After-Life?

cypressg

lukesmom wrote: »

Are you serious? You cannot understand the above sentence?

Yeah,does it mean that you are aware that people have different beliefs?Or does it mean that you respect other people's beliefs?Or both-that you are aware people have different beliefs and that you respect them?

I don't mean to be smart but to say "I respect that people have different beliefs" just doesn't make sense like?It's like saying "I respect that people have different hair colours"-lol,what does that mean?

lukesmom

cypressg wrote: »

Yeah,does it mean that you are aware that people have different beliefs?Or does it mean that you respect other people's beliefs?Or both-that you are aware people have different beliefs and that you respect them?

I don't mean to be smart but to say "I respect that people have different beliefs" just doesn't make sense like?It's like saying "I respect that people have different hair colours"-lol,what does that mean?

Your extremely annoying at this stage I'm wondering if your actually trying to wind me up or what?

I respect that people have beliefs that are different to mine. How you can compare beliefs with hair colour is beyond me

fatmammycat

lukesmom wrote: »

Everyone believes in something different yet hope for whatever the ultimate of life may be, but yet that very essence of what is final, is in fact, universal.

In other words all human beings have their own different beliefs but are the same when it comes to hope as we all have it. He uses the word 'essence' (characters/components that make up something) to describe how humans and our thoughts and beliefs are the very essence of the finality of this subject that is the after-life and death. Quite an intelligent and philosophical way of explaining it I would have thought.

Maybe to you, but it sounds like utter mumbo-jumbo to me.

'Everyone believes in something different (okay, we can agree on this) yet hope for whatever the ultimate of life may be (we hope for what now? the ultimate of life is what exactly?), but yet that very essance of what is final (er?) is in fact, universal (seriously, what is final to humans is much the same as what is final to all living creatures, death).

cypressg

lukesmom wrote: »

Your extremely annoying at this stage I'm wondering if your actually trying to wind me up or what?

I respect that people have beliefs that are different to mine. How you can compare beliefs with hair colour is beyond me

You are = you're.
Yeah I'm aware that people have beliefs that are different to mine also.I don't respect that fact,I'm just aware of it,the same way I'm aware that people have different hair colours to me.
I'm not trying to wind you up, just trying to figure out what you're trying to say.

maguffin

cypressg wrote: »

You are = you're.
Yeah I'm aware that people have beliefs that are different to mine also.I don't respect that fact,I'm just aware of it,the same way I'm aware that people have different hair colours to me.
I'm not trying to wind you up, just trying to figure out what you're trying to say.

You will find that what Lukesmom is saying is that she (?) accepts that people have different beliefs to her, and that in accepting this difference, she respects them for having these beliefs even though they are different from her own.
In other words, she doesn't condemn them, as you appear to do, just because they are different.....it's called compassion!!

lukesmom

maguffin wrote: »

You will find that what Lukesmom is saying is that she (?) accepts that people have different beliefs to her, and that in accepting this difference, she respects them for having these beliefs even though they are different from her own.
In other words, she doesn't condemn them, as you appear to do, just because they are different.....it's called compassion!!

Exactly

Canis Lupus

maguffin wrote: »

You will find that what Lukesmom is saying is that she (?) accepts that people have different beliefs to her, and that in accepting this difference, she respects them for having these beliefs even though they are different from her own.
In other words, she doesn't condemn them, as you appear to do, just because they are different.....it's called compassion!!

Well that's not entirely correct unless you think it's wrong to condemn people that think black people are inferior to white or people who hold the view that Jews should be put into labour camps etc etc.

cypressg

maguffin wrote: »

she respects them for having these beliefs even though they are different from her own.

Sorry but I'm still lost,why would you respect somebody for having a belief?Everybody has beliefs,there's no need to go around respecting people for having them.You'd hardly say I respect that person over there for having a leg,would you?

lukesmom

cypressg wrote: »

Sorry but I'm still lost,why would you respect somebody for having a belief?Everybody has beliefs,there's no need to go around respecting people for having them.You'd hardly say I respect that person over there for having a leg,would you?

I began this thread to speak about the possibility of an after-life and to ask people's opinions on the subject as I know that people have their own beliefs and I respect the fact that they are different to mine. If you cannot discuss the topic without being pedantic about a phrase I used, which by the way you are alone in your thoughts about not understanding, then perhaps you might like to go to another thread or topic?

maguffin

cypressg wrote: »

Sorry but I'm still lost,why would you respect somebody for having a belief?Everybody has beliefs,there's no need to go around respecting people for having them.You'd hardly say I respect that person over there for having a leg,would you?

Have you ever in your life acted in accordance with your own sense of principle? ...and have somebody say to you " ya know, I respect you for that! "

well it's the same thing...Lukesmom is merely stating a similar sense of respect and directing it at people because of their belief systems.

re·spect (r-spkt)
tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects 1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.


n.1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
4. respects Polite expressions of consideration or deference

Now, if you still can't comprehend this very simple turn of phrase....well, words fail me!!

cypressg

maguffin wrote: »

Have you ever in your life acted in accordance with your own sense of principle? ...and have somebody say to you " ya know, I respect you for that! "

well it's the same thing...Lukesmom is merely stating a similar sense of respect and directing it at people because of their belief systems.

re·spect (r-spkt)
tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects 1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.


n.1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
4. respects Polite expressions of consideration or deference

Now, if you still can't comprehend this very simple turn of phrase....well, words fail me!!

Maguffin you're really not helping here,I'm sure lukesmom can speak for herself and you seem just as confused as me-a post ago you were saying it meant she had compassion and now you're saying something totally different.
If you must try and help can you please stick to a meaning as you're just muddying the waters even more by changing what you're saying to suit the situation.

cypressg

lukesmom wrote: »

I began this thread to speak about the possibility of an after-life and to ask people's opinions on the subject as I know that people have their own beliefs and I respect the fact that they are different to mine. If you cannot discuss the topic without being pedantic about a phrase I used, which by the way you are alone in your thoughts about not understanding, then perhaps you might like to go to another thread or topic?

Look I'm sorry if you feel I'm being pedantic but I don't think saying "I started this thread so can you go away" is going to solve anything really.
Please don't respect that people have different beliefs to yours as this suggests that you respect their beliefs,just say that you are aware that people have different beliefs to yours.
It's quite a simple concept but you are really resisting it,why is that?

lukesmom

cypressg wrote: »

Look I'm sorry if you feel I'm being pedantic but I don't think saying "I started this thread so can you go away" is going to solve anything really.
Please don't respect that people have different beliefs to yours as this suggests that you respect their beliefs,just say that you are aware that people have different beliefs to yours.
It's quite a simple concept but you are really resisting it,why is that?

It doesn't suggest I agree with their beliefs it means I repect that they are different to mine. I'm not telling you to 'go away' I'm just tired of explaining the same thing over and over again.

cypressg

lukesmom wrote: »

It doesn't suggest I agree with their beliefs it means I repect that they are different to mine. I'm not telling you to 'go away' I'm just tired of explaining the same thing over and over again.

It is a fact that everybody has different beliefs,so why do you respect it?It's like saying you respect that other people have different hair colours to you,why would a person say that?
It's just an inane muttering that you have inherited and never gave any thought to and now that you have been corrected you don't like it and refuse it.

lukesmom

cypressg wrote: »

It is a fact that everybody has different beliefs,so why do you respect it?It's like saying you respect that other people have different hair colours to you,why would a person say that?
It's just an inane muttering that you have inherited and never gave any thought to and now that you have been corrected you don't like it and refuse it.

Oh correct away I don't mind.

cartell_best

lukesmom wrote: »

It doesn't suggest I agree with their beliefs it means I repect that they are different to mine. I'm not telling you to 'go away' I'm just tired of explaining the same thing over and over again.

Lukesmom: You keep posting You're a breath of fresh air. You post what you think and feel You really are an inspiration, You keep going Miss, no matter what..x

lukesmom

cartell_best wrote: »

Lukesmom: You keep posting You're a breath of fresh air. You post what you think and feel You really are an inspiration, You keep going Miss, no matter what..x

Thank you what a lovely message, cheered me up x

AngelLight

Hi Lukesmom I have found your thread very interesting until the petty arguing took place, however I'd like to add my own experience to this. I, for one have experienced a NDE and it was for me a very deep and life changing experience. I have experienced those in Spirit make contact with me, when I certainly didn't expect it and tried to dismiss it until I was given information for a complete stranger. Needless to say it was a strange experience and the information I was given meant nothing to me, but was very profound and personal to the person it was meant for. The person who had passed over was very clear to me in their personality and uniqueness of character. This has happened on other occasions usually when I least expect it.

I still can't explain it, wish I could! I've done past life regression out of curiosity and discovered over many lifetimes that I switched gender and that my current family members took on different roles in those past lives. It is a subject I still find of great interest to me. Many people hold a fear of death and it is quite possible that this fear is ego based as the ego ceases to exist once the physical body dies. Hope this thread keeps going

Canis Lupus

AngelLight wrote: »

Hi Lukesmom I have found your thread very interesting until the petty arguing took place, however I'd like to add my own experience to this. I, for one have experienced a NDE and it was for me a very deep and life changing experience. I have experienced those in Spirit make contact with me, when I certainly didn't expect it and tried to dismiss it until I was given information for a complete stranger. Needless to say it was a strange experience and the information I was given meant nothing to me, but was very profound and personal to the person it was meant for. The person who had passed over was very clear to me in their personality and uniqueness of character. This has happened on other occasions usually when I least expect it.

I still can't explain it, wish I could! I've done past life regression out of curiosity and discovered over many lifetimes that I switched gender and that my current family members took on different roles in those past lives. It is a subject I still find of great interest to me. Many people hold a fear of death and it is quite possible that this fear is ego based as the ego ceases to exist once the physical body dies. Hope this thread keeps going

I would imagine in a near death experience your brain was a bit on the scrambled side. Not really the best experience to put your 'faith' in.

AngelLight

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I would imagine in a near death experience your brain was a bit on the scrambled side. Not really the best experience to put your 'faith' in.

Clearly Canis Lupis you didn't read my post at all as I didn't give an account of my NDE. I simply said how I have experienced Spirit contact in my life. Things like that have been happening to me since I was a child and some of the experiences weren't pleasant either.

How can someone receive information from someone in Spirit and have not ever met them in this reality and know really private details about them? Have you ever had such an experience yourself? I don't invite these connections as Mediumship has never drawn me and because there are some terrible con artists who prey on people at their most vulnerable time. There will always be things that we can't explain I suppose but it sure makes life interesting.
:-)

angelman121

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I would imagine in a near death experience your brain was a bit on the scrambled side. Not really the best experience to put your 'faith' in.

When you start your comment with "I would imagine" it tells where you are coming from, and then to follow with your opinion "Not really the best experience to put your 'faith' in", maybe its your imagination and opinion thats all scrambled up together, as nether of these will ever compare to someone else's experience.

Maybe the brain is not required to experience a NDE, maybe it's a spiritual experience beyond human comprehension, could you imagine that !.
There's a forum in the Arts tab 'Sci-Fi & Fantasy' that's probably a good place to focus your imagination.
This is the Spiritual forum

Happy Every Day

Canis Lupus

AngelLight wrote: »

Clearly Canis Lupis you didn't read my post at all as I didn't give an account of my NDE. I simply said how I have experienced Spirit contact in my life. Things like that have been happening to me since I was a child and some of the experiences weren't pleasant either.

How can someone receive information from someone in Spirit and have not ever met them in this reality and know really private details about them? Have you ever had such an experience yourself? I don't invite these connections as Mediumship has never drawn me and because there are some terrible con artists who prey on people at their most vulnerable time. There will always be things that we can't explain I suppose but it sure makes life interesting.
:-)

Why mention the NDE if it has no relation on your visitations?

So you've been given information about a person you've never met? So what you're saying is you've no way of verifying this information? Does it not worry you that you hear voices? It would worry me to the point of going to see a doctor.

angelman121 wrote: »

When you start your comment with "I would imagine" it tells where you are coming from, and then to follow with your opinion "Not really the best experience to put your 'faith' in", maybe its your imagination and opinion thats all scrambled up together, as nether of these will ever compare to someone else's experience.

Maybe the brain is not required to experience a NDE, maybe it's a spiritual experience beyond human comprehension, could you imagine that !.
There's a forum in the Arts tab 'Sci-Fi & Fantasy' that's probably a good place to focus your imagination.
This is the Spiritual forum

Happy Every Day

Angel lights post seemed to indicate a spiritual experience during an NDE along with other times in her life. Given how the brain is well documented to be pretty much awful at documenting facts at the best of times never then it's not unreasonable to suggest she was hallucinating etc however she now seems to have clarified that the NDE was nothing to do with the rest of her post.

The brain is required for all human 'experience'. Remove the brain and you don't have a person or conciousness. This may be a 'spiritual' forum (what does that even mean?) but you can't just post up stuff as fact without proof.

I have a friend made of jelly in the shape of an elephant who visits me in my toilet and he explains to me the meaning of life on other planes of existence. Whenever he shows up I feel a warmth surround me. He also connects me to dead people I don't know.

See? I can spout stuff like that all day, doesn't mean any of it is true but by your logic if I BELIEVE in it then it must be. Personal experience is the worst kind of 'proof' because it means nothing.

Or is that what the spirituality forum is about? As long as we're talking about 'spirits', happiness and journeys then it's all taken as fact without questioning of any kind?

maguffin

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Angel lights post seemed to indicate a spiritual experience during an NDE along with other times in her life. Given how the brain is well documented to be pretty much awful at documenting facts at the best of times never then it's not unreasonable to suggest she was hallucinating etc however she now seems to have clarified that the NDE was nothing to do with the rest of her post.

The brain is required for all human 'experience'. Remove the brain and you don't have a person or conciousness. This may be a 'spiritual' forum (what does that even mean?) but you can't just post up stuff as fact without proof.

I have a friend made of jelly in the shape of an elephant who visits me in my toilet and he explains to me the meaning of life on other planes of existence. Whenever he shows up I feel a warmth surround me. He also connects me to dead people I don't know.

See? I can spout stuff like that all day, doesn't mean any of it is true but by your logic if I BELIEVE in it then it must be. Personal experience is the worst kind of 'proof' because it means nothing.

Or is that what the spirituality forum is about? As long as we're talking about 'spirits', happiness and journeys then it's all taken as fact without questioning of any kind?

Spirituality means something different to everyone. For some, it's about participating in organized religion: going to church, synagogue, a mosque, etc. For others, it's more personal: Some people get in touch with their spiritual side through private prayer, yoga, meditation, quiet reflection, or even long walks.
Research shows that even skeptics can't stifle the sense that there is something greater than the concrete world we see. As the brain processes sensory experiences, we naturally look for patterns, and then seek out meaning in those patterns. And the phenomenon known as "cognitive dissonance" shows that once we believe in something, we will try to explain away anything that conflicts with it.

You call yourself 'Canis Lupus'...do you have some Spiritual connection with Gray Wolves?....is the name hinting at a level of Spirituality that you are trying to conceal by using the Latin name?
Are you a member of a religion of any kind? If you are, then that is your Spirituality!!!

lukesmom

AngelLight wrote: »

Hi Lukesmom I have found your thread very interesting until the petty arguing took place, however I'd like to add my own experience to this. I, for one have experienced a NDE and it was for me a very deep and life changing experience. I have experienced those in Spirit make contact with me, when I certainly didn't expect it and tried to dismiss it until I was given information for a complete stranger. Needless to say it was a strange experience and the information I was given meant nothing to me, but was very profound and personal to the person it was meant for. The person who had passed over was very clear to me in their personality and uniqueness of character. This has happened on other occasions usually when I least expect it.

I still can't explain it, wish I could! I've done past life regression out of curiosity and discovered over many lifetimes that I switched gender and that my current family members took on different roles in those past lives. It is a subject I still find of great interest to me. Many people hold a fear of death and it is quite possible that this fear is ego based as the ego ceases to exist once the physical body dies. Hope this thread keeps going

Hi thanks for your post, its very interesting to me. I watched a programme about a doctor called Dr Eban Alexander, who actually works as a neurosurgeon. He nearly died himself and had a NDE. He is now convinced that it wasn't just hallucinations or his brain scrambling, but that there is something else after life. I watched a very interesting documentary about his story. I've also read 'going home' by Colm Keane, a book with accounts of near death experiences. It's a great read. You obviously have a higher vibration than most and that is why spirit chose to contact you with messages. Lucky you that is a great gift to hold

Canis Lupus

maguffin wrote: »

Spirituality means something different to everyone. For some, it's about participating in organized religion: going to church, synagogue, a mosque, etc. For others, it's more personal: Some people get in touch with their spiritual side through private prayer, yoga, meditation, quiet reflection, or even long walks.
Research shows that even skeptics can't stifle the sense that there is something greater than the concrete world we see. As the brain processes sensory experiences, we naturally look for patterns, and then seek out meaning in those patterns. And the phenomenon known as "cognitive dissonance" shows that once we believe in something, we will try to explain away anything that conflicts with it.

But it's not just that. You can see from other threads in this forum is about stuff like aura photography, speaking with spirits/mediumship and so on and so on. What I would describe as mumbo jumbo. Whilst I take issues with organised religion at least they generally come with a detailed and established 'dogma' and I've no problem with meditating etc.

Spirituality seems to just be a 'make it up as you go along' thing. I mean see above "You obviously have a higher vibration than most", that's just claptrap. I mean one person says they hear voices and I think they should probably see a doctor whereas in here it means they vibrate at a higher level and it's a gift?

You call yourself 'Canis Lupus'...do you have some Spiritual connection with Gray Wolves?....is the name hinting at a level of Spirituality that you are trying to conceal by using the Latin name?
Are you a member of a religion of any kind? If you are, then that is your Spirituality!!!

I'm an atheist and regarding my name unfortunately wolves, nerds and the internet are an intrinsically linked thing My name could only be nerdier if it involved two more wolves howling at a moon.

maguffin

Canis Lupus wrote: »

But it's not just that. You can see from other threads in this forum is about stuff like aura photography, speaking with spirits/mediumship and so on and so on. What I would describe as mumbo jumbo. Whilst I take issues with organised religion at least they generally come with a detailed and established 'dogma' and I've no problem with meditating etc.

Spirituality seems to just be a 'make it up as you go along' thing. I mean see above "You obviously have a higher vibration than most", that's just claptrap. I mean one person says they hear voices and I think they should probably see a doctor whereas in here it means they vibrate at a higher level and it's a gift?



I'm an atheist and regarding my name unfortunately wolves, nerds and the internet are an intrinsically linked thing My name could only be nerdier if it involved two more wolves howling at a moon.

So, 'Atheism' is your particular brand of spirituality....that's ok!...a belief system that rejects the existence of Deities, if it works for you, is quite acceptable.

Notice how I don't put down your beliefs...or say they are mumbo jumbo...or say you are making it up as you go.

Instead, I accept your differing views and allow you to express them without ridicule. Maybe, just maybe...there is a lesson in there for you!!

Canis Lupus

maguffin wrote: »

So, 'Atheism' is your particular brand of spirituality....that's ok!...a belief system that rejects the existence of Deities, if it works for you, is quite acceptable.

Notice how I don't put down your beliefs...or say they are mumbo jumbo...or say you are making it up as you go.

Instead, I accept your differing views and allow you to express them without ridicule. Maybe, just maybe...there is a lesson in there for you!!

It's not a belief. It's the absence of one and therefore clearly not a brand of spirituality.

As the saying goes I respect a persons right to hold a belief but it doesn't mean I have to repect that belief. If someone says something ridiculous I hope I'm allowed to call bullsh*t on it and as above, telling someone else they vibrate on a higher level is simply ridiculous.

maguffin

Canis Lupus wrote: »

It's not a belief. It's the absence of one and therefore clearly not a brand of spirituality.

As the saying goes I respect a persons right to hold a belief but it doesn't mean I have to repect that belief. If someone says something ridiculous I hope I'm allowed to call bullsh*t on it and as above, telling someone else they vibrate on a higher level is simply ridiculous.

You seem to overlook the fact that YOU believe that as an atheist, what you hold to be true (ie. the absence of a belief in a god or gods) is in fact true......therefore IT IS a belief system and therefore is a form of spirituality.
Put another way...you have FAITH in your belief that there is an absence of a god or gods, an obviously strong faith since you defend it with such vigour...this, to me, indicates a Faith no less strong than, say, a person of the christian faith or jewish, or any other you care to mention.

However, as before, I respect you for your belief, I also respect the belief itself and wouldn't dream of calling it 'bullsh*t', simply because that is what people who respect others do.
Again, maybe there is a lesson there for you!!

Canis Lupus

maguffin wrote: »

You seem to overlook the fact that YOU believe that as an atheist, what you hold to be true (ie. the absence of a belief in a god or gods) is in fact true......therefore IT IS a belief system and therefore is a form of spirituality.
Put another way...you have FAITH in your belief that there is an absence of a god or gods, an obviously strong faith since you defend it with such vigour...this, to me, indicates a Faith no less strong than, say, a person of the christian faith or jewish, or any other you care to mention.

However, as before, I respect you for your belief, I also respect the belief itself and wouldn't dream of calling it 'bullsh*t', simply because that is what people who respect others do.
Again, maybe there is a lesson there for you!!

Just to clarify that there are many threads in the A&A forum regarding this but atheism is not a belief system. The common answer is that to say atheism is a belief system would be to call not collecting stamps a hobby. It's not a belief system. I'm not saying an atheist can't classify themselves as spiritual, they can be all sorts the only common thing among us is that we lack the belief in the existence of a god(s).

Again, if Lukesmom wants to claim that some of us 'vibrate' on a higher level thus allowing contact with 'spirits' I expect to see proof or some understanding of where this claim comes from. A blanket respect of a belief is just silly. If I told you I thought black people were subhuman and should be exterminated by your logic you should respect this belief?

angelman121

Canis Lupus wrote: »

The brain is required for all human 'experience'. Remove the brain and you don't have a person or conciousness. This may be a 'spiritual' forum (what does that even mean?) but you can't just post up stuff as fact without proof.

I have a friend made of jelly in the shape of an elephant who visits me in my toilet and he explains to me the meaning of life on other planes of existence. Whenever he shows up I feel a warmth surround me. He also connects me to dead people I don't know.

Are you sure about this "conciousness" fact your posting, how is this measured, can you prove that "conciousness dies' with the brain?

Most of the dead people that I have connected with were concious they were dead, so the brain's not need either after your dead.

You could ask your elephant shaped jelly friend if he is concious of what he is? and have you tried asking him just to connect you to dead people that you do know? there's a lot to be said for clear communication.

I once went to a meeting of fundamental atheist's and no one else turned up, they didn't believe the meeting was on !!. They where probably all on the internet 'infiltrating and disrupting' forums they don't agree with.

Happy Every Day