"Man up"

yawha

Inspired by a comment in another thread.

Is it ever acceptable to tell someone to "man up"? Why/why not?

I think that in general, its use, and the attitudes surrounding its use, perpetuates the enforcement of the stereotypical male gender role, and all the expectations and connotations that go with that.

helimachoptor

OF course... however you are right its too often used in a violent way..
I man up by cycling that extra 10 or 15K through the pain barrier etc

MadsL

I prefer "drink some concrete and harden the fck up!".

Smcgie

Anyone wearing skinny jeans should be hit with a wet fish and told to man up.

Renn

riveratom

yawha wrote: »

I think that in general, its use, and the attitudes surrounding its use, perpetuates the enforcement of the stereotypical male gender role, and all the expectations and connotations that go with that.

Is this a girl's realllly long-winded way of saying that men should be men?

If you're not a girl, I'm sorry

opinion guy

yawha wrote: »

Inspired by a comment in another thread.

Is it ever acceptable to tell someone to "man up"? Why/why not?

I think that in general, its use, and the attitudes surrounding its use, perpetuates the enforcement of the stereotypical male gender role, and all the expectations and connotations that go with that.

I don't mind that too much.

I greatly dislike the more crude version.....grow a pair of balls

py2006

I don't like the way the phrase is thrown at men if they have a complaint or feel aggrieved by something or indeed try to talk about an abusive situation.

Dravokivich

I've only ever used it and seen it used as a joke, with the intent clearly understood as that.

entropi

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've only ever used it and seen it used as a joke, with the intent clearly understood as that.

This.

I would only use it while there'd be some of us having the craic. There would be no element to it, other than in a joking manner that we'd all find funny.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've only ever used it and seen it used as a joke, with the intent clearly understood as that.

I have to admit I've used it seriously. It was self-directed though, Goddamn Marley and Me.

Maguined

I have used it both jokingly and seriously.

It's use like all language depends on the context.

When friends are being overly negative and defeatist I have told them to man up just as if my friends are being overly aggressive or nervous I have told them to calm down.

CJ_

Someone said it to be before, because I didn't want to drink!! Fcuk off! :mad:

JamJamJamJam

I guess it could be okay if you mean something like "Grow up, be mature - like an adult man". I don't think it's fair to use it in the context of a person being anxious, cautious, emotional, even fashionable... The whole "be manly, don't be a little girl" idea probably plays a part in depression in a lot of men, when they feel they can't express their concerns or emotions. Sure it can be used in a lighthearted context but... what yawha said :P

ongarboy

Agreed, it really is (or should be) only used in light hearted situations in the same vain as (don't be a big girl's blouse). eg if you screamed when you saw a spider sort of situation.

It would be inappropriate to say it to someone breaking down in tears over some serious anxiety or stressful encounter they are going through.

cade

yawha wrote: »

Is it ever acceptable to tell someone to "man up"? Why/why not?

I don't like it and would never use it myself though I could say the same about myself and a number of other ridiculous phrases. My friends girlfriend and all her friends use it amongst themselves while referrring to each other as 'woman', so the phrase becomes "man up, woman". Silly phrases like this are excuses for people who won't learn to express themselves using a wider vocabulary.

yawha wrote: »

I think that in general, its use, and the attitudes surrounding its use, perpetuates the enforcement of the stereotypical male gender role, and all the expectations and connotations that go with that.

Agreed. On a slightly related note, I overheard a middle age woman speaking a few weeks ago who was recounting a night when a man threatened her with a broken bottle, according to her she stood firm and told the man "if you're going to threaten me with that then you better be man enough to use it". I really hate this whole mentality that to become an adult male, a Man, you must have within you the inherent ability to instigate violence.

I encountered it also when I was in my teens working in a bar and a late twenties barman was trying to get me to start smoking. He offered, I declined, he offered again along with the phrase "go on, be a man".

I'd much prefer that instead of being a Man or Woman people instead conform to the idea of being an Adult, with the connotations that the individual is level headed, has the ability to raise a child properly should they so choose, takes responsibility for their own actions and their consequences.

Maguined

cade wrote: »

Agreed. On a slightly related note, I overheard a middle age woman speaking a few weeks ago who was recounting a night when a man threatened her with a broken bottle, according to her she stood firm and told the man "if you're going to threaten me with that then you better be man enough to use it". I really hate this whole mentality that to become an adult male, a Man, you must have within you the inherent ability to instigate violence.

I don't see this as having the inherent ability to instigate violence more of having the courage of your convictions. Don't threaten to do something without having the conviction to follow through and this is repeated in other common sayings:

Put your money where your mouth it.
You talk the talk but do you walk the walk.
His bark is worse than his bite.

Misty Chaos

I hate that bloody phrase!

I also dislike the fact that people use it to shut down an argument where it's clear they are in the wrong. ' Grow up, be a man! ' ' Are you a man or a mouse!? '

To me, it equates to suppressing your true feelings and desires and becoming emotionless all the for the sake of conforming to some stereotype. That sounds like a miserable existence to me so I don't buy it.

Don't get me wrong - we should all grow up - I don't believe in growing old - something that I believe the whole pressure on males to ' be a man ' only exasperates.

Also don't like the fact that it's associated with violence either.

Just look at my current signature for example - not very ' manly ' at all ( I play the 2 characters in video games I own. ) I'm actually a bit paranoid at times on enabling it outside of the fighting games forum in case some fool gives me abuse it for it ( though then again, I can ignore it and report them. ) Hell, even my username isn't very manly at all either!

Those 2 things don't make me any less male, just different and I like that, personally.

DaveNoCheese

Master of Nothing wrote: »

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've only ever used it and seen it used as a joke, with the intent clearly understood as that.

This.

I would only use it while there'd be some of us having the craic. There would be no element to it, other than in a joking manner that we'd all find funny.

The above two examples. Have only ever used it or heard it been used in a jokingly manner and have no issue with it or the other versions, e.g. 'grow a pair' and 'will your balls ever drop?'.

In my opinion all are fine once in a group of friends or as a joke and if ye don't agree, then man up and deal with it :pac:

Maguined

Misty Chaos wrote: »

Also don't like the fact that it's associated with violence either.

What associates it with violence more so than any other phrase could be used in a violent context?

iptba

Not sure if it was the same thing or not, but a male friend posted that his dad had died on Facebook recently and then two people (I know) posted "be strong". I didn't find that that supportive: it seemed to be basically telling him "don't be weak". He hadn't even been venting - he simply posted a link to the death notice.

ETA: I found the other parts of their (very brief) messages supportive.

Panthro

iptba wrote: »

Not sure if it was the same thing or not, but a male friend posted that his dad had died on Facebook recently and then two people (I know) posted "be strong". I didn't find that that supportive: it seemed to be basically telling him "don't be weak". He hadn't even been venting - he simply posted a link to the death notice.

If a male/female friend of mine wrote "be strong" in the circumstances you refer to, I'd take it as it meant to be taken, someone trying to be supportive.
I genuinely don't see how it could be construed as "don't be weak".

iptba

Panthro wrote: »

If a male/female friend of mine wrote "be strong" in the circumstances you refer to, I'd take it as it meant to be taken, someone trying to be supportive.

Yes, I would see it as a sign of somebody trying to be supportive (ETA: i.e. the whole message and making the effort to comment, not this bit necessarily)

Panthro wrote: »

I genuinely don't see how it could be construed as "don't be weak".

So you can't see how "be strong" be construed as "don't be weak", fair enough, but I think it could be as they're pretty synonymous. I think somebody should be allowed be as upset as they want to be if somebody dies. I don't think a man should be afraid of crying (say) in such a circumstance, but I think men can feel afraid to cry and can pass this feeling on to others. The pressure not to cry comes from somewhere. And once it's out there, it's probably best to be extra careful with the words one chooses (i.e. even if it was never the intention to pass on such an attitude).

People can try to be helpful, but it doesn't mean they do it well. I think some people try to toughen boys/males for their own good (i.e. it's a tough world out there): whether it's the right thing to do, is another question.

Elvis_Presley

Sorry, had to be posted!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

Panthro

iptba wrote: »

I didn't find that that supportive: it seemed to be basically telling him "don't be weak".

iptba wrote: »

Yes, I would see it as a sign of somebody trying to be supportive.

iptba wrote: »

ETA: just to clarify: I accept they were trying to being supportive,

iptba wrote: »

each had said something and then said "be strong" which I thought was unnecessary.

So just to clarify, you didn't find them to be supportive when they wrote "be strong" you feel they were basically telling him "don't be weak".
Yet, at the same time, you accept that they were trying to be supportive when they wrote "be strong".
But at the same time, you feel that their use of "be strong" was in this instance, unnecessary?

Riiiiight...Confused? I know I am.

iptba

Panthro wrote: »

So just to clarify, you didn't find them to be supportive when they wrote "be strong" you feel they were basically telling him "don't be weak".
Yet, at the same time, you accept that they were trying to be supportive when they wrote "be strong".
But at the same time, you feel that their use of "be strong" was in this instance, unnecessary?

Riiiiight...Confused? I know I am.

Yes, you are right that I probably should have used different adjectives to express what I was trying to say. I might go back and edit it now (ETA: Ok, I didn't want to edit too much to break the flow - I just changed the bit I added on to the first message).

My point was that while I felt they were commiserating with the person on the death by writing, and in the first part of the message, I thought the "be strong" bit was unnecessary (ETA: And not necessarily supportive).

There is pressure on men not to cry, I believe. I believe men should be as free to be upset as they want to be. Such words, whether intentional or otherwise, might communicate pressure not to cry and be upset, or remind the bereaved person of this pressure.

Basically, I am trying to bring up the issue of pressure on men not to be upset and cry because of a bereavement, or other distressing circumstance. Whether this is the best example, perhaps not.

opinion guy

iptba wrote: »

There is pressure on men not to cry, I believe. I believe men should be as free to be upset as they want to be. Such words, whether intentional or otherwise, might communicate pressure not to cry and be upset, or remind the bereaved person of this pressure.

It actually bothers me when people say this. I rarely cry. Not because I can't or won't express my emotions - I do that plenty. I physically simply don't like crying. Its messy puffy, runny, unpleasantness. No thanks

Panthro

iptba wrote: »

My point was that while I felt they were commiserating with the person on the death by writing, and in the first part of the message, I thought the "be strong" bit was unnecessary.

Well then, What was written in the first part of their message then?
Because all I have to go by so far is that there was a death of a loved one, and friends of a person close to the deceased used the term "be strong" at some point in a message, a term which to my mind anyways, can only be viewed as an expression of support during a difficult time.

Panthro

iptba wrote: »

Basically, I am trying to bring up the issue of pressure on men not to be upset and cry because of a bereavement, or other distressing circumstance. Whether this is the best example, perhaps not.

If that's the case, it's a different subject to this thread.

ongarboy

iptba wrote: »

Yes, you are right that I probably should have used different adjectives to express what I was trying to say. I might go back and edit it now.

My point was that while I felt they were commiserating with the person on the death by writing, and in the first part of the message, I thought the "be strong" bit was unnecessary.

There is pressure on men not to cry, I believe. I believe men should be as free to be upset as they want to be. Such words, whether intentional or otherwise, might communicate pressure not to cry and be upset, or remind the bereaved person of this pressure.

No, I wouldn't take "be strong" to mean "don't be weak" either. Saying be strong means you hope they have the strength to cope and/or overcome their burden. Strength can actually mean having the courage to let it all out (either through openly grieving, crying etc) or having the courage to seek the help of others. It doen't mean keep a stoic Victorian stiff upper lip and surpress all emotions.

I think it's dangerous trying to take words too literally otherwise one could take offence in practically any word out there. Likewise with using the phrase "man up" or "be a man". They're just phrases, if the context and tone of when and how they are used is meant to be derogatory or hurtful, then that's the genuine problem not the words themselves.

iptba

Panthro wrote: »

Well then, What was written in the first part of their message then?
Because all I have to go by so far is that there was a death of a loved one, and friends of a person close to the deceased used the term "be strong" at some point in a message, a term which to my mind anyways, can only be viewed as an expression of support during a difficult time.

I don't want to copy what they said and intentify anyone.

I have tried to explain why I think "be strong" may be an example of men being discouraged from crying and being upset. You clearly disagree. I think that men feel pressure not to cry or be upset. They pick it up from somewhere. So, even if one's intention is not to communicate such a thing, I think being sensitive with words is useful.