'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

lookitsme

No

i thought it was humorous looking through the list of doping cases in cycling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling
to read about our own sean kelly, firstly i was surprised he cheated but how he got caught has to be a bit of murphys law

• Sean Kelly of Ireland was described in Willy Voet's book 'Massacre à la Chaine': He won the Tour of Lombardy three times (1983, 1985, 1991 (also won amateur version in 1976)) and on at least one occasion he did it with the help of a corticoide injection. Kelly was controlled positive after Paris–Brussels in 1984 and that came as a surprise because he used the urine of a mechanic. But the mechanic was using a banned substance himself because he had to work long hours at night and needed the lift to stay awake."[107]

we can have a chat with him on sunday about it

marienbad

No

Another one bites the dust ! Delighted.

doccy

No

Really... it's a very sad tale in it's own way.

DrZeuss

No

It's a good day for cycling future but a bad day for cycling past!

GT_TDI_150

No

Lisbon has told armstrong he is still welcome at their triathlon (according to "het nieuwsblad") ... THAT is whats sad about all this, he's such a big draw for sponsors(btw nike confirm they are continuing his sponsorship) that his doping continues to be ignored

Capt'n Midnight

No

Dusts this one down

Lance Armstrong was asked if he had taken drugs to help him win.

"Complete bollocks!" he answered.

Seems he can't tell the truth about anything.


In the listing of those who have been caught , have those who were using substances that were later banned been included ?

Didn't Miguel Indurain escape a ban because one of the two organisations wasn't going to ban the substance until three days later ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

Icyseanfitz

No

the man will always be known as a cheater

WumBuster

Dont follow cycling much, just a general sports fan but I must say I found it pretty disturbing when i heard this today. Armstrong is one of the biggest sports stars in the world, if not of all time and for him to be exposed in this manner as a blatant fraud and cheat is hard to take in. What a let down he is to so many people and the least he should do is man up, own up, tell the truth and apologise to all his fans and followers, either through sport or his cancer organisation. But seeing his pathetic, arrogant statement, I dont think he has those capabilities as he's just a pathological liar and bull****ter. Its sad that any sport has to come to this.

Capt'n Midnight

No

I've finally accomplished my dream of winning the Tour De France as many times as Lance Armstrong.


:pac:

High Nellie

It sounds like Paul Kimmage has the UCI in his sights next for effective collusion. Our Pat can expect A Rough Ride I'd say.

doccy

No

[QUOTE=

Didn't Miguel Indurain escape a ban because one of the two organisations wasn't going to ban the substance until three days later ?
[/QUOTE]

Pedro Delgado tested positive for probenecid, a medicine for the kidney but also a masking agent for anabolic steroids. It wasn't on UCI banned list so he kept his Tour win.

Miguel was a nice guy by all accounts, not a brash Texan, even though his record was comparable to Armstrongs. He was a bit of a freak of nature, but it can't be ignored he was multiple champion in the EPO age. If you look at all the TdF winners since Lemond how many were clean. Maybe Evans and Wiggins .. winners of the slowest Tours in years (I think).

ozzy jr

No

doccy wrote: »

If you look at all the TdF winners since Lemond how many were clean. Maybe Evans and Wiggins .. winners of the slowest Tours in years (I think).

Since LeMond's 86 win or his 90 win?

C3PO

Has anyone established definitively whether USADA actually has the right to ban Armstrong and remove his titles? UCI don't appear to think so! This one might have a while to run yet!

Polygon_window

lads arguably the vast majority are on the stuff, get over it, his achievements were huge, he should not be stripped!

hardCopy

No

Polygon_window wrote: »

lads arguably the vast majority are on the stuff, get over it, his achievements were huge, he should not be stripped!

Lots of good riders didn't dope and quit the sport because of it.

He made a choice to dope and couldn't have done what he did without it.

There's no reason to think that he would have been the best if they had all been clean, he had the best help money could buy.

kumate_champ07

I hope more evidence makes it to the media because I cant stand all the Lance fans who still support him 100% and believe he never doped

Monty Burnz

No

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

I hope more evidence makes it to the media because I cant stand all the Lance fans who still support him 100% and believe he never doped

And then you have the morons who say 'yeah he doped, but the other top guys did to so it was all fair'.

niceonetom

No

If there's one thing I'll remember the about the day that Lance finally quit fighting (if not yet quit lying) it was the AVALANCHE of stupid that got vomited onto the internets.

I've never seen so much stupid. It was everywhere. Inescapable. It seems like every comment section on every blog and journal and paper and twitter has been blitzkrieged by crack stormtroopers of idiocy, people so assuredly certain and yet so ill-informed that only their sheer number and the variety of stupid that they've created assures us that they cannot all be trolls. No, there really are that many morons and they really are all that keen to have their worthless say and none of them, even by accident, seem capable of making a coherent point in any direction either for or agin the monorchid.

Just to be clear, for the most part I'm not including this thread (I've only skimmed it), but just commenting on my general internet experience since yesterday morning.

frostie500

No

Sadest thing about this whole thing coming to light is a tweet from Armstrong last night:
"Thanks to all the amazing @livestrong supporters worldwide. Donations today were UP 25x over yesterdays. Thank you thank you thank you! "

The day that the man was exposed as a drugs cheat and donations to livestrong are that much bigger. It just goes to show that while many fans of the sport cant stand him that so many LA fans don't care that he doped/cheated.
If I had bought a yellow band or donated to Livestrong and this came out i think I would be looking for LA to refund me personally given that I had given the money under the false pretence of him being a cancer survivor/TdF champion.

Bozacke

I don't understand how they can strip him of all his medals, prize money and even his Olympic medal where the only legitimate evidence seems to be hearsay. Even Michelle Smith got to keep her medals.Two years after winning 3 Gold Medals at the 1996 Summer Olympics, FINA banned Michelle Smith for four years for tampering with her urine sample. Smith was not stripped of her Olympic medals, as only samples subsequent to her Olympic involvement tested positive. I'm not saying Armstrong didn't dope, but how can they strip him of his Olympic medal and Smith gets to keep hers?

Chips Lovell

No

It's not hearsay though. There are 10 ex-teammates who've testified that they saw him taking drugs and him giving drugs to others. USADA's case also involves samples he provided in 2009 and 2010, which it says were consitant with blood doping.

From this it appears that USADA is happy it has evidence that he doped in every year since 1998.

In the case of Smith, there was only evidence relating to one year.

Monty Burnz

No

Bozacke wrote: »

I don't understand how they can strip him of all his medals, prize money and even his Olympic medal where the only legitimate evidence seems to be hearsay.

Oh Jesus. First-hand eyewitness accounts? Hearsay? FFS. Actual failed drugs tests - hearsay? Mountains of other compelling evidence - hearsay?

frostie500

No

For one thing it is not hearsay, it is sworn testimony from witnesses under oath in a federal investigation. The USADA was handed over the documents by the FBI after the federal case was rejected.

It has become common place to say that the witnesses are only testifying because the USADA offered them deals of leniant bans from the sport-2 years instead of a life ban lets say etc.-but the majority of the testimonies were originally made in the federal case when the riders were told "tell us the truth or go to jail"....for some reason im inclined to think that the riders told the truth in those circumstances

Inquitus

No

http://store.theonion.com/

Get your cheat to win yellow bracelets!

kumate_champ07

niceonetom wrote: »

If there's one thing I'll remember the about the day that Lance finally quit fighting (if not yet quit lying) it was the AVALANCHE of stupid that got vomited onto the internets.

I've never seen so much stupid. It was everywhere. Inescapable. It seems like every comment section on every blog and journal and paper and twitter has been blitzkrieged by crack stormtroopers of idiocy, people so assuredly certain and yet so ill-informed that only their sheer number and the variety of stupid that they've created assures us that they cannot all be trolls. No, there really are that many morons and they really are all that keen to have their worthless say and none of them, even by accident, seem capable of making a coherent point in any direction either for or agin the monorchid.

Just to be clear, for the most part I'm not including this thread (I've only skimmed it), but just commenting on my general internet experience since yesterday morning.

every media/news person during interviews keeps saying 'but he never failed a test', it's like with Graham Obree they always mention he made his famous 1hour record bike with actual washing machine parts when in fact he got the idea from washing machines to use larger size bearings, he didnt build his bike from a washing machine!!

ROK ON

No

One aspect of this case thy I find fascinating is the role of corporate sponsors.
Nike are standing by a cheat (as are Trek). Nike cut loose Tiger Woods for cheating on his wife. Lance has cheated on the sport and they stick by him.
I would have thought that the latter cheat is more damaging to the business of a sports goods company than the former but I guess not.

As an aside, Specialized were purported to be paying Contador €1m as part of his Saxo contract even while he was banned.

Unless corporates take similar action to that of Deutsche Telekom then it will be hard to eradicate cheating.

The piper calls the tune.

hardCopy

No

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Bozacke wrote: »

I don't understand how they can strip him of all his medals, prize money and even his Olympic medal where the only legitimate evidence seems to be hearsay.

Oh Jesus. First-hand eyewitness accounts? Hearsay? FFS. Actual failed drugs tests - hearsay? Mountains of other compelling evidence - hearsay?

Hear'say must be the most over used word of the week, it's astounding how few know what it means.

If I see somebody murder my neighbor and testify against them, along with 9 other neighbors, that's not hear'say.

mark kiernan

ahh hardcopy the muderer is a nice guy does great things in the area raises lots of money for charity hes a sound fella dont hold this one tiny thing against him lol!! the sean quinn story springs too mind all .those people out on the streets of cavan supporting him cause he was great for the community does it matter that were all paying for hit

hardCopy

No

mark kiernan wrote: »

ahh hardcopy the muderer is a nice guy does great things in the area raises lots of money for charity hes a sound fella dont hold this one tiny thing against him lol!! the sean quinn story springs too mind all .those people out on the streets of cavan supporting him cause he was great for the community does it matter that were all paying for hit

I think I might be one of those typical Irish begrudgers, is Tygart from USADA Irish?

jhegarty

frostie500 wrote: »

For one thing it is not hearsay, it is sworn testimony from witnesses under oath in a federal investigation. The USADA was handed over the documents by the FBI after the federal case was rejected.

It has become common place to say that the witnesses are only testifying because the USADA offered them deals of leniant bans from the sport-2 years instead of a life ban lets say etc.-but the majority of the testimonies were originally made in the federal case when the riders were told "tell us the truth or go to jail"....for some reason im inclined to think that the riders told the truth in those circumstances

It's not tell us the truth or go to jail. It's tell us what we want to hear or go to jail.