Myrna Nazzour - Miracle of Damascus

the_eman

Hi,

I would like to ask people to take a look at this video. Its quite long but I think you should know what has happened in Damascus and what is still happening.

I have two motives for posting this.

Firstly I of course want to share the faith I have and help more people find faith but that is not the only reason.

When I came across these videos I had faith already so I would like to get the opinions of Atheists on these videos. They are most certainly not Hollywood and can be at times hard to watch but I beg you to give them some time and then send me your feedback. If you don't make it to the very end I will let you know than some secular doctors and scientists were not able to give a medical or scientific reasoning behind her phenomenon. Please don't rule this out straight away, give it some time.


http://www.catholicdigitalstudio.com/miracleofdamascus.htm

-e

MagicMarker

You want us to watch approx 5 hours of youtube videos?

Errrr, na.

King Mob

Provide something more substantive than youtube videos and the same testimony a hundred different scams have used, then maybe we can talk.

the_eman

What? video evidence is not enough? There is also a rigorous Catholic approval process that very few such occurrences actually get approved. This one has been approved and documented. I'm sure you probably don't put much weight behind the Catholic Church's approval process and like you say there are many scams but this one i trust you is not one and one I advise you to give some time. Many people have seen these Miracles first hand.

Rynox45

If any scientist of doctor can't give an explanation, doesn't occam's razor suggest it's not really the case?
Healing can be caused by a placebo effect, just like if a doctor were to give you sugar pills for a headache.

The stigmata is examined fairly thoroughly here: http://garvarn.blogspot.ie/2008/07/holy-crap-or-myrna-nazzour-miracle.html

It seems during the making of a Swedish documentary the wounds didn't appear until the production crew went out shopping and returned to find her wounded.

King Mob

the_eman wrote: »

What? video evidence is not enough? There is also a rigorous Catholic approval process that very few such occurrences actually get approved. This one has been approved and documented. I'm sure you probably don't put much weight behind the Catholic Church's approval process and like you say there are many scams but this one i trust you is not one and one I advise you to give some time. Many people have seen these Miracles forst hand.

No we don't put any weight behind the church's approval process.
And no video evidence is not enough.

How are you excluding the possibility that the so called miracles are not being faked?
How do you know the magic olive oil is actually magic?

How do we tell this is any different to the scams that other people have seen and fell for first hand?

MagicMarker

OP, at least link us the specific video that shows the stigmata occurring and tell us at what time in the video it happens, and I'll watch it, but I'm not trawling through 5 hours of videos.

Mark Hamill

Rynox45 wrote: »

If any scientist of doctor can't give an explanation, doesn't occam's razor suggest it's not really the case?
Healing can be caused by a placebo effect, just like if a doctor were to give you sugar pills for a headache.

The stigmata is examined fairly thoroughly here: http://garvarn.blogspot.ie/2008/07/holy-crap-or-myrna-nazzour-miracle.html

It seems during the making of a Swedish documentary the wounds didn't appear until the production crew went out shopping and returned to find her wounded.

Pretty sure the stigmata is in the wrong place in those pics too. AFAIK, Roman crucifictions had the nails through the wrists and the ankles (one nail, through both the ankles, resulting in the bone being split), rather than the palms of the hands or the tops of the feet.

EDIT: Actually its one nail per ankle, with the ankles on each side of the upright.

18AD

Not to stir (which I enjoy), but what is the relevance of this even if it is true?

What is the significance of a miracle?

pauldla

There's always some ne'er-do-well with a different take on the issue, isn't there? I bet this guy rots in hell. Or burns. Or rots and burns. And in the Ace of Bass room, too.

http://garvarn.blogspot.com/2008/07/holy-crap-or-myrna-nazzour-miracle.html

recedite

the_eman wrote: »

What? video evidence is not enough?

Not when it is produced by "Catholic Digital Studios". Have you seen Avatar? Much better special effects.

Something odd on the first page there, it says whatshername is a Catholic, but the miracle counts as Orthodox because her husband is Orthodox.
So because he "owns" her, his religion has jurisdiction over any "fruits" forthcoming from this miracle??
I suppose in reality, the various chief godmen involved will get together and cut a deal to split the proceeds.

Gregor Samsa

the_eman wrote: »

What? video evidence is not enough? There is also a rigorous Catholic approval process that very few such occurrences actually get approved. This one has been approved and documented. I'm sure you probably don't put much weight behind the Catholic Church's approval process and like you say there are many scams but this one i trust you is not one and one I advise you to give some time. Many people have seen these Miracles first hand.

I would like to ask you to take a look at this video. Its less than seven minutes long but I think you should know what has happened in New Delhi and throughout the world.

It's video evidence of a Hindu statue miraculously drinking milk. This phenomenon, which was replicated globally in 1995, defied explanation by many and stood up to the rigorous Hindu investigation process. It was documented by media organisations throughout the world. It began when an man in New Delhi had a dream that Lord Ganesha was thirsty for milk. He ran to his local Temple, and despite skepticism from the priest, fed milk to the statue. When word spread about this event, many people witnessed the miracle first hand at temples and statues throughout the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzhfPSxkdb4

I trust this is enough to convince you of the existence of Lord Ganesha and the veracity of the Hindu Vedas.

the_eman

No you are incorrect, Read some of the Scientific analysis done over 50 bears by Dr. Frederick Zugibe. Who is convinced the nails were through the palm.

http://www.amazon.com/Crucifixion-Jesus-Completely-Revised-Expanded/dp/1590770706

http://www.spirit-digest.com/Prayers/zugibe.htm

fitz0

the_eman wrote: »

No you are incorrect, Read some of the Scientific analysis done over 50 bears by Dr. Frederick Zugibe. Who is convinced the nails were through the palm.

http://www.amazon.com/Crucifixion-Jesus-Completely-Revised-Expanded/dp/1590770706

http://www.spirit-digest.com/Prayers/zugibe.htm

St Francis of Assisi's stigmata had wounds through his wrists. Padre Pio had them in his palms. They are the two most famous and widely accepted stigmata, but are at odds with each other. Which one was real?

MagicMarker

phutyle wrote: »

I would like to ask you to take a look at this video. Its less than seven minutes long but I think you should know what has happened in New Delhi and throughout the world.

It's video evidence of a Hindu statue miraculously drinking milk. This phenomenon, which was replicated globally in 1995, defied explanation by many and stood up to the rigorous Hindu investigation process. It was documented by media organisations throughout the world. It began when an man in New Delhi had a dream that Lord Ganesha was thirsty for milk. He ran to his local Temple, and despite skepticism from the priest, fed milk to the statue. When word spread about this event, many people witnessed the miracle first hand at temples and statues throughout the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzhfPSxkdb4

I trust this is enough to convince you of the existence of Lord Ganesha and the veracity of the Hindu Vedas.

I would like you to take a look at this video...

I trust this is enough to convince you that people can levitate?

King Mob

the_eman wrote: »

No you are incorrect, Read some of the Scientific analysis done over 50 bears by Dr. Frederick Zugibe. Who is convinced the nails were through the palm.

http://www.amazon.com/Crucifixion-Jesus-Completely-Revised-Expanded/dp/1590770706

http://www.spirit-digest.com/Prayers/zugibe.htm

Lol this is the guy that was on Penn and Teller: bull**** who proved you could crucify someone through the palms.... if they also wore heavy reinforced gloves.

kylith

phutyle wrote: »

I would like to ask you to take a look at this video. Its less than seven minutes long but I think you should know what has happened in New Delhi and throughout the world.

It's video evidence of a Hindu statue miraculously drinking milk. This phenomenon, which was replicated globally in 1995, defied explanation by many and stood up to the rigorous Hindu investigation process. It was documented by media organisations throughout the world. It began when an man in New Delhi had a dream that Lord Ganesha was thirsty for milk. He ran to his local Temple, and despite skepticism from the priest, fed milk to the statue. When word spread about this event, many people witnessed the miracle first hand at temples and statues throughout the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzhfPSxkdb4

I trust this is enough to convince you of the existence of Lord Ganesha and the veracity of the Hindu Vedas.

Pottery is porous, and porous materials are well known to be absorbent. This is what is happening with these statues; the porous material is soaking up the milk, give the impression that it is being drunk.

This absorbency is obvious to anyone who has plants in terracotta pots; the soil in them dries up a lot faster than plastic ones.

the_eman

18AD wrote: »

Not to stir (which I enjoy), but what is the relevance of this even if it is true?

What is the significance of a miracle?

For the Church the significance is unity between the Latin Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. The miracles (Ecstasies, stigmata's and apparitions) all occurred on dates that both Churches share in their respective religious calendar. The messages imparted to Myrna mainly related to the unification of both Churches. Now I don't think that has a huge significance for Atheists. But I wanted to share this concrete evidence of the workings of Christ with people whom I believe need to see evidence before they believe.

But I also wanted feedback and I thank you for your replies, I do not discount your thoughts, I know there are many wise logical thinkers in among you.

-e

MagicMarker

You haven't shown us any concrete evidence, just like I haven't shown any concrete evidence for levitation.

King Mob

the_eman wrote: »

For the Church the significance is unity between the Latin Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. The miracles (Ecstasies, stigmata's and apparitions) all occurred on dates that both Churches share in their respective religious calendar. The messages imparted to Myrna mainly related to the unification of both Churches. Now I don't think that has a huge significance for Atheists. But I wanted to share this concrete evidence of the workings of Christ with people whom I believe need to see evidence before they believe.

But I also wanted feedback and I thank you for your replies, I do not discount your thoughts, I know there are many wise logical thinkers in among you.

-Enda

So you don't find it odd or illogical that instead of helping the people who really need it, Jesus instead uses his magic powers to cut a woman and making her leak olive oil?

Couldn't he just help people? Or appear now and then?

Sarky

Mysterious ways!
<eldritch pose>
WOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo!

Dyr

There is also a rigorous Catholic approval process that very few such occurrences actually get approved

Well if its good enough for those witch doctors then it just has to be legit

the_eman

King Mob wrote: »

So you don't find it odd or illogical that instead of helping the people who really need it, Jesus instead uses his magic powers to cut a woman and making her leak olive oil?

Couldn't he just help people? Or appear now and then?

Many people have testified to being cured of sickness and disabilities while in the presence of these miracles while they occurred and from using the oil. This is all in the documentary. There have been whole processions of people through Damascus, completely made up of people who have been cured many who have been disabled for life. So I do not agree, Jesus has helped many through these miracles. Not to mention the support this these miracles have given to many believers.

King Mob

the_eman wrote: »

Many people have testified to being cured of sickness and disabilities while in the presence of these miracles while they occurred and from using the oil. This is all in the documentary. There have been whole processions of people through Damascus, completely made up of people who have been cured many who have been disabled for life. So I do not agree, Jesus has helped many through these miracles. Not to mention the support this these miracles have given to many believers.

So he needed to do all of that through the torture and suffering of a woman because....?

Never mind the fact that you've yet to show any evidence that a single person was magically cured.

shizz

In any case, why would someone going through "stigmata" be considered a miracle? Sounds to me like Jesus being a bit pricky.

"Buuuut Daaaaad (who is also me)! It's not fair that I had to go through it, shouldn't other people too?"

the_eman

MagicMarker wrote: »

You haven't shown us any concrete evidence, just like I haven't shown any concrete evidence for levitation.

I don't need concrete evidence for levitation. I totally believe David Blalne is legit. Levitation has occurred in documented exorcisms. I don't discount the power that can be given through demonic ritual, do you think satanic rituals are just a fun game of medieval re-enactment or a new from of DnD for disgruntled ex-believers. Ok, i'm not claiming D Blaine is a satanist i'm making a comparison. But please let me not take you too far off topic. I think if you watch the documentary and read around it a bit there should be plenty of food for thought.

MagicMarker

And on that note...

the_eman

fitz0 wrote: »

St Francis of Assisi's stigmata had wounds through his wrists. Padre Pio had them in his palms. They are the two most famous and widely accepted stigmata, but are at odds with each other. Which one was real?

This is incorrect, St Francis of Assisi has stigmata on his hand as did Padre Pio as you do say.

If your interested in Miracles examine the life of Padre Pio in more detail. This was quite recent.

kylith

the_eman wrote: »

I don't need concrete evidence for levitation. I totally believe David Blalne is legit. Levitation has occurred in documented exorcisms. I don't discount the power that can be given through demonic ritual, do you think satanic rituals are just a fun game of medieval re-enactment or a new from of DnD for disgruntled ex-believers. Ok, i'm not claiming D Blaine is a satanist i'm making a comparison. But please let me not take you too far off topic. I think if you watch the documentary and read around it a bit there should be plenty of food for thought.

So, if you believe that David Blane is legit what about this video explaining how it's done?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-AQSR2gUKc

If David Blane, who you thought was legit, is using trickery and camera fakery to make it look like he's levitating when he isn't, isn't it possible that Myrna Nazzour is using trickery to make it look like she has stigmata when she doesn't?

King Mob

the_eman wrote: »

I don't need concrete evidence for levitation. I totally believe David Blalne is legit. Levitation has occurred in documented exorcisms. I don't discount the power that can be given through demonic ritual, do you think satanic rituals are just a fun game of medieval re-enactment or a new from of DnD for disgruntled ex-believers. Ok, i'm not claiming D Blaine is a satanist i'm making a comparison. But please let me not take you too far off topic. I think if you watch the documentary and read around it a bit there should be plenty of food for thought.

Behold the demonic powers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyUTmisnm8

If you think that David Blaine is using real magic powers you are either a troll or just that stupid. Either way there's little point taking you or the "miracle" seriously.

the_eman

kylith wrote: »

So, if you believe that David Blane is legit what about this video explaining how it's done?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-AQSR2gUKc

If David Blane, who you thought was legit, is using trickery and camera fakery to make it look like he's levitating when he isn't, isn't it possible that Myrna Nazzour is using trickery to make it look like she has stigmata when she doesn't?

The camera angle is different on David Blaine than on the very amateur video of the guy trying to show how its done. it's a very weak counter argument. Overall I think David Blaines trickery is a distraction from the topic we are discussing. Has anyone visited David Blaines house who had been in a wheelchair all their lives and left walking.

Myrna Nazzour has had doctors examine her on all occasions. No trickery found.
The icon that exudes sanctifying oil was once places in a seal glass jar, and it still produced the oil.
The oil from the Icon and from Myrna has been tested and is pure olive oil.
Olive oil has always been used for anointing in the Judeo-Christian tradition.
Its all in the documentary.