Dublin Bikes Theft - find out what happens next!!

quagmired

Im a regular DB user. Frustrated lately that I never get a spot to drop the bike off on merrion square. Ive paid around 60 eur in fines from having to bring the bike to work and bring it back at lunchtime. The machine suggests awful return locations e.g. the morning in question it suggested I bring it all the way back to custom house quay where I got it!

Not really an option when I need to be at work on time!

So stupidly on the morning in question I took the advise of a fellow DB user waiting round at the merrion sq station and locked the bike to another one. Apparently there's a van that goes round rebalancing the number of bikes at the stations.

Since then the bike has gone AWOL and DB are telling me Im liable for a 150 fine. Ive written to them explaining I accept reponsibility that by the letter of the law the bike is your baby but perhaps the fine could be reduced given I'm the victim of a theft, have tried to rectify the situation and have already encountered significant fines. Ive also asked them whats the procedure re: reporting the theft to the gardai, checking CCTV footage in the area, identifying the bike location by RFID etc.

Is the DB system a realistic way of getting to work across the city or more of a novelty for people not in any hurry?

Should they provide much more time to return a bike if the station is full? e.g. if Id known I could return the bike at lunchtime and maybe only pay a euro or two Id have done so.


Will keep this updated with progress!

Lumen

quagmired wrote: »

So stupidly on the morning in question I took the advise of a fellow DB user waiting round at the merrion sq station and locked the bike to another one

Presumably with the key still in the lock?

Yes, full stations are a giant pain in the arse. I think there's an app for finding free stations, but it seems like the rebalancing is just not keeping up with usage patterns.

I wonder what the ratio of stations to bikes is?

C3PO

I wonder is the Dublin Bike scheme really designed for people to use for their daily commute? That's a genuine question I really don't know what the aims of the scheme are?

€150 doesn't seem unreasonable given that as far as Dublin Bikes are concerned the bike has gone AWOL while in your care - I'd guess the replacement cost would be substantially more than that!

DirkVoodoo

Bike SHARING scheme...I don't think keeping a bike for ~4 hours is what they had in mind.

If you are using it to commute daily, why not buy your own bike? I use the Dublin bike card just for hopping in and out of town, I wouldn't rely on it for my daily commute.

I haven't heard any updates on the expansion scheme, but some stations are always empty/full and DB don't seem to be targeting these more as they should, e.g. at the canal by Leeson street in the mornings.

manwithaplan

quagmired wrote: »

Is the DB system a realistic way of getting to work across the city

Not in my view.

I use them to head up town for lunch, to get to meetings etc but not usually at peak times. I have had to hang around for a couple of minutes until someone frees up a space as well as occasionally dropping off bikes at other stations but I always make sure I find a way to return them. I think this is the only sensible approach and it just doesn't work for commuting.

subway

Thye knock time off a journey, if there is one free. You can get around the city casually. But they are not a commuting tool.
The mobile site gives stats so you can predict which stands will be full or empty so you can kind of plan around that.
I use them if i have to get a dart instead of cycling all the way into town and i figure out within a couple of days which stands would be empty and which would be full on my journey.

I just aimed for a different stand if i really eanted one.

Since you knew merrion would be mostly full, it seems a little strange to me that you would keep aiming for it. Aim for soemthing a bit further away that still maks your walk shorter and saves you time.

buffalo

They only work for commuting if you're going against the general flow of outskirts of the city into the centre in the morning, and vice versa in the evening.

My "home" station is on the outskirts, so often empty first thing (so I got to the next one), but my destination station is also on the outskirts, so I'm guaranteed a spot.

RacoonQueen

Can understand you'd be annoyed but isn't there two stations at merrions square? One on each side of the park?

DirkVoodoo

Slightly OT, but I emailed them recently as two bikes I was on in succession had the left crank catching the plastic fender on the upstroke and the gears were slipping from 3rd down to 2nd. Neither of these is safe in traffic.

Maintenance and the logistical shortcomings make me wonder about the long term future of the scheme. DB really need to, *sigh*, "get on their bikes" and allow the scheme to match the swelling subscriber numbers.

Maybe this is what happens when an advertising agency don't get quite as good a deal as they first thought.

Wishbone Ash

quagmired wrote: »

and locked the bike to another one

How did you lock it? ......With it's own cable?....And you left the key with it? :eek:

I'm afraid I've little sympathy for you.

gaffmaster

In locking one Dublin Bike to another, you effectively rendered two bikes un-rentable.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was called in by a frustrated customer. I wonder what DB's policy is for this type of scenario.

GTDolanator

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Can understand you'd be annoyed but isn't there two stations at merrions square? One on each side of the park?

Correct

One just down from the junction of upper mount st

And one just across from the museum

stas

Apologies for not adding anything constructive here, but I can't help wondering that Customs Quay to Merrion Sq is about 15 minutes walk - were you able to reduce your travel time all that much for all this hassle?

Dandelion6

This is why I keep saying it's not enough for DB to expand to cover a wider area of the city, it also needs to increase in density, so there are more stations within the most central area.

subway

stas wrote: »

Apologies for not adding anything constructive here, but I can't help wondering that Customs Quay to Merrion Sq is about 15 minutes walk - were you able to reduce your travel time all that much for all this hassle?

well, in fairness, thats (without the reliability) the point of them. to save 10 minutes on a journey here and there. if the OP gets a bike 80% of the time and saves 10 minutes on the 15 minute journey twice a day then he's saving 80 minutes per week. add it up over the year and its a decent amout of time. the added convenience, potentially, encourages the OP not to use a car, and word of mouth may encourage others (definitely happening) to use DB instead of taxis, cars, buses for short journeys in the city. the OP, like me, after a few months of using DB, could end up just cycling all the way into town.

Dandelion6 wrote: »

This is why I keep saying it's not enough for DB to expand to cover a wider area of the city, it also needs to increase in density, so there are more stations within the most central area.

its actually boringly predictable which stations are going to be empty / full.
this site even gives you a trend grpah to see it http://dublinbikes2go.com/home
with extra resources and some planning, there would almost never be a station that is full or empty. adding extra stands wont resolve the clustering problem (people still want to go to the same places). it may alleviate it short term, but as popularity continues to grow, its better redistribution thats going to be needed

Doctor Bob

The €60 you've paid in the past comprises standard charges for journeys longer than 30 minutes, not 'fines'. That's not a line of argument I'd be pushing with JCD if you're looking for leniency (which, I'd add, is probably a very long shot anyway, based both on what you've said above and on the fact that you signed a contract with DB and now appear - from their perspective - to be trying to get out of it).

To answer your specific questions..

• I would never rely on DBs for a commuting trip. That's not their purpose.

• No they shouldn't let you take a bike for a half-day for a euro or two more. That defeats the purpose of the scheme.

Back when we still had a Dublin City Cycling Officer, I remember discussing the DBs with him at some event or other. I was (and still am, but to a much lesser extent) of the opinion that €10 is too low for the annual charge, given the very high % of 'free' trips that are made. He, however, disagreed, arguing that a higher annual charge would result in higher expectations from users, i.e. if someone paid, say, €50 annual membership, they would be more annoyed/frustrated/whatever if a stand were empty when they needed a bike or full when they wanted to park one, whereas with the €10 fee, most users saw the scheme as a nice bonus to their commute, but not fundamental to their journey.

On the bigger question of the DB expansion, I understand that DCC is currently examining sites for the new docking stations as part of the three-fold increase in bike numbers. The funding model will be different (NTA-funded rather than by advertising), but it will still, afaik, be run by JCDecaux. Given the difficulties in finding suitable locations at (max.) 300 metre centres, I can't see how a higher density of docking stations would be achieved.

subway

Doctor Bob wrote: »

with the €10 fee, most users saw the scheme as a nice bonus to their commute, but not fundamental to their journey.

couldn't agree more with this point

***

in relation to general point raised in the OP, the alternative system, is the "call a bike" system in berlin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_a_Bike

To return:
Lock the bike to a fixed object, and select "return bike" from the bike's touchscreen. A code will be generated which then has to be telephoned to the control centre, as proof that the bike was locked. As well one has to give the exact street names of the cross roads, which has to be within the permitted town area.

hamburg (afaik) uses a hybrid of the 2 systems, allowing you to return a bike by locking it in the general vicinity of the station. i believe it uses a wireless system at the terminal to register that the bike is nearby, but relies on redistribution of the locked bikes (if you are ever there, check the stations in town centre on a saturday night - mayhem!)

quagmired

Hi all - thanks for your support. No update yet but I'll contact them again today. The most important thing is reporting the theft to the gardai and checking out CCTV footage etc.
As I mentioned in the OP I do accept responsibility for not returning the bike. Locking it to another bike didn't deny anyone use of anything, both stations on merrion sq were full to the gills with 4 or 5 people waiting round for free spots. Still full at lunchtime.

If DB aren't able to provide some form of effective re-balancing then they should let us keep the bikes a bit longer. If there's no station on that side of the city to return the bike, surely we should have more than 15 minutes extra to return it?

Anyway I'm not looking to get off scott-free I've asked DB for some leniency, perhaps a reduction in the fine. I didn't steal the bike, I'm victim of a theft, just seems crazy that I could end up spending 100s on the DB scheme when walking would have been quicker!

fletch

I still don't understand how you "locked" it since when you lock it the key pops out....so how were you going to ensure the key was returned to the correct bike?

endacl

quagmired wrote: »

Hi all - thanks for your support. No update yet but I'll contact them again today. The most important thing is reporting the theft to the gardai and checking out CCTV footage etc.
As I mentioned in the OP I do accept responsibility for not returning the bike. Locking it to another bike didn't deny anyone use of anything, both stations on merrion sq were full to the gills with 4 or 5 people waiting round for free spots. Still full at lunchtime.

If DB aren't able to provide some form of effective re-balancing then they should let us keep the bikes a bit longer. If there's no station on that side of the city to return the bike, surely we should have more than 15 minutes extra to return it?

Anyway I'm not looking to get off scott-free I've asked DB for some leniency, perhaps a reduction in the fine. I didn't steal the bike, I'm victim of a theft, just seems crazy that I could end up spending 100s on the DB scheme when walking would have been quicker!

Seriously? A Dublin bike was stolen. How are you the victim of a theft? You signed up to the t&c when you took out the subscription. The bike was in your care, and even if it hadn't been stolen locking it to another was a silly move. A E150 penalty, which won't cover the cost of a replacement really is getting away lightly. It will cost db more than this to replace it.

Put it this way. If you'd borrowed my bike, and later just dumped if off somewhere with the key in the lock because it was convenient for you, I'd be looking for more than 150...

BostonB

The bikes are not designed for commuters. Thats why they are not at the train stations. The only practical way to use them when commuting, or on a regular basis is to have the app on a smartphone so you can plan your journey to an empty station.

What did you do with the key when you locked it?

ArmaniJeanss

quagmired wrote: »

Hi all - thanks for your support. No update yet but I'll contact them again today. The most important thing is reporting the theft to the gardai and checking out CCTV footage etc.
As I mentioned in the OP I do accept responsibility for not returning the bike. Locking it to another bike didn't deny anyone use of anything, both stations on merrion sq were full to the gills with 4 or 5 people waiting round for free spots. Still full at lunchtime.

The station may have been full in the morning, and full at lunchtime but I'm sure there was empty spaces at some stage of the morning.

****
It looks like your initial cycle was circa 5 minutes. So when the machine gave you an extra 15 minutes you actually had 40 minutes (25+15) still remaining, but chose to effectively abandon the bike.
Could you not have cycled it to work and then checked for spaces 35 minutes later?

brandon_flowers

Just as an example Nice where I hang out quiet regularly at the weekends has a Velo Bleu system with an annual subscription of €25 and a bike is free for the first 30 mins, €1 for up to an hour and €2 for each hour after that.

Granted the weather in Nice is more conducive to cycling but the availability of these bikes is unbelievable. There is a station literally every 500m so you are guaranteed to be able to return your bike. See map below, they even have them at the airport.

http://www.velobleu.org/ftp/FR_documents_velobleu/Plan_Map_v3.pdf

Not knowing too much about the DB system but looking at the map, the density required for schemes to work is something like what Nice has.

Lusk Doyle

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Just as an example Nice where I hang out quiet regularly at the weekends has a Velo Bleu system with an annual subscription of €25 and a bike is free for the first 30 mins, €1 for up to an hour and €2 for each hour after that.

Granted the weather in Nice is more conducive to cycling but the availability of these bikes is unbelievable. There is a station literally every 500m so you are guaranteed to be able to return your bike. See map below, they even have them at the airport.

http://www.velobleu.org/ftp/FR_documents_velobleu/Plan_Map_v3.pdf

Not knowing too much about the DB system but looking at the map, the density required for schemes to work is something like what Nice has.

I'm forever onto the lads in Monte Carlo about a mcb scheme for when I'm over at the weekends but no joy yet! :-)

Macy0161

BostonB wrote: »

The bikes are not designed for commuters. Thats why they are not at the train stations.

I think the expansion list of DB stations includes railway stations.

I would've thought that a potential solution would be to expand the size of the current stations, as well as add more. And by now the usage patterns should be well established for them to manage the movement of bikes between stations (i.e. do it the early mornings clearing out the city centre ones and replenishing the outer ones). Cost maybe an issue, which is where higher subscription could be justified.

Diarmuid

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Granted the weather in Nice is more conducive to cycling but the availability of these bikes is unbelievable. There is a station literally every 500m so you are guaranteed to be able to return your bike. See map below, they even have them at the airport.

I was living in Nice when they were introduced. They were the biggest pile of poo you could imagine. I wouldn't swap the DB scheme for them in a million years.

Imagine the DB scheme where there was a computer per parking slot. Now imagine at least 50% of those computers working some of the time.

BostonB

I looked but couldn't find a list of the new locations. Where are you seeing that?

When I get the train, all the stations on my route are all used/empty so its impractical to use it for my commute. That said it actually takes less time to cycle my 14k commute on my own bike than get the train and use a DB!

subway

BostonB wrote: »

I looked but couldn't find a list of the new locations. Where are you seeing that?

http://dublinobserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/expmap-large.jpg
Havent seen exac loactions yet

Macy0161

BostonB wrote: »

I looked but couldn't find a list of the new locations. Where are you seeing that?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0730/1224321087209.html

The new bike stations will initially be installed east of the current stations towards the Docklands, and west to Heuston Station.The new bike stations will initially be installed east of the current stations towards the Docklands, and west to Heuston Station.

I just assumed Docklands meant the station, so I might be wrong on that.:o

schemingbohemia

quagmired wrote: »

Hi all - thanks for your support. No update yet but I'll contact them again today. The most important thing is reporting the theft to the gardai and checking out CCTV footage etc.
As I mentioned in the OP I do accept responsibility for not returning the bike. Locking it to another bike didn't deny anyone use of anything, both stations on merrion sq were full to the gills with 4 or 5 people waiting round for free spots. Still full at lunchtime.

If DB aren't able to provide some form of effective re-balancing then they should let us keep the bikes a bit longer. If there's no station on that side of the city to return the bike, surely we should have more than 15 minutes extra to return it?

Anyway I'm not looking to get off scott-free I've asked DB for some leniency, perhaps a reduction in the fine. I didn't steal the bike, I'm victim of a theft, just seems crazy that I could end up spending 100s on the DB scheme when walking would have been quicker!

I didn't see much support from anyone there. You do know that repeating the same action time and time again and expecting a different outcome is a sign of madness?

That's what you've been doing, racking up "fines" as you call them for keeping the bike longer than 30 minutes because you can't be bothered finding an empty space and then dumping the bike and whinging that you're being fined because it was stolen?

I think the €150 charge should be significantly higher myself. I would think (and hope) that you have no chance of a reduction in the charge.

BostonB

You could buy a smart phone and use the bike droid apps for the cost of these charges.