History & Heritage should be split-up?

Judgement Day

While there's always going to be a certain overlap I feel that Heritage items are lost in the general History & Heritage forum and would like to see them split-up. There's an awful of heritage things that need discussing on Boards as there's no other discussion forum online - to my knowledge - as I have discovered in recent days when trying to find information on boat preservation.

Anybody else think that's it's worth looking to have Heritage in a distinctive sub-forum? I feel sure that there could be a lot more threads running in such a forum.

Cork boy 55

Judgement Day wrote: »

While there's always going to be a certain overlap I feel that Heritage items are lost in the general History & Heritage forum and would like to see them split-up. There's an awful of heritage things that need discussing on Boards as there's no other discussion forum online - to my knowledge - as I have discovered in recent days when trying to find information on boat preservation.

Anybody else think that's it's worth looking to have Heritage in a distinctive sub-forum? I feel sure that there could be a lot more threads running in such a forum.

:eek:

Some examples please JD :pac:

nuac

Yes, might be a good idea

Judgement Day

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

:eek:

Some examples please JD :pac:

Well, the sort of thing I mean is heritage type items such as preservation of old buildings, transport items, canals etc.etc.. which are currently lumped in with threads discussing 'Invasion myth created by Churchill in 1940?' and politically motivated threads such as 'The destruction of Irelands built heritage due to Nationalism/Republicanism' ; 'Why were the French so ineffective in 1940 etc.etc. It is off-putting to be mixing up two separate items such as 'heritage' and history - those of us concerned with 'heritage' need somewhere to discuss, and better still, stir things up, otherwise there will soon be little left in Ireland except 'history' and OPW audio/visual displays.

gobnaitolunacy

if it aint broke don't fix it.

Judgement Day

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

if it aint broke don't fix it.

That's just my point, in my opinion it is broke hence the small amount of posting on heritage items.

Judgement Day

And like the like of this provocative thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056737371 started to day does not rest easily alongside threads about preserving our legacy of "Big Houses" etc.etc. - in short it makes the History & Heritage forum a place full of hostility between different posters.

jonniebgood1

On the face of it I can see benefit in the suggestion JD. I always find the heritage threads get somewhat lost at times as they are in the minority on the forum.
Would a sub-forum for heritage increase participation or would it lower the traffic volume on heritage related topics?

I would suggest that we will see from replies in this thread whether there is support for a seperate forum for this. If you think there is a thread would need to be started in the 'forum requests' forum and people who support the idea add their numbers to the request. If it gets at least 18 supporters there then it is considered by admins as possible.

P. Breathnach

I'd be in favour of a separate heritage forum (as a subforum in this section).

corktina

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well, the sort of thing I mean is heritage type items such as preservation of old buildings, transport items, canals etc.etc.. which are currently lumped in with threads discussing 'Invasion myth created by Churchill in 1940?' and politically motivated threads such as 'The destruction of Irelands built heritage due to Nationalism/Republicanism' ; 'Why were the French so ineffective in 1940 etc.etc. It is off-putting to be mixing up two separate items such as 'heritage' and history - those of us concerned with 'heritage' need somewhere to discuss, and better still, stir things up, otherwise there will soon be little left in Ireland except 'history' and OPW audio/visual displays.

I'm in complete agreement here, I don't bother a lot with this forum as it is so obsessed with the "what the damn British did to us". All well and good if thats what you want, but it aint Heritage (mostly not History either , come to that!)

I would certainly like to see a Heritage Forum covering all aspects as JD says. I would see this taking on the Heritage aspects currently (badly) covered in forums such as Rail and Train Sytems which gets more Trainspottery by the day.

P. Breathnach

corktina wrote: »

... which gets more Trainspottery by the day.

I know it's thread drift, but I can't resist expressing my joy at your terminology.

pedroeibar1

There always is overlap between History and Heritage: some threads are more one than the other, others (as commented on by Corktina /indicated by JBG) end up as neither and are vehicles for an agenda. For example, 'The destruction of Irelands built heritage due to Nationalism/Republicanism' could be History or Heritage, started out well but got buried in political invective. One positive on ‘separation’ is that a ‘Heritage’ mod would be able to infract those who drag politics into it. One issue would be where to draw the borders on Heritage and/or to have sub-forums for e.g. Built H, Marine H, Engineering H, etc.
FWIW I would have no issues with JD’s Heritage boat preservation topic being part of H & H, (e.g. Asgard I or II, lightships, etc.), but the response/comments on it might be more numerous elsewhere.

Fenian Army

Judgement Day wrote: »

And like the like of this provocative thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056737371 started to day does not rest easily alongside threads about preserving our legacy of "Big Houses" etc.etc. - in short it makes the History & Heritage forum a place full of hostility between different posters.

So what you really mean is that there are posters who dont have the same opinions/agenda you do, so you want a separate forum

Gee Bag

Fenian Army wrote: »

So what you really mean is that there are posters who dont have the same opinions/agenda you do, so you want a separate forum

This type of post is the reason why I think there should be a seperate forum for heritage related topics.

Fenian Army

Gee Bag wrote: »

This type of post is the reason why I think there should be a seperate forum for heritage related topics.

Its clear from his language "provocative thread" and his opinions that he wants a closed shop to natter on about how fantastic the "big houses" of the British aristocracy are/were free from differing opinions - the forum has many faults but there doesn't need to be a split.

A sub forum would make little difference anyway(would still be the same people), if a thread title catches peoples attention they will post - unless of course you want different rules, which brings us back to the closed shop.

Judgement Day

Fenian Army wrote: »

Its clear from his language "provocative thread" and his opinions that he wants a closed shop to natter on about how fantastic the "big houses" of the British aristocracy are/were free from differing opinions - the forum has many faults but there doesn't need to be a split.

A sub forum would make little difference anyway(would still be the same people), if a thread title catches peoples attention they will post - unless of course you want different rules, which brings us back to the closed shop.

Get a life would you. I can argue the rights and wrongs of the War of Independence etc. until the cows come home but I'd also like another forum where we can discuss, put forward ideas etc. about our collective heritage without every thread dissolving into this sort of nonsense. I come from a Unionist background - so what - if you trawl some of the 1798 threads you will find posts by me decrying the neglect of nationalist monuments. I have an interest in our collective heritage not just one side of it.

Fenian Army

I think people need to realize that boards is bye and large much too popular for almost any form of specialized discussion to take place without people who know next to nothing (and dont want to learn) clogging up threads - JD I'd suggest setting up an alternate site (easy and cheap[i.e free] to do so) where only people with a genuine interest will be attracted.

I dont think a new forum is needed or would in fact work, you will still get the same stuff happening unless you want draconian moderation.

dubhthach

[Mod]
Fenian Army, Please desist from trying to bait other posters.
[/Mod]

As for the question in general well I can see why it might be brought up, though personally I do think that history tends to go hand in hand with heritage items, for example look at the thread talking about High Crosses, which has tied in somewhat with talk (mostly on my part) of the Southern Uí Néill dynasty.

telekon

dubhthach wrote: »

As for the question in general well I can see why it might be brought up, though personally I do think that history tends to go hand in hand with heritage items, for example look at the thread talking about High Crosses, which has tied in somewhat with talk (mostly on my part) of the Southern Uí Néill dynasty.

My problem is, I am purely interested in the built heritage, which I find is neither here nor there in Art&Architecture / History&Heritage.

Strangely enough, the more interesting threads are the ones I find in the paranormal forum. Go figure.

I echo the sentiments above where I would like to read informative posts about the 'big houses' while not having to read the nonsense and dross that thread hijackers such as our obnoxious republican friend above seems so keen to share with everyone. It happens a lot more than is being alluded to here.

I would merely like if the threads did not descend into some ideological debate when the architecture and history is the one thing that should be discussed.

jonniebgood1

telekon wrote: »

My problem is, I am purely interested in the built heritage, which I find is neither here nor there in Art&Architecture / History&Heritage.

As it happens I used to follow the Architecture forum but it has very little actual Architecture on it, and even less of an historical/ heritage nature.

Threads here on heritage issues can get swamped and moved down the list very quickly. THere have been interesting threads on canals, railways, etc in the past while and I find that they plod along at their own pace until they disappear off the first page. Maybe a lower trafficked page would suit the heritage buffs? Built heritage in particular has an almost infinite possibility.

slowburner

A heritage sub forum makes a lot of sense.

Seanchai

I think if this forum has a thread lauding British influence on Ireland, it should not rename a thread which discusses British atrocities in Ireland from "British atrocities in Ireland" to "Atrocities in Ireland". Good things about the British in Ireland = acceptable; Bad things = not acceptable. Moderator Dubhtach can take credit for that abysmal "decision".

The sheer anti-Irish bigotry underpinning moderator decisions in this forum is extraordinary. In this forum, political correctness triumphs over historical acknowledgement of Irish suffering at the hands of the British colonial war machine every time.

And, yes, I fully appreciate that the moderators in question really do prefer to be accused of anti-Irish bigotry than being told they are "anti-British" for allowing Irish suffering at the hands of the British to be discussed here.

The politically motivated shít that passes as "history" here is worthy of John Paul McCarthy in that unionist rag, the Sunday Independent.

As such, the entire Boards.ie website would be better if this forum closed down, or at least renamed itself as the British history forum in Ireland, or some such thing. We, the Irish who reject this "We must not offend the British" sanitising of the British occupation of our country, are not welcome in this supposedly "History" forum.

Fenian Army

Seanchai wrote: »

I think if this forum has a thread lauding British influence on Ireland, it should not rename a thread which discusses British atrocities in Ireland from "British atrocities in Ireland" to "Atrocities in Ireland". Good things about the British in Ireland = acceptable; Bad things = not acceptable. Moderator Dubhtach can take credit for that abysmal "decision".

The sheer anti-Irish bigotry underpinning moderator decisions in this forum is extraordinary. In this forum, political correctness triumphs over historical acknowledgement of Irish suffering at the hands of the British colonial war machine every time.

And, yes, I fully appreciate that the moderators in question really do prefer to be accused of anti-Irish bigotry than being told they are "anti-British" for allowing Irish suffering at the hands of the British to be discussed here.

The politically motivated shít that passes as "history" here is worthy of John Paul McCarthy in that unionist rag, the Sunday Independent.

As such, the entire Boards.ie website would be better if this forum closed down, or at least renamed itself as the British history forum in Ireland, or some such thing. We, the Irish who reject this "We must not offend the British" sanitising of the British occupation of our country, are not welcome in this supposedly "History" forum.

Well said.


The real shame is that things were not like this under brianthebard.

Judgement Day

Seanchai - it's more utter drivel like you've just posted that is wrecking this forum rather than a pro-British agenda by the Mods. For a start it would be refreshing if people could park their politics before discussing history or anything else on Boards for that matter, and that might include Usernames that don't immediately imply said agenda. I may be from a Unionist background but that does mean that I feel the need to call myself "Spirit of Loughgall" ,"Croppies Lie Down" or some such nonsense and give my address as Kingstown or Queen's County etc.

I come on Boards, in general, to discuss things, raise issues that concern me and pick-up useful information rather than to insult other users. Some people here such as yourself and Fenian Army might like to consider that even your Usernames are hard to deal with for some of us - or perhaps the whiff of cordite created is your intention? :rolleyes:

Seanchai

Judgement Day wrote: »

t's more utter drivel like you've just posted that is wrecking this forum

The drivel is yours. It is a fact that a thread was renamed by a moderator here for fear of offending people with your political sensitivities, while a thread remains which praises the deeds/influences of your British colonial community here. That is a fact.

Judgement Day wrote: »

I may be from a Unionist background.... Some people here such as yourself and Fenian Army might like to consider that even your Usernames are hard to deal with for some of us - or perhaps the whiff of cordite created is your intention? :rolleyes:

Sweet suffering Jesus. So now "Seanchai" is "hard to deal with". Do you even know what it means? Or is it the fact that it's in Irish that galls you and evokes every conceivable anti-Irish prejudice in your soul? Right. I apologise profusely and will try and choose a suitable English language name with which you, and people who share your prejudices politics, agree.

I find your English language name offensive, particularly as it conjures up images of yet more English/British people making judgements about Ireland and the Irish, many of which have resulted in us Irish hanging at the end of a rope, including on the "Croppies Hill" in my village.

telekon

Yet again the uber-Irish patriot folk have derailed another thread. :rolleyes:


I think this has proven our point that a sub-heritage forum is needed to escape the usual political nonsense they inflict. Its so, so tiresome...

Judgement Day

Seanchai - The Irish language username and the location Béal Feirste, Éire all indicate, to me anyway, someone with an agenda, rather than a gaelic language enthusiast. As far as I know Seanchai means a storyteller - okay?

If you checked my profile you would see that the name Judgement Day comes from the Terminator movies which I like and which match my Avatar. As for the location it was chosen to disguise my location which, in hindsight, was pointless as I have made it pretty obvious who I am to anybody wishing to find out.

Fenian Army

Judgement Day wrote: »

Seanchai - it's more utter drivel like you've just posted that is wrecking this forum rather than a pro-British agenda by the Mods. For a start it would be refreshing if people could park their politics before discussing history or anything else on Boards for that matter, and that might include Usernames that don't immediately imply said agenda. I may be from a Unionist background but that does mean that I feel the need to call myself "Spirit of Loughgall" ,"Croppies Lie Down" or some such nonsense and give my address as Kingstown or Queen's County etc.

I come on Boards, in general, to discuss things, raise issues that concern me and pick-up useful information rather than to insult other users. Some people here such as yourself and Fenian Army might like to consider that even your Usernames are hard to deal with for some of us - or perhaps the whiff of cordite created is your intention? :rolleyes:

The fact that you think there is a whiff of cordite around the name "Seanchai" is very telling.

As for my username, it's a football chant.

The fact is that legitimate threads about British imperialism and colonialism are changed in order to satisfy the pro British agenda of some posters - Seanchai gives a perfect example. While at the same time pro British threads are activly encouraged, ones which ocus on the "positives" (if ever there was a time for the rolloyes smiley its when someone says that) of British rule - now its got to the stage where a separate forum is desired to keep the great unwashed away, to banish those who bear news of the uncomfortable reality of British occupation and subjugation.

Judgement Day

A football chant - what team though? Shamrock Rovers or Man Utd - I think not.

Fenian Army

Judgement Day wrote: »

Seanchai - The Irish language username and the location Béal Feirste, Éire all indicate, to me anyway, someone with an agenda, rather than a gaelic language enthusiast. As far as I know Seanchai means a storyteller - okay?

If you checked my profile you would see that the name Judgement Day comes from the Terminator movies which I like and which match my Avatar. As for the location it was chosen to disguise my location which, in hindsight, was pointless as I have made it pretty obvious who I am to anybody wishing to find out.

Kindly try to leave aside your anti Irish prejudices and hostility to the Irish language.

Seanchai

telekon wrote: »

Yet again the uber-Irish patriot folk have derailed another thread. :rolleyes:


I think this has proven our point that a sub-heritage forum is needed to escape the usual political nonsense they inflict. Its so, so tiresome...

Of course, because your crowd would never be political when it comes to heritage? That massive Georgian (really Greco-Roman, but let's not upset all the British nationalists) house on Inis Mór carried no political connotations with it when it was built? It just fitted right in with the stone cottages of the natives?

This eternal campaign from pro-British posters to portray things British as being apolitical and merely "heritage" is, aside from utterly ahistorical, tiresome. There has been no greater political force in Irish history in the past 400 years than the British. Whether it's their houses (on Irish land which they robbed), their language or their laws - their entire system was imposed upon this society in what impartial observers would consider to be a military and political revolution of the established, native Irish power structure in Ireland.

Claiming your British heritage is "not political" is patently ahistorical, politically motivated nonsense of the highest order.