History & Heritage should be split-up?

Fenian Army

Seanchai wrote: »

Of course, because your crowd would never be political when it comes to heritage? That massive Georgian (really Greco-Roman, but let's not upset all the British nationalists) house on Inis Mór carried no political connotations with it when it was built? It just fitted right in with the stone cottages of the natives?

This eternal campaign from pro-British posters to portray things British as being apolitical and merely "heritage" is, aside from utterly ahistorical, tiresome. There has been no greater political force in Irish history in the past 400 years than the British. Whether it's their houses (on Irish land which they robbed), their language or their laws - their entire system was imposed upon this society in what impartial observers would consider to be a military and political revolution of the established, native Irish power structure in Ireland.

Claiming your British heritage is "not political" is patently ahistorical, politically motivated nonsense of the highest order.

Yes, and the idea behind a separate forum is to exclude discussion about the reality you mention and to sanitise the reality of the day - to distort history.

Rather than to exclude politics, the motivation behind the mooted schism is political itself. They want to discuss things from a single political viewpoint - a "British friendly" one.

Judgement Day

Seanchai yourself and Fenian Army are reinforcing the reasons that I think having the Forum split would be a good thing as those of us who wish to discuss 'Heritage' issues have nowhere to discuss them that the thread doesn't go off in a tangent or get pushed off the front page by the latest particular row. I don't see what the problem is. It's hard enough to whip up support for 'Heritage' without turning people away from the Forum because of politics.

telekon

Seanchai wrote: »

Of course, because your crowd would never be political when it comes to heritage? That massive Georgian (really Greco-Roman, but let's not upset all the British nationalists) house on Inis Mór carried no political connotations with it when it was built? It just fitted right in with the stone cottages of the natives?

This eternal campaign from pro-British posters to portray things British as being apolitical and merely "heritage" is, aside from utterly ahistorical, tiresome. There has been no greater political force in Irish history in the past 400 years than the British. Whether it's their houses (on Irish land which they robbed), their language or their laws - their entire system was imposed upon this society in what impartial observers would consider to be a military and political revolution of the established, native Irish power structure in Ireland.

Claiming your British heritage is "not political" is patently ahistorical, politically motivated nonsense of the highest order.

My crowd? You mean Irish people right?

Just because I admire the architectural merits of Georgian buildings does not make me pro-British. I am 100% Irish, I am sure you are shocked to hear that, right?

I suppose you resent the fact I am not a twisted and bitter old bigot that likes nothing more than spouting the same old BORING sh*te.

A DEDICATED HERITAGE THREAD PLEASE.

Judgement Day

Fenian Army wrote: »

Yes, and the idea behind a separate forum is to exclude discussion about the reality you mention and to sanitise the reality of the day - to distort history.

Rather than to exclude politics, the motivation behind the mooted schism is political itself. They want to discuss things from a single political viewpoint - a "British friendly" one.

But if this is the case and all things 'British' in Ireland are bad then why do you have a problem with us shunting them away where the rest of you don't have to put up with our fetish for everything British? :rolleyes:

Fenian Army

Judgement Day wrote: »

Seanchai yourself and Fenian Army are reinforcing the reasons that I think having the Forum split would be a good thing as those of us who wish to discuss 'Heritage' issues have nowhere to discuss them that the thread doesn't go off in a tangent or get pushed off the front page by the latest particular row. I don't see what the problem is. It's hard enough to whip up support for 'Heritage' without turning people away from the Forum because of politics.

While you fawn over the "British heritage" you don't want people pointing out the reality of the "big houses" and what not - just be honest. You only want discussion of context if it fits in neatly with your political viewpoint to such a degree that you want a separate forum to do so, with the protection of a charter!

I've political convictions but I'd never be that arrogant - there should be room for fair discussion but given that the moderation on this forum already tilts things one direction (including the outright changing and censorship of threads to promote an agenda) I can imagine what you're forum would be like.

Fenian Army

Judgement Day wrote: »

But if this is the case and all things 'British' in Ireland are bad then why do you have a problem with us shunting away where the rest of you don't have to put up with our fetish for everything British? :rolleyes:

That post is more revealing than you intended I think, mask is slipping.

Seanchai

Judgement Day wrote: »

Seanchai - The Irish language username and the location Béal Feirste, Éire all indicate, to me anyway, someone with an agenda, rather than a gaelic language enthusiast.

Last I looked, at a 1537 source, it was called the "Irish Language" in the English language by the English. I'd suggest, for starters, that people who refer to Irish in English as the "Gaelic language" have the political agenda here, and a deeply revisionist political agenda at that.

And, let me get this straight, if I live in Béal Feirste, Éire I should change that to Belfast, Ireland just to satisfy anti-Irish anglophones such as yourself? Because the anglicised version is "not political" but the Irish version is "political"? Hello?

You're exposing more layers of your personal prejudices with this can of worms than you could imagine.

Judgement Day wrote: »

As far as I know Seanchai means a storyteller - okay?

Yes, it does. And are we, the Irish, not allowed recount stories - or can we only have stories about Ireland which your side have written down? So if I close this seemingly political username down and reopen it under the name 'Storyteller' that would make you feel more comfortable? Would that new username, a mere translation of the Irish into the Queen's English, not be "political"?

Seanchai

Fenian Army wrote: »

Yes, and the idea behind a separate forum is to exclude discussion about the reality you mention and to sanitise the reality of the day - to distort history.

Rather than to exclude politics, the motivation behind the mooted schism is political itself. They want to discuss things from a single political viewpoint - a "British friendly" one.

This, all of it. Impeccably well summarised.

Seanchai

telekon wrote: »

Just because I admire the architectural merits of Georgian buildings does not make me pro-British.

Judging by the posts you've been thanking, many of which express hatred for Irish Ireland, it's more than British Georgian buildings you like....

telekon wrote: »

I suppose you resent the fact I am not a twisted and bitter old bigot that likes nothing more than spouting the same old BORING sh*te.

Really, don't flatter yourself. I was thinking quite the opposite: it's just that the bigotry you like is against the Irish and the Irish tradition, and your prejudices favour the British tradition. This does not, unsurprisingly, make you free from bigotry. It just makes your bigotry different. This is not rocket science.

telekon wrote: »

A DEDICATED HERITAGE THREAD PLEASE.

When you're using caps and bolding, I'd have to worry about your argument (and more). How about we have a "dedicated heritage thread" when we can find British heritage in Ireland that was built without any political/colonial connotations? Until then, their built heritage is just another weapon in Britain's military, political and cultural conquest of Ireland.

Judgement Day

Seanchai - You're right in that I've no great love for the Irish language having suffered it for three years in school but I've no problem with it except for the waste of time, money etc. involved in its promotion.

Where you get the idea that I'm only interested in British heritage is beyond me - point me to a single such post anywhere on Boards.ie and I'll be amazed. I believe in looking after our 'collective' heritage and that it's pure and simple. I have, on a number of occasions, raised the issue of the neglect of certain 1798 memorials with local county councillors and I wonder if you have ever done the same for a British war memorial or "Big" house. Don't bother replying - I'm off to watch some rugby - a good garrison game of course!

Fenian Army

Seanchai wrote: »

When you're using caps and bolding, I'd have to worry about your argument (and more). How about we have a "dedicated heritage thread" when we can find British heritage in Ireland that was built without any political/colonial connotations? Until then, their built heritage is just another weapon in Britain's military, political and cultural conquest of Ireland.

This is the essential point that the mods must appreciate - to set up a forum where this is conveniently airbrushed out serves no historical interest, but merely a political one.

jonniebgood1

Seanchai wrote: »

I think if this forum has a thread lauding British influence on Ireland, it should not rename a thread which discusses British atrocities in Ireland from "British atrocities in Ireland" to "Atrocities in Ireland". Good things about the British in Ireland = acceptable; Bad things = not acceptable. Moderator Dubhtach can take credit for that abysmal "decision".

The sheer anti-Irish bigotry underpinning moderator decisions in this forum is extraordinary. In this forum, political correctness triumphs over historical acknowledgement of Irish suffering at the hands of the British colonial war machine every time.

And, yes, I fully appreciate that the moderators in question really do prefer to be accused of anti-Irish bigotry than being told they are "anti-British" for allowing Irish suffering at the hands of the British to be discussed here.

The politically motivated shít that passes as "history" here is worthy of John Paul McCarthy in that unionist rag, the Sunday Independent.

As such, the entire Boards.ie website would be better if this forum closed down, or at least renamed itself as the British history forum in Ireland, or some such thing. We, the Irish who reject this "We must not offend the British" sanitising of the British occupation of our country, are not welcome in this supposedly "History" forum.

Take a ban from this forum Seanchai and if you intend to come back you need to cop yourself on. Maybe I should be be more PC in moderating but this type of sh1te has no place on this forum. This page is for discussing history and/or heritage and all opinions are welcomed. You seem to misunderstand history and avoid all proper analysis replacing this with a one track mantra which has no place here, there are other forums where you can do that and you might suit them better. The choice is yours.

Other users please stick to the topic.

moderator.

pedroeibar1

This is a photo of a ‘magic lantern’ slide by a photographer named ‘Mayne’. It is Cork, possibly part of the Custom House? Looking at Google maps there are some nasty sheds and a tacky sign there now. It’s a missing part of Cork Heritage – anyone know what it was and what happened to it?
My first image imbed, excuse if it does not work

Cork Custom Hse by Pedro Eibar, on Flickr

tac foley

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

This is a photo of a ‘magic lantern’ slide by a photographer named ‘Mayne’. It is Cork, possibly part of the Custom House? Looking at Google maps there are some nasty sheds and a tacky sign there now. It’s a missing part of Cork Heritage – anyone know what it was and what happened to it?
My first image imbed, excuse if it does not work

Cork Custom Hse by Pedro Eibar, on Flickr

PE - many thanks for posting that beautiful image of old Cork. My grandfather was a clerk in the old Cork Steam Packet Co. and if he were still around I'd be that it would ring all kinds of bells. I'm very interested, as you are, in the older images of Cork - of any kind - but especially those that like this one show the astonishing quality of early photography. I'm betting that this image dates from between 1860 and 1870 or so.

Do you have any more? Or, more to the point, any pointers to more books like 'Cork then and now'? I've just pre-ordered my copy from Irish Books Direct, via a VERY helpful young lady.

Best

tac

pedroeibar1

tac foley wrote: »

Do you have any more? Or, more to the point, any pointers to more books like 'Cork then and now'?

I have a few more images, will get them up soon. Probably best to start a separate thread (a seminal thread for ‘Heritage’? )
A great book on Cork is ‘Old World Colony’ by David Dickson. Covers the period 1630-1830. Expensive, but worth it, crammed with figures, statistics and notes. One to dip into rather than read.
Tucky is another, about the same time period, his ‘The City and County of Cork Remembered’ was published late 1840s and is built on old newspaper extracts; quite a few excerpts to be found online, some via this interesting site http://corkgen.org/publicgenealogy/cork/potpourri/corkancestors.com/index.htm

I will be reunited with my books in a few weeks and will look to see what I have - there is one on Cork Slang and another on Cork stories/characters.

The Cork Steam Packet company was owned by the Leycester/Leicester family. The 1911 Census shows Joseph William Leicester, at his home in Cork, age 56, describing his occupation as “magistrate, landlord and shareholder.” One of the more substantial (inherited) family investment holdings was in the Cork Steam Packet Company, owners of several ships and passenger vessels successively named “Innisfallen” that were known to several generations of Irish emigrants. Both First and Second World Wars claimed an ‘Inisfallen’. The CSPC shipping line was eventually to become part of B & I Line, before being nationalised and eventually becoming part of Irish Ferries. There is a page on B&I here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_Irish_Steam_Packet_Company