After-Life?

lukesmom

Just looking for others experiences that may make them have an opinion/ideas about where we go after we die, or if we do in fact live on in some shape or form. Near death experiences or visitations from loved ones who have crossed over. Please share if you like and please no smart comments, I didn't want to post this in the psychics and mediums section or paranormal as I'd hoped for a broader selection of beliefs/religions/faiths.

18AD

I don't think there's an after life.

But if I was to entertain the idea, which I sometimes do, I'd say that when brain functioning is diminished it results in more profound and transcendental thoughts, eg. profound near death experiences. So the trend is that the closer to unconsciousness one gets the more profound, archetypal and mystical experience becomes. If you follow the trend to its limit it would mean that total unconsciousness results in the most profound, archetypal and mystical form of thought. So something like a stone has godlike unified consciousness whereas people are more aware of particular things and so miss this all the time.

So brains distract from godhead and you return to it once you die. Unfortunately you can't be "you" after you merge back into infinite consciousness.

That is one of my favourite ideas evar.

666irishguy

I'd find it hard to believe there is an afterlife in the traditional sense of there being a heaven. it's equally hard to accept that the end is so final, or comprehend what happens once the last brain activity stops. So at best I'd like to think that consciousness is not necessarily rooted in the physical biological brain and it somehow becomes free of the body after death and perhaps migrates to some other place or simply begins a different kind of existence.

Starokan

I think that our physical bodies are simply vehicles for our consciousness. I think when we die our consciousness (or spirit) lives on. I honestly believe that at death you will enter a place of bliss, where we will have an understanding of what our lives on this planet are about. I think that we lack knowledge while here and that upon our physical deaths we will find it or remember it again.

for me the after life is about joy

celica00

I definitley think there is such a thing as reincarnation.
Some kind of after life so.
I also can remember many things of my own previous life or life's, I made many experiences and I'm also aware that many dont believe in it.

I think there is some kind of after-life, a very biiiiig and may "difficult" topic.

gillad

Our human life is just an experience of part of our real selves.A small part of our real self is put into our human body/vessel as a consciousness to experience something different.The experience disconnects us from our true loving spiritual nature and allows us to feel pain, hatred and disconnection and all the emotions that cant really be experienced in our true form.When the body dies the consciousness wakes up and goes back to the trueself/soul with the experiences.There is no one that judges us,we judge ourselves as to how we lived and treated the other spirits in our experience and we can come back again and again(reincarnation) if we want, for more experiences because its like a rollercoaster,when you get off and think about the ride even if it was hell,many will want to do it again.We are infinite so dont ever fear death.

Bashar talking about life after death.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DLSyU7y97M

lukesmom

Interesting. Its probably a bit worrying that I think of death several times a day and what happens. I often wonder if there is such a thing as reincarnation, why would anyone want to do it again instead of waiting for their loved ones to die. I also wonder if our personalities change? Do we all of a sudden become part of a larger consciousness that embodies spiritual wholeness. So when we die we no longer think as we did as now we have the knowledge we seeked. I also wonder why our loved ones that go before us, don't make more of an effort to let us know what the story is as regards to the after life?

maguffin

Just a word, from a Buddhist viewpoint, about 'Re-Birth' and 'Re-Incarnation'

Rebirth is a timeless cyclic process centred around the revolving wheel of birth and death. From one lifetime to the next, one learns certain spiritual lessons as one faces up to the fruits of justice from previous lives and repays the karmic debt one owes, while ceaselessly shaping the circumstances for our next rebirth in accord with the mental imprints in our mindstream.
And so, one lifetime unfolds after another, carrying with it the genetic coding of all our previous lives, the source of all our sorrow and our strength. Carl Jung referred to this as the Ancestral Memory, while Plato expounded the necessity to free the soul from the body so that the nature of our true pattern may prevail, and the insight one has accumulated from previous lives may be recalled. However, there is a major difference between rebirth and reincarnation.

Rebirth is an unconscious process incited by the compulsiveness of habitual dispositions in our ultra-subconscious mindstream which reflects how we have comported ourselves in previous lives. In rebirth, one has absolutely no choice over the kind of lives to which one may return. It is utterly dictated by the audit of karmic lessons we have assimilated from our previous lives. Rebirth is thus manifested in accordance with the immutable canon of 'one reaps what one sows'.

Reincarnation, on the other hand, is a voluntary action of free choice. It is the result of the most esoteric meditative practice which brings about the ultimate evolution of the mind whereby one is able to maintain full command of one's consciousness as one transits through the different intermediate stages of death which lead towards the most subtle realm of the mind, at which the adept can permeate the absolute reality of all things and break free from the shackle of karma.
From there on, they have total command over the precise form and circumstances of their future reincarnation. Many of these sublime masters, referred to as Buddha in Buddhism, are reincarnated voluntarily time after time; their mission: to liberate the suffering of all sentient beings. Some of them return in low profile and work quietly with little publicity of their whereabouts. Others return to become prominent leaders and eminent authorities so that they can, from a position of influence, promote a higher state of spiritual awareness in the world. Reincarnation is thus the highest form of altruism

lukesmom

So our families and friends. We most likely won't ever see them again after death if there is just the choices of reincarnation and rebirth. I wonder can you choose to stay in spirit? I'd rather not come back here if given the choice.

fatmammycat

Lukesmom, I don't believe in an afterlife of any kind and think when we die we die, much like every other creature on the planet. It's this reason alone that allows me to embrace the life I have and live it to the fullest of my capability. If you find yourself thinking of death daily, you're probably anxious or even fearful about it, but death is inevitable, it comes to us all, and until it does we ought to treat it as a distant switch that will be tripped at some point, but until then the show will go on how you wish it to do so.

Starokan

lukesmom wrote: »

So our families and friends. We most likely won't ever see them again after death if there is just the choices of reincarnation and rebirth. I wonder can you choose to stay in spirit? I'd rather not come back here if given the choice.

I believe you could stay as spirit if you wished, i believe there are infinite worlds and infinite realities in which you can experience a variety of emotions/situations etc.

Right now if i died i would say given the choice no I would not come back but I do believe the understanding we will achieve upon death will potentially lead us to make a vastly different decision.

gillad

lukesmom wrote: »

So our families and friends. We most likely won't ever see them again after death if there is just the choices of reincarnation and rebirth. I wonder can you choose to stay in spirit? I'd rather not come back here if given the choice.

When we reincarnate we stay in soul groups.Your parents and children and freinds will all swap roles and you will stay with your family and freinds forever and will NEVER EVER lose them. You have already experienced lots of very different lifetimes with them and many more to come if you want or else you can stay in spirit and watch over them.The choise will be yours.Eventually we will stop the cycle and reflect on everyone and everything that we experienced...Enjoy EVERY moment here on earth and dont fear death,its just the beginning of another adventure.

lukesmom

fatmammycat wrote: »

Lukesmom, I don't believe in an afterlife of any kind and think when we die we die, much like every other creature on the planet. It's this reason alone that allows me to embrace the life I have and live it to the fullest of my capability. If you find yourself thinking of death daily, you're probably anxious or even fearful about it, but death is inevitable, it comes to us all, and until it does we ought to treat it as a distant switch that will be tripped at some point, but until then the show will go on how you wish it to do so.

You are right I suppose I am anxious and sad that I won't see my brother again. I have to face up to the reality that he is gone and thats the way it goes. But then another part of me reckons we were so close that he will always be a part of me. Just hard to think how someone at 22 with such a strong personality can disappear without a trace off the face of the earth. It's a funny old world but I am intrigued and always have been, long before our loss.

lukesmom

gillad wrote: »

lukesmom wrote: »

So our families and friends. We most likely won't ever see them again after death if there is just the choices of reincarnation and rebirth. I wonder can you choose to stay in spirit? I'd rather not come back here if given the choice.

When we reincarnate we stay in soul groups.Your parents and children and freinds will all swap roles and you will stay with your family and freinds forever and will NEVER EVER lose them. You have already experienced lots of very different lifetimes with them and many more to come if you want or else you can stay in spirit and watch over them.The choise will be yours.Eventually we will stop the cycle and reflect on everyone and everything that we experienced...Enjoy EVERY moment here on earth and dont fear death,its just the beginning of another adventure.

Have heard this belief may times about swapping roles. So in theory, I could in fact be my brothers mother. I wonder if you change gender. It sure would be great to be a man for a change.

gillad

lukesmom wrote: »

Have heard this belief may times about swapping roles. So in theory, I could in fact be my brothers mother. I wonder if you change gender. It sure would be great to be a man for a change.

Ya,you change gender.Im male and have done past life regression,i saw myself in one life a life as a woman named Sandra and my father in that life is a good freind now.....very strange and unbelievable but it all makes sense to me and thats all that matters .:)

lukesmom

gillad wrote: »

lukesmom wrote: »

Have heard this belief may times about swapping roles. So in theory, I could in fact be my brothers mother. I wonder if you change gender. It sure would be great to be a man for a change.

Ya,you change gender.Im male and have done past life regression,i saw myself in one life a life as a woman named Sandra and my father in that life is a good freind now.....very strange and unbelievable but it all makes sense to me and thats all that matters .:)

That's cool! I think I'd Like to go for past life regression, did it have any negative effects on you after it?

gillad

It was all positive,nothing you see will have any bad effect on you.Even if you do see something bad that happened you will heal it(Karma)by understanding and witnessing it.I saw a bloody death in a life and it helped me connect to a problem in my own(Energy)body and i fixed it.....Its great for the body and mind to try out new and different stuff:) and if it dont suit you,try something else.

maguffin

Seeing as 'Karma' was mentioed in the previous post...some words (I hope not too much) on it....

The literal meaning of the Sanskrit term karma is "deed". It is not a law of retribution nor punishment, for nobody can do to us what we have not generated for ourselves. The basic view of Karma, as the law of cause and effect, can be summed up by the Buddhist Scripture Visuddhi Magga (The Path of Purification): "Five causes were there in the past, five fruits we find in present life; five causes do we now produce, five fruits we reap in future life".


The karmic effect of an action, which can be of any aspects of the body, speech and mind, is not determined by the action itself but by the motivating factors behind the action. It is the intention of the action which causes the planting of karmic imprints. A "deed of intent" may fail to materialise due to one reason or another, but if the intention towards it exists, it will still leave a karmic imprintin the mind-stream continuum and the consequences it produces will still manifest when the condition for it to ripen is ideal.
The only deed that can be considered a non-karmic action is one which is totally free from the three chief causes of human sorrow - attachment, aversion and ignorance. Otherwise, virtuous actions produce positive karmic seeds, and non-virtuous actions produce negative karmic seeds. Both will come to fruition in the fullness of time to produce either wholesome or unwholesome karmic effects. While karma gives rise to the manifestation of a situation, it does not manifest response to the situation. We alone remain responsible for our past actions as the heir to our karma and master of our own destiny.

As the law of cause and effect, karma is governed by four conditions: firstly, karma is indisputable in that virtuous actions give rise to happiness and non-virtuous actions to unsatisfactoriness; secondly, the karmic effect one comes to experience is always far greater than the karmic imprint one planted; thirdly, no karmic situation will manifest in one's life without one having engendered the cause in the first place; and fourthly, karmic seeds once generated are never lost until their natural exhaustion.

Karma with its karmic imprints are the determining factors which influence the process of rebirth. Of the five main types of karma: virtuous karma gives rise to rebirth in one of the three upper realms of samsaric existence.
Non-virtuous karma gives rise to rebirth in one of the three lower realms of samsaric existence.
Non-fluctuating karma gives rise to rebirth in the form and formless realm of samsaric existence due to actions connected with different kinds of mental-absorption practices.
Throwing karma gives rise to rebirth in one of the six realms of samsaric existence when the four conditions of intention, object, action and rejoicing are present.
Rebirth associated with completing karma is caused by the absence of influence of intention, object, action and rejoicing on the karmic imprint, and thus instead completes the process of the rebirth during the course of the current life with experience manifested as either pleasant or unpleasant in accordance with the karmic imprints in the mind-stream continuum.

For a karma to manifest, it requires the presence of specific conditions and catalysts. Moreover, the manner in which a karma comes into fruition is determined by the differentiation of heaviness of karmic weight relative to: the nature of the non-virtue, the object of the non-virtue, your intention behind the non-virtue, the action itself, the frequency of such an action, and the attachment of non-virtuous bearing without opponent.

gillad

Im going to the Buddhist monk Cheong Wol in swords this weekend.The weekends motto is "Clear your Karma and Liberate Ancestors".There will be lots of energy channellings and an Ancestor liberation cermony.....definetly gonna be a weekend to remember:)
Heres the link if interested...http://energytemple.ie/index.php/about/upcoming-events

fatmammycat

lukesmom wrote: »

You are right I suppose I am anxious and sad that I won't see my brother again. I have to face up to the reality that he is gone and thats the way it goes. But then another part of me reckons we were so close that he will always be a part of me. Just hard to think how someone at 22 with such a strong personality can disappear without a trace off the face of the earth. It's a funny old world but I am intrigued and always have been, long before our loss.

But he is a part of you now, he's in your heart, your memories. You will never lose that. Grief is a strange emotion, it can make us miserable, wrathful, fearful, all the worst of the worst emotions we have. Yet it waxs and wanes and if we're very lucky we can come through the otherside with a deeper understanding of us and our place in the world.
I am sorry for your loss.

Corkgirl210

Hi

Of course there is an afterlife - we are mind, body, spirit and soul.. not just a physical being.. we shed our physical body - our soul lives on in the after life...

Mediumship demonstrates that there is an afterlife! seeing is believing.. so look at physical mediumship or any mediums that have provided irrefutable evidence.

I too got past life regression.. im not sure i believe in incarnation or whether time here is linear so we are all living our lives at same time..
either way.. im not just a physical being having a spiritual experience - I am a spiritual being having a physical experience!

you only have to look at NDEs to know that it exists.....

open your mind.. you wont know what you may find ...

Northclare

I understand you.
It's sad some people don't have that third eye,or soul awareness.

There is an afterlife and I'm sure of one thing,death is a departure lounge not a terminal lounge...

I can see the strident Atheist now.
And in their head they're thinking about airports and someone in a lounge dying for a drink or something :S

Atheists ask for all kind of proof for an afterlife,but yet we don't have to ask we just know.

Doh we need scientific proof....
We need substantial evidence on our terms...

The great thing about being Spiritual is I know science works,I know spirituality works.

The Atheist says prove Spirituality with scientific methods....

Doh if they knew about spirituality they would know it works,because it works for millions of people all over the world...

So keep up your prove the afterlife on our terms BS because quite frankly were way ahead of the Atheists when it comes to knowing about an afterlife

angelman121

Given the fact that NOW is all that is ever real, the past is gone the future not here, there is no "afterlife" only life and experience continuing NOW whether you are dead or alive (in a body or not,this is called eternity). Another fact is you will only ever feel your own feelings within you (this is unseen), everything else is outside of you, your human self belongs to this outside (seen) world, your spirit-self is part of the unseen world, both exist as a reality NOW, you don't have to be dead to connect to your spiritual self or the spirit world, you only have to choose to connect to it. Belief in this or not doesn't change this it only changes you, because somebody does not believe in spirit does not mean it is not real for everybody else. I didn't believe in anything spiritual until my brother passed away and 'woke me up' to the spiritual world about 20 yrs ago I now teach others about it, and yes I do charge for my time as the esb and the banks and supermarkets don't except donations or healing energy instead of cash !!. I have founded 'The Archangel Michael School of Healing' in co Leitrim and the teachings are free on-line (you'll have to Google don't think I'm allowed to post link here). I am also very connected to the spirit world and nothing really changes when you pass over, if you are prepared to leave this world behind and except the peace of nothing (we can touch on this in meditation) then that's what you will experience, if you have anger or sadness when you pass then that's what you will continue to experience, the one thing that will remain true in both "worlds" is you have free will and the power of choice. There is no one standing over you with a stick !

lukesmom

I didn't give my own opinion I was just looking to see other people's views on it. I 100% believe in an after life as a trip to an amazing medium and contact with my deceased brother gave me infallible proof

cartell_best

I certainly believe in the afterlife. Some people who don't believe in an afterlife, refer to it as something very much like a “computer crash“, everything just stops and we will not be aware of it. The thing is, people who experience a complete shutdown, never live to tell the tale. At that point, we certainly shutdown but it is then, and only then, a level of understanding that you or I or any scientist cannot fathom or try to begin to understand commences. That is the very essence of another existence that we cannot try to understand, a level of pure euphoria, that complete sense of ultimate freedom.

People report near death experiences, they “see the light at the end of a tunnel”, they feel an overwhelming sense of love and peace. I hope I don’t sound derogatory when I say this, but the feeling or emotion we could experience when we pass over, we could not understand in our realm of understanding. It will be a new, unique and completely fulfilled emotion. At that stage of experience with reported nde’s I do agree with, that it is at that point you not only feel, but experience a stage at which you do not want to return to your mortal existence. The thing is, I do believe that every now and then and for whatever reason people believe to be obscure, some people are given a little bit of a “shove” . That “shove” may be for that individual and their personal inspiration, but I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason, and as such, I would not disregard it but treat it as being a beautiful experience, not to only improve their life, but for that person to improve the lives of others. There certainly is a lot more to the afterlife than you or I can try to explain.

Corkgirl210

I believe we pass to spirit - lose our phsyical being and return to our natural state of being.. i.e. a soul... we are welcomed by our loved ones and then do a life review where we review our life (where there is no judgement) and it is our decision with help of spirit guides / masters if we wish to reincarnate.. most of us will choose to do so as we are never done learning and we may need to experience both sides of a coin in order to experience fully.. we also may chose a different souls theme and will therefore pick our family, friends and those who will interact and impact our future life. Therefore souls may reincarnate again through different life times.. my brother was my wife in a past life!! sounds mad but depends on how you look at it and what level of consciousness you have .. the more expansive the more you look at it from a souls point of view...

some mediums can listen in on a souls blueprint and this is where we can find out about such things..

i feel we are all gifted and courageous souls who choose to actually experience through emotions in order to get full experience..whether good bad or indifference, i would say one would get sick of feeling complete unconditional love and oneness once passed over to spirit world.. we need black and white in order to appreciate both sides!!!

light and love....

Eiriu

Life is eternal.

Heaven is this moment. If you let it be.

Imagine all the people, living life as one.

Can you be loved?

maguffin

Eiriu wrote: »

Life is eternal.

Heaven is this moment. If you let it be.

Imagine all the people, living life as one.

Can you be loved?

Songs...ok...

'Life is Eternal'......Carly Simon (released 1990)

'Heaven is this moment'......can't place it...maybe not a song lyric/title

'Let it Be'......Beatles

'Imagine'.......John Lennon

'Can you be Loved'.......Bob Marley

Eiriu

maguffin wrote: »

Songs...ok...

'Life is Eternal'......Carly Simon (released 1990)

'Heaven is this moment'......can't place it...maybe not a song lyric/title

'Let it Be'......Beatles

'Imagine'.......John Lennon

'Can you be Loved'.......Bob Marley

You've got to stir, it up


The beast is under your bed, in your closet, in your head.

break free from your mind

Live your life, be free

dd972

open minded scientists are developing theories on the nature of consciousness that allow for the possibility of an afterlife, no one really knows where the brain stops and the mind begins, some interesting stuff on the subject, of course organised religion doesn't come into the equation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_F4nOKDSM&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibPlspMNq8o&feature=youtu.be

http://megafoundation.org/CTMU/Q&A/Archive.html#CTMU

Maysa07

If you ask me: Is there a next life after death? Can you show it to me?
I will ask you: Is there tomorrow? If yes, can you show it to me?

Simple & ordinary fact to settle an unending doubt.

cypressg

Maysa07 wrote: »

If you ask me: Is there a next life after death? Can you show it to me?
I will ask you: Is there tomorrow? If yes, can you show it to me?

Simple & ordinary fact to settle an unending doubt.

My head hurts trying to make sense of that logic.
If you want to know is there an afterlife or not it's easy,just think of the guys that believe there is 40 virgins or something waiting for them "up there",think of how silly that belief is yet how easily they believe it-people believe the most stupid ridiculous things when they want to and it is human nature to want to believe in an afterlife.

lukesmom

Maysa07 wrote: »

If you ask me: Is there a next life after death? Can you show it to me?
I will ask you: Is there tomorrow? If yes, can you show it to me?

Simple & ordinary fact to settle an unending doubt.

This makes perfect sense to me. We cannot show somebody tomorrow even though we know it is there. In the same way we cannot prove an afterlife even though we know in our hearts there is one.

cypressg

lukesmom wrote: »

This makes perfect sense to me. We cannot show somebody tomorrow even though we know it is there. In the same way we cannot prove an afterlife even though we know in our hearts there is one.

No it doesn't,historically there has always been a tomorrow,100% of the time,while not visible from the today it is always visible when it materializes the next day.
This is not true for an "afterlife",it just makes sense to you cause you want to believe in an afterlife as it's human nature.

Canis Lupus

Maysa07 wrote: »

If you ask me: Is there a next life after death? Can you show it to me?
I will ask you: Is there tomorrow? If yes, can you show it to me?

Simple & ordinary fact to settle an unending doubt.

If you ask me: Is there an elephant sized talking raspberry trifle that lives on the moon (which is also invisible)? Can you show it to me?
I will ask you: Is there tomorrow? If yes, can you show it to me?

Simple & ordinary fact to settle an unending doubt.

Nolars

Says it all tbh

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides. [Carl Sagan, 1996 in his article In the Valley of the Shadow Parade Magazine Also, Billions and Billions p. 215]

lukesmom

cypressg wrote: »

No it doesn't,historically there has always been a tomorrow,100% of the time,while not visible from the today it is always visible when it materializes the next day.
This is not true for an "afterlife",it just makes sense to you cause you want to believe in an afterlife as it's human nature.

I get what your saying here, there is no concrete evidence to show there is an afterlife. And yes it is wishful thinking of course. I do believe there is something else after death and this is not based on scientific fact obviously. But science teaches us that we cannot disprove something that hasn't been proven true or false. Also teaches us that energy cannot be created or destroyed it simply changes form and based on that theory I believe we change form. The body is no longer useful and the soul and spirit leave the body and travel to another plain where other souls reside.

fatmammycat

lukesmom wrote: »

I get what your saying here, there is no concrete evidence to show there is an afterlife. And yes it is wishful thinking of course. I do believe there is something else after death and this is not based on scientific fact obviously. But science teaches us that we cannot disprove something that hasn't been proven true or false. Also teaches us that energy cannot be created or destroyed it simply changes form and based on that theory I believe we change form. The body is no longer useful and the soul and spirit leave the body and travel to another plain where other souls reside.

What soul? What spirit? Our consciousness stems from our brains, when that dies so does our self-identy, our thoughts, memories. There is no evidence for a spirtual afterlife; with the best will in the world, wishful thinking is hardly grounds to invent one.

Canis Lupus

lukesmom wrote: »

I get what your saying here, there is no concrete evidence to show there is an afterlife. And yes it is wishful thinking of course. I do believe there is something else after death and this is not based on scientific fact obviously. But science teaches us that we cannot disprove something that hasn't been proven true or false. Also teaches us that energy cannot be created or destroyed it simply changes form and based on that theory I believe we change form. The body is no longer useful and the soul and spirit leave the body and travel to another plain where other souls reside.

If that's what you believe what do you think happens in this new plain? Do all the souls just mill about for eternity? Are we aware that we're just disembodied souls that do nothing for eternity but exist? It's all very well thinking there's an afterlife but you have to give it some context. Frankly, it sounds appalling being a 'soul' for eternity.

lukesmom

fatmammycat wrote: »

What soul? What spirit? Our consciousness stems from our brains, when that dies so does our self-identy, our thoughts, memories. There is no evidence for a spirtual afterlife; with the best will in the world, wishful thinking is hardly grounds to invent one.

There is no evidence that there is no spiritual after-life either! I respect your beliefs but it's not just wishful thinking after a loss for me. I have always believed the soul lives on.

lukesmom

Canis Lupus wrote: »

If that's what you believe what do you think happens in this new plain? Do all the souls just mill about for eternity? Are we aware that we're just disembodied souls that do nothing for eternity but exist? It's all very well thinking there's an afterlife but you have to give it some context. Frankly, it sounds appalling being a 'soul' for eternity.

That's the million dollar question you asked. I see what you mean by saying it would be appalling for the soul to live on for eternity. But you can only base that on your own life experience. The soul could enter several new lifes with totally new experiences. Just like the universe can not be comprehended it is that vast, we cannot dismiss the possibility of an after-life.

Canis Lupus

lukesmom wrote: »

That's the million dollar question you asked. I see what you mean by saying it would be appalling for the soul to live on for eternity. But you can only base that on your own life experience. The soul could enter several new lifes with totally new experiences. Just like the universe can not be comprehended it is that vast, we cannot dismiss the possibility of an after-life.

What it comes down to is the ever useful Hitchens quote. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

Can I dismiss the possibility of an afterlife, of course not but without any evidence (at all) to show it exists means I'm probably safe to say it's highly highly highly unlikely. I'm not trying to be offensive but your idea of an afterlife is wishy washy.

lukesmom

Canis Lupus wrote: »

What it comes down to is the ever useful Hitchens quote. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

Can I dismiss the possibility of an afterlife, of course not but without any evidence (at all) to show it exists means I'm probably safe to say it's highly highly highly unlikely. I'm not trying to be offensive but your idea of an afterlife is wishy washy.

Hey that's fair enough I appreciate your contribution to the thread anyway.

fatmammycat

lukesmom wrote: »

There is no evidence that there is no spiritual after-life either! I respect your beliefs but it's not just wishful thinking after a loss for me. I have always believed the soul lives on.

With respect, that makes no sense. You have no evidence that a 'soul' exists, never mind 'lives on'. Evidence is just that, evidence. You can verify it, repeat it, show it to be true. Saying there is no evidence for something that cannot be proven to exist is trying to prove a negative, and we cannot prove a negative.
As canis lupus alludes: certainly I cannot dismiss the notion of an afterlife, but neither can I give it any credence, nor should you based on what can only be-thus far- wishful thinking and confirmation bias.

lukesmom

fatmammycat wrote: »

With respect, that makes no sense. You have no evidence that a 'soul' exists, never mind 'lives on'. Evidence is just that, evidence. You can verify it, repeat it, show it to be true. Saying there is no evidence for something that cannot be proven to exist is trying to prove a negative, and we cannot prove a negative.
As canis lupus alludes: certainly I cannot dismiss the notion of an afterlife, but neither can I give it any credence, nor should you based on what can only be-thus far- wishful thinking and confirmation bias.

So answer me this do you regard yourself as a spiritual person?

fatmammycat

No, I don't. I don't even really know what that is supposed to truly mean. Anyone I know who regards themselves as 'spiritual' usually has a hodgepodge of ideas on what it is supposed to mean, and it seems to vary wildly from person to person. Perhaps if you could clarify what you feel 'spiritual' to mean I could best address your question.

cypressg

Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here but I always find that people who regard themselves as spiritual are usually not very well read or informed about the world in general and tend to believe in things like ghosts and fortune tellers etc in an effort to explain things that they don't understand or beliefs that have been passed on to them as a child that they've never bothered questioning.

lukesmom

fatmammycat wrote: »

No, I don't. I don't even really know what that is supposed to truly mean. Anyone I know who regards themselves as 'spiritual' usually has a hodgepodge of ideas on what it is supposed to mean, and it seems to vary wildly from person to person. Perhaps if you could clarify what you feel 'spiritual' to mean I could best address your question.

I don't know about others but for me, I guess I have always felt instinctively that there is a spiritual plain, something we cannot hear or see but can often feel.

You must have some interest though in spirituality or you wouldn't be responding to a thread in the spirituality forum.
I respect all people's beliefs or non beliefs.

maguffin

cypressg wrote: »

Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here but I always find that people who regard themselves as spiritual are usually not very well read or informed about the world in general and tend to believe in things like ghosts and fortune tellers etc in an effort to explain things that they don't understand or beliefs that have been passed on to them as a child that they've never bothered questioning.

The problem is, that once you have typed that comment above and submitted it, you have hurt some peoples feelings.....prefacing it by saying you're not trying to do this is pointless.

whilst you haven't hurt my feelings directly, I do thing it is unbecoming of you to say what you did....I have a sense of Spirituality in my life, however, I am quite well read (philosophy, Science, Literature and many more), I have a background of Chemistry and Analytical science as well as an Honours degree in computer science.....but according to you, because I am Spiritual...I am not well read and badly informed!!!

Go take a look at your own life...have you inherited a belief system, given to you as a child, one you have not fully questioned??....ie, are you of one of the christian faiths...RC, CofI, CofE, ?? are these not systems that involve 'christian spirituality'???

Live and let live... and do not judge others without full facts!!

cypressg

maguffin wrote: »

The problem is, that once you have typed that comment above and submitted it, you have hurt some peoples feelings.....prefacing it by saying you're not trying to do this is pointless.

whilst you haven't hurt my feelings directly, I do thing it is unbecoming of you to say what you did....I have a sense of Spirituality in my life, however, I am quite well read (philosophy, Science, Literature and many more), I have a background of Chemistry and Analytical science as well as an Honours degree in computer science.....but according to you, because I am Spiritual...I am not well read and badly informed!!!

Go take a look at your own life...have you inherited a belief system, given to you as a child, one you have not fully questioned??....ie, are you of one of the christian faiths...RC, CofI, CofE, ?? are these not systems that involve 'christian spirituality'???

Live and let live... and do not judge others without full facts!!

You're right with first part,I suppose I was trying to mitigate the hurt it would cause and didn't want to seem like a totally heartless bastard,but yeah I also hate it when people try and prefix something hurtful with "I don't mean to hurt but ..." and am a bit embarrassed now that I did it actually.

Now,on to the next part,you say that you are quite well read and as I don't know you I certainly can't contradict that but it is certainly at odds with my experience-I mean isn't it a known fact that the smarter the person the less they believe in spirituality etc?I may be wrong here so feel free to contradict me.I mean I know plenty of well read people who are still clueless as to how the world works and what is real and what is not,I suppose it depends on the actual content of what a person is reading rather than the amount?

And lastly,yep I certainly did inherit a belief system,RC as did most of the country but I discarded it with disgust when I realised how foolish the whole thing was and how foolish 100% of it's true adherents were.

And finally I used to believe in the whole live and let live ethos but not anymore,it's just too hard to get anything done and to build a decent world where we can all live happily and in harmony when you have one group of people who's god/belief system says you can't have divorce/contraception/homosexuality/stem cell research and then you have another group of ejjits saying that an adultress woman has to be stoned and then you have another group of dopes who believe that women are second class citizens only there for their pleasure and then you have another group of thicks blowing themselves and others up so that they can get to heaven where there are 40 virgins waiting for them.Where ever the belief systems intersect there just seems to be carnage and where they don't intersect there also seems to be carnage.Kill them all I say and lets move forward with facts and science and not the superstitious teachings of old men from thousands of years ago for gods sake.
End of rant.

maguffin

cypressg wrote: »

You're right with first part,I suppose I was trying to mitigate the hurt it would cause and didn't want to seem like a totally heartless bastard,but yeah I also hate it when people try and prefix something hurtful with "I don't mean to hurt but ..." and am a bit embarrassed now that I did it actually.

Good!

Now,on to the next part,you say that you are quite well read and as I don't know you I certainly can't contradict that but it is certainly at odds with my experience-I mean isn't it a known fact that the smarter the person the less they believe in spirituality etc?I may be wrong here so feel free to contradict me.

What you believe..is what you believe. It is of no consequence to me if you believe me or not, but I think you do a great dis-service to many intelligent people who are also very spiritual....to quote the late Carl Sagan, a very emminent and intelligent scientist:

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."

...Kill them all I say and lets move forward with facts and science and not the superstitious teachings of old men from thousands of years ago for gods sake.
End of rant.

That sentiment is very like what some Fundamental Extremists are saying in the world today....and I notice you sign off with a 'for god's sake' despite what you've said previously...!!