Should the Garda uniform be updated

MEMBER12

I would like to see the Garda uniform updated and brought out of the dark ages.
New boots that you can run in.
Combat trousers that are comfortable with added pockets.
A belt kit that has a harness as the UK have.
A polo shirt for every day wear, a normal shirt for court.
A decent fleece.
The bike jacket to be issued to all members
A base ball cap instead of the old one.

I believe that this uniform would save a lot of money compared to what is issued now. Any ideas or comments guys?

CharlieCroker

I agree on the trousers, boots and belt.
I think the shirt is ok but the tie needs to go. Hate driving with a vest, shirt and tie.
I think the hat is ok too.

Mr Simpson

I said this before on another thread, but for me it should be:

• Combats
• Polo
• Jacket
• Stab Vest with Discreet Cover and a High Viz Cover
• Same Hat, I wouldn't get baseball caps

Similar to the current Airport Police uniform

source

I would have loved to have seen the uniform changed. I did my dissertation on the uniform. My suggestion was to continue to issue the current shirt, tie and trousers for those involved in office duties.

Then have combat trousers, boots, open collar work shirt, Stab vest and the mountain bike jacket. Keep the current hat but car crews don't have to wear it.

Italia

I served for almost 23yrs in South Africa. For years we had the regulation woollen 'British-style' uniform complete with Sam-Browne and Wilkinson sword (officers only and used in 'official' functions).

I can tell you that it was murder to chase after suspects, especially in summer when temperatures go up into the late 30's (deg C). There was even a stupid regulation that when driving we had to wear the hat :rolleyes:
Biggest problem was wearing body-armour which, in our case, wasn't the normal stab vest but a full on ballistic vest complete with (depending on which unit you were allocated to) ceramic plates. Try doing anything significant with that ensemble.

Some-time in the 90's we changed over to a cotton combat style uniform (same ballistic vest though). The cap was modeled after the US Marines 'fatigues' cap but without the 8 points. At the same time we swapped the old leather combat boots for an 8" Israeli rubberised tactical boot - something similar to what is in use these days by most other forces.

The old uniform was kept for ceremonial purposes.

The change made a huge difference and I can recommend it 100%.

Zambia

mmcn90 wrote: »

I said this before on another thread, but for me it should be:

• Combats
• Polo
• Jacket
• Stab Vest with Discreet Cover and a High Viz Cover
• Same Hat, I wouldn't get baseball caps

Similar to the current Airport Police uniform

The lad on the right looks as if he just rolled out of bed.

This would not be a Look I would be pushing for.

Mr Simpson

Its not a great photo, but most of the time the uniform looks very well in the flesh.

Zambia

mmcn90 wrote: »

Its not a great photo, but most of the time the uniform looks very well in the flesh.

I will take your word for it. Its a long time since I graced the airport.

Sadly the constant requirement for Yellow vests just makes it really hard to have a decent uniform. Now matter how hard you try you end up with a Council uniform.

I always thought the Big Boss Man had the right idea;





Obviously based on a riot uniform, but if the flak jacket were reflective, I'd see it as a suitable uniform to use in real life policing. Combat pants, lots of pockets, short sleeve shirt, etc.

Actually now that I look at it, it seems very similar to an outfit worn by the British Police (unsure what areas/units, but it looks similar? They were white shirts, I believe, though).


I think the uniform needs to be made a bit more intimidating. Police, the world over, will always be approachable, in my opinion, regardless of their uniform, but I think the standard Garda uniform is far too friendly and impractical looking. I actually think the Cyclist uniform should replace the regular one.

MEMBER12

Look at the two on the left, they look pretty decent to me!

AnLeabharDearg

I don't get the appeal of the bike jacket at all. It's made out of awful material,in warm weather it's horrible to wear even when sleeveless and it's not better than the fleece jacket combo in the cold. It's practible when cycling but only due to it's length.
In all honesty the uniform whilst not perfect would be long down the list of things I'd rather see changed in the job!

talla10

Uniform is awful. I would support current uniform for office/court.

Love to see better boots, good quality combats, work shirt, stab vest that cuffs, radio & baton can be strapped to, OC on belt around combats and of course baseball cap. Current hat is impossible to run in, looks silly and has no operational value

Pappa Charlie

Zambia wrote: »

The lad on the right looks as if he just rolled out of bed.

This would not be a Look I would be pushing for.

What ever they come up with there shouldnt be too many variations within it and there should be strong guidelines as to when each type of uniform is worn, the photo has three diffiernt people and all have slightly different uniforms and its not very professional looking IMO.

audidiesel

For budgetary reasons don't see much change happening. But one simple quick change would be remove the tie for operational work an just have it for court/indoor. Costs nothing and does make a difference.

Then again this minister wouldn't allow anything that may improve a guards day even slightly. I'm surprised he hasn't reintroduced the bloody tunic yet

Terrontress

talla10 wrote: »

Current hat is impossible to run in, looks silly and has no operational value

A Garda hat increases overall height of the wearer thereby increasing their visibility and providing a psychological advantage.

A baseball cap makes the wearer look like a....a....baseball player?

BaronVon

If some people had their way, all Guards would be going around in tracksuits.

Imo, you need to retain some formality with the uniform, it being a uniform after all, and not exercise clothes!

rollcall

Speaking as an 'oul fella', I think thyere has to be a balance between practicality & smartness, there is no doubt that the uniform helps to convey authority when dealign with people. I started on the beat in 86 (1986 not 1866!) wearing the dark blue 'bullswool' uniform, including a greatcoat that was worn over the tunic, and if it rained you were about 5 stone heavier! I am not suggesting that we go back to that, but we could get too casual if we went to baseball caps etc. I think we can all agree that the current gear is awful in design and quality, and it is not cheap either. Have a look at this site, and see what you could get get for a lot less money. They have a lot of col stuff but before anyone asks, they dont ship to Ireland any more!


http://www.galls.com/cgi/CGBCHOME



There are also a couple of interesting US police magazines that run best dressed competitions each year, it is interesting to have a look at them too.


www.lawandordermag.com

http://www.policemag.com/

Potential-Monke

The uniform pants should be swapped for the combats for operational members, and the current pants kept for indoor/court. Pants is useless in chases, too restricting.

The stab vest needs to be modernised, the current one is terrible to wear, should be zip-up like the UK/US vests.

The new plastic high-vis is woeful, would prefer the CP high-vis (cloth ones are still grand).

Agree with losing the tie for outside duties, pain the the hole!

Keep the cap for beat/posts, members in cars don't need to wear them all the time, usually just on traffic checkpoints/rta's, etc. Don't agree with the baseball cap, it should be reserved for the specialised units.

bk

rollcall wrote: »

Speaking as an 'oul fella', I think thyere has to be a balance between practicality & smartness, there is no doubt that the uniform helps to convey authority when dealign with people.

I don't know I think the Regional Support Unit uniform conveys bucketloads of authority:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/60497801@N06/5532938267/




To be honest and no offence but I don't think the current uniform conveys any authority. More like little boys in their too big confirmation suit!!

The RSU uniform conveys well equipped, well trained, don't mess with me authority. More of this please.

listermint

bk wrote: »

I don't know I think the Regional Support Unit uniform conveys bucketloads of authority:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/60497801@N06/5532938267/




To be honest and no offence but I don't think the current uniform conveys any authority. More like little boys in their too big confirmation suit!!

The RSU uniform conveys well equipped, well trained, don't mess with me authority. More of this please.

Well.. the lad on the right needs

A) a shorter jacket

to tuck his jacket up the way it was designed...

Pappa Charlie

When you think of what they bought us when they had money it makes me shudder to think of what we'll get when they go looking with a tight budget. Chances are we'll get polo tops and chino's from Dunnes stores, baseball caps from elvery's and boots from Penney's!

MEMBER12

Why can they not just change it, swap the pants for combats, a straight switch. Add a harness to the belt kit, Update the boots,etc etc. The Gardai are issued new kit every couple of years,I believe they can make the changes now. With the currant financial climate, things should be a little cheaper.

Potential-Monke

They've already got cheaper, the new uniforms are different sizes (i know one female who got 2 new pants, both stating the same sizes. One was too small and the other too big...), the shirt collars are stupid close at the top button so the collars stick out when the tie is on, the cap badgess are off centre...

An Udaras

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

What ever they come up with there shouldnt be too many variations within it and there should be strong guidelines as to when each type of uniform is worn, the photo has three diffiernt people and all have slightly different uniforms and its not very professional looking IMO.

To be fair to members in the earlier Airport Police photo.. The Airport Police have by majority now changed over to a new tactical type uniforms which is based off the uniform concept adopted by many UK Home Office forces along with the BTP & CNC. Hence there are currently two uniforms being worn by the members of the APS stationed in Dublin. This does present some slight differences I must admit.





In the photo's above from last week, you can see the current two types of operational uniform used by members of the APS. The blue shirt is being phased out.

In the second photos from yesterday, it shows two gardai wearing two different types of uniform (Different HI-Viz's) Im personally not a big fan of the hands in your pockets when on duty.

The Airport Police new uniform clearly identifies them as being members of the Airport Police Service and not a Garda which is important and it bring its own uniform identity to the force. The new tactical uniform was delivered to members after a detailed & lengthy consultation process.

It delivered a much more practical,comfortable & modern uniform solution which gives each officer :

Tactical Uniform Shirts (Similar to a breathable cycling shirt)
Tactical trousers
National Uniform Fleece (Common UK Police fleece)
Matterhorn Tactical Boots
New Gortex patrol style bomber jacket
New Hi Visibility Tactical Vest inclusive of Klickfast clips
New Peak Cap


The APS maintain a No.1s Dress uniform along with the standard Blue Shirt & Tie for court. The traditional peaked cap was maintained but a checkered batternburg Police baseball cap was evaluated.

I strongly believe that a similar new modern uniform would benefit the frontline members of the AGS and allows them to keep the blue shirt & tie for official duties such as court etc..

twistedbrains

Zambia wrote: »

The lad on the right looks as if he just rolled out of bed.

This would not be a Look I would be pushing for.

lad on the right used to be in the defence forces im sure

Pappa Charlie

@ An Udaras

Im personally not a big fan of the hands in your pockets when on duty.

Neither am I but there are times when you may have to take something from it like a pen or a phone and a photo is just a moment in time, I didnt realise airport security have no pockets!

CharlieCroker

Is that whoopi goldberg??

Zambia

My exact thought process.

pah

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Is that whoopi goldberg??

my first reaction. Lol

Uniform is sh1t. Plain and simple. Like others have said i have waist 34 trousers 2 pairs that fit and 2 that don't. Shirts are the same 16 1/2 some comfortable some unclosable. I leave the tie off on nights tbh. The metal clip on the inside is a hazard imo.

I would happily give my uniform and boot allowance up to facilitate a new setup. Im sure most members would.

Mr Simpson

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Is that whoopi goldberg??

It is, she was giving a talk in trinity on Wednesday. Apoarently some fella follwed her around town giving her abuse, hence the Gardaí.

sdanseo

Whatever they do, they hat should be kept and I think the shirt should be as well, even if it's changed to a more wearable type like in the US. Think it looks much better.

MEMBER12

It is just amazing that the Airport police can get their uniform sorted and the Gardai cannot? We could ask the GRA, but they are ****ing useless.

AnLeabharDearg

Well how many Airport Police is there? A drop in the ocean compared to garda numbers. Them buying 20 or 30 new uniforms is a bit different to the guards buying a couple of thousand. Make do with what we got because it won't be changed for a long long time.

An Udaras

Just over 300 member of the Airport Police Fire Service nationally between the three state airports. With over a hundred serving Police Officers,Sergeants & Inspectors in Dublin alone excluding senior officers etc..

No point denying its a lot easier to introduce a new uniform,training or equipment to the Airport Polis as its a much smaller force then the Gardai.

How many of the entire Garda force is uniformed? Would it be around 6000 or more?

Zambia

The whole force is uniformed.

Detectives can be assigned back to uniform.

Not to mention Formal wear for when they get awarded medals for being a good detective and stuff.

If your a Garda you have to have a uniform.

Pappa Charlie

An Udaras wrote: »

Just over 300 member of the Airport Police Fire Service nationally between the three state airports. With over a hundred serving Police Officers,Sergeants & Inspectors in Dublin alone excluding senior officers etc..

No point denying its a lot easier to introduce a new uniform,training or equipment to the Airport Polis as its a much smaller force then the Gardai.

How many of the entire Garda force is uniformed? Would it be around 6000 or more?

In fairness its not even close to the smallest division within the Gardai, and you are catering for a security situation rather than policing, Gardai also have to provide firearms, patrol cars, RSU units, water units, mounted units, motorcyclists gear, bike gear and search team units all nationally. I try to clothes my kids as best i can but if you ask me to kit out the local national school the standard may drop to match the funding.

talla10

Terrontress wrote: »

talla10 wrote: »

Current hat is impossible to run in, looks silly and has no operational value

A Garda hat increases overall height of the wearer thereby increasing their visibility and providing a psychological advantage.

A baseball cap makes the wearer look like a....a....baseball player?

The hat in no way whatsoever provides ANY psychological advantage neither does it increase visibility.

If baseball caps were introduced, along with combat trousers etc, if would be a better looking operational uniform that's better adapted to carry out operational duties, more comfortable, members would wear caps a lot more often that the current hat and during a foot persuit the cap wouldn't fall off & inpede the member!! But it'll never happen

Mr Simpson

talla10 wrote: »

The hat in no way whatsoever provides ANY psychological advantage neither does it increase visibility.

If baseball caps were introduced, along with combat trousers etc, if would be a better looking operational uniform that's better adapted to carry out operational duties, more comfortable, members would wear caps a lot more often that the current hat and during a foot persuit the cap wouldn't fall off & inpede the member!! But it'll never happen

Imho Baseball caps look stupid and unprofessional, no matter how bad the current hat is, a baseball cap looks worse (obviously there are exceptions, rsu etc. But as part of a general unfiorm I don't think it works). And practicality wise, if it isn't properly fitted or of good quality & fit, its as likely to fall off as the current hat.

Boyeen30

mmcn90 wrote: »

Imho Baseball caps look stupid and unprofessional, no matter how bad the current hat is, a baseball cap looks worse (obviously there are exceptions, rsu etc. But as part of a general unfiorm I don't think it works). And practicality wise, if it isn't properly fitted or of good quality & fit, its as likely to fall off as the current hat.

I agree . They had a trial in the Uk, anyone over 30 hated them, would a 40 YO copper look professional wearing a BBall hat . Nope

Holsten

Maybe this is a stupid question, but do you get disciplined you don't wear the hat, or the tie or the regulation stuff?

I know if I was out on the street I wouldn't feel too happy chasing after some guy wearing a shirt, tie and slacks!

Boyeen30

I've worn both uniforms on the streets

Old uniform - white Shirts / itchy trousers / Uk bobby beat helmet

New uniform - Now wearing combats / black wick dry shirts/ no tie / flat cap
Chased in both ... Not too much of a difference

Never know anyone to get into trouble for not wearing their hat etc .. But I've had decent Sgts on my teams

talla10

Boyeen30 wrote: »

I agree . They had a trial in the Uk, anyone over 30 hated them, would a 40 YO copper look professional wearing a BBall hat . Nope

How many Gardai over 40 are there on regular units these days that are operational? For court, public office, posts, summonses etc the current uniform is fine

mmcn90 wrote: »

Imho Baseball caps look stupid and unprofessional, no matter how bad the current hat is, a baseball cap looks worse (obviously there are exceptions, rsu etc. But as part of a general unfiorm I don't think it works). And practicality wise, if it isn't properly fitted or of good quality & fit, its as likely to fall off as the current hat.

A baseball cap would look stupid with the current uniform but if we got better magnum boots, combat pants etc and changed the whole operational uniform then in my opinion a baseball cap would look more modern, professional and be better suited in an operational capacity.

MEMBER12

Agree totally

Potential-Monke

Holsten wrote: »

Maybe this is a stupid question, but do you get disciplined you don't wear the hat, or the tie or the regulation stuff?

I know if I was out on the street I wouldn't feel too happy chasing after some guy wearing a shirt, tie and slacks!

Not stupid at all. The regulations are there that you are supposed to wear the uniform properly with all dealings with the public. Tie is supposed to be up, shirt closes, vest and utility belt on, and cap on when not in a car. But, especially in the case of the cap if you are driver or observer in the car, there is leeway in wearing it. If you're driver/observer, you're not expected to wear the cap everytime you get out of the car, unless it's for a road traffic related matter (usually collisions).

But, on post duty, on the beat, preserving a scene, etc, you are expected to wear the cap at all times outside the station.

And, as those regulations are there you are expected to abide by them, and can be reprimanded for them, usually if there is media/someone important around.

irishrgr

As for uniforms, well it's the same over here....some days you have to ask what are the leaders thinking? We went from a relatively comfortable tan poly/cotton blend shirt & dark brown cotton trousers to same colour shirt now in 100% poly and 100% poly black trousers. They suck in the heat and are scratchy. I do like our new jacket though, black Goretex with reflector striping and zip out fleece.

As regards the AGS High-vis jackets, is that a legal (health & safety) requirement that a police officer must wear high-vis or just an agency policy? I understand the need to be seen, but I don't think the high-vis looks very professional. I tend to associate the colour with safety vests for workers etc. We have high-vis vests for wear as needed, just pop it over the uniform.

In other news, did my annual taser recertification recently, good times getting zapped by that thing!!!! Trust me, it incapacitates you!!!! Yes, being tased is a requirement as part of the training.

A

pah

Hi vis is super-ghey makes you look more like a traffic warden or site manager. That'd why I wear the vest over it. Its more comfortable too.

A high vis vest cover would be ideal.

Potential-Monke

irishrgr wrote: »

As regards the AGS High-vis jackets, is that a legal (health & safety) requirement that a police officer must wear high-vis or just an agency policy? I understand the need to be seen, but I don't think the high-vis looks very professional. I tend to associate the colour with safety vests for workers etc. We have high-vis vests for wear as needed, just pop it over the uniform.

It's a safety thing i believe, told to wear it when dealing with any traffic related matter where you're on the road, and at evening/night-time as the day gets dark. I don't think it's a legal requirement though.

irishrgr wrote: »

In other news, did my annual taser recertification recently, good times getting zapped by that thing!!!! Trust me, it incapacitates you!!!! Yes, being tased is a requirement as part of the training.

I'd love to go through that, just to understand how it feels.

Zambia

irishrgr wrote: »

In other news, did my annual taser recertification recently, good times getting zapped by that thing!!!! Trust me, it incapacitates you!!!! Yes, being tased is a requirement as part of the training.

A

A question what is worse being sprayed 4 times full face or 1 tazer exposure?

Not blow back full exposure like?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Beats me why AGS are still wearing the current uniform.

It reminds me of the uniform we wore in the army up until the early nineties, apart from the vest our working dress was shirt, tie, awfully heavy ichy cotton pants..

We changed over to a light cotton (olive drab green) working dress, including a short lived baseball cap ~ short lived because they're awful, go out of shape and look neglected very quickly, although we still use them oversea's.

Now we've DPM's (camo) and instead of the old web belts and pouches we've a personal load carrying battle vest, with two type of boots.. Its made a massive difference in barracks and operationally and it beats us in work why you lads don't have similar (in black/navy blue).

I hope you get something lads, you bloody well deserved to be brought up to date.

irishrgr

Closest thing I can explain the taser is it's like hitting an electric cattle fence....complete paralysis, you fall to the ground (in trainign they have two others support you for the fall). However, compared to the pepper, it does end after 15 seconds. Pepper blinds you but you can still fight, move, run....no so much with the taser....you go down and are completely incapicated. Best piece of LE kit ever.

As regards the uniforms, I am not a fan of the external vests. Too paramilitary and they look sloppy unless you are in a utility/combat uniform. I believe the police should look professional and have a reasonably practical uniform (pockets, warm, etc). We wear our vests under the shirt and it's fine. With only having a belt, you are limited to what you can carry, thus you only carry whats important. The high vis needs to be only for road events....the blue jacket & shirt look smart & professional although I'd dump the tie.

MissEmcee

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Not stupid at all. The regulations are there that you are supposed to wear the uniform properly with all dealings with the public. Tie is supposed to be up, shirt closes, vest and utility belt on, and cap on when not in a car. But, especially in the case of the cap if you are driver or observer in the car, there is leeway in wearing it. If you're driver/observer, you're not expected to wear the cap everytime you get out of the car, unless it's for a road traffic related matter (usually collisions).

But, on post duty, on the beat, preserving a scene, etc, you are expected to wear the cap at all times outside the station.

And, as those regulations are there you are expected to abide by them, and can be reprimanded for them, usually if there is media/someone important around.

Very true. A picture in the local rag while preserving a scene without your hat would not be helpful.