Gangsters

DEFTLEFTHAND

I've often wondered how the organised crime system works in Ireland. In College I did my FYP on New York organised crime in which I focused on the traditional 5 Mafia families. The Gambino, Lucchese, Colombo, Bonanno and Genovese. The only significant Irish gang in NY were the Westies who teamed with the Gambinos.

What I want to know is how organised is this crime in Ireland, do they run a similar organisational structure to the Mafia or are they as disorganised as the greasers make them out to be. Every article I read portrays the Irish as wreckless lunatics who don't possess the intelligence to run a proper 'family' (organised crime group)

Dunno how much traditional mafia businessss like protection money would happen in Ireland.. I remember the case of the Ira guy fuking with some sho owner but could be an isolated case.

As for drugs, highly organized I presume considering it's position as a gateway to Europe. Prostitution would be highly organized also but neither would be Irish run outfits. Definitely all connected through mainland Europe.

Sappa

My uncle worked in the flying squad in London,he said they had some real
Hard cases during the 80's but the Irish gangsters are a different breed altogether.
Even the UK gangsters fear them as they are so volatile and paranoid,they have no problem killing eachother if they suspect a betrayal or want to take out the competition.

smash

Sappa wrote: »

they have no problem killing eachother if they suspect a betrayal or want to take out the competition.

Isn't that what gangsters are supposed to do? All the 'sophisticated gangster' nonsense portrayed by Guy Richie over the years is just b0llox.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Sappa wrote: »

My uncle worked in the flying squad in London,he said they had some real
Hard cases during the 80's but the Irish gangsters are a different breed altogether.
Even the UK gangsters fear them as they are so volatile and paranoid,they have no problem killing eachother if they suspect a betrayal or want to take out the competition.

Paul Castellano agreed to deal with the Westies in order to get access to the west side of Manhattan. They were that intimidated, John Gotti Jnr a later boss of the Gambino's stated in court that nobody messed with Jimmy Coonan and the Westies. They were savages who killed aimlessly, but because of this they were a red hot target for the police, La Cosa Nostra stayed underground, hence they were far more successful than the Irish gangs.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Talking about the Irish control over the West side of Manhattan the story goes that a beat cop in the 1930s described the area as the hottest place in Hell. Hence the name Hell's Kitchen..

Richard Hillman

I aint saying nothin

senorwipesalot

Forget about it.

BillyMitchel

Read a book about Jimmy Coonan and the westies, holy crap, the level of violence that they'd use. Great book!

Irish crime is no where near as structured as Asian/Italian/Russian mafias. They'd have their hands in multimillion euro legitimate businesses too. Closet we have to that structure are our corrupt politicians!

kneemos

The less organised the better I would have thought since it makes it harder for the authorities to figure them out,however in a country like Ireland thier probably all well known.I think I heard what's his name,the crime reporter,say that the Limerick gangs like to model themselves on the Mafia.

MagicSean

Lots of different types of organised crime in Ireland op. you gotta be more specific. "Republican" protection rackets, burglary gangs, theft gangs, prostitution rings and of course the drugs gangs who are by far the worst and likely have a hand in many tiger kidnappings and robberies.

Turtyturd

No mention of the Garda yet?

johnwest288

ya sheee its like this sheee , you get the loot sheee:rolleyes:

Remmy

Forget about the Westies, they are merely glove puppets. The real players are the 'eastie boys'. They are very underground so you probably haven't heard of them unlike all those other mainstream conformist gangs.

Pottler

There are levels, basically. You have the Drugs side, which changes rapidly and is cyclical, has a lot of up and comers and is hard to track and very splintered but there are a few long term players that mostly live aborad and have lieutenants here. These are increasingly under pressure from Lithuanian and Russian gangs and that will get bigger as the eastern guys get more organised here(they're already organised at home, this is a franchise area).
Then, you have hard men who are never in any paper or ever arrested who deal in the traditional side of crime but also dabble(often big time)in drugs but usually as financiers more so than touching the stuff. Some are Travvelers, some aren't, but their rackets are prostitution, antiques, fencing stolen gear, smuggling and investing in straight businesses. These are older, experienced men, often very old-school and they are just not to be messed with. The guys under them would range from stone cold middle aged lads(lieutenants if you like) to gob5hites who are on the up and do the legwork.
In London, you have the Murphia, funny name, unfunny lads but are sound if you get on, not if you don't. There is one boss, pretty much, more of a businessman than a gangster on first impressions and an awful lot of satellite gangs that work together. Not going into details there anyway, but suffice it to say, tough lads. Like most "dumb Irish stereotypes", these guys are seriously smart and clued in and have fingers in pies everywhere.
Here at home you also have the Bikers, who when they're not fighting each other are also big enough time in the drugs and guns trade and have a reputation (often bull but somtimes well earned) as not to be messed with. They are also pretty well organised and do lot of work, so organised crime, yeah, probably. Other than these ones, you have a lot of very wealthy and ruthless foreign gangs, Travveler gangs who are well organised and loads of others. So yeah, mafia, we have that, it's just a bit different.

frag420

Remmy wrote: »

Forget about the Westies, they are merely glove puppets. The real players are the 'eastie boys'. They are very underground so you probably haven't heard of them unlike all those other mainstream conformist gangs.

They later had to change their name to Beastie Boys due to copyright infringement and threat of a law suit from an east London yardie gang.

It was the best move the eastie boys made as becomming The Beastie Boys they went on to be a critically acclaimed punk rock/rap group with several top ten hits around the world. It's was the ideal cover for their criminal shenanigans across the five boroughs.


True story!

pragmatic1

If you include some republican groups then very highly organised.

ScumLord

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've often wondered how the organised crime system works in Ireland. In College I did my FYP on New York organised crime in which I focused on the traditional 5 Mafia families. The Gambino, Lucchese, Colombo,

I think your mistaken there, Colombo was one of the good guys.

not yet

FYP is that mafia code for fook your pappa...? anyways say hello to ma little friend

nachocheese

Badly run groups of knackers, is what our crews amount to.

Thankfully they're killing eachother off though. It may be small numbers at the moment but each death is a plus for Irish society.

spitfireIRL

I can never take Irish organised crime seriously, in Ireland anyway. seems to me other gangs (Polish Russian Lithuanian) seem to run the show from what I've seen anyway. But i don't know very much about it i guess. As history states, we seem to be more hot headed (or were back then anyway) but if tv has taught us anything, it's keep your head down so the po-po don't come down on ya!

celticcrash

Look at the Dundon/McCarthy gang in Limerick, uneducated thick morons who botched up most jobs. There hitmen were always more thick morons trying to make a name for themselves. Nothing smart or intelligent about this gang.
But the papers made them out to be super mafia which put the fear into the general public.
How long did it take our justice system to deal with these voilent morans? around 10 years.
There was nothing organised about these criminals.
When our justice system cant handle a small few violent criminals they make out that these filth are super organised.
The Guardi has done a great job in locking up these gangs in Limerick.
But the wheels of justice is too slow for even these unorganised morons.

Caveman1

I'm going to get the papers get the papers

Real Life

spitfireIRL wrote: »

I can never take Irish organised crime seriously, in Ireland anyway. seems to me other gangs (Polish Russian Lithuanian) seem to run the show from what I've seen anyway. But i don't know very much about it i guess. As history states, we seem to be more hot headed (or were back then anyway) but if tv has taught us anything, it's keep your head down so the po-po don't come down on ya!

this is true. Irish people seem to like getting the attention.
Ive done a lot of research on the gangs in America, particularly the italian mafia and irish mobs. the italians are in a different league.
They were organised completely different like in the irish gangs the men at the head of the organisation did a lot of the dirty work themselves.
the italians were better at making themselves look clean and have men underneath them do all the work.

This may have something to do with the irish being known for being paranoid etc.
But even today in america, the black gangs that are running drugs etc are known to be harder to break down the the white one which would still have a big irish american connection.
I thin kits because the black gangs use code and hand signals for everything and are much more careful.

EclipsiumRasa

Keep the change, ya filthy animal! :pac:

Klim

celticcrash wrote: »

Look at the Dundon/McCarthy gang in Limerick, uneducated thick morans who botched up most jobs. There hitmen were always more thick morans trying to make a name for themselves. Nothing smart or intelligent about this gang.
But the papers made them out to be super mafia which put the fear into the general public.
How long did it take our justice system to deal with these voilent morans? around 10 years.
There was nothing organised about these criminals.
When our justice system cant handle a small few violent criminals they make out that these filth are super organised.
The Guardi has done a great job in locking up these gangs in Limerick.
But the wheels of justice is too slow for even these unorganised morans.

There's a Moran crew in Limerick now too? Ffs, it's hard to keep up.

Logical Fallacy

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've often wondered how the organised crime system works in Ireland. In College I did my FYP on New York organised crime in which I focused on the traditional 5 Mafia families. The Gambino, Lucchese, Colombo, Bonanno and Genovese. The only significant Irish gang in NY were the Westies who teamed with the Gambinos.

What I want to know is how organised is this crime in Ireland, do they run a similar organisational structure to the Mafia or are they as disorganised as the greasers make them out to be. Every article I read portrays the Irish as wreckless lunatics who don't possess the intelligence to run a proper 'family' (organised crime group)

Are you mental? Many scumbags in the organised crime world in Ireland were smart enough to get themselves labeled as political prisoners, allowing them to serve tiny sentences for murder.

Sounds pretty ****ing smart to me.

K3lso

The only gangsters in Ireland are the one's in Dail Eireann.

Finnt

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Read a book about Jimmy Coonan and the westies, holy crap, the level of violence that they'd use. Great book!

Hi any idea what the name of the book was?

SEPT 23 1989

Joking aside,I would say Fianna Fail

Tom_Cruise

I know Ireland is a tiny country with a small population,but i cant help but think that Irish crime and criminal gangs are amount to nothing when you compare them to organized crime/gangs in other country's.

I mean all the trouble over the years in Limerick...its such a small city.There was only a few murders over the years.

Ireland is very very safe place to live.

Media999

celticcrash wrote: »

Look at the Dundon/McCarthy gang in Limerick, uneducated thick morons who botched up most jobs. There hitmen were always more thick morons trying to make a name for themselves. Nothing smart or intelligent about this gang.
But the papers made them out to be super mafia which put the fear into the general public.
How long did it take our justice system to deal with these voilent morans? around 10 years.
There was nothing organised about these criminals.
When our justice system cant handle a small few violent criminals they make out that these filth are super organised.
The Guardi has done a great job in locking up these gangs in Limerick.
But the wheels of justice is too slow for even these unorganised morons.

Couldnt have said it better myself. Hits the nail on the head.

Thick fat nackers is all they are.

The real drug importers are the ones youve never heard of.

Son Of A Vidic

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What I want to know is how organised is this crime in Ireland

The Drumcondra Mafia had it down to a fine art, generally speaking though many mafiosi are recruited in a place called Dáil Eireann. I think it translates into - 'Who gives a fúck' or something along those lines. The selection process is pretty exclusive though and only the most talented, lying scum will gain admittance to the club.

An oath of incompetent is then taken on the nearest golf course, with a pint of Guinness in one hand and a large brown envelope in the other. A Banker stands at your right shoulder and a person called a 'Large Developer' from a land called NAMA, stands at you left.

Then you have another type of mafia called the 'criminal element', now these guys are scum and nasty pieces of work. Thankfully though, they haven't managed to achieve anywhere near the level of damage to the country, that the other shower has.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

You see, my wife, she has been most vocal on the subject of the pretzel monies. "Where's the money? "When are you going to get the money?" "Why aren't you getting the money now?" And so on. So please - the money.

MagicSean

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Thankfully though, they haven't managed to achieve anywhere near the level of damage to the country, that the other shower has.

Only true if you value money and the economy above actual lives.

tayto lover

There was a gang of burglars in Dundalk in the early 1980's who robbed many premises at night. On their last escapade they broke into (of all places) a pet shop through the roof. Once inside they couldn't get the front or back doors open and the owner called the Garda when he saw them huddled inside the shop on his arrival early next day. The were laughed at in court and everyone called them "The Pet Shop Boys" after that.

Triangular

Irish drug dealers are so thick, they have actually rearranged the measurement system to suit their mentally challenged minds. Nowadays a ounce of weed is not 28 but 25 grams. And an eighth is not 3.5, but 3grams. The prices have stayed the same, apart fromt the savages that sell 2grams or 2.2grams as 'eighths' for the same €50 price tag that 3.5 grams got you pre celtic tiger days. They have also been getting some of the lowest quality cocaine, xtc and weed on the european continent for years up until recently when the xtc quality has increased tenfold. A bit like the banking fiasco, our dealers and consumers take whatever's handed to them where as the foreigners demand better qualities.

Nobody has mentioned the triads yet. Probably because they are very underground and almost imposible for the gardai to obtain info on. I remember seeing a picture a few years back of the hardest gangsters in Limerick prison enjoying their christmas party and in the background were 3/4 asian dudes just sitting together. I would imagine they are pretty much left alone. A lot of these triads are sent here from asia by their families to sell drugs and send the proceeds back to asia. They rent houses all over the country and turn them into professional grow operations. The worst part about this is that these are the gangs that dip the weed buds into sand to increase its weight, which has terrible health consequences for your average clueless spliff smokers lungs.

Son Of A Vidic

MagicSean wrote: »

Only true if you value money and the economy above actual lives.

I can assure you, the ruination of this country has cost a lot more lives than any criminal feud. The question is, who are the bigger criminals?

MaxSteele

Christy Kinahan would be the only really serious organized crime boss to come out of Ireland. Well educated, who kept plenty of legit fronts and all that. Serving time in Spain now I think.

But in terms of organized crime families the nearest thing we have to a mafia or something mirroring the standard of organized crime in America, Russia, UK, the far east etc, are as already mentioned the inbred McCarthy-dundons, Fat Freddie and just local half wit scummers with a basic knowledge of selling drugs.

The Sunday World make up and over exaggerate any detail about anyone. I wouldn't put it past them to call a TV licence dodger "the dapper don".

FloatingVoter

The IRA were and are the only comparable organised crime outfit to the American mob. They have links to protection rackets, drug smuggling, extortion, numerous murders and even have a "respectable" political wing.
Like Cosa Nostra, their roots are traced back to small put-upon people standing up to the local landlord - thats gone - now its just big business.
The likes of the McCarthy/Dundon crowd pay the IRA to be allowed operate as localised gangsters.

Micky Dolenz

Thought the thread was about a new boy band.

MagicSean

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I can assure you, the ruination of this country has cost a lot more lives than any criminal feud. The question is, who are the bigger criminals?

The people who would stick a knife in you if they don't like the look of you or if they want your stuff. They are definitely the bigger criminals.

UglyBolloxFace

Tell the doctor to go suck a lemon.

tayto lover

MagicSean wrote: »

The people who would stick a knife in you if they don't like the look of you or if they want your stuff. They are definitely the bigger criminals.

They wouldn't be as rich though.

MagicSean

tayto lover wrote: »

They wouldn't be as rich though.

Would that really matter to you when you have a hole in your stomach?

"The government is withholding my grant until I pay the household charge"

versus

"They will kill me if i don't give them what they want"

How anyone can try and put these things on the same level is beyond me.

tayto lover

MagicSean wrote: »

Would that really matter to you when you have a hole in your stomach?

"The government is withholding my grant until I pay the household charge"

versus

"They will kill me if i don't give them what they want"

How anyone can try and put these things on the same level is beyond me.

There are many choosing to put holes in themselves because of what they feel was done to them by the other sort of gangsters.

charlemont

Media999 wrote: »

Couldnt have said it better myself. Hits the nail on the head.

Thick fat nackers is all they are.

The real drug importers are the ones youve never heard of.

The MCD's were only really footsoldiers for two far smarter men. A few other relatives of the MCD's would be well connected to serious crime figures though.

Christy Kinahan is the dog's bollocks of Irish crime, He is like our version of Scarface.

MagicSean

tayto lover wrote: »

There are many choosing to put holes in themselves because of what they feel was done to them by the other sort of gangsters.

Source?

daRobot

Triangular wrote: »

Irish drug dealers are so thick, they have actually rearranged the measurement system to suit their mentally challenged minds. Nowadays a ounce of weed is not 28 but 25 grams. And an eighth is not 3.5, but 3grams. The prices have stayed the same, apart fromt the savages that sell 2grams or 2.2grams as 'eighths' for the same €50 price tag that 3.5 grams got you pre celtic tiger days. They have also been getting some of the lowest quality cocaine, xtc and weed on the european continent for years up until recently when the xtc quality has increased tenfold. A bit like the banking fiasco, our dealers and consumers take whatever's handed to them where as the foreigners demand better qualities.

To be fair, from a business perspective, doing all of the above you've mentioned, actually makes them smart.

They're not 'getting' the lowest quality weed or coke, they're actively sourcing the worst product that the buyer will put up with, because there's more margin in it, than a more expensive product.

The coke they import is about 80% pure, by the time it reaches the public, you'd be looking at about 8% purity, plus a load of novocaine and other junk.

rubadubduba

Beware of the quite ones, the ones who run this country from the background. Business men with shady frinds you'd be surpised how many of them are behind some of the rackets in this country. just look at dublin how many businesses do you think are there, probably thousands of them. a thinking man's cap is his bank.

Triangular

daRobot wrote: »

To be fair, from a business perspective, doing all of the above you've mentioned, actually makes them smart.

They're not 'getting' the lowest quality weed or coke, they're actively sourcing the worst product that the buyer will put up with, because there's more margin in it, than a more expensive product.

The coke they import is about 80% pure, by the time it reaches the public, you'd be looking at about 8% purity, plus a load of novocaine and other junk.

Yeah perhaps the guys at the top think this, but after hammering thru 5 seasons of breaking bad in the last month, people buy more of a good thing then a bad one! I would say the only 80% pure cocaine that lands on these shores, is destined for our neighbours across the ponds.