a cite for this? Is this a binary thing? Eat 300 calories more than you expend each day -> hypertrophy and increased red blood cell count
Eat exactly in balance -> hypertrophy and increased red blood cell count
Eat 100 calories less than you expend -> no effect, sorry!

If you start a swim session in the morning fully fueled, and eat your regular diet through the rest of the day, will a can of coke with your dinner improve your fitness more than a glass of water?

tunney

RayCun wrote: »

Do you have a cite for this?

I can get.

RayCun wrote: »

Is this a binary thing? Eat 300 calories more than you expend each day -> hypertrophy and increased red blood cell count
Eat exactly in balance -> hypertrophy and increased red blood cell count
Eat 100 calories less than you expend -> no effect, sorry!

If you start a swim session in the morning fully fueled, and eat your regular diet through the rest of the day, will a can of coke with your dinner improve your fitness more than a glass of water?

I don't think anyone was saying that a calorie surplus was required, plus I doubt a day in calorie deficit alone would have an impact.

RayCun

tunney wrote: »

I don't think anyone was saying that a calorie surplus was required, plus I doubt a day in calorie deficit alone would have an impact.

I think it's going to depend on the extent of the deficit, both for a single day and over a sustained period. There obviously is a point where if you don't eat enough, you can't train as hard, you can't improve your fitness. And if you are ramping up your training you have to recognise that you will need more fuel for this training - if you are happy with your current weight you will need to eat more, if you are trying to lose weight you need to adjust your diet to handle the increased energy demands.

But I don't agree that you can't improve your fitness and your weight at the same time. If you have a lot of crap in your diet you can cut down, replace it with healthier stuff, meet the demands of training, and lose weight at a sustainable pace. Being 'in training' is not an excuse to clear the dessert trolley every day .

pconn062

tunney wrote: »

How do you know you got fitter?

I hate to go against the spirit of the board looking for quantifiable results. I'd even hate more to post links to studies from high end cyclists, which involved power meters, testing and what not. I'd really hate to point out the scientific conclusions.

"But I ran faster, that means I am fitter" Nope means you are faster.

I suppose not coming from a sciencey triathlon background I equate getting faster as getting fitter. I'm not measuring wattage or HR, I simply see myself getting quicker with better results in races while also dropping weight (and I suppose those two things are connected).

RayCun

In principle you could get faster in running just by being lighter. You could be doing the same training, have the same VO2, whatever, but you're not carrying a sack of blubber around so you run faster. But, from what I've seen, the people getting faster and lighter are also training more and better, and this training is contributing to their weight loss as much as diet changes.