Ìmporting from US/Canada - issues that appear

Thirdfox

Hi guys,

I was reading up on the procedures on importing from abroad and a few things/questions cropped up.

According to the DoJ you need to have a firearm licence for the gun before applying for the import licence:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Individuals

I was wondering - on the firearm licence application how would you fill in the details of 3.3 - source of firearm?
see example here http://10point9.ie/how-do-i-apply-for-a-firearms-licence/

The gun dealer won't have a PULSE... worse still if I buy from a pure air pistol/rifle dealer they won't even be a gun dealer in the US/Canada. What do people do in this situation?

Second, the DoJ tells me I need to put in which category of firearm I'm importing (A-D). This is based in EU legislation:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1991L0477:20080728:EN:PDF

But..."firearm" is defined in the legislation as:
any portable barrelled weapon that expels, is designed to expel or may be
converted to expel a shot, bullet or projectile by the action of a combustible propellant

An air gun isn't a firearm under the EU legislation and the categories A-D under Annex I (pg 12 of the pdf) which is what is used in the DoJ's application form replicates the EU categories.

Even if the DoJ defines firearm differently, it seems that an air pistol doesn't sit into any category either (i.e. a single shot short firearm isn't provided for).

Any advice guys? I would write a letter into the DoJ or my local Garda station but I thought I'd check to see if anyone has some real life experience first.

Kind regards,

Third

Cass

Thirdfox wrote: »

According to the DoJ you need to have a firearm licence for the gun before applying for the import licence:

Correct.

I was wondering - on the firearm licence application how would you fill in the details of 3.3 - source of firearm?

The gun dealer won't have a PULSE... worse still if I buy from a pure air pistol/rifle dealer they won't even be a gun dealer in the US/Canada. What do people do in this situation?

If the place you are buying from does not need a dealer's license due to the regulations of that country then i would mark it as a private sale. IOW Private source.

Second, the DoJ tells me I need to put in which category of firearm I'm importing (A-D). ................................................................... Even if the DoJ defines firearm differently, it seems that an air pistol doesn't sit into any category either (i.e. a single shot short firearm isn't provided for).

So you are looking at an air pistol?

I imagine it falls under Category C. A single shot, rifled barreled short firearm. While not defined as such under EU law, it is under Irish. As an unrestricted firearm it falls into the same category as a single shot short firearm using rimfire ammunition. Therefore Category C.

Thirdfox

Ezridax wrote: »

If the place you are buying from does not need a dealer's license due to the regulations of that country then i would mark it as a private sale. IOW Private source.

Second, the DoJ tells me I need to put in which category of firearm I'm importing (A-D). ................................................................... Even if the DoJ defines firearm differently, it seems that an air pistol doesn't sit into any category either (i.e. a single shot short firearm isn't provided for).

So you are looking at an air pistol?

I imagine it falls under Category C. A single shot, rifled barreled short firearm. While not defined as such under EU law, it is under Irish. As an unrestricted firearm it falls into the same category as a single shot short firearm using rimfire ammunition. Therefore Category C.

Thanks Ezridax, but section 3.4 for source of firearm from private asks for previous firearm cert number (I imagine because it's aimed at sales from private owners within Ireland), would this require extra explanation? Or is that what the IOW stands for?

It's probably the lawyer in me but that's the reason why I thought they kinda specifically excluded air pistol since while it can be defined as a firearm under Irish law even then it isn't a rim fire firearm. And the categories do appear to state they are a completely inclusive i.e every tyoe of firearm that falls into a category has been listed. It's just awkward because I imagine the rest of the EU doesn't treat air arms as firearms and didn't make provision for non- rim fire and centre fire short firearms...

That is me being pedantic and legally stringent. However I don't want the DoJ throwing a hissy fit and stating that under my interpretation it would be impossible to obtain an air pistol import licence then! So I might just go with C.

Unless someone local wants to reply to my wanted ad on the sales subforum? (IZH-64M)

Cass

Thirdfox wrote: »

Thanks Ezridax, but section 3.4 for source of firearm from private asks for previous firearm cert number (I imagine because it's aimed at sales from private owners within Ireland), would this require extra explanation? Or is that what the IOW stands for?

Apologies.

IOW is shorthand for In other Words. Just a phrase when writing on forums.

It's just awkward because I imagine the rest of the EU doesn't treat air arms as firearms and didn't make provision for non- rim fire and centre fire short firearms...

In every other EU country, and most if not all states in the USA, air rifles are not classified as a firearm, and hence do not need a license. There is a legal distinction between a license, and an authorisatin as you most likely already know. So while some require the owner to have an authorisation or to register the firearm this may not equate to a license (as we have them), and as such may be a "hassle", but by no means should be a cause for concern.

I will not pretend to know exactly what is needed, but i think you have it right with your question;

Thirdfox wrote:

.............would this require extra explanation?

I believe that would be all that is required. what form that explanation takes to satisfy the DoJ could be as simple as a letter from the seller stating the country/state they live in, and that that firearm is not deemed as such hence no license/authorisation is available.

That is me being pedantic and legally stringent. However I don't want the DoJ throwing a hissy fit and stating that under my interpretation it would be impossible to obtain an air pistol import licence then! So I might just go with C.

You are dead right. Any mistake on your behalf, although accidental or as a consequence of the variations between laws in the different countries, will result in the application being refused or returned.

I would definitely ring te FPU (Firearms Policy Unit). Ask them for the best course of action, and how to proceed. They are a good bunch of lads, easy to talk to, and give the best/most accurate advice.

As for the clasification, i would bet on C, but when onto the FPU confirm this.

Sparks

Ezridax wrote: »

As for the clasification, i would bet on C, but when onto the FPU confirm this.

C would seem most likely. If the dealer is outside the state though, I just wouldn't fill in the PULSE number and would mention it to the FO when handing it in. But the last time I did this, it was under a different system...

Kramer

If importing from outside the EU, you don't need a Dept. of Justice issued import permit - your domestic firearm's licence serves as your import authorization. Our DOJ will probably send you a letter confirming this on application which you will need to provide to the exporting country.

Thirdfox

Hi Kramer,

It seems to suggest on the DoJ website that individuals importing from outside EU require some form of "transfer document" from the DoJ (I assumed that meant an import permit).
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Individuals#import_non_eu

DoJ wrote:

Individuals importing from a country which is not a member of the EU:

Read these instructions carefully before submitting your application.

Complete the application form (MS Word - 50KB) fully

Make sure you have filled in:
(a) the exact make and model of the firearm
(b) the correct category A-D (PDF - 17KB)

Attach to the application a copy of the valid firearms certificate for the firearm or ammunition to be imported.

You can fill in the form using type or in handwriting. If completing it in handwriting please use black ink and block capitals.

Forward the documentation to the Crime 4 Division of The Department of Justice and Equality. We will issue a transfer document to you which you can use to legally import the firearms and/or ammunition.

Sparks

Asked the DoJ, here's the reply:

DoJ wrote:

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Individuals#import

Yes- the person would need a firearms cert. and can then apply for an
import licence to this Office- see link above which also has the relevant
application form

Kramer

Obviously, a firearms licence is required for the firearm to be imported. However, no import permit is required or is usually issued if the import is from outside the EU. I say "usually" as the DOJ did once give me an import permit to help with the export of a firearm from the US.
More recently though they have just sent out a letter confirming no import permit is required (or will be issued) as the import is from outside the EU.
That was recently & I have the letter. I can dig it out to check the exact wording if necessary.
Sparks DOJ quote would seem to differ however so either the law has changed over the last few weeks or whoever answered him wasn't aware of the current rules?
It did say "may apply" though rather than "must apply" so maybe they just want people to apply so they can keep a record of what is being imported.