23 Americans wanted for kidnapping in Italy

Zebra3

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/20/italy-rendition-convictions-americans

Italy's highest criminal court on Wednesday upheld the convictions of 23 Americans found guilty of kidnapping a Muslim cleric from a Milanese street and transferring him to a country where torture was permitted. The court of cassation's ruling is the final appeal in the world's first judicial review of the CIA practice of abducting terror suspects and transferring them to third countries, a practice also known as extraordinary rendition.

The 23 Americans were all convicted in absentia following a trial that lasted over three years. The verdict paves the way for the Italian government to seek redress and could put the Americans at risk of arrest if they travel to Europe.
........

So I assume there will be no delay in the US handing over these terrorists.

And why has there been no investigation into why the guards turned a blind eye to similar crimes in Ireland, and who ordered them to do so? :mad:

humanji

People were being kidnapped from Ireland?

I was reading somewhere that it's unlikely that they'll ever serve time, but they're all banned from Italy (though it might have been the whole of Europe.. can't remember) and risk being arrested if discovered.

bluecode

Zebra3 wrote: »

And why has there been no investigation into why the guards turned a blind eye to similar crimes in Ireland, and who ordered them to do so? :mad:

Probably because it never happened. Unless you have evidence otherwise?

Zebra3

humanji wrote: »

People were being kidnapped from Ireland?

No, kidnap victims were transferred through Ireland.

bluecode wrote: »

Probably because it never happened. Unless you have evidence otherwise?

Keep your eyes closed.

Augmerson

Deleted User wrote: »

I was reading somewhere that it's unlikely that they'll ever serve time, but they're all banned from Italy (though it might have been the whole of Europe.. can't remember) and risk being arrested if discovered.

Banned from Italy? Shyeeeeeet. Hope you can get Dr. Otker pizza's in the US.

cloptrop

Hasnt jim carey got a film about the number 23 . I flockin knew he was working for them .

humanji

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, kidnap victims were transferred through Ireland.

Oh, right. Thought you meant they were kidnapping us.

Wacker The Attacker

I wonder how many Italians have been caught kidnapping in america?

Slurryface

Zebra3 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/20/italy-rendition-convictions-americans



So I assume there will be no delay in the US handing over these terrorists.

And why has there been no investigation into why the guards turned a blind eye to similar crimes in Ireland, and who ordered them to do so? :mad:

Cant find a link to anyone being kidnapped by the CIA in Ireland, can you provide one please?

admiralofthefleet

Augmerson wrote: »

Banned from Italy? Shyeeeeeet. Hope you can get Dr. Otker pizza's in the US.

dr oatker is german

Zebra3

Slurryface wrote: »

Cant find a link to anyone being kidnapped by the CIA in Ireland, can you provide one please?

Can't understand the word "similar"? :rolleyes:

Kidnapping.

Facilitating kidnapping.

Similar.

The penny'll drop sooner or later.

Augmerson

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

dr oatker is german

:eek:

ejmaztec

This case is ancient, it was even mentioned when Amanda Knox was sentenced, saying that the Italian justice system went to town on her just because she was an American.

Slurryface

Zebra3 wrote: »

Can't understand the word "similar"? :rolleyes:

Kidnapping.

Facilitating kidnapping.

Similar.

The penny'll drop sooner or later.

Facilitating Kidnapping? get real, no kidnappings of this type happened in Ireland for the Garda to facilitate.
And less of the insults, if you are unsure as to how to post I suggest you consult the charter.

jimmy blevins

The CIA are welcome to take these lunatics off our hands. If they can't stand freedom of speech and the liberties offfered in the west they might appreciate it after a trip to cia rendition centre.

humanji

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

dr oatker is german

And I don't think he's even a doctor.

ejmaztec

humanji wrote: »

And I don't think he's even a doctor.

He was a doctor but I think he's well dead by now.:(

The company was founded by Dr. August Oetker in 1891

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Oetker

Capt'n Midnight

Don't expect the US to do much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_%281998%29

US pilots joyriding in Italy, hit a cable car line, 20 dead they then destroyed videotape evidence. One of the pilots served four and a half months.

on January 24, they received a formal warning for flying too low after a training take-off.
...
the EA-6B was flying somewhat faster and considerably lower than allowed by military regulations. The restrictions in effect at the time required a minimum flying height of 2,000 feet (610 m); the pilot said he thought they were at 1,000 feet (305 m). The cable was cut at a height of 360 feet (110 m).
...
The two men were court-martialed a second time for obstruction of justice and conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman, because they had destroyed a videotape recorded from the plane on the day of the accident.
...
They were found guilty in May 1999; both were dismissed from the service and the pilot received a six-month prison term. He was released after four and a half months for good behavior. Schweitzer made a plea agreement that came to full light after the military jury deliberated upon sentencing. His agreement prevented him from serving any prison time, but it did not prevent him from receiving a dismissal.

wes

jimmy blevins wrote: »

The CIA are welcome to take these lunatics off our hands. If they can't stand freedom of speech and the liberties offfered in the west they might appreciate it after a trip to cia rendition centre.

Your hardly one to talk about liberties, when you support something, that clearly goes against those liberties. Simply hypocrisy imho.

stoneill

Dr. Oetker is a kidnapper?

Slurryface

wes wrote: »

Your hardly one to talk about liberties, when you support something, that clearly goes against those liberties. Simply hypocrisy imho.

Nah. just real world politics. The world is full of nuts and wackjobs eager to pull of the next 9/11 style outrage, someone has to stop them before they do,
Yes its a little distastful, yes in an ideal world it would not be necessary, but this is not an ideal world and sometimes we have to do distastful things for the better good of our society.

gronemeyer

Basically they're banned for the whole of the Schengan area http://www.axa-schengen.com/en/schengen-countries and if they set foot in any of said countries or try to under their real identities if European arrest warrants are issued they'd have to be arrested on the spot (if discovered) and extradited to Italy...

Seaneh

Augmerson wrote: »

Banned from Italy? Shyeeeeeet. Hope you can get Dr. Otker pizza's in the US.

That's German...

wes

Slurryface wrote: »

Nah. just real world politics.

No, its hypocrisy, to go about liberties etc, while not believing in any of that stuff themselves.

If you don't believe in that stuff, then fair enough, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously, when you try and invoke freedom.

Slurryface wrote: »

The world is full of nuts and wackjobs eager to pull of the next 9/11 style outrage, someone has to stop them before they do,

Great, so charge them with something, and then put them on trial and put them in jail, if found guilty. There is already a system to deal with criminals.

Slurryface wrote: »

Yes its a little distastful, yes in an ideal world it would not be necessary, but this is not an ideal world and sometimes we have to do distastful things for the better good of our society.

It more than distasteful, I would call it terrorism at this point. Innocent people have been tortured and some have been tortured to death. That stuff is simply criminal in and of itself.

Also, the US has attacked civilian rescue workers, and people at funerals. Stuff that they say is evil, when its the ther guy doing it, but then it acceptable, when they do. Also, they target any adult male as a terrorist, until proven otherwise. If someone did that to American's they would be called a terrorist.

At this point, I see no difference between the 2 sides, what with both torturing and murders civilians as they please. The murder of rescue workers is particularly striking, due the 9/11 justification being offered up in defense. How are the US any better after murdering rescue workers?

JuliusCaesar

Extraordinary rendition = kidnapping

Yes, didn't they openly admit to bringing their "subjects" (kidnappees) through Shannon?

cloptrop

Why do people have a problem with this . Im happy in the knowledge the CIA are keeping **** safe .
Anyone says different is just a red tape loving beauracrat .

My name is URL

cloptrop wrote: »

Why do people have a problem with this . Im happy in the knowledge the CIA are keeping **** safe .

lmao

El Weirdo

cloptrop wrote: »

Why do people have a problem with this . Im happy in the knowledge the CIA are keeping **** safe .
Anyone says different is just a red tape loving beauracrat .

I'm on the phone at the moment so can someone else post the Team America video?

Cheers.

Zebra3

Slurryface wrote: »

Facilitating Kidnapping? get real, no kidnappings of this type happened in Ireland for the Garda to facilitate.
And less of the insults, if you are unsure as to how to post I suggest you consult the charter.

Maybe the penny'll drop with you that you're not a mod.

It's common knowledge that kidnap victims were shipped through this country by the US.

Even Dermot Ahern was convinced.

cloptrop

Zebra3 wrote: »

Slurryface wrote: »

Facilitating Kidnapping? get real, no kidnappings of this type happened in Ireland for the Garda to facilitate.
And less of the insults, if you are unsure as to how to post I suggest you consult the charter.

Maybe the penny'll drop with you that you're not a mod.

It's common knowledge that kidnap victims were shipped through this country by the US.

Even Dermot Ahern was convinced.

The fella that did big brother was in on it ?

Rented Mule

Augmerson wrote: »

Banned from Italy? Shyeeeeeet. Hope you can get Dr. Otker pizza's in the US.

The pizza in America blows away anything you'll find in Italy.

Even the German Pizza.

czx

wes wrote: »

At this point, I see no difference between the 2 sides, what with both torturing and murders civilians as they please. The murder of rescue workers is particularly striking, due the 9/11 justification being offered up in defense. How are the US any better after murdering rescue workers?

Anti-American at all costs

wes

czx wrote: »

Anti-American at all costs

So you can't dispute the facts that I pointed out? All, you have is a desperate and quite frankly silly little slur.

Being against the US bombing funerals and rescue workers (something you don't dispute happens btw), is not Anti-American. Its just Anti-murderous ass holes.

Now, I can only come to the conclusion that you support the US murder of civilians, as you called me Anti-American, soley for pointing the US murderous terrorism. Pretty sickening that anyone would defend the murder of civilians, due soley to the fact, it is the US that is doing it.

BTW, I have nothing against the average American. They seem to get pretty damn screwed over by there government half the time as well.

Also, a great deal of irony, is tha the source I posted for that was from an American website, and written by an American. If I truly had an irrational hate of them, as you claim, why would I be on one of there websites, and reading an American author?

czx

wes wrote: »

So you can't dispute the facts that I pointed out? All, you have is a desperate and quite frankly silly little slur.

Being against the US bombing funerals and rescue workers (something you don't dispute happens btw), is not Anti-American. Its just Anti-murderous ass holes.

Now, I can only come to the conclusion that you support the US murder of civilians, as you called me Anti-American, soley for pointing the US murderous terrorism. Pretty sickening that anyone would defend the murder of civilians, due soley to the fact, it is the US that is doing it.

BTW, I have nothing against the average American. They seem to get pretty damn screwed over by there government half the time as well.

Also, a great deal of irony, is tha the source I posted for that was from an American website, and written by an American. If I truly had an irrational hate of them, as you claim, why would I be on one of there websites, and reading an American author?

The US does not have a policy of targeting civilians. You choose not to believe this.

Your last paragraph sounds rather desperate.

wes

czx wrote: »

The US does not have a policy of targeting civilians. You choose not to believe this.

Yes, they do, and have taught others this policy of murder:

The School of the Americas: Class over?

Still, can't dispute a single thing I have posted I see. Your giving me a good laugh defending murder of civlians, as long as its done by the US, by pretending it didn't happen.

There even killing people, who they have no idea who they are:

White House approves broader Yemen drone campaign

The United States has begun launching drone strikes against suspected al-Qaeda operatives in Yemen under new authority approved by President Obama that allows the CIA and the military to fire even when the identity of those who could be killed is not known, U.S. officials said.

Click here for full article

Above emphasis mine. So there killing people, who they have no idea who they are as well. So basically, guilty until proven otherwise. If a Middle Eastern dictator tried to pull that crap, he would be roundly condemn, but as usual there is a seperate rule for the US.

czx wrote: »

Your last paragraph sounds rather desperate.

Coming from someone who can't dispute a single fact that I have pointed out, thats a bit rich. When, your arguement descends to, insisting you right solely on your say so, then you are in desperate place.

Nodin

jimmy blevins wrote: »

The CIA are welcome to take these lunatics off our hands. If they can't stand freedom of speech and the liberties offfered in the west they might appreciate it after a trip to cia rendition centre.

The ironing is strong in thee.

Capt'n Midnight

cloptrop wrote: »

Why do people have a problem with this . Im happy in the knowledge the CIA are keeping **** safe .
Anyone says different is just a red tape loving beauracrat .

Training and supplying arms to the Afghan mujahideen worked out well didn't it

czx

wes wrote: »

Yes, they do, and have taught others this policy of murder:

The School of the Americas: Class over?

Still, can't dispute a single thing I have posted I see. Your giving me a good laugh defending murder of civlians, as long as its done by the US, by pretending it didn't happen.

There even killing people, who they have no idea who they are:



Above emphasis mine. So there killing people, who they have no idea who they are as well. So basically, guilty until proven otherwise. If a Middle Eastern dictator tried to pull that crap, he would be roundly condemn, but as usual there is a seperate rule for the US.



Coming from someone who can't dispute a single fact that I have pointed out, thats a bit rich. When, your arguement descends to, insisting you right solely on your say so, then you are in desperate place.

The link you posted proved my point. The policy is to target operatives, not civilians. The US does not set out to murder civilians.

cloptrop

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

Why do people have a problem with this . Im happy in the knowledge the CIA are keeping **** safe .
Anyone says different is just a red tape loving beauracrat .

Training and supplying arms to the Afghan mujahideen worked out well didn't it

Yes the russians lost .

Zebra3

czx wrote: »

The link you posted proved my point. The policy is to target operatives, not civilians. The US does not set out to murder civilians.

Yep, they drop bombs in the middle of cities and if any civies are accidently killed they're collateral damage. :rolleyes:

cloptrop

Zebra3 wrote: »

czx wrote: »

The link you posted proved my point. The policy is to target operatives, not civilians. The US does not set out to murder civilians.

Yep, they drop bombs in the middle of cities and if any civies are accidently killed they're collateral damage. :rolleyes:

Ah come on dude you cant fight a war without killing the odd civilian . You cant even fight a gang war without some byestander getting in the way . Their governments are harboring them . Sure wasnt adolf even dropping bombs on us and we werent even fighting him.

jimmy blevins

wes wrote: »

Your hardly one to talk about liberties, when you support something, that clearly goes against those liberties. Simply hypocrisy imho.

There are limits to liberty, the common good trumps the rights of a small minority who want to destroy freedom because they think thier belief system is irrefutable.

Piliger

czx wrote: »

The US does not have a policy of targeting civilians. You choose not to believe this.

Your last paragraph sounds rather desperate.

Desperate is an understatement. There is a war going on where Westerners are being targeted by these terrorists. I am only irritated by the fact that these terrorists were picked up so publicly and the process was discovered. These people should have been quietly picked up and shipped out to face the consequences of their actions.

Piliger

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yep, they drop bombs in the middle of cities and if any civies are accidently killed they're collateral damage. :rolleyes:

And wow they do a fantastic job of it The Islamic terrorists on the other hand target ordinary people and slaughter as many of them as they can so that they can spend their time in heaven with a bunch of virgins..... how perverted is that.

Thank goodness for America.

Pottler

How.the.fcuk.did.it.take.23.of.them??? What are they, Fas? What were the other 21 doing? Sketch?

Zebra3

jimmy blevins wrote: »

There are limits to liberty, the common good trumps the rights of a small minority who want to destroy freedom because they think thier belief system is irrefutable.

So why bother with a legal system?

Just allow America to abduct whoever they want off the streets of Europe.

Do you think they always kidnap the "right people"?

wes

jimmy blevins wrote: »

There are limits to liberty, the common good trumps the rights of a small minority who want to destroy freedom because they think thier belief system is irrefutable.

What you propose destroys freedom. Again, if you don't believe in it, then fair enough, but lets stop pretending that you believe in freedom. If you believe in freedom, then you believe in laws etc. I have yet to see any good reason, why these guys can't be arrested and tried in courts in a lot of cases.

Then, there is the fact that the US has purposefully killed civilians. So quite frankly they aren't exactly shining examples of virtue themselves.

Seaneh

Rented Mule wrote: »

The pizza in America blows away anything you'll find in Italy.

Even the German Pizza.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshkO8HqQ10

Seaneh

cloptrop wrote: »

Ah come on dude you cant fight a war without killing the odd civilian . You cant even fight a gang war without some byestander getting in the way . Their governments are harboring them . Sure wasnt adolf even dropping bombs on us and we werent even fighting him.

THE ODD CIVILIAN?!

118,000 civilians have died in Iraq SO FAR and the count goes on.


Get a ****ing grip.

cloptrop

Its the horrors of guerrilla war. I think the spy thing with the kidnapping is better thanthe bombing . Up the cia . Prisoners bein taken out of the country with nobody getting killed. Its the ones who use the bombing tactics that are bad .
I say leave em too it .