Dispute with Fiance on where to live

Victor

nowyouresix wrote: »

I thought OP worked in south dublin? It takes me 40-45 mins from Mullingar to the M50...takes one hour flat to get to Bray from Longford for a 9am start.... just saying ...

At 138km/h on roads that mostly have 100km/h speed limits? http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Main+Street&daddr=New+Street%2FN5&hl=en&ll=53.545204,-7.141113&spn=0.830672,2.705383&sll=53.743026,-7.767334&sspn=0.206698,0.676346&geocode=FdrVKwMdacei_w%3BFUrKMwMd3P-I_w&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=11&t=m&z=9 That doesn't allow for traffic.

We don't all have helicopters.

You might look at http://www.journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie for transport options.

melon_collie

OP I was in exactly the same situation as yourself. Fiancee wanted to live in her own home town literally down the road from where she grew up. She made up all these excuses to try and justify her desire. I did not want to live there as I wanted a bit of space. Her family could be a bit overpowering to say the least and the last thing I wanted was to come home from work every evening and find her family there smothering us. In the end I pressed for a compromise and we now live about 20mins away from her family. It's grand because she's not a huge distance away and if her family REALLY want to see her they can do so, but the little bit of distance means that they are not popping over every 5 mins. I would recommend that you go for a compromise. She'll come around to the idea if you are not forceful about it.

LegacyUser

OP find a compromise you can both live with. Discussing issue about commuting etc is distracting, the bigger issue is family and being on top of hers and far away from yours. My parents after marrying moved to my dads home town, right next door to his sister and across the road from his dad. My dads family is massive [15 aunts and uncles plus all their kids] and my mum has one sister. She ended up really unhappy being so far from her family [2hour drive on a good day] and having his very over powering family on top of her all the time. She was upset that her sisters kids got to spend loads of time with my grandparents but my brother and I saw them very little, my dads mum had died before I was born and his dad was sick all the time so we didn't have much of relationship with him while my mums parents are in their 90's now and still going strong and my mum felt we missed out on having a stronger relationship with them as kids. Yes it was nice when very young having loads of cousins my own age around but it soon got to be too much and I don't have a very close relationship with any of my dads family now bar two cousins whose parents also moved away. My parents ended up moving half way between the two places when I was older in order to save their marriage. It's nice to have family around but it's also nice to have some space so look into finding someplace that your both happy with otherwise it's just going to become an issue down the road.

Sleepy

To be fair to the OP, it sounds like his attempts at a compromise are being met with a teenage temper tantrum of "I want to live down the road from my mammy because that's how I've always wanted it"...

Based on that, I wouldn't put up with it OP. Your fiancée needs to understand that by getting married you'll be starting your own family unit which will need some space from her wider family. If your relationship doesn't have that space you're going to find yourself the hen-pecked husband of sitcoms as she'll be surrounded by support for every decision ye disagree on and it'll constantly become a case of you versus them where she can storm off to mammy's when she's not getting her own way.

Put the foot down on this, OP, if she won't compromise, cancel the wedding: she'll make an awful wife if she can't learn to compromise on the big decisions when you have differing opinions. It'd be a good time to discuss how many kids ye both want too: make sure there are no other "biggies" that ye disagree on.

Renting in the half-way location for a year is a good idea (to see if ye like it, to let house prices drop further and to increase your savings for the deposit / furnishing a house when you do pull the trigger). Rent in her home-town for a year and you'll never get her to leave.

username123

Ellsbells wrote: »

Op the commute is no big deal. When kids arrives you may need all the hands you can get?

Everyone is different but personally Id rather eat off my own foot than have an hours commute each way each day.

reprazant

Ellsbells wrote: »

How does it take that amount of time to travel Mullingar to m50 and only 15 minutes more to travel from Longford to Bray?

Op the commute is no big deal. When kids arrives you may need all the hands you can get?

Well I guess all the extra hands will be needed since the OP would be spending a whole lot of extra time sitting in traffic rather than helping his children grow.

jdsk2006

Im 100% for the country all the way, however I wouldnt move within an asses roar of hubbys family if I had my time over again - whats more neither would he! My advice is pick a country location halfway between your job and her family.......at least she gets her country dream and you have a smaller commute. I dont see why ye have to move to her family??? There are plenty of areas in the countryside to choose from to lay down your roots op, listen to your gut on this one.........i wish I had.
Goodluck with it xxx

Chicago Chick

OP this is a hard one to gauge and really is something you and your fiance need to sit down and discuss in an open and honest manner. I think though if possible some compromise should be meet, surely there are nice areas with good schools between both families. Maybe you could spend a few weekends looking around these areas together with an open mind. You may find something that surprises you both.

One of the things that is really sticking with me though is her comments you mentioned in relation to her family being close by with having children. Has it been discussed with them that they will help out or is it an assumption that they will? Family are great help but they have their own lives too and may not want the work that goes with small children all the time (don't mean that bad as I have two of my own aged 2 and 1).

My personal experience with this is that 8 yrs ago dh and I decided to move down the country (where we are from) and bought an old house and sunk a lot of money into it to get it as we wanted. We both worked on the border of Dublin but the commute was no issue until the children arrived as we were prepared for it. Now the children are here the goalposts have moved (as they will constantly as you go through life) and I have had to change my hours to part time due to the commute and dh is leaving by 6.25am every morning before the children are awake and not home til almost 7.00pm when I am getting them ready for bed. We are now in the process of trying to sell and move closer to the city. Work and good jobs are important when trying to provide for family (and hard to come by) and it is all no good if we are not spending time together as our own little family.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

okiss

I know families who are like your oh and I would not move beside them to suit you oh. The whole family would in your home morning noon and night.
Your oh has to relaise that we can't always get what we want. She needs to realise that you and her are going to have you own family in the future.
When you have a family it would be better for both of you not to have a long journey from work to home. How would she feel with a new born baby and your gone from 7 in the morning till 7.30 every evening?
What happens when your children want you to be there for there football, sport and dancing ect but your stuck in traffic instead?
I would explain to her that you are unwilling to do a long commute just so she can live beside her mother. I would tell her that this is due to the cost of commuting and the fact that if you have a family in the future you want to be there to see the children growing up. A child will remember the time you spend building a tree house not the expensive toy you give them.
I would look at renting a place you both like which is in a short commute of work of 30 to 40 mins as you can both work and still have a life doing this.
If you oh get her way and moves near the mother you will end up having no life at all and her family will know everything that is going on in your home.

movingsucks

^ In fairness though, themover *seems* to want his own mother and sister to be able call around on "the spur of the moment".
Maybe his fiancé finds them overbearing? If she never even considered them helping out with the children then maybe that relationship needs to be looked at.

To themover, as has been said you need a proper realistic conversation with her,
she needs to give you more of an answer than "because she just always pictured living there" (although now that I read back through the thread she did say because of better housing and such)
So she needs to fight her corner, give a full list of pros and cons and you do the same.
What school do you see the kids going to? What kind of house, area, estate do you see yourselves living in, will you want or need two cars,
If you're both doing a long commute, where will the kids go to school, who will pick them up when school is out and bring them to a child minder or creche?
Where do you want to buy in Dublin City? Does she like the area?
If looking at a half way point, where would suit? How far are you realistically willing to travel everyday? Will your own relatives be able to reach you seeing as they won't drive? There has to be give on both sides so do your research and keep an open mind.
If you're buying you need to get this as right as you can, because trust me - moving sucks
I spent three hours commuting to work every day for 3 years and it aged me horribly so I definitely would not want to do what she is suggesting for you!

tinkerbell

^ I got the impression that when the OP referred to buying in "Dublin City" that he probably meant South Dublin rather than city centre since that would be convenient for both of them, jobs-wise.

a posse ad esse

OP, have you discussed this before you got engaged? I know for one thing my husband and I discussed these things before we even got engaged as it is very important issue.

One thing is for sure from reading all the posts is that she had not one thought or consideration for you and your family. This is what concerns me more, it seems to me that she assumes you would drop everything and go her way which reaks of self-centredness. She sounds immature that she expects you to get another job in that area without the consideration that it may not be possible or as easy as she thinks. Or she has not thought once about the long commute and the impact it would have on a relationship. We all work overtime in this day and age and the added commute would complicate things more. From what I have read insofar, it sounds like she is overly dependent on her family and this is not a good sign. I know for most and speaking for myself and my hubby that once we left home we left for good. This does not mean we have no relationship with our respective families, it means that we are indepedent from them and that they don't meddle in our lives.

Before you marry you need to settle this issue compromisingly because if you don't, I am sorry to say the marriage is going off on a rocky start. Please I advise not to make any concrete wedding plans until this issue is sorted out first.

LegacyUser

Hi, OP here, thanks again for all the replies! I want to start by firstly saying my fiance is a lovely woman and very considerate so don't want people thinking she is the wicked witch of the west (or in this case the far north )

We have talked about where we would live pre our engagement but as I mentioned she thought I would come around to the idea but I haven't. Also on the comment about her needing her family, this is her view:

She grew up close to cousins and also has lots of siblings, so it was ideal in her mind for a child and she would like that for her kids, which is brilliant and all but I didn't and I turned out fine and so did my sister! It's not that bad a situation just because you don't live in the same area or go to the same school as the extended family. I think she would like to echo what her mother had or the freedom her mother had to raise kids out there (money wasn't an issue for them)
I know if we lived near them all they would be around every other day! Shes popular, the type that gets invited to everything by everyone ( i mean that in a positive way, i like that about her). But I do like my space and I'm very concerned about not having it!

I do work long hours but it only takes me 15/20 mins to get in and out of work at the moment, the commute time and the expense is high up there on my list of issues with living that far out. She also works more than the 9-5.

Also I appreciate and respect the people that mentioned they live out in rural areas and are happy with the way things are but personally it well scares me lol, I'm not sure I'd cope with the change in lifestyle (kids aside -which will basically make it more challenging).


I try to put forward the case that her brother is quite happily living nearer the city with his wife and child, but doesn't help that a couple of her close friends have managed to persuade their partners to move much further out than where my fiances wants to live so she's making that case back to me

I fear that I give it a go out there and I just can't get to enjoy it because I feel like I've been pressure into it OR I feel guilty for not giving her what she wants. Feck it's a tough one! Am i being stubborn?

bouncebouncey

No. You're trying to be reasonable

LegacyUser

I think that you are being very reasonable about wanting to live close to work and not have a long drive or train journey each day on top of working long hours.
Both you and her are currently working long hours so you need to consider this when you decide where to live. Does your oh want to give up work when you have a family?
It seems her mother was there always when she was growing up and had no money worries but the reality now is that most couples need 2 incomes to pay the bills.
Does she expect her mother/extended family to mind her baby/child when she goes back to work?
I know she has this idea I will move back home, get involved with the local community and I will be near all my family but some times life does not work out the way we want.
I would tell her that you are unwilling to leave your present job as it is a stable job and that you would like to live closer to work due to the fact you don't want a long commute.
I would also explain to her that she does not want a long work commute either when you have a family as you both want to spend time with your baby/children as they grow up. I would also ask her would she be happy to spend from 7 in the morning till 7.30 in the evening with a new born baby due to your commute? What happens if your baby or child gets sick and you both have to drive a long distance to get to them?
I have done a long commute for a while and I would not do it if I had a young family.
Also from doing a long commute I was going to bed early each night, getting up at 5.30 in the morning and not getting home till 7.00 or later each evening. This was nightmare during the winter and I was always tired. I know several people who did a long commute and they found it the same.

Sleepy

Is where the brother lives a reasonable half-way point?

She gets to be near some of her family, you get to live nearer the city (and without her entire family living in your front room).

Stavro Mueller

No you're not being stubborn at all. While I see where your fiancée's coming from on this, I'm not sure how much she's taking your concerns on board. If you both worked close to her home place, you were from around there and didn't feel swamped by her extended family, then yes it would make perfect sense. But you're not and that's the crux of this. What worked for her when she was growing up won't necessarily work for your kids.

Nor is the way she describes the only way in which you and your future family can live happily. You can still buy a nice house, send your kids to a nice school and live in a nice area without moving out to her neck of the woods. Just because you'll be living a little bit away doesn't mean your kids won't get to see their cousins a lot. Will your kids lives really be ruined if they go to a school that their cousins aren't attending?

I mentioned it already in this thread and I'll reiterate it again. If you do decide to try renting somewhere, do not under any circumstances rent where she's from. You'll never be able to leave.

iguana

themover wrote: »

Hi, OP here, thanks again for all the replies! I want to start by firstly saying my fiance is a lovely woman and very considerate so don't want people thinking she is the wicked witch of the west (or in this case the far north )

Sorry but can I clarify that you work in south Dublin and she wants to move to the edge of north county Dublin? That's actually madness in terms of commuting. 50km could easily take you 2+hours to travel in peak traffic. Considering the fact that you already work long hours the biggest benefit to both of you would be to live somewhere reasonably close to your workplace.

At the same time 50km isn't that far away during quiet traffic times so she could easily see her family regularly. She could visit them every weekend, while her parents could come see her one day a week or she could meet her mum/cousins in town for shopping/lunch.

I fully understand her desire to live near her family. She loves being around them and it's completely natural to want to be part of the close knit gang that they are. I have a really close extended family who I don't live near and haven't lived near in a decade and at times I really miss it. I do wish I could live closer to them, I'm 8 months pregnant and I'd especially love to have my mother around whenever I need her. And I have no doubt that raising this and any future baby would be a lot easier in many ways if we had family support all around us. But the fact of the matter is, it's just not realistic. I can work from home, so can live anywhere but my husband's work is not at all flexible so it's best for our family to live as close as we can to where he has to be. And while being around a big extended family would be a great way for our son to grow up, it certainly wouldn't be if it was at the expense of spending quality time with his dad each day.

Sleepy

Having done a Stamullen to Deansgrange commute for about 3 months a few years ago, I'd second what iguana is saying here. 2 hours to get home on a Friday night was far from unusual.

Any of the major business parks on South Dublin to the North County could easily leave you spending 3 hours a day sitting in traffic. Sure, you can do the full length of the M50 in half an hour on a Sunday afternoon. In ordinary rush-hour traffic it's quite a different proposition and should there be an incident either side of the motorway (a weekly event) all bets are off...

tinkerbell

^ Add to that, the M50 is one LONG road. If you're gonna be doing the full length of the M50 every day, your commute will not be short. There are incidents many days on the M50 but even a minor incident on the M50 can involve 1 or more lanes closed for a period of time - even with 1 lane closed, your journey time will go way up. Add to that and all the rain we've had at the moment - there's flooding in North Dublin like Lusk, Swords, etc. You really should be aiming to live close by to where you work - if you envisage yourself staying in your current job for the foreseable future, then get a place near there. Otherwise you'll spend 15 - 20 hours a week in traffic which is valuable time you could be spending with your family.

MrsJohnMurphy

Personally I would not move out to the sticks in your case.

Some of my family / friends have moved out to the sticks from Dublin and once the novelty of the change of scenery wears off its not easy in and out to work in Dublin. Huge amounts of time, money spent commuting on petrol, tolls, car maintenance etc.

Personally I think when people get married they should be prepared to move on a bit from their "old" family and focus more on their "new" family and not be so involved in the goings on off their siblings / parents.

Just my 2c worth.

ash23

OP, its a sticky one.
I have a large family and would love to live closer to them as I am currently a couple of hours from them. But I moved because my then partner was the main earner and his job took him here so off we went.
I commuted for a while down here and hated it with a passion. I was dropping my child to creche an hour and a half before starting and not seeing her all day plus another hour and a half after quitting time too. I was so unhappy, as was she.
I eventually got a lesser paid job closer to home (about 1 mile) and my quality of life improved so much.
I now live with my new partner and he lives in his home place and like your fiancee, his family are large and very present. It was an easier choice to move there though than you have because he had a house etc etc. But I put the foot down from the start and made a few rules about our privacy and things like that and it's working well.


I have to be honest and say I am with your fiancee on this one. You don't want to commute but she doesn't want to bring her children up in a city.
She is looking at it from a perspective of being able to be near her family for support and being able to work near the kids schools and childcare, ensuring she has a really good work life balance when she starts a family. And being honest, if she is living in the city, away from her family, or she is commuting from a half way point, she won't have that. She is also thinking about the home and the space living less centrally will provide.

I do understand that comes at a cost to you and no, it's not fair. But I think when all the pros and cons are weighed up, she has more substance behind her reasons than you have behind yours (sorry).

I guess I'm lucky because I come from a big family so the idea of my partners family doesn't scare me off because I know how to handle it, and vice versa.

Personally, I would look for a job in her hometown or very near to it. I would put the foot down about specifically where I would live (it's possible to live 15-20 mins from her family but still in the same area) simply because when it comes time to have kids, I do think she has the winning hand in terms of what her choice can offer over what your choice can.

Calhoun

ash23 wrote: »

OP, its a sticky one.
I have a large family and would love to live closer to them as I am currently a couple of hours from them. But I moved because my then partner was the main earner and his job took him here so off we went.
I commuted for a while down here and hated it with a passion. I was dropping my child to creche an hour and a half before starting and not seeing her all day plus another hour and a half after quitting time too. I was so unhappy, as was she.
I eventually got a lesser paid job closer to home (about 1 mile) and my quality of life improved so much.
I now live with my new partner and he lives in his home place and like your fiancee, his family are large and very present. It was an easier choice to move there though than you have because he had a house etc etc. But I put the foot down from the start and made a few rules about our privacy and things like that and it's working well.


I have to be honest and say I am with your fiancee on this one. You don't want to commute but she doesn't want to bring her children up in a city.
She is looking at it from a perspective of being able to be near her family for support and being able to work near the kids schools and childcare, ensuring she has a really good work life balance when she starts a family. And being honest, if she is living in the city, away from her family, or she is commuting from a half way point, she won't have that. She is also thinking about the home and the space living less centrally will provide.

I do understand that comes at a cost to you and no, it's not fair. But I think when all the pros and cons are weighed up, she has more substance behind her reasons than you have behind yours (sorry).

I guess I'm lucky because I come from a big family so the idea of my partners family doesn't scare me off because I know how to handle it, and vice versa.

Personally, I would look for a job in her hometown or very near to it. I would put the foot down about specifically where I would live (it's possible to live 15-20 mins from her family but still in the same area) simply because when it comes time to have kids, I do think she has the winning hand in terms of what her choice can offer over what your choice can.

Why is it acceptable for one partner to be unfair to another? what happened to partnership and compromise on both sides?

I don't want to sound unfair but this advice is coming from your own personal negative experience and rather than look for a compromise on both sides the advice is saying when a couple are having children the mothers work life balance has more substance/rights than a fathers?

The OP and his partner currently live close to where they both work or its implied they both work in the city. Why couldn't they get a creche local to their current location? or the in-between location?

I do agree with you on one thing all the negatives that you went through, these are the things the op will face if there is no compromise.

ash23

Calhoun wrote: »

Why is it acceptable for one partner to be unfair to another? what happened to partnership and compromise on both sides?

I don't want to sound unfair but this advice is coming from your own personal negative experience and rather than look for a compromise on both sides the advice is saying when a couple are having children the mothers work life balance has more substance/rights than a fathers?

The OP and his partner currently live close to where they both work or its implied they both work in the city. Why couldn't they get a creche local to their current location? or the in-between location?

I do agree with you on one thing all the negatives that you went through, these are the things the op will face if there is no compromise.

Thats not what I am saying at all.

A pros and cons list for her home place
1. She can work nearby so no commute
2. Her family can do childcare
3. They can have a bigger house with more space and a garden
4. She has more support as she has a larger family nearby
5. She knows the school and areas and the kids are brought up in a less urban area (although some might not see that as a pro -personally I do)

Cons
1. He has to commute so has higher expenses and less time at home (but he does have the option of job hunting more locally to her hometown)
2. They have to travel to visit his mother and sister
3. He doesn't want to live near her family


For the city

Pros
1. No commute for him or her
2. Living in city so everything to hand
3. Less petrol costs

Cons
1. Expensive rent & childcare
2. Child in a creche instead of with family
3. Commute to her family
4. Bringing up kids in the city (smaller place to live, more crime etc)
5. Lack of family support for her


So in my opinion, it's pretty obvious that there are more perks in terms of living in her place. Maybe not for him personally but for their family as a unit.
I said nothing about a mothers work/life being more important. If I had free childcare with my partners family and his family were going to be more support to me than my own etc., I would live in his hometown.
I am actually living in his hometown because it makes the most sense, not because it's necessarily best for me. His hometown offers the best life for us and our family unit. It happens to suit him more than me but I'm ok with it because it is the sensible choice.

ETA: I don't think the halfway thing will necessarily be the best idea. On paper it's the ideal compromise but in reality both will be commuting to work and family with none of the perks of either the hometown/city locations. So it would in my opinion be a lose/lose.
I think a town near to her hometown would be what I personally would go with.

Calhoun

You didn't have to say mothers rights were more important it was implied when you were speaking about yourself and your pro's and con's specifically call out her needs for family support.

As for the pro's and con list

A pros and cons list for her home place
1. She can work nearby so no commute She currently works nearby
2. Her family can do childcare Why would anybody bringing a child into the world expect family to hold the baby? what if they dont want to?
3. They can have a bigger house with more space and a garden Depending on property tax this maybe an added cost
4. She has more support as she has a larger family nearby What about his family?
5. She knows the school and areas and the kids are brought up in a less urban area (although some might not see that as a pro -personally I do) Good schools could be found in the city

Cons
1. He has to commute so has higher expenses and less time at home (but he does have the option of job hunting more locally to her hometown) Is this a realistic alternative? Can his income be met in the hometown? if not will they be able to have the life they want?
2. They have to travel to visit his mother and sister
3. He doesn't want to live near her family
4. More petrol costs added on for travel or children playing with friends in the future.

For the city
Pros
1. No commute for him or her
2. Living in city so everything to hand
3. Less petrol costs
4. More time to spend with the kids for both him and her/actually seeing their kid grow up


Cons
1. Expensive rent & childcare Would this not be roughly equal considering the pertol costs will make up the difference in the rent, childcare cost will be lower but not free i am making the assumption it wont be 100% dumped on her parents.
2. Child in a creche instead of with family
3. Commute to her family
4. Bringing up kids in the city (smaller place to live, more crime etc)
5. Lack of family support for her why is this so important for her but not for him?

Allot of the perks you are calling out are very subjective and not everyone will see the value in them. I do agree though that the family unit is important in all of this but there has to be a compromise because if two partners cannot compromise on something as important as this then it is probably not worth being together.

ash23

Calhoun wrote: »

You didn't have to say mothers rights were more important it was implied when you were speaking about yourself and your pro's and con's specifically call out her needs for family support.

Because she has a big family who she is very close to and he doesn't. Stop putting words in my mouth thanks.

seenitall

[QUOTE/] I actually have a sick feeling about living out there. [/QUOTE]

This is a case of a power struggle within a relationship, sorry to say. Whoever wins this one, it's about a lot more than home location.

Put it this way: if I felt as strongly about a place as you do, there is no way in heck I would let someone, er, persuade me to live there. Even with all the pros and the cons, and the wedding thrown in. No. What I'd do is be wondering why is this person, my partner, not taking my wants and needs into account, as well.

The best of luck with it, OP.

Calhoun

ash23 wrote: »

Because she has a big family who she is very close to and he doesn't. Stop putting words in my mouth thanks.

What does that matter? its the good of her new family unit that comes before her own but i see the point you were trying to make so with draw the comments on mother/fathers rights.

ash23

Calhoun wrote: »

What does that matter? its the good of her new family unit that comes before her own

It's not just about her. Support is important, especially when you have kids. That would go for OP too.
They could just do it all alone but trying to get (and afford) sitters that you know and trust, trying to juggle school holidays and sick days around full time jobs, trying to get through the day on hardly any sleep.....all of it is so much easier when you have a support network.

Of course it's possible to do it alone and many do, but it's also good to have help. OP has said both he and his fiancee work long hours(and he works more hours than her) so it's likely that she is thinking that they will be needing the support and wants to move closer to her family for that support, especially as her hours are shorter so more of it will fall to her. If they stay in the city the two of them will not have the same back up that they will have in her home town for all those unexpected things that happen.

Taltos

We are closing this thread especially as it is descending into a discussion.

ash23 & Calhoun - if you have not already done so please read our charter. PI/RI is not the right place for a discussion. Posters who contribute in violation of the rules here can shortly find that their posting privileges have been withdrawn.
If you have an issue with a poster report them - dragging threads off topic is not fair on the OP.
As warnings are incremental here we have issued a red and yellow as appropriate but as above have little choice now but to close this thread.