(US) Boy, 13, to be tried as an adult after killing his 2-year-old brother

leverarch12

OldNotWIse wrote: »

If he's tried as a child he'll be out in a few years. Woudl you be happy with him walking the streets? Would you let him mind your two year old when he's older?

No one is saying they would let him mind a baby so dont be so stupid.

He is only 13 and could very easily change his life around. Noway should he be sent to prison but instead to a rehablitation centre and maybe in a couple of years he can be a functioning member of society.

Tombi!

leverarch12 wrote: »

No one is saying they would let him mind a baby so dont be so stupid.

He is only 13 and could very easily change his life around. Noway should he be sent to prison but instead to a rehablitation centre and maybe in a couple of years he can be a functioning member of society.

And in the meanwhile after he attends his few hours of rehabilitation, what will he be doing then? Back out on the streets, right?

Sleepy

I'd suggest whichever social-worker that made the final call on deeming that to be a suitable environment to leave a 12 year old girl who'd suffered from sexual abuse attempt to raise a child should be joining him in the dock.

leverarch12

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

And in the meanwhile after he attends his few hours of rehabilitation, what will he be doing then? Back out on the streets, right?

I said a few years and yes back on the streets just like everyone else who commits a crime.
At 13 he will be influenced very easily and could turn his life around much faster than an adult who has murdered someone.
You do realise that murderers are quite often released right?

Tombi!

leverarch12 wrote: »

I said a few years and yes back on the streets just like everyone else who commits a crime.
At 13 he will be influenced very easily and could turn his life around much faster than an adult who has murdered someone.
You do realise that murderers are quite often released right?

Yes, if they're able to be released. He killed someone, put him in prison and try to help him. Not try to help him and let him out and hope he'll be normal

hatrickpatrick

My opinion on cases like these is perfectly straightforward:
Children should NEVER be tried as adults. Ever.

Why do we differentiate between the age of reason and childhood, if a government or court can simply suspend that? Either children below a certain age are not capable of adult judgement or they are.

It's absolutely nonsensical and ridiculous to create a separate set of laws for children, and then allow a court to simply bypass that. Why do we even have laws about the age of reason/majority if we can so frequently just throw them away?

666irishguy

I'd say he will never be a normal functioning member of society considering the amount of violence he has seen in his formative years. It's already too late for him. It may not be the nicest opinion voiced, but unfortunately the general public may just be safer if he is locked up. I can't see how he would recover from this. He would most likely end up on the streets and perhaps homeless or in a life of crime. He has no prospect of a job as he will most likely be unemployable and would obviously have serious social issues. The social care system has failed him utterly though, I would agree with prosecuting the idiots who let this go on until it reached this outcome.

Nichololas

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

He is being given special treatment. He's a child, being tried as an adult.

allibastor

all i can say is holy ****ing ****. how the hell did that family go under the radar of the social services there. should they not have some form of apportionment for blame in letting this kind of stuff happen.

davet82

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

You don't know (or maybe I can't read the article properly:P).

I thought if you get life, you're still given chances at parole. Sure didn't Charles Manson only appeal it a few years ago?

i already said its anyones guess how this pans out in all fairness

the length of the sentence is going to be a big stretch anyways, regardless i dont think prison (juvie) is suitabale for this kid, the state failed him and should provide him with a place where he (if) can be reabilitated, i think he is owed that much?

asherbassad

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

Are you fcuking deranged? How is this kid supposed to know the difference between right and wrong? A day hasn't gone by where he's been taught the difference.

FouxDaFaFa

Jesus, that's probably the most fcuked up, dysfunctional family I've heard about. The cycle just wasn't broken from generation to generation.

Talk about a system failure.

Mam of 4

Can someone tell me if he's going to be tried as an adult,does that mean he'd be imprisoned in an adults prison then? If he was sent to an adults prison,surely that couldn't be the right place for him either? Imo

Tombi!

asherbassad wrote: »

Are you fcuking deranged? How is this kid supposed to know the difference between right and wrong? A day hasn't gone by where he's been taught the difference.

He gets a punch from a grown man so he knows that a blow to the head hurts.
He then decided to smash a 2 year old's head in.

I don't think I'm the deranged one at all.

Boombastic

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yeah, especially the little baby who was left to die after his head was smashed in.

While his mother spent 4 hours googling 'concussion' and 'head injuries' on the internet while the infant lay dying


This boy is fcuked up because of his family life. He shouldn't be tried as an adult, but given treatment in a secure mental unit, he is also a victim in all of this. For all we know he might have been thinking 'I'll save this baby from getting raped and having the same sh1t life I had' flawed logic but then the whole situation is messed up. Social workers and others also need to be held account along with the mother,father, grandmother and other extended family members.

EdenHazard

He killed his little bro, he's scum. He's had such a tough life but that's his little brother, they were in it together.

lecker Hendl

he's got his mother's nose and lips.

OU812

That's a future serial killer off the streets.

Not 100% his fault based on upbringing, but come 15/16, that kid would have started cutting people up & stashing body parts all over town.

The whole family need to be tried in this case though, they all contributed to the death.

up for anything

EdenHazard wrote: »

He killed his little bro, he's scum. He's had such a tough life but that's his little brother, they were in it together.

Sentimental claptrap. His little brother was around for two years and his arrival might quite possibly have made his life harder. When you've had to protect yourself and your emotions for the guts of 12 years, you don't suddenly develop family feeling unless it's of the wrong kind like he had been subjected to himself.

It's a dog eat dog world when you have no one but yourself to rely on.

Tombi!

up for anything wrote: »

Sentimental claptrap. His little brother was around for two years and his arrival might quite possibly have made his life harder. When you've had to protect yourself and your emotions for the guts of 12 years, you don't suddenly develop family feeling unless it's of the wrong kind like he had been subjected to himself.

It's a dog eat dog world when you have no one but yourself to rely on.

He got punched in the head. He knows it hurts. So why would he think it's a good idea to smash someone's head off a solid object?

metaoblivia

I'm from the state of Florida and happen to work in an attorney's office, and one of our attorney's formerly worked as a state prosecutor, so I asked him about this situation.

Firstly, if this child is convicted as an adult, he will likely be sent to a juvenile facility until the age of 18 when he will be transferred to an adult prison. In the event that a juvenile facility doesn't 'fit' for whatever reason, he can be sent to an adult prison, but would be segregated from the adult population until the age of 18. This is a very unlikely scenario given his age, but it's happened with older minors (16, 17) in some rare circumstances.

Trying him as a minor would mean that he would be released at 18 with a sealed record (parts of which could follow him, legally, up to the age of 24). And there's no trying him again after that. So the reasoning for trying him as an adult is to prevent him from being released at 18 (and you can't get away with doing this at a much younger age than 12; in fact, Florida had handed down a life sentence to a 12 year old before and it got over turned on appeal because of the defendant's age).

The other issue is the issue of criminal intent. The article says the boy smashed his brother's head against shelf, which eventually led to his death, but it doesn't say how many times, etc. Was this a violent, repeated attack or is this just a kid who doesn't understand boundaries? The article also said the older boy had broken the younger boy's leg a few weeks earlier while wrestling. That suggests that it might be the latter (not understanding boundaries).

Also, the child eventually died because of lack of medical care (it was reported that medical examiners said the child could have survived had he been taken to the hospital), and the onus there falls on the mother who spent 4 hours on the internet while the toddler lay dying. As an adult and as the child's mother, she does have a legal responsibility to get that child medical aid. So a good deal of culpability when it comes to the child's death rests with her.

In short, my attorney did think that the kid should be tried as an adult because he believes the prison system - including juvie - is not based around rehabilitation, and this kid would need tons of rehabilitation and intervention to be a contributing member of society. In his opinion, this kid is lost; he's just going to come out of juvie or prison with the skill set of a criminal. But he also thinks the prosecution has probably overshot on the charges and won't be successful in getting the convictions they're pursuing because of the child's age, the issue of criminal intent, the mother's inability to get her children the support they need, and the years of abuse the boy has had to endure.

And me personally - I don't know. I think 13 is very young to be tried as an adult, and I would like to know more details about what happened between him and his brother. I think a lot of his sexual misconduct can be explained as him being a victim of sexual abuse himself and acting out as a result of that. My major concern is, I don't see him getting the help he needs in either situation - being tried as a minor or as an adult. I feel like no matter what he's being set up for a life in and out of prison, and there are no good solutions at this point.

aaronjumper

Jesus Christ. Just when you think the world cannot get any worse.

3ndahalfof6

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

He got punched in the head. He knows it hurts. So why would he think it's a good idea to smash someone's head off a solid object?

It is probably his response to being annoyed, (crying child), maybe when he received his punch to the head he was told, shut up or else, and then received else, so he applied the same theory,

no one knows the whys, we can only guess, but one thing for sure is he never got a great start (or his mother), very very sad situation.

haulagebasher

The whole saga is warped in the extreme.

Another thing, now I'm not a racist but does anyone else find it odd that these type of cases involving abuse, neglect, drugs, murder etc have a slightly greater tendency to occur with members of the Hispanic community.

666irishguy

haulagebasher wrote: »

The whole saga is warped in the extreme.

Another thing, now I'm not a racist but does anyone else find it odd that these type of cases involving abuse, neglect, drugs, murder etc have a slightly greater tendency to occur with members of the Hispanic community.

Generally they are amongst the poorest in a lot of areas, and where there's poverty and no hope there's usually ****e loads of drugs and alcohol. I'd say exposure to adults abusing substances and being off their head on booze 24/7 has a lot to do with the upbringing of everybody this case.

3ndahalfof6

haulagebasher wrote: »

The whole saga is warped in the extreme.

Another thing, now I'm not a racist but does anyone else find it odd that these type of cases involving abuse, neglect, drugs, murder etc have a slightly greater tendency to occur with members of the Hispanic community.

I am guessing you have some links and facts to your assumption, or is it just from watching movies.

up for anything

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

He got punched in the head. He knows it hurts. So why would he think it's a good idea to smash someone's head off a solid object?

I doubt he actually thought that it was a good idea and I'm sure like probably many chronically, terribly, physically abused children he has gone beyond the idea of feeling compassion and hurt. It is just a fact of life to him - as he told a counsellor "you've got to suck up feelings and get over it". It was probably an action born out of anger, frustration and a complete lack of empathy.

Considering the quote below is just an outline of the bare bones of his existence it can be no wonder that it happened.

Fernandez was born in Miami, Florida in 1999 to Biannela Susana, who was just 12. The boy's 25-year-old father received 10 years' probation for sexually assaulting her.

Two years later, both mother and son went to foster care after authorities found the toddler filthy, naked and walking in the street at 4am near the motel where his grandmother, who was taking care of him, was found surrounded by cocaine.

In 2007, when Fernandez was eight, the Department of Children and Families investigated a report that he was sexually molested by an older cousin.

Officials noted there were other troubling incidents: he killed a kitten; he simulated sex with classmates; he masturbated at school.

The boy learned to squelch his feelings, once telling a counselor: 'You got to suck up feelings and get over it.'

darced

This post has been deleted.

Millicent

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why? Stuff like this happens all over the world, sadly.

timewilltell

Where was social services? Why wasn't this childtaken from the mother following the time he was found roaming the streets as a 2 year old?

Ugh.:mad: