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8200s and 2700s up for sale

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    #32
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    end of the road wrote: »
    the 2700s and 8200s have been removed from that website, wonder are they bound for the cutting torch?

    Maybe they've found a buyer :)


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    #33
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    I reckon they have been sold. Be interesting to see who took them.

    Wonder if the gauge can be altered? For Iberia or South American or even India/Pak?

    Victoria Railways or Translink?


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    #34
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Brazil could probably taken them almost as is if loading gauge was workable and signalling equipment fitted - 1600mm track gauge there. Parts of Aus too but there's a lot of standardisation to 1435mm going on there.

    For me the Irish operators are just too damn small because it's hard for them to persuade a manufacturer to keep a line going over a period of time. If NI and the Republic had forced NIR and IE to come up with an ongoing co-operation in procurement maybe NIR would be sending 22Ks down when Enterprise broke and IE would be using C4Ks rather than end-door 22Ks for commuter services. On the other hand I suppose we could have had DDs on the Dublin-Cork with the 201s breaking down every five minutes under HEP load.


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    #35
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Millem wrote: »
    Maybe they've found a buyer

    maybe for the 2700s anyway, anyone know if their started regularly? of course they should have new coupling systems fitted and be doing the commuter runs instead of 22000s but as they went overkill on them for supposed services they were never going to implament i suppose its best to get them doing some work as their newer rather them ending up in storage/awaiting the cutting torch.
    can't imagine anyone buying the 8200s, they would probably have to have all new equipment fitted as it seems parts can't be got for them now? oh god i know i'm wasting my time but still its ridiculous the way irish rail have behaved with rolling stock, i suppose the management or whoever was in charge of such ridiculous decisians will get a pay rise? excluding dick fern of course who most lightly once he retires is off back to the uk with his pension, after all i doubt he will stay in ireland? maybe he will?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #36
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Here's something that could be done with some of the 2700s but there's more chance of CIE putting a bus on the Moon.

    19-o-11.jpg
    Express Parcels DMU (1987) at Liverpool Lime Street
    Copyright © Malcolm Smith 2002


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    #37
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Here's something that could be done with some of the 2700s but there's more chance of CIE putting a bus on the Moon.

    19-o-11.jpg
    Express Parcels DMU (1987) at Liverpool Lime Street
    Copyright © Malcolm Smith 2002
    GLS and An Post can do the job a lot faster and cheaper than Irish Rail/CIE ever did when they did offer parcel delivery services


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    #38
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    GLS and An Post can do the job a lot faster and cheaper than Irish Rail/CIE ever did when they did offer parcel delivery services

    Nonsense. Anyway, I wasn't suggesting CIE/IE do it - they are beyond salvation. But if somebody was of a mind to introduce such a service there would be dozens of obstacles put in their way and the units would be scrapped - surprised that they haven't been already.


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    #39
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Nonsense. Anyway, I wasn't suggesting CIE/IE do it - they are beyond salvation. But if somebody was of a mind to introduce such a service there would be dozens of obstacles put in their way and the units would be scrapped - surprised that they haven't been already.
    come on jd, its the same excuse from foggy and others to not bother trying anything new on the railway.
    such and such can do it faster and cheeper, aka they can do it via road so no need for the railways which if they got proper investment and a government and state run operator who were interested actually it could be done faster via rail, if irish rail were gone and i had the money i'd certainly give such a service a go.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #40
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    what such a service would lack would be flexibility and what it would need are parcels depots at Stations. I can't see it succeeding if the parcels had to be transferred to and from depots at each end of the train run.


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    #41
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    corktina wrote: »
    what such a service would lack would be flexibility and what it would need are parcels depots at Stations. I can't see it succeeding if the parcels had to be transferred to and from depots at each end of the train run.

    That's CIE type thinking I'm afraid - if there was a will there would be a way. What happened to the tender that they put out for contractors to provide a Fastrack service Dublin/Cork - gone the same way as the two (!) tenders put out for retro-fitting the 22000s with SDO. What a company....


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    #42
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    That's CIE type thinking I'm afraid - if there was a will there would be a way. What happened to the tender that they put out for contractors to provide a Fastrack service Dublin/Cork - gone the same way as the two (!) tenders put out for retro-fitting the 22000s with SDO. What a company....

    theres a world of difference between a fasttrack type service utilising those empty driving trailers and a dedicated parcels unit in fairness....


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    #43
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    That's CIE type thinking I'm afraid - if there was a will there would be a way. What happened to the tender that they put out for contractors to provide a Fastrack service Dublin/Cork - gone the same way as the two (!) tenders put out for retro-fitting the 22000s with SDO. What a company....

    Instead of just harping on about how Irish Rail have done this and that to block your beloved parcel service why not enlighten us as to how you think it should or could be done? Remember it has got to meet all the relevent health and safety rules as well as satisfying the unions and also be cheaper than the competition!


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    #44
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    corktina wrote: »
    theres a world of difference between a fasttrack type service utilising those empty driving trailers and a dedicated parcels unit in fairness....

    Obviously and I wasn't linking the two, but rather I was highlighting CIE/IE's lethargy when it comes to doing anything. Years ago I was at a meeting in Heuston where a senior executive explained to me that railway preservation (i.e.Choo Choos) wasn't a high priority for them...sadly neither was anything else save waiting for the golden handshake, lump etc. As far as I can see most CIE/IE employees are car drivers themselves and have little affinity with the traveling public, and there's no incentive for them to do anything other than clock in their hours and mark time until retirement.


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    #45
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Instead of just harping on about how Irish Rail have done this and that to block your beloved parcel service why not enlighten us as to how you think it should or could be done? Remember it has got to meet all the relevent health and safety rules as well as satisfying the unions and also be cheaper than the competition!

    It's a difficult concept I know but here's the basics. You (IE or a private operator) get hold of through lease/purchase a pair of 2700 railcars, make sure they are fit to operate, insured etc. Fill them up with diesel, properly market the new service and wait for the customers to roll in....I'm not in the humour to explain a full business plan to you but surely even somebody as anti-rail as you can get the idea?

    Dublin/Cork followed by Dublin/Belfast would be worth a lash but if I were getting into the business I would start off by using space on the existing MkIV and De Deitrich trains. If I still lived in Dublin I would have done something already but trapped down here in DG it's too hard to organise. Anyway, I'm off to watch Lord of the Rings and escape....Evening all! :D


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    #46
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    It's a difficult concept I know but here's the basics. You (IE or a private operator) get hold of through lease/purchase a pair of 2700 railcars, make sure they are fit to operate, insured etc. Fill them up with diesel, properly market the new service and wait for the customers to roll in....I'm not in the humour to explain a full business plan to you but surely even somebody as anti-rail as you can get the idea?

    Dublin/Cork followed by Dublin/Belfast would be worth a lash but if I were getting into the business I would start off by using space on the existing MkIV and De Deitrich trains. If I still lived in Dublin I would have done something already but trapped down here in DG it's too hard to organise. Anyway, I'm off to watch Lord of the Rings and escape....Evening all! :D
    OK here is the nut-cracker for the balls of your idea, please collect several parcels from my address in Carlow and deliver them around the country while collecting even more parcels as companies like DHL do daily, now tell us how are you going to get your trains out the road to my address? how are you going to keep to any schedule when you have to stop every few miles and deliver parcels? and most importantly how are you going to keep costs to a minimum when you have to pay over the going rate for train staff and all that goes with operating a train as well as courier company services for collections and deliveries?

    DHL, GLS etc only pay once for collecting and delivering items because it is collected and sorted by themselves then delivered by them but you propose paying couriers to collect in vans then you deliver to a station by train where another courier comes to collect and deliver to the addressee, you propose getting customers to pay for double handling and triple handling of their own parcels which makes delayed, damaged, stolen and lost parcels much more probable!


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    #47
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    thats more or less what I said... you would need a depot at whatever stations you are serving and a delivery network of your own at each.

    Thats not to say it wouldn't work, using a train to do the main trunking, but you would need to do everything in-house like the couriers do and you would have to do it as cheap as they do.

    IE could do it , on a fastrack type basis, if they had the will, with customers doing there own collection and delivery and using existing premises and spare staff capacity (which I am SURE exists). I'm not sure private enterprise could do it though.


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    #48
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    City centre deliveries would be fine. The IFSC to Central Belfast might work. They could convert one carragie into a very nice plush business class coach so the DMUs could deliver parcels between the cities and allow people to do business on the way.

    Can't see enough brain cells in CIE to imagine something like this. Too much like marketing.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A few months ago IE tendered for disposal of spares for 201, 8200 and 2700. I wasn't interested as they were in 3 big lots!


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    #50
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    corktina wrote: »
    thats more or less what I said... you would need a depot at whatever stations you are serving and a delivery network of your own at each.

    Thats not to say it wouldn't work, using a train to do the main trunking, but you would need to do everything in-house like the couriers do and you would have to do it as cheap as they do.

    IE could do it , on a fastrack type basis, if they had the will, with customers doing there own collection and delivery and using existing premises and spare staff capacity (which I am SURE exists). I'm not sure private enterprise could do it though.
    Sounds like the way to do it except that it would cost the same for the Irish Rail part of the journey from rail depot to rail depot as it would to have a professional courier business like DHL or GLS or even An Post deliver the items from door to door but with Irish rail customers would have added costs of dropping off and collecting from rail depots.


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