(US) Boy, 13, to be tried as an adult after killing his 2-year-old brother

davet82

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204144/Cristian-Fernandez-The-sad-past-boy-13-tried-adult-killing-2-year-old-brother.html

What a tragic story...

I don't think he should be tried as an adult if anything I think the child needs help!

Some kids really do not have a chance...

TheBody

He has almost no chance of becoming a functioning member of society. Seriously screwed up stuff there.

mitosis

It's not his fault he's the way he is, but he is that way now. He needs locking up - not for punishment, but because he is not suited to be in the community at large.

dark crystal

How utterly utterly sad.

I wonder just how many times these poor children were failed by the system...

suicide_circus

At 13 he is a child, clearly an extremely damaged child but a child nonetheless.
How can you try a child as an adult? That dosnt even make sense.

IvyTheTerrible

There is something wrong with a society that lets a child live in such conditions, and then expects him to take adult responsibility for his resulting actions.

The Cool

Tragic - definitely a case of nurture over nature here.
He never had a chance really.

Tombi!

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

Riddle101

That whole family is a disgrace. It's like the family is cursed or something. The mother, grand mother, father, step father they're all screwed up. It's no wonder the kid turned out the way he did. Trully tragic indeed.

Martyn1989

Why are they naming him and publishing his pics?

Benny_Cake

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

I don't think anyone is calling for special treatment, but trying him as an adult is an outrage. It's a tragic story, some kids don't stand a chance.

Tombi!

Martyn1989 wrote: »

Why are they naming him and publishing his pics?

I think they're allowed to because he's being tried as an adult?

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I don't think anyone is calling for special treatment, but trying him as an adult is an outrage. It's a tragic story, some kids don't stand a chance.

He is being given a chance; he's getting the chance to live his life. He murdered someone. It's not manslaughter. It's not an accident. He has a lot more of a chance compared to the brother of his.

mackg

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

By trying a 13 year old as an adult they are in effect giving him special treatment in a negative way though. If tried as an adult will he be sent to an adult prison? That definitely shouldn't happen. We are effectively talking about a max ~70 year sentence for a crime he committed when he was twelve.

Benny_Cake

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I don't think anyone is calling for special treatment, but trying him as an adult is an outrage. It's a tragic story, some kids don't stand a chance.

I think it's not fair on him to be tried as an adult, but at the same time, I think it would be irresponsible to put him in a juvenile facility with other children given his history.

davet82

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

just? :eek:

this kid is a product of his envirnoment, he's not getting special treatment but he should be!

idk if the damage can be reversed... but trying him as an adult and locking him up for life is wrong imo

christ on a bike!

The mother is, understandably, getting a lot of abuse. But then you see that she had him when she was just 12, no doubt she is a product of her own upbringing also.
It's stange though as people generally don't give as much, if any, sympathy to the adult but they would to the child. But when this child becomes an adult and commits a crime there will be the usual cries for "lock him up and throw away the key" and "bring back the death penalty"

But he is a child now and it's very sad. I still don't understand, or even see, the reasoning for trying a child as an adult?

Benny_Cake

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

He is being given a chance; he's getting the chance to live his life. He murdered someone. It's not manslaughter. It's not an accident. He has a lot more of a chance compared to the brother of his.

There is a reason why minors are charged as minors and not as adults. I don't see why this should be suspended just because a crime is especially heinous (as far as I know Florida law allows this). Someone is either a minor or they aren't.

OldNotWIse

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I don't think anyone is calling for special treatment, but trying him as an adult is an outrage. It's a tragic story, some kids don't stand a chance.

Yeah, especially the little baby who was left to die after his head was smashed in.

Skate Nutter

We have no problems by comparison.

Tombi!

mackg wrote: »

By trying a 13 year old as an adult they are in effect giving him special treatment in a negative way though. If tried as an adult will he be sent to an adult prison? That definitely shouldn't happen. We are effectively talking about a max ~70 year sentence for a crime he committed when he was twelve.

This isn't like he decided to steal a few thousand euro or put someone's windows in because he didn't like them.
It's murder. Not accidental or in defense or anything. I'd get if he happened to get into a fight and it was from that. But he smashed his 2 year old's head in.

This is just like the Jamie Bolger case all over again. Except unlike then, people were crying for harsher punishments instead of now.

davet82 wrote: »

just? :eek:

this kid is a product of his envirnoment, he's not getting special treatment but he should be!

idk if the damage can be reversed... but trying him as an adult and locking him up for life is wrong imo

It might be wrong in your opinion but having a murderer and someone that abuses a 5 year old sexually out on the streets isn't something that makes me comfortable at all.

Benny_Cake wrote: »

There is a reason why minors are charged as minors and not as adults. I don't see why this should be suspended just because a crime is especially heinous (as far as I know Florida law allows this). Someone is either a minor or they aren't.

But being tried as an adult shows how serious of an incident it is, no? Murdering someone (on purpose like the boy did) is ending someone's existence. Being told you'll be in prison for your life after taking someone's life on purpose isn't that bad.

Benny_Cake

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yeah, especially the little baby who was left to die after his head was smashed in.

Yes indeed, the whole story is a sad one. I'm not saying the 13 year-old should get off scott-free (clearly he shouldn't), just that he isn't an adult and shouldn't be tried as one.

Also, trying to understand how it came to pass that a child bashed his two-year old brother's skull in may help to prevent such things happening in future. As another poster said, reading the story would lead you to the conclusion that with such a f**ked up family, this is nurture not nature.

davet82

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

It might be wrong in your opinion but having a murderer and someone that abuses a 5 year old sexually out on the streets isn't something that makes me comfortable at all.

it would make extremely uncomfortable! the kid should not be out on the streets but in the same breath shouldn't spend the rest of life in prison.

I do not think you can hold this child accountable for his actions because of the physical/mental/sexual abuse he has suffered and because of his age.

He needs help but maybe its too late.... idk

Tombi!

davet82 wrote: »

it would make extremely uncomfortable! the kid should not be out on the streets but in the same breath shouldn't spend the rest of life in prison.

I do not think you can hold this child accountable for his actions because of the physical/mental/sexual abuse he has suffered and because of his age.

He needs help but maybe its too late.... idk

I could have been abusing other kids at his age just because I was abused as a child too but I knew what was right and wrong. Maybe he can't be held accountable but if he shows that he can be let out in the future I'd imagine he would.

Benny_Cake

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

But being tried as an adult shows how serious of an incident it is, no? Murdering someone (on purpose like the boy did) is ending someone's existence. Being told you'll be in prison for your life after taking someone's life on purpose isn't that bad.

The seriousness of the incident stands regardless of the age of the perpetrator though, surely? If he poses a risk to society, then he should have to spend as long in prison until it can be shown otherwise, and if that is life, so be it. But it would make more sense to just try all minors as adults, at least it would be consistent.

SEPT 23 1989

The poor innocent baby i hate reading stories about

something that cant defend itself be it a baby or an animal:mad:

OldNotWIse

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Yes indeed, the whole story is a sad one. I'm not saying the 13 year-old should get off scott-free (clearly he shouldn't), just that he isn't an adult and shouldn't be tried as one.

Also, trying to understand how it came to pass that a child bashed his two-year old brother's skull in may help to prevent such things happening in future. As another poster said, reading the story would lead you to the conclusion that with such a f**ked up family, this is nurture not nature.

If he's tried as a child he'll be out in a few years. Woudl you be happy with him walking the streets? Would you let him mind your two year old when he's older?

Tombi!

Benny_Cake wrote: »

The seriousness of the incident stands regardless of the age of the perpetrator though, surely? If he poses a risk to society, then he should have to spend as long in prison until it can be shown otherwise, and if that is life, so be it. But it would make more sense to just try all minors as adults, at least it would be consistent.

I don't think minors can be said to spend life in prison. Well I think they have to be re-tried or something at age 18 (not too sure on the America law system).

Plus there is still capital punishment in Florida so I dunno if it's really about trying him as an adult and having him just in for life or actually carrying on with trying to execute him.

davet82

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I could have been abusing other kids at his age just because I was abused as a child too but I knew what was right and wrong. Maybe he can't be held accountable but if he shows that he can be let out in the future I'd imagine he would.

he needs treatment but i dont think prison is where he will get it, i agree he shouldnt be allowed out til he is passed fit to intergrate with society but this is america we're talkin about so its anyones guess what will happen.

Tombi!

davet82 wrote: »

he needs treatment but i dont think prison is where he will get it, i agree he shouldnt be allowed out til he is passed fit to intergrate with society but this is america we're talkin about so its anyones guess what will happen.

True but at least the system is trying. It's better to say "lock him up and get him help" (which I have faith will happen) instead of "give him a few years in juvie then let him out".

davet82

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

True but at least the system is trying. It's better to say "lock him up and get him help" (which I have faith will happen) instead of "give him a few years in juvie then let him out".

I agree but what is happening here he will be tried as an adult and he'll be locked up for life, full stop.

Tombi!

davet82 wrote: »

I agree but what is happening here he will be tried as an adult and he'll be locked up for life, full stop.

You don't know (or maybe I can't read the article properly:P).

I thought if you get life, you're still given chances at parole. Sure didn't Charles Manson only appeal it a few years ago?

leverarch12

OldNotWIse wrote: »

If he's tried as a child he'll be out in a few years. Woudl you be happy with him walking the streets? Would you let him mind your two year old when he's older?

No one is saying they would let him mind a baby so dont be so stupid.

He is only 13 and could very easily change his life around. Noway should he be sent to prison but instead to a rehablitation centre and maybe in a couple of years he can be a functioning member of society.

Tombi!

leverarch12 wrote: »

No one is saying they would let him mind a baby so dont be so stupid.

He is only 13 and could very easily change his life around. Noway should he be sent to prison but instead to a rehablitation centre and maybe in a couple of years he can be a functioning member of society.

And in the meanwhile after he attends his few hours of rehabilitation, what will he be doing then? Back out on the streets, right?

Sleepy

I'd suggest whichever social-worker that made the final call on deeming that to be a suitable environment to leave a 12 year old girl who'd suffered from sexual abuse attempt to raise a child should be joining him in the dock.

leverarch12

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

And in the meanwhile after he attends his few hours of rehabilitation, what will he be doing then? Back out on the streets, right?

I said a few years and yes back on the streets just like everyone else who commits a crime.
At 13 he will be influenced very easily and could turn his life around much faster than an adult who has murdered someone.
You do realise that murderers are quite often released right?

Tombi!

leverarch12 wrote: »

I said a few years and yes back on the streets just like everyone else who commits a crime.
At 13 he will be influenced very easily and could turn his life around much faster than an adult who has murdered someone.
You do realise that murderers are quite often released right?

Yes, if they're able to be released. He killed someone, put him in prison and try to help him. Not try to help him and let him out and hope he'll be normal

hatrickpatrick

My opinion on cases like these is perfectly straightforward:
Children should NEVER be tried as adults. Ever.

Why do we differentiate between the age of reason and childhood, if a government or court can simply suspend that? Either children below a certain age are not capable of adult judgement or they are.

It's absolutely nonsensical and ridiculous to create a separate set of laws for children, and then allow a court to simply bypass that. Why do we even have laws about the age of reason/majority if we can so frequently just throw them away?

666irishguy

I'd say he will never be a normal functioning member of society considering the amount of violence he has seen in his formative years. It's already too late for him. It may not be the nicest opinion voiced, but unfortunately the general public may just be safer if he is locked up. I can't see how he would recover from this. He would most likely end up on the streets and perhaps homeless or in a life of crime. He has no prospect of a job as he will most likely be unemployable and would obviously have serious social issues. The social care system has failed him utterly though, I would agree with prosecuting the idiots who let this go on until it reached this outcome.

Nichololas

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

He is being given special treatment. He's a child, being tried as an adult.

allibastor

all i can say is holy ****ing ****. how the hell did that family go under the radar of the social services there. should they not have some form of apportionment for blame in letting this kind of stuff happen.

davet82

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

You don't know (or maybe I can't read the article properly:P).

I thought if you get life, you're still given chances at parole. Sure didn't Charles Manson only appeal it a few years ago?

i already said its anyones guess how this pans out in all fairness

the length of the sentence is going to be a big stretch anyways, regardless i dont think prison (juvie) is suitabale for this kid, the state failed him and should provide him with a place where he (if) can be reabilitated, i think he is owed that much?

asherbassad

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Just because he's a 13 year old that was in an abusive home doesn't mean he should be given special treatment for murder.

If it was an accident, sure. But come on, physically smashing someone's head against an object isn't really an accident.

Yes, it's a pity that his life has been so hard. But at the very least, he's just going to be sent in for life and not killed.

Are you fcuking deranged? How is this kid supposed to know the difference between right and wrong? A day hasn't gone by where he's been taught the difference.

FouxDaFaFa

Jesus, that's probably the most fcuked up, dysfunctional family I've heard about. The cycle just wasn't broken from generation to generation.

Talk about a system failure.

Mam of 4

Can someone tell me if he's going to be tried as an adult,does that mean he'd be imprisoned in an adults prison then? If he was sent to an adults prison,surely that couldn't be the right place for him either? Imo

Tombi!

asherbassad wrote: »

Are you fcuking deranged? How is this kid supposed to know the difference between right and wrong? A day hasn't gone by where he's been taught the difference.

He gets a punch from a grown man so he knows that a blow to the head hurts.
He then decided to smash a 2 year old's head in.

I don't think I'm the deranged one at all.

Boombastic

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yeah, especially the little baby who was left to die after his head was smashed in.

While his mother spent 4 hours googling 'concussion' and 'head injuries' on the internet while the infant lay dying


This boy is fcuked up because of his family life. He shouldn't be tried as an adult, but given treatment in a secure mental unit, he is also a victim in all of this. For all we know he might have been thinking 'I'll save this baby from getting raped and having the same sh1t life I had' flawed logic but then the whole situation is messed up. Social workers and others also need to be held account along with the mother,father, grandmother and other extended family members.

EdenHazard

He killed his little bro, he's scum. He's had such a tough life but that's his little brother, they were in it together.

lecker Hendl

he's got his mother's nose and lips.

OU812

That's a future serial killer off the streets.

Not 100% his fault based on upbringing, but come 15/16, that kid would have started cutting people up & stashing body parts all over town.

The whole family need to be tried in this case though, they all contributed to the death.

up for anything

EdenHazard wrote: »

He killed his little bro, he's scum. He's had such a tough life but that's his little brother, they were in it together.

Sentimental claptrap. His little brother was around for two years and his arrival might quite possibly have made his life harder. When you've had to protect yourself and your emotions for the guts of 12 years, you don't suddenly develop family feeling unless it's of the wrong kind like he had been subjected to himself.

It's a dog eat dog world when you have no one but yourself to rely on.

Tombi!

up for anything wrote: »

Sentimental claptrap. His little brother was around for two years and his arrival might quite possibly have made his life harder. When you've had to protect yourself and your emotions for the guts of 12 years, you don't suddenly develop family feeling unless it's of the wrong kind like he had been subjected to himself.

It's a dog eat dog world when you have no one but yourself to rely on.

He got punched in the head. He knows it hurts. So why would he think it's a good idea to smash someone's head off a solid object?