Dublin Bikes Theft - find out what happens next!!

BostonB

Macy0161 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0730/1224321087209.html


I just assumed Docklands meant the station, so I might be wrong on that.:o

Seems like they are putting them near but not close to those stations at least.

If people use them commuting it creates a big imbalance on the use of the stations. All in one direction morning then the reverse in the evening. Whereas casual users and tourists would tend to spread the bikes around more evenly.

brandon_flowers

Diarmuid wrote: »

I was living in Nice when they were introduced. They were the biggest pile of poo you could imagine. I wouldn't swap the DB scheme for them in a million years.

Imagine the DB scheme where there was a computer per parking slot. Now imagine at least 50% of those computers working some of the time.

You'd swap Nice for Dublin though (only for the weather). It's full of scum too.

manwithaplan

brandon_flowers wrote: »

full of scum

Classy.

ClonNGB

quagmired wrote: »

Im a regular DB user. Frustrated lately that I never get a spot to drop the bike off on merrion square. Ive paid around 60 eur in fines from having to bring the bike to work and bring it back at lunchtime. The machine suggests awful return locations e.g. the morning in question it suggested I bring it all the way back to custom house quay where I got it!

Not really an option when I need to be at work on time!

So stupidly on the morning in question I took the advise of a fellow DB user waiting round at the merrion sq station and locked the bike to another one. Apparently there's a van that goes round rebalancing the number of bikes at the stations.

Since then the bike has gone AWOL and DB are telling me Im liable for a 150 fine. Ive written to them explaining I accept reponsibility that by the letter of the law the bike is your baby but perhaps the fine could be reduced given I'm the victim of a theft, have tried to rectify the situation and have already encountered significant fines. Ive also asked them whats the procedure re: reporting the theft to the gardai, checking CCTV footage in the area, identifying the bike location by RFID etc.

Is the DB system a realistic way of getting to work across the city or more of a novelty for people not in any hurry?

Should they provide much more time to return a bike if the station is full? e.g. if Id known I could return the bike at lunchtime and maybe only pay a euro or two Id have done so.


Will keep this updated with progress!

Just reading this thread, it is apparent that the system has some serious flaws. I can imagine rushing to work only to find no place to return the bike and then facing a penalty because of it. Normally, when you put millions (of OUR money) putting in a system like this you ensure you have enough capacity to handle peak load. I guarantee they spent millions on consultants etc. planning this.
Having the punter stuck exposed to thieves and penalties is no way of encouraging people to use this system. It's like building these waste collections stations but having restricted opening hours and entry charges. How much of all this is just lip service to the eco crowd, with little interest in seeing the facilities actually work.
In this case, it seems to me that DB need to put their hands up and admit the system breakdown. It's not rocket science, if they want I'll send them on Queueing Theory 101 book from college.

Diarmuid

ClonNGB wrote: »

Just reading this thread, .

based on the rest of your post, I'd seriously doubt it.

BostonB

+1 on reading the thread.

ClonNGB wrote: »

...
In this case, it seems to me that DB need to put their hands up and admit the system breakdown. It's not rocket science, if they want I'll send them on Queueing Theory 101 book from college.

The system is fine. You just can't leave common sense at the door when you use it.

Dermot Illogical

BostonB wrote: »

The system is fine. You just can't leave common sense at the door when you use it.

It's mostly fine, but the distribution needs tweaking in places. Even so, it works well enough.
+1 on the common sense. It can be a rare enough commodity among DB users at times.

seamus

ClonNGB wrote: »

Just reading this thread, it is apparent that the system has some serious flaws. I can imagine rushing to work only to find no place to return the bike and then facing a penalty because of it.

Any system should not be required to accomodate people's failure to plan. If you're "rushing to work", then the fault lies with your inability to plan, not the system's inability to accomodate your failure.
The OP has clearly stated that this has happened to him a number of times. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would change their tack, find a quieter station and use that instead, walking the remaining distance to work.

Normally, when you put millions (of OUR money) putting in a system like this you ensure you have enough capacity to handle peak load. I guarantee they spent millions on consultants etc. planning this.

DCC didn't spend any money on this scheme, it was built by JCDecaux in exchange for advertising space. You could argue that it "cost" us, but at no point did we spend any money.

Lumen

seamus wrote: »

Any system should not be required to accomodate people's failure to plan. If you're "rushing to work", then the fault lies with your inability to plan, not the system's inability to accomodate your failure

If someone is able to plan their life so that they're never in a rush, I'd suggest that they're probably not living a particularly full life.

You're arguing that the end user should plan around a failure of the system and adjust their needs accordingly, rather than the system being managed to satisfy the need. I disagree.

People want to use the system to fulfill a multi-modal commute. Is that unreasonable? If it gets people out of their cars it's probably a good thing even if it means more trucks/vans driving around Dublin rebalancing bikes.

Is it really practically impossible to rebalance bikes to allow people to do this? I've no idea, it's probably solvable with money, in which case there's an argument for increasing prices to make the service usable for busy people.

Anyway, when I go to a busy shop I can instantly see the length of the queue and decide to go elsewhere. I can't do that with a DB because the queue is somewhere else. The idea that users should have to pull out a €500 smartphone and estimate the likelihood of their being free spaces at a number of stations in a given radius of their destination in 20 minutes time is ridiculous.

Diarmuid

Lumen wrote: »

IPeople want to use the system to fulfill a multi-modal commute. Is that unreasonable?

Whether it's reasonable or not, it doesn't work well for such requirement.

Like you said, if you throw money at it, it's possible that you could make it work. Maybe a certain number of bikes and spots at each stand could be reserved for a "commuter" subscriber. Then charge them €100/year or whatever it takes to solve the problem.

However judging by the success of the current system, they don't need to cater for such a user so looks like you might be waiting for such a system

quagmired

Lumen wrote: »

If someone is able to plan their life so that they're never in a rush, I'd suggest that they're probably not living a particularly full life.

You're arguing that the end user should plan around a failure of the system and adjust their needs accordingly, rather than the system being managed to satisfy the need. I disagree.

People want to use the system to fulfill a multi-modal commute. Is that unreasonable? If it gets people out of their cars it's probably a good thing even if it means more trucks/vans driving around Dublin rebalancing bikes.

Is it really practically impossible to rebalance bikes to allow people to do this? I've no idea, it's probably solvable with money, in which case there's an argument for increasing prices to make the service usable for busy people.

Anyway, when I go to a busy shop I can instantly see the length of the queue and decide to go elsewhere. I can't do that with a DB because the queue is somewhere else. The idea that users should have to pull out a €500 smartphone and estimate the likelihood of their being free spaces at a number of stations in a given radius of their destination in 20 minutes time is ridiculous.

Excellent post. These systems should be there to serve us, not us there to serve the system. The system is failing in terms of rebalancing, therefore it needs to be adjusted. One such way would be a much longer grace period if stations are full. Its absolutely barmy to suggest we can spend our day spinning round the city looking for empty spaces or glued to smartphones that tell us there's one free space in a bay 2 miles away!

AltAccount

What if you drove to work and had to do 3 laps of the block before you found a space, wasting 25 mins and making you late for work? How is that different from the OP's situation?

Would that situation be the driver's fault or the Council's? What would the employer think?

Would that entitle the driver to double park, blocking in another random car?
What would you think if the driver left the car unlocked so people could move it if needed?
What told the Gardai say if you went to them with a theft report when someone nicked your laptop from the back seat of the unlocked car?

Macy0161

BostonB wrote: »

If people use them commuting it creates a big imbalance on the use of the stations. All in one direction morning then the reverse in the evening. Whereas casual users and tourists would tend to spread the bikes around more evenly.

It already does happen, on the southside at least. In my experience, the stations on the canal empty early, the city centre ones are full.

Obviously, there are tweaks to the system, and earlier rebalancing would help, but I'm not sure there's anyway of guaranteeing either a bike at the outer bike stations, or space at the inner ones, as people appear to be suggesting. No matter how big the stations are made, or how frequently they're rebalanced, I don't see how it could be guaranteed.

For what it's worth to the OP, the station by Baggot Street bridge is normally pretty empty in the mornings, and if not there, the one up near Lesson Street Bridge is. You could walk from either of these to Merrion Square in 10 minutes or so.

Lumen

AltAccount wrote: »

What if you drove to work and had to do 3 laps of the block before you found a space, wasting 25 mins and making you late for work? How is that different from the OP's situation?

It's different because bikes are supposed to be a superior means of transport!

buffalo

quagmired wrote: »

Excellent post. These systems should be there to serve us, not us there to serve the system. The system is failing in terms of rebalancing, therefore it needs to be adjusted. One such way would be a much longer grace period if stations are full. Its absolutely barmy to suggest we can spend our day spinning round the city looking for empty spaces or glued to smartphones that tell us there's one free space in a bay 2 miles away!

What? You get 15mins grace, and you can check at the full station where the nearest empty station is. I don't have a smartphone, and I manage okay. You're not spinning around the city, you're going to the next nearest station with spaces, which is usually less than 10minutes away.

You encountered one flaw in the system, which is that it cannot handle commuter traffic (which it wasn't designed for). Did you get in touch with DB and suggest they need to address it? No, you continued in the same ridiculous pattern, running up extra charges instead of giving yourself an extra ten minutes in the morning. And now you're blaming DB for the problem coming to a crux. Some personal responsibility and common sense would be a fine thing.

Lumen

buffalo wrote: »

You encountered one flaw in the system, which is that it cannot handle commuter traffic (which it wasn't designed for). Did you get in touch with DB and suggest they need to address it? No, you continued in the same ridiculous pattern, running up extra charges instead of giving yourself an extra ten minutes in the morning. And now you're blaming DB for the problem coming to a crux. Some personal responsibility and common sense would be a fine thing.

Why are you (and others) being so prickly/defensive about the scheme?

What's wrong with a bit of constructive criticism?

BostonB

Lumen wrote: »

Why are you (and others) being so prickly/defensive about the scheme?

What's wrong with a bit of constructive criticism?

Because the criticism is like trying to use a banana as a spade.

Considering it would cheaper and quicker for the OP to use their own bike, it makes no sense to use the Dublin bike for his journey.

Commuters only travel one direction in Dublin, all at the same time. DB wasn't intended for commuters for that reason. it unbalances the system. Otherwise what happens you've effectively created a bus for bicycles to move them around.

rp

BostonB wrote: »

Commuters only travel one direction in Dublin, all at the same time. DB wasn't intended for commuters for that reason. it unbalances the system.

I must admit, I had always assumed that commuting was one of the points of DB : in DBs strategic planning document they hold it up as providing "a fully integrated transport alternative", and spend many pages talking about commuting modes and distances, such as:

Outside of the peak hour work related usage other users such as tourists aid in the natural redistribution of bikes through the course of the day as they undertake journeys which are less commuter-orientated.

Provision of an integrated, more resilient public transport network in the Dublin City that affords commuters a greater degree of flexibility, connectivity and choice when carrying out their journeys on a daily basis.

BostonB

rp wrote: »

I must admit, I had always assumed that commuting was one of the points of DB : in DBs strategic planning document they hold it up as providing "a fully integrated transport alternative", and spend many pages talking about commuting modes and distances, such as:

Thats a new document from 2011 with the expansion. I wonder were the original documents aims, objectives, in 2009 differently focused.

Because certainly we had discussions when it started about the bike stations were nowhere near the train stations and the answer given was because it wasn't intended for people getting off trains, or they'd just empty the bike stations every time a train came in.

BostonB

Lumen wrote: »

...Anyway, when I go to a busy shop I can instantly see the length of the queue and decide to go elsewhere. I can't do that with a DB because the queue is somewhere else. The idea that users should have to pull out a €500 smartphone and estimate the likelihood of their being free spaces at a number of stations in a given radius of their destination in 20 minutes time is ridiculous.

Well the only way to keep you updated is some mobile means. Best way is a mobile phone which you can pick up for €50~100 Considering hes been caught for €60 in fines and now €150 for a bike.

There's an argument to be made for paying to reserve a slot at your destination for 15 mins (then it gets released) after you take a bike.

But it still wouldn't help if you got to a stand and can't reserve stand at your destination because people have already done that. Arte you going to wait 15mins for a stand to come free? All it does is add complexity in a system that isn't needed.

Its like trying to find parking spot at peak time. Theres finite resources.

AltAccount

Lumen wrote: »

It's different because bikes are supposed to be a superior means of transport!

Superior presumably from A to B, but in this instance with a finite number of spaces subject to supply and demand.

I'm not defending JCD blindly, if certain DB stops regularly get jammed up, then they should be made to address it.
It doesn't excuse the OP's relinquishing of their duties by just walking away from the situation.

buffalo

Lumen wrote: »

Why are you (and others) being so prickly/defensive about the scheme?

What's wrong with a bit of constructive criticism?

Constructive criticism is fine, but you can't use it as a reason for why one shouldn't pay a penalty validly incurred.

There are regular threads in the commuting forum about people who don't have correct change for the ticket machine at the Dart/train, and then complain about being fined on the train. If you don't have change, get some, then get the ticket. If you choose to hop on the train without a ticket, then you are risking being fined. You can complain that there should be a ticket booth, but you still boarded the train without a ticket.

I see this situation as being the exact same. This thread isn't entitled "criticisms of the DB scheme", if it was, I'd be approaching the topic from a different perspective.

Undercover Elephant

Am I the only person on this thread who is wondering what exactly one does with a stolen dublinbike? You can't sell it. You can't park it in a DB stand, and it would stick out locked up anywhere else. I can imagine some student who's bored with traffic cones sticking it in his room, but at 25kg it's not the easiest thing to get up stairs - and besides, this one was stolen in the middle of the morning. Is there someone heaving it up and down Howth hill to get some training in?

Ant

quagmired wrote: »

Im a regular DB user. Frustrated lately that I never get a spot to drop the bike off on merrion square.

Seeing as you never get a spot on Merrion Square, it seems obvious that you'd be better off leaving 10 minutes earlier and simply walking from Custom House Quay: no more stress and worrying about needing a free space.

I regularly use Dublin Bikes but I've no expectation (more of a hope) that there'll be a free bike when I want to take one - or a free space at my destination. It'd be great if the stations were kept permanently balanced but Dublin Bikes don't promise this and while I see the trucks transporting bikes to re-balance the stations, I don't expect miracles from them.

BostonB

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

Am I the only person on this thread who is wondering what exactly one does with a stolen dublinbike? ...

People steal stuff for no reason other than they can. They probably chucked it in the canal. Or cycled it home and threw it in a ditch.

The OP has never explained how they locked it, and what they did with the key.

reprazant

Why do people keep mentioning smart phones.

On each station, you are able to see a list of the stations near to the one you are on and how many bikes/free spaces each has.

endacl

BostonB wrote: »

Lumen wrote: »

...Anyway, when I go to a busy shop I can instantly see the length of the queue and decide to go elsewhere. I can't do that with a DB because the queue is somewhere else. The idea that users should have to pull out a €500 smartphone and estimate the likelihood of their being free spaces at a number of stations in a given radius of their destination in 20 minutes time is ridiculous.

Considering hes been caught for €60 in fines and now €150 for a bike.

He hasn't paid a single fine. He paid a rental fee, that he agreed to when he took out his subscription. Honestly, this is like trying to explain to people that there's no such thing as a 'fast lane' on a motorway...

He lost his 150 deposit because the bike was stolen as a direct result if his stupid and selfish choice of action.

I commute on my own bike. I use the db for nipping around town if there's one available. If there's not, I walk. Simple.
It's a great scheme, but there's no point in whining if the stations are either full or empty when you would prefer them to be otherwise. It's a shared facility. It can't be fully available for all the people all the time. it wasn't designed to be.

BostonB

reprazant wrote: »

Why do people keep mentioning smart phones.

On each station, you are able to see a list of the stations near to the one you are on and how many bikes/free spaces each has.

Its just much easier than using the station. If like me, you have no idea of the names of the streets. http://droidmill.com/bikedroid-247952.html#.UFc0d41lR4c the other point is they can fill up quickly before you get there. The one near Pearse Station is a good example. 4 slots left. All gone everytime I go for it.

reprazant

While I am sure it is much easier, not having one is no excuse for just dumping a bike. If you get to a station which is full, the functionality is there on each machine to see where there are free stands. There is also a map on the back of each station.

Its not as if the OP was in a place with limited amounts of stations anyway. There are lots within a 10 minute walk of Merrion sq if he could have been bothered. But he didn't bother, he just dumped the bike.

Lumen

endacl wrote: »

He hasn't paid a single fine. He paid a rental fee, that he agreed to when he took out his subscription. Honestly, this is like trying to explain to people that there's no such thing as a 'fast lane' on a motorway

That point has never even been under discussion, since it's screamingly obvious.